[Grades] Grades v. Lakers 12/6/2013

[jalfa]

random stuff:

- matching Chuck up with Jordan Hill really was throwing rock against paper. can't think of a matchup where Chuck's strengths are more wasted and his weaknesses are more on display.
- I don't usually condone trying to match up to your opponent, but it would have made a lot of sense to have Chuck in there when Pau was in -I may be misremembering this, but it felt like Pau had his way with JT, whereas he couldn't do anything against Chuck, the, like, two possessions he played him- and have JT battle Hill on the boards.
- during that time when Hill was grabbing any o-board he wanted, it might also have been a good idea to get Williams in for rebounding help. would a Williams/PPat/Hayes lineup work? could the minutes for it be found without screwing up rotations? is it worth it?
- speaking of Williams, while he played a good game, it becomes increasingly obvious that he just really can't do much offensively outside of cuts and transition stuff. any team that puts its' mind to it, will be able to stop that. he desperately needs a shot.
- there was a TON of bad Cuz in this game, especially late. not getting back on d, screwing up rotations, picking up dumb fouls in the third. had really hoped these kinds of things were in the past.
- not playing IT at the end was a mistake, even though he didn't do much in the third. when Cuz is this clearly gassed/taken out of the game, there is nobody in that lineup capable of creating his own offense and the Lakers took full advantage of it.
- nearly all of our guards/wings getting lost in their matchups trying (and mostly failing) to provide help in the paint is getting old. the Kings are the second-worst team in the league at defending the three and, as opposed to the Nets who are the worst, it's not a case of old and slow players causing rotation problems (although their defensive schemes are crap, too), but quick, athletic players that get lost. seems really unnecessary.

 

[Mr. S£im Citrus]

- I don't usually condone trying to match up to your opponent, but it would have made a lot of sense to have Chuck in there when Pau was in -I may be misremembering this, but it felt like Pau had his way with JT...

That kinda depends: if you stopped watching after halftime, then you're not misremembering. If you watched the third quarter, not so much. Thompson played strong defense against Gasol in the third, after not impressing in the first half. Unfortunately, like Thomas, he was inexplicably on the bench down the stretch, while Patterson continued to play his particular brand of soft "post" play.

 

[jalfa]

That kinda depends: if you stopped watching after halftime, then you're not misremembering. If you watched the third quarter, not so much. Thompson played strong defense against Gasol in the third, after not impressing in the first half. Unfortunately, like Thomas, he was inexplicably on the bench down the stretch, while Patterson continued to play his particular brand of soft "post" play.

I'll change my argument to "just play Thompson more!" then (had that as answer for the poll question anyway).

 

[Siranthony]

This loss was puzzling. I thought the Kings looked like the better team the entire game.

IT was stupendous. I think they keep IT in too long sometimes. He starts to look tired.

We really need another shooter. They said Patterson was 1 of 9 at one point. Thornton did not help us either.

We still should have won by 5 or 10 points. The melt down at the end was inexplicable. Either the Lakers became super motivated by "beat LA" or the Kings where intimdated by it.

This stuff is getting old but after thinking about it, we can't afford to lose our first round pick this year. The Maloofs really screwed this team. The Hickson deal is an albatross around our neck. The guy is playing elsewhere and we got nothing for it.

 

[dude12]

Instead of putting some blame on Malone, I'll put it on the players who didn't play well...PPat, Thornton although he wasn't terrible, IT was not good in the 2nd half....in fact was pee poor especially defensively and that is where I think he got the hook. Cuz was bad down the stretch. I didn't mind GV in there in the 4th as I thought he was excellent in the 3rd Q.

In losses like this, I find comfort by watching some of the potential prospects in the draft.

 

[Chubbs]

I thought Ben handled the ball as well as he has all season. Late turnover, sure. But 2 tos in 31 mins is about the best you can hope for.

IT continues to shutdown completely on both ends when his shot isn't falling. I don't get it. Defense should be constant. This was the tale of two ITs.

Vazquez was getting it going early 3rd, passing was contagious, then was kept out way too long and was awful. Then malone sticks with a useless IT, ppat and MT way too long in the 4th. That sealed the deal.

