Grades v. Knicks 12/31/11

Who was King of the Fuglies tongiht?

  • Salmons

    Votes: 3 12.0%
  • Cousins

    Votes: 1 4.0%
  • Thornton

    Votes: 2 8.0%
  • Reke

    Votes: 10 40.0%
  • Fredette

    Votes: 6 24.0%
  • Outlaw

    Votes: 3 12.0%

  • Total voters
    25
  • Poll closed .

Bricklayer

Don't Make Me Use The Bat
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HAPPY NEW YEAR FROM THE KINGS!

Really now. This was fugly.

Have a fun party tonight guys. This of course demands girls, but given the likely low viewing totals with a Saturday night New Years and a terrible game on the front end of a back to back, I'll switch it up a bit and go with the Silver Screen Sirens so as not to waste the modern hotties.


Salmons ( D ) -- selfish one on one shot to start that just blew my mind because it was so absolutely 100% exactly what we have been talking about not doing, and he started off our game doing the very exact thing. But deserves some credit, because he seemed to maybe realize what a crap shot that first one had been, and wheel the Knicks widened there lead out as far as 22 in the early going, John was one of the first guys to discover the lost art of the pass. Nothing special or terribly creative, but just the simple act of swinging it around the perimeter to the open man was nigh revolutionary for this team, and led to several long bombs from Thornton that helped us finally stabilize things. Whie the Knicks were having too much fun to rely on Melo, Salmons, to the surprise of absolutely noone around this board at least, proved too small/weak to stop him in the second Was fighting him, but as it was against Gerald Wallace was fouling him trying to contend and was quickly in foul trouble. This was 7pts on 3-9 shooting in half a game of nothingness, but the brief apparently conscious attempt to become more of a passer was noted, and frankly we had bigger problems on the night.
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Hedy Lamarr -- active from the late 30s to early 50s, her biggest hit may have been Samson and Deliliah. Reportedly she escaped marriage to a Nazi conspirator in the 30s to come to America to be a star, and later in life had blown all her money and was reduced to doing the Winona and gettngn picked up for shoplifting at age 50.

Hayes ( B- ) -- nice tip tip hustle hoop on the offensive glass, and had 5 offensive boards in 6 early minutes, but we struggled with him in there. Nice job gobbling defensive boards and triggering our break after returning late in the 2nd, but this became another game where we seemed...I dunno how to put it. On a team full of offensive talent, everybody seems to be running over everybody else's offense, and when Chuck is out there his lack of ability to score is pretty glaring. Feels kind of like he's out there alone playing an entirely different game from the other guys without much interaction, and for whatever reason, that's 2 of the last 3 games where he's led the team in worst +/- an the other game he was within -1 of worst). In any case, we were better with Jason out there this game. Note: Most of the points of Chandler and whoever the hell Harrellson is came from Cousins not understanding how to D those limited players rahter than against Chuck.
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Lana Turner --one of the original platinum blonds, active from the late 30s to late 50s, she was the girl in The Postman Always Rings Twice and is sometimes called one fo the first scream queens for appearing in Dr. Jekyl and Mr. Hyde. In the late 50s her daughter stabbed her (Lana's) lover to death in what was later termed self defense.

Cousins ( D+ ) -- just a flat out bad game, and you can tell from the postgame comments that Mt. St. Cousins is beginning to rumble toward explosion again. Picked up an immediate cheap foul on an illegal screem. Then took a selfish one on one shot, missed an open Jimmer at the 3pt line to flip up a miss of his own. Not able to convert inside, but got to the line and it sof course ironic that the only guy currently able to hit his FTs is our 270lb center. But it was mostly another night of blowing layups and finsihes, and frankly that is not a problem with the overall offense. Compounded this by not covering his own scrub backup from college out at the three point line, and watched a nobody rain threes on his head in the early going. Showed a little life in the third, immediately coming up with a steal and finish, then getting just a fingertip ona ball for a blocked shot. Most promisingly of all we finally FINALLY saw some of the Princeton type passing skills again as he notched his first 4 assists of the season. But that was it for silver lining. After he returned in the 4th he made repoated mistakes guarding Chandler helping him on his way to what had to be something like a career night offensively. Chandler is the easiet guy int he world to guard -- just stay between him and the hoop. Demarcus consistently refused to do that and wanted to constantly step out to help etc., and the result was an embarrassing 22pt night from a center who entered the game averaging 7ppg. Something for the passing, as we'll take anything we can get. Nothing for the offense or defense, such as it was.
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Greta Garbo -- the famous swedish beauty who was active from the late 20s at the end of the silent era until 1941, when she abruptly and permanently retired, never to return to the screen. Good way to increase your legend reeally.
 
