Grades "v" Knicks 01/02

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Bricklayer

Don't Make Me Use The Bat
#1
And the ""s are just because that implies we had an opponent.

So when you are feeling down in the dumps, what better tonic than the Knicks? Make you feel better about yourself in classic "well, it could be worse" fashion.

I think in lieu of a theme, or I guess as a theme, tonight I am going to go ahead and grade both teams. The Knicks are just too colorfully pathetic to pass on the opportunity.

Cisco ( B ) -- despite meeting little resistance, did not give much above an average first half. Not bad, but nothing special with I think 7pts 2rebs or some such. Picked it up in the third however -- never did shoot well this time out, but the lack of resistance of course continued unabated, and Cisco started getting to the line a lot just by atatcking. No Knick will ever impede you, so you attack, and every once in a while somebody will passively wave and slap you on the arm or something. Some missed shots and sloppy play in the 4th. But it hardly mattered of course. Overall not a huge game, and scored more by persistance than brilliance this time out. But while obviously this was John and Brad's game, Cisco was the third support guy that was more than too mcuh for the pitiful Knicks.

Richardson ( D ) -- the Knicks starters were just pathetic in the first half, but QRich may have taken the cake -- did absolutely nothing, anywhere. Just ran up and down the court with no clue. Do not remember if he got any second half minutes or not. Isiah shook up his lineup yet again after, get this, the four starters not named Curry for the Knicks racked up, ahem, ONE combined point in the first half. And it wasn't QRich's point.

Moore ( C ) -- overwhelmed inside in the early going by the bulk of Curry, and spent much of the night in foul trouble. Did benefit there for a while by going against the catatonic Zach Randolph, but did less well when it was others. Had some fumblethumbs problems, and got himself an unnecessary T arguing a call with us up by 22 at the end of the third. Finally fouled out late in the game, but it was just a shrug. Nothing terrible, and amusingly better than the 20-10 guy who was supposed to show up for the Knicks tonight, but 6pts 7rebs 3TO and just not a factor.

Randolph ( F ) -- then again there was Zach, a 20-10 type player who just so clearly did not care tongiht, and barely exerted himself enough to even get into foul trouble, let alone do anything on offense. Just pathetic. Must have had a dinner date or something to get to too -- got himself thrown out of the game in the third quarter for throwing his head band at the ref, and frankly, good riddance. This is the sort of "effort" that desrves a fine of some sort, or at least not getting paid for the outing. Just an embarassment to the word professional.

Miller ( A ) -- Bulldozed inside by the human earth mover (Curry), but was able to operate completely unimpeded on the other end of the floor, and may actually have had the better half, seeing as Brad's included things like rebounding and defense which the big guy just can't be bothered with. Got some perimeter points as usual, but with Curry's lack of reaction speed was also able to drive to the hoop, to get putbacks against minimal rebounding resistance, and generally to do anything else he wanted to out there. Battled well on the boards, but of course there was hardly anyone to battle with except occasionally for David Lee when he was on the court and not fumbling it. Made a late play to sort orf reseal a game that was already sealed, going full length of the court for the score after we were trying to find someway to allow our sad opponents to pretend to be in it late. An obvious grade for the monster numbers, but this was literally all too easy -- going against the Knicks your numbers often aren't too far off what they would be if you were locked in a gym by yourself.

Curry ( B ) -- woohoo! The only bleeping Knick to even remotely show up to open this game, and completely carried the Knicks in the first half. 20 first half points..and 20 of the 21 scored by the Knicks starters. Even so did nothing else as usual, no rebounding, no defense, and Brad Miller may have outplayed him back the other way just by playing a compelte game. Also as usual, after the big start, there was foul trouble, the other team adjusted, Eddy got tired, maybe lost his focus, the guards get selfish and lose patience, and Curry only scored 4pts after the break while Miller continued racking up across the board numbers. Did not help himself witha Shaq-like showing at the line -- hitting only 4-11 and nearly airballing a few of them. The best Knick. Damn near the only Knick starter tonight. But this was still just basically a big push in the early going to throw it in Isiah's face about not starting him recently, and then three quarters of reminding everybody why he was benched in the first place.