If we are indeed stuck in showcase mode, we will continue to spiral into the abyss. Our high paid vets are borderline useles

 

[Chupacabra]

We killed them on the boards overall but Jordan hill had 9 rebounds in 14 minutes, 4 of which were offensive. Hill was matched up with Hayes in the 4th quarter when we were getting stops but not the defensive rebound. Williams has been doing a great job on rebounding. If we're going to be stupid and continue to give Hayes minutes we probably need to have either Williams or Outlaw on the floor for extra rebounding. I voted for Williams.

 

[pshn80]

To hell with Thornton, Salmons, Outlaw's minutes anyways in the face of developing Ben and DWill. These are players (Thornton, Salmons, Outlaw) that most likely won't be here past next year. They might be trying to preserve what semblance of trade value they have or are worried about their attitudes in the lockerroom if they are not getting ample time. I think I read a comment in the game thread that someone wondered if Malone was actively sabotaging the game for the tank which might be going a bit far

Salmons had a good game and was not a part of the reason we lost. Possibly, in hindsight, we should have finished the game with Hayes in there.?.

 

[Entity]

Big problem right now is Thornton and Patterson. You got to get more than 4 pts from them in a combined 38 min.
Patterson has been in season long slump and Thornton has always been streaky but the missing streaks are far more often than the making streaks

 

[ppine]

This game is a good illustration of why the Kings are not "Cousins and a bunch of scrubs" which some people believe.
I have not seen a box score yet, but Cousins was something like 6-17. He had his shots blocked several times, he turned the ball over. He got stuck in double teams. The Lakers did a good job on him and he had trouble passing at times.

Anyone that cannot see the value of IT to this team, is blind. The Lakers' did a good job of stopping his drives at the end. He will get better at dishing off the drive. It is fun to see him take Gasol to the cup and score easily.
Ben Mac continues to get better.
Williams is going to be good.

The problem last night was the fourth quarter, and most of the reasons were mental. 13 points for the quarter?
The Kings' had a party in the paint for the first three quarters. Very encouraging.

The Boogey Man is getting larger and needs to be killed. The only way to do that is with a string of victories. Maybe they can prey on the Eastern Conference.

 

[Bricklayer]

This game is a good illustration of why the Kings are not "Cousins and a bunch of scrubs" which some people believe.
I have not seen a box score yet, but Cousins was something like 6-17. He had his shots blocked several times, he turned the ball over. He got stuck in double teams. The Lakers did a good job on him and he had trouble passing at times.

Anyone that cannot see the value of IT to this team, is blind. The Lakers' did a good job of stopping his drives at the end. He will get better at dishing off the drive. It is fun to see him take Gasol to the cup and score easily.
Ben Mac continues to get better.
Williams is going to be good.

The problem last night was the fourth quarter, and most of the reasons were mental. 13 points for the quarter?
The Kings' had a party in the paint for the first three quarters. Very encouraging.

The Boogey Man is getting larger and needs to be killed. The only way to do that is with a string of victories. Maybe they can prey on the Eastern Conference.

Alternately its a perfect example of why its Boogie and a bunch of scrubs. We needed him to carry us home, when he was unable to do it this time, there was nobody else to step up.

 

[jalfa]

Salmons had a good game and was not a part of the reason we lost. Possibly, in hindsight, we should have finished the game with Hayes in there.?.

not sure, but: is that last part sarcasm? Hayes inability to contribute anything positively in the second half, while getting completely worked over by Jordan Hill was a big reason why the Kings lost this game. are you maybe confusing him with Thompson?

 

[Siranthony]

I have to agree that Salmons is not the problem on this team. He is overpaid for sure, but he contributes. He hits jumpers at times and plays defence. There are bigger problems on this team.

 

[Kingster]

Well frankly the can't block is a REASON for some of his fouls -- I..e great shotblockers get the block not the foul, but we are relying on hi to try to stop guys anyway without that ability -- in other words the we need a rim defender so Cousins doesn't have to try to do that stuff again.

But in this particular game, no the key fouls in the third were just of the dumb variety. He got mad at being hacked on one end, so semi-intentionally hacked Sacre on the other, with a little floppy help of course. And then on a play which everyone but Boogie saw coming, with 3 fouls he decides to take the ball full court rather than dumping it to a guard, and got a charge call. Boom 4 fouls, out of the game.

The 6 fouls is a bit deceptive though. #5 and #6 were in the final minute due to intentional foul time.

