Grades v. Knicks 11/25/09

Should Donte Greene be a starter?

  • Yes, start him over Noc at SF.

    Votes: 41 39.8%
  • Yes, start him at PF, move Jason to C, bench Spencer.

    Votes: 14 13.6%
  • Yes, start him at PF, bench Jason.

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Yes, start him at OG, bench Beno.

    Votes: 11 10.7%
  • No, keep him coming off the bench.

    Votes: 37 35.9%

  • Total voters
    103
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Bricklayer

Don't Make Me Use The Bat
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Boxscore

Nocioni ( B- ) -- came out hot from the outside, knocking down three from deep in the first few minutes, and just about everybody was looking for him spotting up off the pass. Was rarely heard from thereafter -- think he had 8 popints inthe first 5 minutes, finished with 10 overall, and just fell in love with the three point line after his initial success (hit his first two, missed his last 5). As an oldster minutes were limited with the long stretch of 20pt margins after half. Irrelevant for most of the night, but ahalf grade bump here for helping set the tone early.

Thompson ( C ) -- you would think that in this game of all games Jason would have a prohibitive advantage inside and just pummel the Knicks, but it was not so. Despite being routinely guarded by the likes of Danilo Gallinari (a SF) and Wilson Chandler (a swingman) in the early going he struggled off to a 1-6 start and continued looking out of sorts the way he did on the road trip with muliple little gnats swarming aorund him whenever he got the ball. Had a missed tip, a couple of blown assists of course, and also of course, got into foul trouble. Was in and out after that and did eventually end up with a solid night on the glass, but was never any real factor and is clearly slumping.

Hawes ( B+ ) -- this was a strange and borderline ridiculous game for Spencer. As it was in Houston, he saw another 6'9" PF guarding him backed by a troupe of midget...excuse me, I mean "little people"...and suddenly got brave. Pummeled the Knicks inside throughout the first quarter, converting on several passes from Tyreke inside in the early going, adding a really nifty spinning dropoff pass to JT as well (that JT of course blew), faked a three and drove for a layup, driving aroudn 5'9" Nate Robinson in the process, hooks, tips, you name it. By the end of the quarter had 13 points on 6-7 shooting and was just killing them. And then in ahead scratching development...that was just about it. Not because Spencer slowed down. But because his coach shut him down. All I can presume is that it was Westphal getting caught up in the smallball matchup thing, or mayeb the game just got out of control so fast that he did not feel it was necessary, but Spencer went from looking completely unstoppable out there against a midget team to highly paid spectator without any noticeable reason why. Maybe it was the defense on Lee who was scoring back the other way on his way to a big game? In any case, started off the third with what is becoming a tradition -- the second half celebratory three point chuck (this one he hit), and was out of the game for good not long therafter. Finished the night with 16pts on 7-8 shooting in 18 minutes. Odd.

Greene ( A+ ) -- now I rarely give out A+s, and I even more rarely give them out to non-star players aginst this level of opponent. But this was a pretty ridiculous game by Donte. He just lit up the arena on the way to his career game. Started off with an even bigger size advantage at the 2 then our frontcourt guys had over the mini-ballers, and used it to get off to the hot start. Back in to start the second and immediately bailed us out with a long long three against the clock, really got fired up and started blocking shots like mad on defense, one time getting Al Harrington no fewer than 3 times on one possesion. :eek: It was all the defensive promise of a 6'11" athelte realized for a night (and Donte making good on his determination to be one of our best defenders). Made a huge hustle play diving down on a posting Knick, slapping the ball away, and then diving on the floor to secure it. Started off the third killing little Nate both inside and out, blowing by him for a big dunk, and then draining a three over the mite's head, forcing a quick NY TO that had D'Antoni threatening to rupture an artery while yelling at Nate. Used his size and ahtleticism for a series of spectacualr dunks and blocks in the third, but the key to his scoring was maybe the one thing out of al of this that he's not guaranteed to duplicate: our oft off target marksman was bombing threes from all over the court and having a good time doing it. Drafting Reke was probably the franchise turner. Getting that star to build everything around. But Donte's sudden emergence as another huge young athletic nightmare who plays both ends of the court could really kick things into gear. In 3 starts this season he is averaging 20.3pts on 24-37 shooting.

Evans ( B- ) -- in which I continue to hand out bizarrely low grades for games that might be career games for most players. Tonight all Reke did was threaten a 20-10-10 triple double and finish with a hohum 19pts 11rebs 7ast. But you watched, and it was a struggle. How many players in the NBA could you say that about? 10? 12? Was facing all kinds of double team pressure early on, and was pressing too much against it. Had a number of assists, but also tried to force things that weren't really possible. Also continued his recent habit of taking too long on those postups of the little guards, getting called for a 5 second call and coming close once or twice more (did actualy look a little like Barkley on the back down). Came back in after his first break and forced a 1 on 1 airballed 3. Started to get on the defensive glass and set people up for open shots with all the attention he was drawing, but there wer a number of missed conversions. Finally scored on a post where he pinned Duhon and held him off until Donte found him. Dropped a nifty bounce pass to Brockman for a layup before calling for the ball...so he could airball a second three. In the third began by draining a J over Nate, then quickshot and bricked a second one. In fact most of his 11 misses tonight were missed attempts to punish the Knicks defense for colapsing three guys into the paint against him. The jumper just was not there, and Reke was getting alittle frustrated. Once he develops that shot its going to be comical watching teams try to deal with him. Thought he may have been a little too conscious of his streak of 20pt games and potential triple double late. Maybe the coach too as we left him in for a long stretch of the smei-garbagetime, althoguh as a rookie of course that's also called development. So 19-11-7, but it had warts damnit. So ho-hum. Just another night for super rook.
 