Salmons ( A ) -- there are no A+s against the Knicks...like basically ever, for anyone. If Kobe drops 80 on them next time he sees them, it might be a B+. There is just no resistance, no heart, no coaching, no nothing there, and so big numebrs come oh so easily against the Knicks to any remotely talented NBA player. But if that were nto the case, if this has been a legitimate NBA contest, this would have to be a serious candidate for that rarified "+" game. John got off to the big first quarter against the Knicks unique combination of no effort on defense and no shotblocking, and just kept on pouring it on. Did anything he wanted, went anywhere he wanted, and could have almost had himself a triple double. Make that a quadruple double as Knick after Knick thre clumsy passes across the top of the circle just begging for someone -- normally John -- to just jump inot the lane and steal it for a breakaway. Would have been scary to see how many steals a steal master like Ron might have come up wiht -- it might actually have been 10. I am sure there were at least that many lazy passes thrown out there. The Knicks only rarely made anything approaching a "run" (normally involving them actually *gasp* scoring back to back hoops), but as often as not when they did John was the guy to answer it, and it was nromally no more complex than calling for the ball and dribbling in a straight line right to the undefended hoop for a layin past a couple of guys who average less than half a shotblock a game. So 32pts 11rebs 6ast 6stls -- John's career game. And with the "+"out of the question for this only being a practice game, an automatic clear cut "A", no further questions asked.

Crawford ( D+ ) -- if this is how he is going to play wiht a hurt hand, then maybe he just shouldn't. Did absolutely nothing on offense, and combined with his usual defensive "tenacity" led to a big unimpeded first half for Salmons. Was somewhat msyteriously annointed as the second Knick starter (along wiht Curry) to still get major run after half -- but suppose that's appropriate for a guy who is your leading scorer. Was modestly effective therafter, at least in setting up a few teammates for threes. But your two leading scorers tongiht (Crawford and Randolph), who normally combine for 38pts a night, gave you 14 on 4-15 shooting, and meanwhile Crawford's man has a career night against him. Thx guys!
 
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Bricklayer

Don't Make Me Use The Bat
#2
Udrih ( C ) -- still missing an not accomplishing much in the early going. Of course the Knicks PGs were even worse, so its all relative. Started quietly piling up solid across the board numbers, but never did get the shot worked out, and scored most of his points from the line. And while he was doing that the Knicks PGs (Marbury, Robinson) provided what little spark they were going to get with big second halves the other way.

Marbury ( B- ) -- back from his long absence and in the first half it looked like maybe he should have stayed away. Rusty, careless, and embarrassing himself out there as the putative leader. Has more basketball chops than any Kings backcourt player, but you would never have known it. Finally found somehting he could do at the end of the third when he started just chucking and splashing in threes, and that sparked him to lead a little Knicks push in the early 4th. Thankfully Isiah doesn't believe in pushes, or winning, or any of that crazy stuff, and so quickly substituted back in Wilson Chandler for him to restore the more normal 6 Kings vs. 4 Knicks balance that had persisted for much of the night.

Douby ( C+ ) -- back off the bench and missing again. Got his only first half points on one of those one on one floaters in the lane -- about all he seems to get consistently at this point. Gets points here for playing some defense and helping us take advantage of the perpetually careless Knicks.

Jeffries ( D+ ) -- spent much of the night out there looking lost and not sure whether he belonged on an NBA court, and making us wonder as well. Began the game missing a long jumper from the corner with an airball that was so far off it would have embarrassed me, let alone somebody earning $5mil a year. Afterwards steadfastly refused to shoot anymore, which somehow I doubt brought tears to many eyes in the Garden crowd. Did help a little for one late stretch with some offensive boards, but mostly was just working on various different ways to foul people while maintaining invisibility.