Yep. I saw the same thing.

 

[Kingster]

Unless this team plays "the right way" they will continue to lose. They aren't talented enough to play so-so on the defensive end, much less to throw up turnovers and to not run their sets correctly, or to get dumb fouls. As Malone said after the game, this team isn't disciplined. So until they finally find it within themselves to be disciplined, they will continue to lose on a fairly regular basis. I think Malone was fairly ticked off after the game because he sees his team play good practices, but then they don't show it in the game. He wants them to be rewarded for their hard work, and he sees their confidence eroding, but he's extremely frustrated they are their own worst enemies. So am I.

 

[Chubbs]

This game is a good illustration of why the Kings are not "Cousins and a bunch of scrubs" which some people believe.
I have not seen a box score yet, but Cousins was something like 6-17. He had his shots blocked several times, he turned the ball over. He got stuck in double teams. The Lakers did a good job on him and he had trouble passing at times.

Anyone that cannot see the value of IT to this team, is blind. The Lakers' did a good job of stopping his drives at the end. He will get better at dishing off the drive. It is fun to see him take Gasol to the cup and score easily.
Ben Mac continues to get better.
Williams is going to be good.

The problem last night was the fourth quarter, and most of the reasons were mental. 13 points for the quarter?
The Kings' had a party in the paint for the first three quarters. Very encouraging.

The Boogey Man is getting larger and needs to be killed. The only way to do that is with a string of victories. Maybe they can prey on the Eastern Conference.

You seem to be watching a diff game than everyone else. To piggyback on brick, cousins struggles BECAUSE everyone else is so terrible and inconsistent, and in the case of ppat, mt and Hayes pretty much a huge net negative. At least salmons seems to blend in ok. Ppat + MT 4 points combined? 38 mins. That's amazing.

No one is missing that IT has value. It's just not enough, not with the scrubs around him and cousins.

We've seen this night after night, when other teams up the intensity, we collapse. I have zero confidence late in games. There just aren't moral victories in close losses.

When it's boogie and nothing else it's really tough. And that's what happens late.

 

[Chubbs]

Unless this team plays "the right way" they will continue to lose. They aren't talented enough to play so-so on the defensive end, much less to throw up turnovers and to not run their sets correctly, or to get dumb fouls. As Malone said after the game, this team isn't disciplined. So until they finally find it within themselves to be disciplined, they will continue to lose on a fairly regular basis. I think Malone was fairly ticked off after the game because he sees his team play good practices, but then they don't show it in the game. He wants them to be rewarded for their hard work, and he sees their confidence eroding, but he's extremely frustrated they are their own worst enemies. So am I.

I thought malone was on board with tanking. Then I sawhis post game interview and he was pissed. Eyes red like he'd been yelling. Losing ain't fun, even with low expectations. This has been really bad. Winning or losing isn't even the point. Clearly execution is awful and lessons aren't sinking in at the pace malone was expecting We have played over 1/4 of our home games. Most of us thought if we didn't have a quick start, it'd get bad quick. And away we go!

I actually thought we would be only a couple under .500 at this juncture. Not so much. And it's snowballing. I thought 28-32 wins. It's looking like low 20s at best.

 

[bajaden]

#Derrick Williams I have no doubt in my mind is a SF
#Cousins needed to realise what was working for him that game which was facing up and driving
#Ben Mac other than the massive turnover was great
#Thornton actually made some very nice plays
#JT and Patterson both let us down......yet again
#Thomas like Cousins only played well in the first half
#Vasquez" I've had enough of watching Vasquez get trashed bring the rookie in let him play

It's kind of depressing watching teams with far less talent than us like Boston, Suns and a few others having far more successful seasons while we are close in games but just can't escape idiotic basketball long enough to pull through, it's just awful plays at the wrong time every single game it seems. We got to starting winning against teams like the Lakers regardless if we are trying to hit the lottery.

I'm

#Derrick Williams I have no doubt in my mind is a SF
#Cousins needed to realise what was working for him that game which was facing up and driving
#Ben Mac other than the massive turnover was great
#Thornton actually made some very nice plays
#JT and Patterson both let us down......yet again
#Thomas like Cousins only played well in the first half
#Vasquez" I've had enough of watching Vasquez get trashed bring the rookie in let him play

It's kind of depressing watching teams with far less talent than us like Boston, Suns and a few others having far more successful seasons while we are close in games but just can't escape idiotic basketball long enough to pull through, it's just awful plays at the wrong time every single game it seems. We got to starting winning against teams like the Lakers regardless if we are trying to hit the lottery.