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Udoka ( C ) -- in early for Donte for some reason, and we lost a ton of
ground with him out there against Nate Robinson. Did nothing particularly wrong, got in on some hustle splays, but ss is often the case with up and down loosey goosey games, punchless defensive roleplayers are just fish out of water. Only King not to score.

Rodriguez ( B- ) -- not the most efficient of nights for Sergio, but was aggressive and worked his way into solid numbers with long minutes through the long semi-garbagetime of the game. Came in and immediately knocked in a three, sliced to the rim for a layup and added ballhandling. But also got lit up by Nate in the 2nd quarter the other way. In the third made a beautiful full court pass to a streaking Tyreke that had to be right on the money to drop in over the defenders head and not go out of bounds, and it was a perfect strike. Missed a lot of shots/layups on the day, and most of his bad amrkers manifested at one time or the other -- shaky shooting, poor defense, turnover prone. Yet did not matter in this game, made a handful of nifty plays and still ended up wiht 15 4 and 4, no matter how inefficiently he got there.

Casspi ( B- ) -- had himself another solid game, although was overshadowed and kind of forgotten about behind the Donte fireworks. In in the early 2nd and missed back to back wide open jumpers set up by Reke, but followed with a tough bump n' grind right to left drive that he flipped up and bounced in late in the quarter. Did not get as many second half minutes as you might have expected given the nature of the game, but other than continuing to struggle from the line was solid, if not terribly inspired by his standards.

Brockman ( B ) -- solid workmanlike effort in the longest minutes of his young career. Trudged along for much of the game, working the glass, banging bodies, but had a couple of nice offensive finishes showing some skill level. Obviously the Knicks are a team you can play a 6'7" big long minutes against, but neither Lee nor Harrington were exactly intimidated and combiend for 42 points (Brockman did clobber Lee once however). Late in the game made a nice save of a poor Reke pass, slapping the ball back out to our backcourt when it was out of his reach.

Notes: Hawes was nearly completely forgotten about after the first quarter
 
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Team grade A-

Donte grade gotta be an A+. What a beast tonight. Love the blocks even more than the scoring. Both were phenominal.
 
I guess someone will soon pop up a "Donte Greene - any questions?" I loved his effort and execution tonight. My only question was who was guarding him? The Knicks D was absolutely horrible. Even the Kings were too slow getting out on NY as they bombed away from 3pt land. If they had been on the outcome would have been more in doubt. Nice to see Donte making big strides on D - especially help D. The fact that he can legitimately play 2, 3, or 4 (heck even 5 in a pinch) is extremely valuable if he can show the consistency when he gets minutes, starting or off the bench. Even in a somewhat slowed by his ankle injury, Reke was amazing - again! Talk about consistency and lack of any rookie jitters.
 
so glad we have a player that can put up 19-11-7 and i think to myself...man...kind of a bad game.

I thought he played kinda well..

Stinking Thompson reminds me of... ugh... Forget that dudes name.. Was on the Hornets for a while.. Kind of a roleplayer that would always put up 10-8.. Forget his name.. Retired recently.

EDIT: PJ Brown... YES!!!

Dunno why I was thinking about JR Reid lol.. I get those two mixed up.
 
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Donte plays so much better starting. Keep today's lineup and see what happens. Beno can still play well off the bench. And hot damn, did New York get caught up in Donte's inferno or what?
 
I thought he played kinda well..

Stinking Thompson reminds me of... ugh... Forget that dudes name.. Was on the Hornets for a while.. Kind of a roleplayer that would always put up 10-8.. Forget his name.. Retired recently.
Are you referring to PJ Brown? He was a very solid player, great defender, class guy.
 
I thought he played kinda well..

Stinking Thompson reminds me of... ugh... Forget that dudes name.. Was on the Hornets for a while.. Kind of a roleplayer that would always put up 10-8.. Forget his name.. Retired recently.

P.J. Brown??

Not hardly. Amongst other things PJ was a great defender.
 
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Im starting to think the best option might be

Beno - Evans - Noc - Greene - Thompson

This gives every spot a legit backup option. With JT so incredibly foul prone, Spencer ( who actually played pretty good tonight ) is absolutely a better backup for JT than anyone else. Its not like your gutting your bench either, A Sergio Udoka Casspi Brockman Hawes second unit is still very good.