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Thornton ( D ) -- its interesting in a train wreck sort of way to watch how each of our guys tries to interpret being a team player given the almsot complete abdication by the coaching staff from giving anybody any roles or structure. For Marcus in the early going he basically turned himself into Kyle Korver, settling back passively to just chuck away from the 3pt line since I guess that is kid fo roleplayery and hence team player right? In any case, it was all he was doing early, and when Salmosn briefly broke out of his own selfish shell long enough to make a couple of passes. Marcus drained back to back threes and helped give us our first spark of life. But it was all he hit, and all he was doing, and on his next 3pt attempt he chucked it off the side of the backboard. Then at halftime he thought about things, came out, and did exactly the opposite, taking no threes at all after the break and instead driving into the teeth of the defense repeatedly for low percentage things. Along the way he was just running around freelancing up top on defense, constantly gambling and shooting passing lanes and coming up with the occasional steal while allowing his men the more than occasional free path to the rim. This was a true playground effort here, and if things like this don't cause our coach to wise up and start drawing up and calling some plays, then nothing will and he he will not be missed.
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Ava Gardner -- active from the 1940s through old age, her husbands included Mickey Rooney (as unlikely as that sounds) and Frank Sinatra

Evans ( D+ ) -- had the immediate lane to start the game, but in a sad sign of things to come the ball slipped out of his hand as he was going up for the layup and we came up empty. Made a good hustle play to break up a fastbreak on a Kings turnover, getting back to block the shot, but again in a sign of the disorganization and disunity out there, nobody else was running back to grab the rebound, and the Knicks scored anyway. Stumbled repeatedly on drives seeming out of control and rhythm and looking awkward. And again it was interesting to watch Reke's own interpretation of how to get us out of this mess, as he tried to force the issue in the open court to get his offense before we set up, and then in the halfcourt stumbled and bumbled around trying to create while looking for lanes to the hoop or for guys to pass to and never knowing exactly where any of those thigs were going to be in this "offense". Still missing his FTs and got some briliant help from the braniacs at Arco, who have decided the best way to get people out of a FT shooting funk where they are clearly overthinking and putting too much pressure on themselves is to boo them, because obviously its an effort thing. Got going for a brief spell in the 2nd hitting Jimmer for a three, going full court for a layup, then dropping a pass over the top of the defense to JT for a layup. And after finally getting a FT to fall, then smoothly struck the jumper next time down. But it didn't lead anywhere and the rst fo the game was a collection of balls roling off the rim on his drives, occasional selfish forced jumpers (including an airball) when he couldn't figure out anythind else to do, and joining Thronton in compeltely abandoning any defensive concepts up top and jsut faliling aroudn trying for wraparoudn steals as guys raced past him in the hopes of making a homerun play. Overall there was more organization in some of the exhibiton games we saw him in this summer. As an aside, when Donte and Jason checked in it was notable how comparatively easily Reke was able to find them just from knowing exactly where they were going to be after years of playing together.
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Gene Tierney -- less remembered than some of her peers, the Heaven Can Wait actress was no less beautiful and had a turn for comedy


Bench

Fredette ( D- ) -- Jimmer's worst game, by quite a bit, and the first one since that first preseason game where his defense was notably a problem. Just got off to an awful start on both ends. Lost Douglas at the three point line and paid. Missed an open three in return. as he was jsut out of rhythm out there and chucking up one on one give up bricks all game. Got picked and beat by Fields for a dunk. Did get a layup off of the ball movement on the nice pass from Cousins in what I think the offense should look a lot more like, but it was an isolated event probably drawn up by the two players themselves in the sand with a stick during the previous timeout. The problems he has been having getting trapped and stripped looked much more acute this game as the Knicks repeatedly jumped his dribble, trapped him, and took the ball away. Also wasn't physical enough to keep Fields from beating him inside when he was switched onto him. Just in general a real struggle, and he was as frustrated a our main guys by the end of it.
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Lilian Gish -- a major star of the silent film age, she would have been a head turner in any era.