Williams ( C+ ) -- an actual real Justin sighting, with both first and second half components. Mild statistical output, but made some hustle plays in the late first, and fought inside with Lee

Lee ( B ) -- grabbed some first half boards, but also sloppy, careless with the ball, and showing his offensive limitations. Steadier after half, and did mostly good thing on the glass without the mistakes. Was a bit of a factor late in the game as the Knicks tried to sneak back into it and had several good finishes at the rim. Of course also repeatedly showed that he cannot protect the hoop on the other end when defending Kings drivers -- those hops are strictly for offensive purposes.

Jones ( C ) -- in the first half was going along giving us one of those solid games off the bench, and then missed a fastbreak dunk off the back of the iron near the end of the half, and followed that up with a missed layup at the buzzer, both misses helping to keep the Knicks within shouting distance, not that that is worth much to them. Threw in a missed jumper, and in general may have been pressing. Did get to the line a coupe of times, and hit a solid 3-4.

Chandler ( D- ) -- I am actually a little concerend about this one because Wilson made it far too obvious that he was flat out working for the other team tonight. especially in the post referee-scandal era, if you're going to buy off a player, you want it to be someone who can be subtle in his tanking, not someone who did what Wilson did tonight and did everything but score for the Kings. Took terrible shots, threw ridiculous passes, made stupid gambles, was selish as can be in trying to force up garabge to prove that he wasn't garbage, and doing exactly the opposite of course.. Just pathetic and if the more venemous Knicks fans want to mug him for his wallet to get back their ticket money on the way home it would be fitting.
 
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Bricklayer

Don't Make Me Use The Bat
#3
Hawes ( INC ) -- finally in in the third quarter, immediately threw up a bad shot -- still has no concept of shot selection -- and then was going to be forced into another one against the shotclock before being bailed out by Randolph on the play that saw the dufus get thrown out. In any case, only three minutes, and while its been a good long while since he did anything to argue for anything MORE than three minutes, if he can't even beat that in a blowout win against maybe the second worst team in the league then he's just basically out of the rotation and on the bench.

Robinson ( B ) -- gave almost nothing in the first half, but Zeke turned to him in desperation in the second half looking for some energy, and he largely delivered. Came in and gave the Knicks a bit of life in the third, and while most of it was basically one on one work and it stillaccomplished little on the scoreboard, it was at least a bit of life. He and Marbury were the only things keeping it under 20. But at no point did they do enough to make the Knicks feel remotely threatening.

Thomas ( INC ) -- a couple of brief cameos in which Kenny managed to successfully foul several Knicks. I was very proud.

Rose ( INC ) -- cameo, did little, but no less than others
Jones ( INC ) -- nothing when inserted in the third
Balkman ( INC ) -- finally in out of Isiah's doghouse in the 4th wiht the game nearly decided, and immediately canned a three and followed it up with a second hoop and some hustle. Lucky for the Knicks he did not get another minute or two, or I may actually have had to give one otheir players an A- or so.


Theus ( ) --

Zeke ( ) -- wonderful substitution of Chandler for Marbury in the 4th may have taken the cake here, but it was another pathetic performance by the Knicks while a apralyzed Isiah sits in one place expressinless and doing aboslutely nothing but chewing his fingernails while the Garden falls down around him. Really quite an amazing performance. I want no part of coaching those turds, but I think as soon as I get back I will have to shoot James Dolan an e-mail offering my services as GM. It could not hurt.
 
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CruzDude

Senior Member sharing a brew with bajaden
#8
Significant in this game was the Kings "D". Multiple times the NY MSG on-air guys (Walt Frazier and Mike Breem) complimented the Kings on playing defense, good defense and throughout 3-1/2 quarters as well. they also kept reminding everyone that the "4" best Kings players were not even suited up!! Four??? 4? I know Bibbs, Kevin and RonRon, but who was their "4th best guy on the team?" SAR ! ! ! ! arrgggghhhh. I went and beat my head on my longboard when I heard that (thank goodness it's a SoftTop). But what the hey, their view as they only see the Kings twice a year.