Just so im not contradicting myself. In another thread I mentioned that I thought Spencer should still start, and if he does, Im ok with that. My one exeption was that if we bench spencer it better be for someone who has a future on this team ( NOT Sean May ) So sending Hawes to the bench for someone like Donte is absolutely fine with me.
 
Against any other team I would love to see some A+ grades... Donte's dunk deserves an A+++ but man...

B+'s for everyone. Sergio should get a C for his horrible shooting. It's amazing how an NBA pg could be such a horrible shooter. Granted Andre miller and Kidd can't shoot but damn. Tyreke almost had a triple double which was cool to watch.
 
They had Greene with six blocks. NO WAY! He must have had eight. I can't remember when I've seen a Kings player block that many. Maybe Webber in his prime or Keon Clark. This guy is starting to become a very good weakside defender. The question I keep asking myself is: How high is his ceiling? And myself keeps answering: Very High.
 
I've seen Donte high before on the Internet, 6 blocks is childs play for him. Try jerking when you're 6'11...
 
Im starting to think the best option might be

Beno - Evans - Noc - Greene - Thompson

This gives every spot a legit backup option. With JT so incredibly foul prone, Spencer ( who actually played pretty good tonight ) is absolutely a better backup for JT than anyone else. Its not like your gutting your bench either, A Sergio Udoka Casspi Brockman Hawes second unit is still very good.

Just so im not contradicting myself. In another thread I mentioned that I thought Spencer should still start, and if he does, Im ok with that. My one exeption was that if we bench spencer it better be for someone who has a future on this team ( NOT Sean May ) So sending Hawes to the bench for someone like Donte is absolutely fine with me.

So all of you guys now change your mind about this after i proposed this 2 weeks ago and got bashed to hell? wtf
 
They had Greene with six blocks. NO WAY! He must have had eight. I can't remember when I've seen a Kings player block that many. Maybe Webber in his prime or Keon Clark. This guy is starting to become a very good weakside defender. The question I keep asking myself is: How high is his ceiling? And myself keeps answering: Very High.


I ask myself similar questions. I agree it is very high. Consider the fact of his age, (21) and his work ethic, which he has shown this offseason, and his willingness to improve his defense, (seemingly all he did this off-season--other than grow up and become more disciplined). Keep in mind: HE'S ONLY 21!!! 21!!! Showing great things, and also the ability to improve, even better!!!
 
I don't see how anyone could think starting Greene at PF, move Jason to C, bench Spencer is a good idea... Jason barely ties down the PF spot with a good game here and there... he'd foul out 2x as quick at the 5... this got votes? :rolleyes:

I say bring Donte off the bench for now until he show's more consistency at the starting 3 spot. He's had what, 2 good games this season? He's great for some fire off the bench in the meantime... he'll appreciate it more when if it happens.
 
...a week ago people were throwing Donte in with package trade ideas. Now it's Spences turn for a while I guess..
 
Tonight's performance was amazing.....but I am not sure if he should be a starter just yet.

Have not voted. Not sure what to choose.
 
I've seen Donte high before on the Internet, 6 blocks is childs play for him. Try jerking when you're 6'11...

Obviously we are seeing you high on the internet. This is sick to the dome. Whats the deal yo.
 
I switched over to the Knicks post game show after the game on MSG channel. The announcers said that the Knicks went into Donte's inferno tonight. In the locker room interview Nate said that Tyreke is going to be a great player, and that the Kings are a scrappy team that give a great effort. Something the Knicks might think about doing themselves..

Donte had a great game tonight. Everyone else gave a good effort. It was a team win. And I don't care if Sergio missed a few shots..
 
Good game tonight. We beat a team we were supposed to beat, but did it in a convincing fashion, despite a somewhat ho-hum game (19/11/7) from our franchise player. I think Coach Westphal deserves a lot of credit. Starting Donte seemed to give him the confidence he needs to be successful. He's done a lot of growing up this season, and I think Coach deserves much of the credit for that. If Donte ever lives up to 75% of his potential...oh boy, we might just have something here.

As to the poll, I think that we should probably still bring Greene off the bench, but play him more minutes (he's earned them). I'd theoretically like to start him at OG, just to have a rediculously huge lineup (I hate small ball) at 6'6, 6'11, 6'7, 6'11, 7'1, but we're probably better served bringing him off the bench. That dunk was :eek: though. Good for him. Just think, if our starting 2 guard tonight played for Don Nelson, he'd consistently get "DNP-Too Tall".
 
I switched over to the Knicks post game show after the game on MSG channel. The announcers said that the Knicks went into Donte's inferno tonight. In the locker room interview Nate said that Tyreke is going to be a great player, and that the Kings are a scrappy team that give a great effort. Something the Knicks might think about doing themselves..

Donte had a great game tonight. Everyone else gave a good effort. It was a team win. And I don't care if Sergio missed a few shots..

Are they reading this thread, because that is exactly what I wrote on page one of this thread...:cool:
 
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