Thomas ( INC ) -- I didn't know how to grade this, so I kind of bailed and just called it an incomplete. As usual, you can count on him to be competitive at least, but it would be nice if he starts to progress to also thinking about what he's doing out there. Went back and forth with Bibby for a bit in an early stint, too quick for Mike, but too short to challenge his shot the other way. Again drove in for the one vs. rhe trees layup attempt to close the quarter, and that is just not going to work at this level kid. Stop it. Got a fun little blocked shot in the 4th garbagetime. Got run over trying to guard the 8 inch taller Landry Fields on defense. Charged inside and got to the line repeatdly in the dying minutes, whihc unfortunately just meant this debacle went on longer.
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Lauren Bacall -- Bogie's squeeze and famed for her smoldering look. This one always causes me problems because from certain angles her features bear an uncanny resemblance to my mom, if my mom had been born hot and famously sultry, and nobody wants to see their mom giving that look.
 
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Hickson ( C- ) -- just nothing in his first stint except a follow dunk off a Fredete miss and eventually lost the bulk of his minutes to a suddenly resurgent JT. Threw up an airball in garbagetime. Must be said, this acquisition was fine on paper/as return for Omri who wasn't panning out. But as Petrie drunkenly stacked a dozen offensive players onto one team Hickson doesn't have any obvious role here. In this game he was basically frozen out because we have so many other scorers. And so then you are playing a JJ Hickson and telling him not to score, which is the very thing he's good at? Less awful than just completely ineffective.
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Kim Novak -- active through the 50s, she played the dual roles in Hitchcock's vertigo and while less known than some of here peers, was that sort of beauty who pops up when you randomly surf through an old movie and leaves you wondering who dat?

Outlaw ( INC ) -- in as we went tiny again in the early going, and jsut truned in an embarrassing performance. Kept on passing up open shots and dribbling in to take awkward low percentage things off the dribble. And since he did not rebound or play any defense either he was well on his way to a nice juicy F if we had not miraculoualy rediscovered Donte to take his minutes.
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Grace Kelly -- the Philly stunner who parlayed her celebrated beauty not only into an Oscar winning movie career, but then into making herself into the real life Princess of Monaco. Her parents were major Phily figures, including a mother who was the first woman to head the Physical Education Department at my alam mater, Penn.

Thompson ( B ) -- came in and helped us just by being a roleplayer. Not trying to take his man one on one, instead just running the court taking passes, doing his best to defend, and in general playing well off the ball. A couple of nice post takes too. Did just what we needed. Was less effective in his second stint. Got frustrated and pushed Bill Wallker to the ground in the garbagetime of the 4th. Padded up hsi stats in the garbagetime to end up with our best staline. But also incurred the wrath of those lovely Philly boobirds in Arco as he joined, or perhaps led, are FT bricking attack late in the game.
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Rita Hayworth -- an interesting story that is too long to relate here. Suffice it to say that Rita Hayworth wasnot a redhead, but rather of Spanish decent, and named Margarita Carmen Cansino at birth. She was born to a fmaily of famous Spanish dancers and after her family's money was wiped out in the depression she and her father had to play clubs in Mexico until she was discovered in Hollywood, changed her name and hair color, underwent electrostylus to alter here looks, and became so synonymous withe the word bombshell that her image (or name accdording to some) was painted on the very first atomic bomb. Not sure if that's an honor or not.


Greene ( B ) -- with Salmons in foul trouble Donte was brought in the last minute of the half to guard Melo, and did a great job of defending him...and Melo still powered through and finshed for the +1. Still, it was excellent defense, and maybe that was enough to remind Westphal not to forget about him because he got bumped up in the rotation and was the guy to replace Salmons in the early third when Salmons got his 4th. And he really gave us a burst there as he and Jason are quickly making me nostalgic for last year's team, that was bigger, less morose, and had a lot more willing roleplayers. Donte played good D, moved the ball, and spotted up and started raining threes as guys found him. Started taking some hard hits from the Knciks too on his drives, as they put him down under the stantion several times. Wasn't perfect of course, he's not a star and could not sustain, and he had one ugly heat check shot that was just amateurish. But he helepd, adn eh and Jaosn probably gave us our two best bursts of the game. If we see Outlaw instead of him tonight I would be surprised.
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Veronica Lake -- was choosing between two of the famous Hollywood tragic stories here, and chose Veronica over Linda Darnell basically because she was just more famous. And famous for here hair as much as anything else. She was only 4'11" but emerged as a major sex symbol in the early 40s, althoguh here career was largely done by 1950. She then went into a long period of financial and mental decline, acoholism, and was reduced to working as a barmaid near the end of her life before dying of hepatiits and renal failure at 50 in 1973.