And they too marveled at Salmons "career night" (as did I, but, well it WAS the knicks (lowercase on purpose)). Dhantay shows flashes of what he can do especially on defense but a bit impatient: trying to show enough to stick around.
 

VF21

Super Moderator Emeritus
SME
#9
"I believe that one day we will win a championship here," Thomas said before the game. "And I believe a couple of these guys will be a part of that. And I believe I'll be a part of that."
I believe in the Easter bunny, the tooth fairy, Santa Claus and the Great Pumpkin.

All things considered, I think my beliefs are much more grounded than poor Isiah Thomas.
 

VF21

Super Moderator Emeritus
SME
#10
I think I've hit on the real problem of the Knicks. If you look closely, you'll see that about half the team thought they were on the road! No wonder they played differently...

:p

Good luck with that email to Dolan, Brick. I double-dog dare you to do it!!!
 
#11
wow i thought that Isiah couldn't deep himself deeper

Sports Illustrated -
Isiah Thomas is still talking about winning championships -- with many of the same players that currently comprise one of the worst teams in the NBA.

And the same coach.

"I know people will laugh even more at me, but I'm hell bent on getting this accomplished and making sure that we get it done," Thomas said Wednesday night the New York Knicks ' 107-97 loss to the Sacramento Kings . "And I'm not leaving until we get it done
 
#12
Wow. I actually had no idea the Knicks were THIS bad. I don't think I've seen a stinkier team in many years. It's like they're trying to lose. Love the chants from the crowd "FIRE ISAIAH!"

Well, thanks for the road win anyway! I'll take it.
 
#13
I went and beat my head on my longboard when I heard that (thank goodness it's a SoftTop)
Soft Top.....your head or the board? ;)

It was pathetic to watch the Knicks and their coach. No fans deserve that. Most of the game, I was just feeling sorry for them.:(
 

VF21

Super Moderator Emeritus
SME
#14
wow i thought that Isiah couldn't deep himself deeper

Sports Illustrated -
Isiah Thomas is still talking about winning championships -- with many of the same players that currently comprise one of the worst teams in the NBA.

And the same coach.

"I know people will laugh even more at me, but I'm hell bent on getting this accomplished and making sure that we get it done," Thomas said Wednesday night the New York Knicks ' 107-97 loss to the Sacramento Kings . "And I'm not leaving until we get it done
This is now crossing over into Scaryville. IT is presenting symptoms of total disconnection with reality. I don't know all the clinical terms but there's something not right with him. There were a couple of times last night when the camera flashed on him and he had a look that was almost bone-chilling. I honestly think the dude is living in a different world - and that world doesn't even have "reality" in its vocabulary.

No wonder Dolan looked so depressed. He's dealing with all those problems and a coach who has arguably gone insane.
 
#15
I don't know all the clinical terms but there's something not right with him.
ICD-9:
297.1: Delusional disorder; Grandiose Type (often referred to as megalomaniac)

Prognosis: poor; getting the person to seek mental health treatment is very difficult. the disorder is marked by very poor insight and the delusion is held with extraordinary conviction. As a result, any attempt at contradiction is met with anger and disdain.
 
#16
What I don't get is why Dolan gave him a contract extension during last season. Dolan seems to be nuts, not caring or delusional.:confused:

What was scary to me is that IT is GM and coach. He recently decided (as GM, I guess) the coaching situation needed reviewing and then announced that he was satisfied with the direction of the coaching. :eek: Nice to be able to rate your own performance as fine. :p
 

VF21

Super Moderator Emeritus
SME
#17
ICD-9:
297.1: Delusional disorder; Grandiose Type (often referred to as megalomaniac)

Prognosis: poor; getting the person to seek mental health treatment is very difficult. the disorder is marked by very poor insight and the delusion is held with extraordinary conviction. As a result, any attempt at contradiction is met with anger and disdain.
Whoa. They might as well have a picture of IT next to the definition. That is really more than a little unsettling...

Thanks for the info. I feel even more sorry for the Knicks fans now. They're living the worst part of the "Eddie" movie and there's no "Whoopi" on the horizon...
 

