[Grades] Grades v. Jazz 3/30/12

[bluntsnbball]

I agree about IT He's a rookie and he's being judged by many like a 3 or 4 year vet. I'm not willing to put a limit on how good he can be at this point in his career.

The killer for many is that they had dreams of a very big physical team with Dalembert at center and Tyreke at pg and a big 2, maybe Thompson at pf and a Donte, a big 3. Then Dalembert was traded; Hayes replaced him. Then Greene didn't pan out out at the 3. Then IT replaced Tyreke. All of a sudden you have the team becoming much smaller. Not exactly what they had in mind. Unfortunately, I think the undercurrent of resentment about that is foisted upon IT. It's not his fault that he's better at 5'9" than Tyreke at 6'5". It's not his fault that Tyreke hasn't developed a jump shot. But that's just the way it is.

Thats a strong statement right there and i entirely disagree that IT is better than Tyreke. They both are better than the other in some categories but overall Reke is likely the more talented and versatile player, he just hasnt found his role yet due to numerous reasons.

I like...no i LOVE Thomas and the energy and skill that he brings and i honestly dont see his height as a big enough reason to upgrade the PG position. But can we please try playing reke at SG before we call him a bust? He's been playing out of position since he first put on a kings uniform and you cant expect a player to thrive in that type of situation. Sometimes its just not easy to make a player into something he's not.

He's not a PG, so in that sense IT is the better PG, but lets not get carried away here and say IT is overall better than Reke.

 

[Gary]

At this point why would you want to bench MT and for Evans you say? No thanks As I wrote Give Evans free reign over the second unit. (or trade him)

Because Evans is overall a better all round player than Thornton. Not to mention I would rather see if Evans could fit with the team in a starting role rather than a bench role. The team did well with Evans off the bench, but you can't have Evans coming off the bench forever. He's too much of an individual talent for to come off the bench. If he cannot find a niche with the starting unit at SG then we probably look at offers from other teams for Evans. I would rather we figure out NOW if Evans could grow with this team than drag it on for 4-5 more years. Why? Because if we waited 4-5 more years we would be into his second contract and he might be hard to unload.

 

[Gary]

That is a load of BS. Its kind of laughable to read aloud.

He should have put "better PG", because IT is a better PG than Evans is. Well Evans isn't really a PG so I guess I am comparing apples to oranges. Evans is the better all around talent though.

I want to find out if Evans is Carmello Anthony though before we think about extending him. Tremendous individual talent but does nothing for the team in the terms of W/L that a decent roleplayer could do.

AND BTW, you and Slim are high if you want to look at trading Thomas. He's a perfect player off the bench if we found a better PG down the road.

 

[Spike]

AND BTW, you and Slim are high if you want to look at trading Thomas. He's a perfect player off the bench if we found a better PG down the road.

Count me as a stoner then too, please.

 

[Mr. S£im Citrus]

He should have put "better PG", because IT is a better PG than Evans is. Well Evans isn't really a PG so I guess I am comparing apples to oranges. Evans is the better all around talent though.

I want to find out if Evans is Carmello Anthony though before we think about extending him. Tremendous individual talent but does nothing for the team in the terms of W/L that a decent roleplayer could do.

AND BTW, you and Slim are high if you want to look at trading Thomas. He's a perfect player off the bench if we found a better PG down the road.

If anything, I was calling Dembonez's bluff. He said that I don't understand what other teams would give up for Thomas. So, tell me what they'd give up?

 

[Heuge]

AND BTW, you and Slim are high if you want to look at trading Thomas. He's a perfect player off the bench if we found a better PG down the road.

I would love to see what others would offer.

Fact is, IT is replaceable. He has played alright as a PG. His stats are nice, and his control of the offense has been better then expected. We are getting owned defensively and it has alot to do with the height we are giving up at the guard position.
Further, ITs presence is stunting the growth of more important players with higher ceilings. Reke being one of them. Keep in mind the coaching chaos this player has had to work with. He is not one of your higher IQ players to be sure, but with the right coaching and right guard pairing he could be a nightmare for other teams pgs. Now we have pushed him way out of position. Jimmer, the 10th pick in the draft is getting the minutes of a player like the 60th pick in the draft. (All that said, I hated the Jimmer pick and trade.) I would argue that Jimmer's ceiling is higher then IT simply because of his extreme giftedness to shoot the rock. ONe cannot discount that he is 6 inches taller then IT as well.

There are plenty of non-stoner reasons to at least listen to offers of other teams.

 

[Gary]

I would love to see what others would offer.

Fact is, IT is replaceable. He has played alright as a PG. His stats are nice, and his control of the offense has been better then expected. We are getting owned defensively and it has alot to do with the height we are giving up at the guard position.
Further, ITs presence is stunting the growth of more important players with higher ceilings. Reke being one of them. Keep in mind the coaching chaos this player has had to work with. He is not one of your higher IQ players to be sure, but with the right coaching and right guard pairing he could be a nightmare for other teams pgs. Now we have pushed him way out of position. Jimmer, the 10th pick in the draft is getting the minutes of a player like the 60th pick in the draft. (All that said, I hated the Jimmer pick and trade.)

There are plenty of non-stoner reasons to at least listen to offers of other teams.

Fair enough.. I, for one, wouldn't actively shop him at least until we found a PG that could run the offense as good as he could. I have to sit through most of the home Kings games (not tonight ) and I wouldn't want to go through the crap I went through at the start of the year. Or should I say I wouldn't want to spend my money on that.