Honeycutt ( INC ) -- in for the late garbagetime and got his first two points in the NBA on a pair of FTs. Probably not how he dreamed his first points in the league would come but hey, on our team hitting Fts is an accomplisment all its own.
 
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Reke is slowly creeping his way to the F grade, if he hasn't already tonight.

Eh, probably. However, comma, considering that he had the second-best FG% (a real low bar, I'll admit) and no turnovers, I'd say a whole lot of people need to take their share of the blame (including your boy at 2-10) before we get to Evans.
 
Evans - F (when your a superstar you better step up)
MT23 - B
Jimmer - D
JT - B +
Cuz - B
hayes - B+
Isiah thomas - C
salmons - F
JJ - B
Westphal - D
Freethrows - outside cuz and jimmer - F
 
Tyreke played too many F-quality minutes. But Westphal gets an F- and double-secret probation for inspiring this team to progressively worse performances. Not even competitive on their home floor? Epic fail.
 
Eh, probably. However, comma, considering that he had the second-best FG% (a real low bar, I'll admit) and no turnovers, I'd say a whole lot of people need to take their share of the blame (including your boy at 2-10) before we get to Evans.

When have I ever said Jimmer is my "boy?" :/
 
Have high expectations from reke. and he fails to deliver

He's not in much position to deliver. Or I should couldn't deliver even if he was ready to. Much of the system, or alleged system, and roster moves etc. are designed intentionally to lift that mantle from Reke. We actually have a sytem and roster so unbalanced that if one of our young talented players was going to go off for 30pts on the night, he could only do it by breaking the system and throwing half of his teammates off of their own shotcentric games. That's insane

Perhaps Reke's greatest problem is he's not enough of the jerk star to say screw that and take it back. The coach tells him to play differently and against his instincts, and he's doing it -- to really crappy results. I've mentioned before that if you told Westbrook to do that, or Melo, or whoever, the coach would get sand kicked in his face and the player would do it his way anyway. In Reke's case he said in preseason he was going to go with the new system etc. because he wanted to win. Well, that's not exactly happening. Tyreke is rampantly uncomfortable out there, but you can see what the system has done to everybody at this point. Cousins, Thornton, Salmons, even Jimmer today gunning up stupid one on one shots because they don't recognize any options or see any other hope. Nobody getting the shots they want when they do get to shoot. And because everybody's a shooter, they don't get their shots an their effort on the other end lags. That's coaching (and GMing). Clear as day. I have not been a big Westphal must go guy before, but this is intolerable. Nobody learns or improves in this sort of environment. Adn nobody wins either. So if you don't have the talent learning, and you don't have them winning..why exactly am I employing you again?
 
He's not in much position to deliver. Or I should couldn't deliver even if he was ready to. Much of the system, or alleged system, and roster moves etc. are designed intentionally to lift that mantle from Reke. We actually have a sytem and roster so unbalanced that if one of our young talented players was going to go off for 30pts on the night, he could only do it by breaking the system and throwing half of his teammates off of their own shotcentric games. That's insane

Perhaps Reke's greatest problem is he's not enough of the jerk star to say screw that and take it back. The coach tells him to play differently and against his instincts, and he's doing it -- to really crappy results. I've mentioned before that if you told Westbrook to do that, or Melo, or whoever, the coach would get sand kicked in his face and the player would do it his way anyway. In Reke's case he said in preseason he was going to go with the new system etc. because he wanted to win. Well, that's not exactly happening. Tyreke is rampantly uncomfortable out there, but you can see what the system has done to everybody at this point. Cousins, Thornton, Salmons, even Jimmer today gunning up stupid one on one shots because they don't recognize any options or see any other hope. Nobody getting the shots they want when they do get to shoot. And because everybody's a shooter, they don't get their shots an their effort on the other end lags. That's coaching (and GMing). Clear as day. I have not been a big Westphal must go guy before, but this is intolerable. Nobody learns or improves in this sort of environment. Adn nobody wins either. So if you don't have the talent learning, and you don't have them winning..why exactly am I employing you again?