I'm just curious how you give some props to Thornton, but say that JT let us down. I agree that Patterson had a terrible game, but JT did a good job of guarding Gasol while he was in there, his 5 of 6 shots from the floor, and grabbed 5 boards in around 22 minutes. Just exactly what did he do that was wrong? Thornton on the other hand, was almost invisible except for a steal and a couple of nice passes. He scored a total of 2 pts. Everything else I agree with.

 

[bajaden]

Sort of. He was out at the 5 minute mark of the 3rd quarter which is 2-3 minutes earlier than normal, but he came back in at the 9:30 mark of the 4th which is 2-3 minutes earlier than normal, so it balanced out. Here is when he came and went in the game
1st Quarter: Out at 2:00 minute mark
2nd Quarter: In at 6:30 minute mark
3rd Quarter: Out at the 5 minute mark
4th Quarter: In at the 9:30 mark

So you can see that though he did leave 3 minutes earlier in the 3rd, he also came back in 3 minutes earlier in the 4th and so ended up with 32 minutes which what you see during games when he doesn't have major foul issues.

Anyway, I don't think the fouls had any issues with his putrid 4th quarter performance. He was aggressive for the most part, but just didn't see capable of performing like he did in the 1st half, and I have to assume the ankle was the cause. If that's the case, I don't expect a superior showing from him in tomorrow's game. We'll see.

Actually Cousins didn't play that badly in the 4th quarter until the last three minutes. He made a couple of bad decisions, and along with a few bad plays by some of his teammates, it cost us the game. Don't know if the ankle was the problem or not. He didn't seem to be running the floor as well as did in previous games, so maybe it was bothering him.

 

[bajaden]

I thought malone was on board with tanking. Then I sawhis post game interview and he was pissed. Eyes red like he'd been yelling. Losing ain't fun, even with low expectations. This has been really bad. Winning or losing isn't even the point. Clearly execution is awful and lessons aren't sinking in at the pace malone was expecting We have played over 1/4 of our home games. Most of us thought if we didn't have a quick start, it'd get bad quick. And away we go!

I actually thought we would be only a couple under .500 at this juncture. Not so much. And it's snowballing. I thought 28-32 wins. It's looking like low 20s at best.

Up to this point, almost all of our games have been against teams that are potentially headed to the playoffs. While most have been at home, its also been one of the toughest early schedules in the NBA. The key will be when we start playing some of the bad eastern conference teams. If we continue losing, then its going to be a long season.

 

[bajaden]

We killed them on the boards overall but Jordan hill had 9 rebounds in 14 minutes, 4 of which were offensive. Hill was matched up with Hayes in the 4th quarter when we were getting stops but not the defensive rebound. Williams has been doing a great job on rebounding. If we're going to be stupid and continue to give Hayes minutes we probably need to have either Williams or Outlaw on the floor for extra rebounding. I voted for Williams.

There was a point where I thought Malone was trying to intentionally lose the game. We were getting killed by Hill on the boards and we had Williams, Cousins, and JT all sitting on the bench. I thought at the time, why not put at least one of them back in. McLemore was getting on a roll when he went out in the third, but there was Thornton doing absolutely nothing while McLemore sat on the bench. I mean the kid is 19 years old. 19 year old's don't get tired.

 

[pshn80]

not sure, but: is that last part sarcasm? Hayes inability to contribute anything positively in the second half, while getting completely worked over by Jordan Hill was a big reason why the Kings lost this game. are you maybe confusing him with Thompson?

One of the other reasons was Cousins at the end.

 

[Glenn]

There was a point where I thought Malone was trying to intentionally lose the game. We were getting killed by Hill on the boards and we had Williams, Cousins, and JT all sitting on the bench. I thought at the time, why not put at least one of them back in. McLemore was getting on a roll when he went out in the third, but there was Thornton doing absolutely nothing while McLemore sat on the bench. I mean the kid is 19 years old. 19 year old's don't get tired.

I thought he was trying to lose also. I doubt that losing as a goal is in his DNA. Last night left me a bit confused though.