 

[Dembonez]

If NBA gms knew what they know about IT now, he would have been a lottery pick and if they knew what they know about Jimmer now, he would have been the fortunate to be the sixtieth pick. This notion that IT should be benched or traded because he is short is insane! Yes he is short, but even despite that, he is a top 5 rookie. The idea of trading IT just continues to prove my point that Kings fans are clearly not viewing this team like outside fans do. Point guards aren't dime a dozen, and IMO, when you get a good young one that's all heart, that is a team player, that has plenty of potential to improve, you don't just get rid of him. You certainly don't bench him because you are holding on to the hope that tyreke will turn into Carmelo Anthony. You want to talk about a ceiling? That's a ceiling, a Carmelo situation where one star's ineptitudes consistently weigh your franchises hopes of winning playoff games down. The kings have had great success in the past with depth of talent and team ball. That's the direction I would go, I would run from this current king ball as fast as I possibly could.

 

[Capt. Factorial]

If NBA gms knew what they know about IT now, he would have been a lottery pick

This is possibly true. IT has shown a lot more than people expected. However, a lot of the picks at the top of the draft are made for potential on guys who are clearly not finished products coming into the draft. Many of these guys (for two examples, Tristan Thompson or Jan Vesely) have not had as much success in their rookie years as Thomas. But their lack of production is not nearly the surprise that IT's production has been. It will be several more years before one can possibly say that, in hindsight, IT would have been a better pick than say Thompson. I think he'd be a first rounder in a re-draft today, but I'm not convinced he'd break the lottery. I'd put him between 10 and 20.

and if they knew what they know about Jimmer now, he would have been the fortunate to be the sixtieth pick.

This is ludicrous. Jimmer has an outstanding skill - shooting - that is quite draftable. He's also a pretty good passer. He has two major deficiencies - dribbling and defense - that were known about when he was drafted. Clearly we felt that his ballhandling could improve with work and that his lateral quickness (#1 at the combine) would allow him to learn to play adequate defense. It's far too early to give up on him, and I think he is making improvements. Would he go #10 if the draft were held over now? Maybe not. But there's still no way he would fall out of the first round. He's just too good of a shooter.

 

[bajaden]

If NBA gms knew what they know about IT now, he would have been a lottery pick and if they knew what they know about Jimmer now, he would have been the fortunate to be the sixtieth pick. This notion that IT should be benched or traded because he is short is insane! Yes he is short, but even despite that, he is a top 5 rookie. The idea of trading IT just continues to prove my point that Kings fans are clearly not viewing this team like outside fans do. Point guards aren't dime a dozen, and IMO, when you get a good young one that's all heart, that is a team player, that has plenty of potential to improve, you don't just get rid of him. You certainly don't bench him because you are holding on to the hope that tyreke will turn into Carmelo Anthony. You want to talk about a ceiling? That's a ceiling, a Carmelo situation where one star's ineptitudes consistently weigh your franchises hopes of winning playoff games down. The kings have had great success in the past with depth of talent and team ball. That's the direction I would go, I would run from this current king ball as fast as I possibly could.

Exactly which style of Kings ball are you running away from? Strikes me, there have been many of late. Been a lot of different coaches as well. Somehow I think the two go hand in hand. Personally, I've always been a fan of the motion offense. Don't particularly care which one. They're all similar. But to run that type of offense, you need personnel that can run it. Some of our players fit well into that system, and some don't. Not saying they all couldn't play that way, its just not their strength.

The beauty of the motion offense, is that you don't really need a playmaking PG. Thats why Fisher was able to play for the Lakers and be effective at the PG position. However, you do need a PG that can hit the open shot from the outside. Like Fisher! Like Bibby! And thats where the rub comes on our team. Tyreke, at least at the moment, can't! Tyreke fits better in a dribble drive type of offense, similar to the one Calapari runs at Kentucky. Nothing wrong with that style either. But it also has its drawbacks. And its not my favorite.

As far as IT goes, I'm not about to tell anyone that he can't make it in the NBA as a starting PG. He probably can! Question is, can he lead you to a championship? The odds are against him in that regard. Playoff basketball is halfcourt basketball, and in that situation, IT is going to be posted up over and over again. One of the disadvantages of being small for your position. Maybe he can balance it out at the other end of the floor, but once again, the odds are against him.

But, as we're a large stone's throw from worrying about a championship, I see no reason to change until a better option comes along, if it ever does. Or, the powers that be, whoever they are, decide that Tyreke is still the best overall option there. The latter doesn't appear likely to happen. At least as long as Smart is the coach. And thats not mean't as a criticism. Just a fact!

By the way, I don't think its necessary to demean Jimmer in order to praise IT. The jury is still out on Jimmer. Its hardly fair to pass judgement based on two thirds of a regular season, with very little training camp, 2 exhibition games, and a coaching change 7 games into the season. I know everyone expects excellence from these players right off the bat. But thats not how it works. These guys are human, just like us. They have good days and bad days just like us. The difference is, when you have a bad day, its just a bad day that few know about. If they have a bad day, its seen on television and printed in the local newspaper the next day. Of course they get paid the big bucks as compensation.

Oh, by the way, who is it that hopes Tyreke turns into Melo. I sure don't. First off, I'm one of those wierd guys that doesn't like Melo. Secondly, its not possible, so why would I wish for the impossible. Just an exercise in futility. Now Dwayne Wade on the other hand is more reasonable, and perhaps even more lofty. But at least were comparing players with similar styles and talents, even if they're not completely equal. Personally I've never liked comparing players to one another. I'll be happy if Tyreke turns out to be a player that people compare other players to.