Bingo! And Westbrook is doing it (his way) on a team with the current NBA scoring champion. If anything, we should worry that Reke is too nice.
 
He's not in much position to deliver. Or I should couldn't deliver even if he was ready to. Much of the system, or alleged system, and roster moves etc. are designed intentionally to lift that mantle from Reke. We actually have a sytem and roster so unbalanced that if one of our young talented players was going to go off for 30pts on the night, he could only do it by breaking the system and throwing half of his teammates off of their own shotcentric games. That's insane

Perhaps Reke's greatest problem is he's not enough of the jerk star to say screw that and take it back. The coach tells him to play differently and against his instincts, and he's doing it -- to really crappy results. I've mentioned before that if you told Westbrook to do that, or Melo, or whoever, the coach would get sand kicked in his face and the player would do it his way anyway. In Reke's case he said in preseason he was going to go with the new system etc. because he wanted to win. Well, that's not exactly happening. Tyreke is rampantly uncomfortable out there, but you can see what the system has done to everybody at this point. Cousins, Thornton, Salmons, even Jimmer today gunning up stupid one on one shots because they don't recognize any options or see any other hope. Nobody getting the shots they want when they do get to shoot. And because everybody's a shooter, they don't get their shots an their effort on the other end lags. That's coaching (and GMing). Clear as day. I have not been a big Westphal must go guy before, but this is intolerable. Nobody learns or improves in this sort of environment. Adn nobody wins either. So if you don't have the talent learning, and you don't have them winning..why exactly am I employing you again?

The whole Westbrook/Evans comparison is pretty useless because Westbrook's team wins. If Tyreke's team won the coach never would have tried this redefining his role experiment.
 
Tyreke just gave up in this game. There was a point where we climbed back to 10 or 12 down and Reke had already given up. On the same play he let Melo go by him without even attempting defense and then he let an old hobbled Bibby just absolutely BLOW by him without Tyreke even taking a step to stop him.
 
He's not in much position to deliver. Or I should couldn't deliver even if he was ready to. Much of the system, or alleged system, and roster moves etc. are designed intentionally to lift that mantle from Reke. We actually have a sytem and roster so unbalanced that if one of our young talented players was going to go off for 30pts on the night, he could only do it by breaking the system and throwing half of his teammates off of their own shotcentric games. That's insane

Perhaps Reke's greatest problem is he's not enough of the jerk star to say screw that and take it back. The coach tells him to play differently and against his instincts, and he's doing it -- to really crappy results. I've mentioned before that if you told Westbrook to do that, or Melo, or whoever, the coach would get sand kicked in his face and the player would do it his way anyway. In Reke's case he said in preseason he was going to go with the new system etc. because he wanted to win. Well, that's not exactly happening. Tyreke is rampantly uncomfortable out there, but you can see what the system has done to everybody at this point. Cousins, Thornton, Salmons, even Jimmer today gunning up stupid one on one shots because they don't recognize any options or see any other hope. Nobody getting the shots they want when they do get to shoot. And because everybody's a shooter, they don't get their shots an their effort on the other end lags. That's coaching (and GMing). Clear as day. I have not been a big Westphal must go guy before, but this is intolerable. Nobody learns or improves in this sort of environment. Adn nobody wins either. So if you don't have the talent learning, and you don't have them winning..why exactly am I employing you again?

Maybe I misread things, because at the start of this one that's exactly what it looked like from Tyreke. First play of the game came the tunnel vision right to the hoop for the clank of the backboard and rim. Just because he's not jacking up shots doesn't mean he's not doing exactly what you speak of. In fact, it's even worse because he usually leaves it up to a teammate to bail him out causing them to have to take a bad shot.
 
Tyreke just gave up in this game. There was a point where we climbed back to 10 or 12 down and Reke had already given up. On the same play he let Melo go by him without even attempting defense and then he let an old hobbled Bibby just absolutely BLOW by him without Tyreke even taking a step to stop him.