Glenn

Hall of Famer
#18
ICD-9:
297.1: Delusional disorder; Grandiose Type (often referred to as megalomaniac)

Prognosis: poor; getting the person to seek mental health treatment is very difficult. the disorder is marked by very poor insight and the delusion is held with extraordinary conviction. As a result, any attempt at contradiction is met with anger and disdain.
Bingo! We can ignore most people with this type of disorder but some achieve great power and can cause a lot of problems. Treatment is impossible as it is nothing that responds to medications and certainly these people don't seek help for talking therapy. It's not so uncommon.
 
#19
I was listening to the Grant show and heard that Mike Bibby might return next week. Also, heard from Grant that he thinks Mike Bibby will be traded before the trade deadline.
 
#20
I was listening to the Grant show and heard that Mike Bibby might return next week. Also, heard from Grant that he thinks Mike Bibby will be traded before the trade deadline.
He always says that, plus that Artest will be traded before the deadline. He's got a good chance of being right, tho IMHO. Wonder if Cleveland is still interested in Bibby? They suck at this point, so we might watch tomorrow's game with scouting in mind. Who do we want that Cleveland has on its roster?:eek: OK, we'll take LeBron.
 

Entity

Hall of Famer
#21
I was listening to the Grant show and heard that Mike Bibby might return next week. Also, heard from Grant that he thinks Mike Bibby will be traded before the trade deadline.

My only problem with that is we are not going to get better because of it. We aren't going to get a better pg from it and we are far away from getting one of the top pg's in the draft. We may get an expiring which will leave us still slightly over the cap next season so going after a FA pg is out of the question. Unless you guys think Beno is the starting pg of the future. Also to further raise our salary if we do indeed think Beno is the guy. He is FA this summer as well so we would have to pay him and his agent would have a great angle because we have nowhere else to go. So imagine us paying Beno 30 to 40 mil over 5 years.
 

Bricklayer

Don't Make Me Use The Bat
#22
My only problem with that is we are not going to get better because of it. We aren't going to get a better pg from it and we are far away from getting one of the top pg's in the draft. We may get an expiring which will leave us still slightly over the cap next season so going after a FA pg is out of the question. Unless you guys think Beno is the starting pg of the future. Also to further raise our salary if we do indeed think Beno is the guy. He is FA this summer as well so we would have to pay him and his agent would have a great angle because we have nowhere else to go. So imagine us paying Beno 30 to 40 mil over 5 years.

We will have to pay Beno, but there is no $30 to $40 mil over 5 years unless there is competition at those levels, which there almost surely will not be (barring somebody really desperate). A much surer way to lose him is to bump him back to the bench behind Bibby so that he hits the market this summer looking for a bigger role.

As for Beno being the guy -- probably not. But he's good enough for right now, for the rebuild. He's a roleplayer, he holds the position down, does the steady things, and stays out of the way of any emerging stars you might have. And because he's a complimentary player, he actually might have more possible ways to fit into an eventual contender than a guy who needs a lot of shots. Roleplaying starter, solid backup, 1/2 off the bench, whatever. Beno's a much better value for us at this point than a high priced relatively high maintenance sportscar like Bibby. We're not on the autobahn any longer -- we're just trying to toodle around the city with as few problems as possible at this point
 

Kingster

Hall of Famer
#23
I wish David Stern was all powerful and he could just take over the Knicks like a third world despot taking over the oil industry. Cancel all Knick contracts, fire Thomas, and get rid of that huge embarrasment called the NY Knicks. They are an abomination to the NBA.
 
#25
ICD-9:
297.1: Delusional disorder; Grandiose Type (often referred to as megalomaniac)

Prognosis: poor; getting the person to seek mental health treatment is very difficult. the disorder is marked by very poor insight and the delusion is held with extraordinary conviction. As a result, any attempt at contradiction is met with anger and disdain.
LOL you put a diagnosis code in there but no CPT.. What's the deal? :D
 
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