 

[dude12]

I just can't wait until we can hopefully move MT and/or Salmons, Hayes and now PPat. Just tired of watching these re-runs. Really disappointed in how PPat has played. I'd like to see us somehow someway get younger and more athletic sooner rather than later and turn the roster over. I like GV and IT but I think that GV needs more minutes to play better and better players around him to cover his defense....not opposed to seeing him moved. I'd like to see Ray get time at some point. Heck, I'm looking forward to Landry.....others don't like him but he can score on a consistent basis unlike the PPat 1-8 shooting games.
Get some young guys in, land one of Marcus Smart, Randle or Parker.....those 3 guys look like they could step into the NBA and excel from day 1.

 

[Chubbs]

There was a point where I thought Malone was trying to intentionally lose the game. We were getting killed by Hill on the boards and we had Williams, Cousins, and JT all sitting on the bench. I thought at the time, why not put at least one of them back in. McLemore was getting on a roll when he went out in the third, but there was Thornton doing absolutely nothing while McLemore sat on the bench. I mean the kid is 19 years old. 19 year old's don't get tired.

I thought he was trying to lose as well during the game. I think it was a rookie coach making rookie mistakes. We were in night 1 of a back to back and maybe he thought he had to limit the starters minutes? That's a poor rationalization, but Malone seemed unhappy post game. Seething might be the right word. Mclemore should have played 40 mins. Why the heck not? Do gms really need to see MT play at this point? They know what he can and can't do. Mclemore never looks tired to me.

I hear ya about the east, but, it's kinda hard to see this team rattling off 5 wins in a row on the road against anyone, know what I mean? Teams that lose at home almost never are better on the road. No matter how bad the east may be.

Tonight should be an easy win, right? Does anyone actually believe that at this point?

 

[Chubbs]

One of the other reasons was Cousins at the end.

Yeah, that cousins guy plays way too many minutes.

I feel like there is an alternate reality that I'm unaware of based on some people's takeaways from last nights game.

If Hayes is ever in for cousins late in a game for reasons other than fouls or something, Malone should be fired on the spot. I think he'd agree with that. Hayes at his peak is worse than cousins at his absolute worst.

 

[Glenn]

I hear ya about the east, but, it's kinda hard to see this team rattling off 5 wins in a row on the road against anyone, know what I mean? Teams that lose at home almost never are better on the road. No matter how bad the east may be.

Tonight should be an easy win, right? Does anyone actually believe that at this point?

NO! But perhaps that was a rhetorical question. Isn't Utah on a one game winning streak?

 

[pshn80]

Yeah, that cousins guy plays way too many minutes.

I feel like there is an alternate reality that I'm unaware of based on some people's takeaways from last nights game.

If Hayes is ever in for cousins late in a game for reasons other than fouls or something, Malone should be fired on the spot. I think he'd agree with that. Hayes at his peak is worse than cousins at his absolute worst.

Your probably right but I made my comment about Cousins because, in truth, good as he is, anybody would have been better than he was at the end of the game. But I won't recommend firing Malone for playing him.

 

[Chubbs]

Your probably right but I made my comment about Cousins because, in truth, good as he is, anybody would have been better than he was at the end of the game. But I won't recommend firing Malone for playing him.

That doesn't mean you don't play him again tonight, tomorrow, and every late game situation for the next five seasons. Even if he is terrible. That's your guy. You hope he learns to win. There's really no other option.

 

[jpsls]

I thought he was trying to lose as well during the game. I think it was a rookie coach making rookie mistakes. We were in night 1 of a back to back and maybe he thought he had to limit the starters minutes? That's a poor rationalization, but Malone seemed unhappy post game. Seething might be the right word. Mclemore should have played 40 mins. Why the heck not? Do gms really need to see MT play at this point? They know what he can and can't do. Mclemore never looks tired to me.

I hear ya about the east, but, it's kinda hard to see this team rattling off 5 wins in a row on the road against anyone, know what I mean? Teams that lose at home almost never are better on the road. No matter how bad the east may be.

Tonight should be an easy win, right? Does anyone actually believe that at this point?

Why in the world do you keep thinking this organization is tanking? There is a difference between tanking and simply being a bad team. The kings are the latter.

You think a rookie head coach who is trying to make a name for himself wants to keep losing games?