I have seen too many of those blow by Reke when he's the last defender, he just half asses a defense and they just walk by him.
 
The whole Westbrook/Evans comparison is pretty useless because Westbrook's team wins. If Tyreke's team won the coach never would have tried this redefining his role experiment.



Yes, and Westbrook's team suddenly and dramatically started to win after being AWFUL just as soon as they fired the old retread coach and replaced him with Brooks. The Thunder were 1-13 when they fired Carlesimo. They only finished the season 22-46 under Brooks, but they got stronger as the year went on and were clearly on the way up with the same personnel.
 
Yes, and Westbrook's team suddenly and dramatically started to win after being AWFUL just as soon as they fired the old retread coach and replaced him with Brooks. The Thunder were 1-13 when they fired Carlesimo. They only finished the season 22-46 under Brooks, but they got stronger as the year went on and were clearly on the way up with the same personnel.

I'm usually the last guy to blame the coach but I'm about this close to saying Wesphal must at least be PART of the problem. Even Chuck Hayes "veteran leadership" has already seemed to stop working. Either it's a coaching problem of we just have some of the dumbest, laziest, most selfish players in the league.
 
On the plus side, if we continue playing this bad something will have to give, the coach, a trade, and/or Petrie. I can see the players trying to do something, but they are so lost that they can't. The frustration was clear at the end of the game. These guys want to win, they know they should be winning, and the offense is stopping them. I get what Paul Westphal is trying to do, but I think we just don't have the personnel to do it. Passing does not come naturally to any of our players, and it shouldn't. All of them are great individual players. With the exception of Hayes, every one of our starters is a one on one type player. Asking them to make the correct cuts and passes out of thin air when none of them have ever shown the ability to do so consistently is a problem. We need some slashers on the team who will make the right cuts at the right time. It would open up the offense immensely and get things moving.

With all that said, we did run some plays with Cousins on the elbow which were marginally effective. It in fact seemed to be the only play the team knows because they ran it every time down the floor if it wasn't an iso. Unfortunately, the basket looked like it was about 2 inches around for DMC tonight. He really needs to stop waiting around so much. I know he is not an explosive jumper, but by the time he makes a move on the low block, he is already double teamed. Then its turnover or difficult shot. If he moved towards the basket when he got the ball instead of waiting, his percentage would increase a bunch. Its much easier to get around 1 guy instead of 2.
 
Tyreke played too many F-quality minutes. But Westphal gets an F- and double-secret probation for inspiring this team to progressively worse performances. Not even competitive on their home floor? Epic fail.

The whole team played like crap, not just Reke, and that's because the whole team doesn't have a clue what they're doing, thanks to our coach.

Given Reke was the one you singled out, I guess you loved how Marcus/Jimmer/Outlaw/Salmons played, right?
 
He already had his F in Portland. Here he was bad, but was he really worse than Marcus or Jimmer or Cousins? So much badness.
Tonight was my first game at Arco this season (I am there tomorrow again). In answer to your question above is "no, though Evans was very poor and ineffective, he wasn't any worse than Thornton, Fredette, Thompson, Greene, Salmons - I really can't pick. This my 27th season so I've seen a lot but this was just plain discouraging.

The most life was shown by Thomas. It was a small puff of fresh air to see Tyler Honeycutt go two for two from the line. In re Greene, he may look OK in his stats but he didn't look good to me at all. A step slow, poor decisions, HE tried to dribble to towards the basket, if there had been no defenders he still would not have made it. I guess we just have to hang in there and hope this badness has a short run. It's hard to be optimistic about their playing a good game tomorrow but I hope so so I don't lose my driver.
 
Tyreke just gave up in this game. There was a point where we climbed back to 10 or 12 down and Reke had already given up. On the same play he let Melo go by him without even attempting defense and then he let an old hobbled Bibby just absolutely BLOW by him without Tyreke even taking a step to stop him.

Why single out Tyreke, they all wore an expression of defeat rather early on.
 
I DVR'd this game to watch later as I was having dinner out with friends for New Year's Eve. Sounds like I really didn't miss much. ;) I think I'll save the hour and do something more productive instead.
 
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