[Grades] Grades v. Jazz 3/22/12

[Bricklayer]

We lost an immensely entertaining game. Ton of good, ton of bad -- I don't even know how I am going to be able to grade some of these guys (Cousins for instance?). But it was a fun, competitive heartbreaker where our, get this, youth and inattention to detail finally doomed us in the end. But it was a wild ride getting there and there were a lot of positives along the way. Made you want to pull this one off as much as any game in a long time.

Oh, and of course it was all Reke's fault.

Theme will be something sciencey. Been meaning to do one of those for a while now.

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Salmons ( C- ) -- well in his first game after Reke offered to come off the bench because John was hot, John responded with a mighty 7pt effort. In his second game, it was down to 1pt. On 0-4 shooting. In 33 minutes. Now you will notice the grade was not an F, which may seem odd since you would have had to bench Bruce Bowen himself if he was only going to score 1pt a night for you in starters minutes. And to be sure John's offensive game was ugly to the point that some of his random attempts were effectively turnovers at critical times (ironically his only point of the night came on a good looking but highly questionable 1 on 1 move in the late 3rd involving in which he looked a lot like Reke with a crossover and spin move into the paint that drew the foul). Cut the lead to 7....just before John went down to the other end and made the critical error losing Hayward, and then fouling him on the +1 play to put us back down 10 going into the 4th. Took a silly 1 on 1 take after we'd finally got our lead that just came out of left field and had no hope at all. Why didn't I give him an F again? Oh that's right -- the passing. When not throwing up random 1 on 1 garbage, John was still working in the teamwide passing mode of late, and notched 6 assists including a nice alley oop to Thornton eartly in the game. He was also part (albeit not exactly the key part) of a hopeful actually full sized NBA crew Coach Smart experimented with in the second half, wtih Reke at PG and Cisco and Salmons at the 2 and 3. Along with Cousins and JT/Hayes this was the group late that was able to squeeze the Jazz so much on defense. So did John do anything himself? Not so much. Did he help others do things? Maybe. Kinda. He passed and defended, and if he was spectacular at neither he still had some role to play.

The Cambrian -- so, I consider wikipedia the greatest human invention since chocolate, and if drawn on over there for one topic, I will often get caught up surfing from one link in an entry to another entry, then from a link inside it to another entry and so on and so on in long chains of largely worthless, but still interesting data download. Sometime back in the winter I got on one of those that started with The Cambrian Period -- the era in Earth's history stretching from 542 millin years ago (mya) to 488mya. The Cambrian is a famous and key era in history because it was when we really started to see an explosion of large complex lifeforms. Giant arthopods, this was the era of the trilobyte etc. (the apperance of the trilobytes is in fact traditionally considerd its earlier border). The Earth warmed up enormously during this period as when it started the super-continent Gondwana (one of several supercontents that formed at various times in history due to plate tectonics) was sitting right over the South pole and cutting off polar ocean currents and helping create what is called a "snowball Earth" with cold temperatures on land, but as the supercontinent began to break up and head north during the period, the temperatures began to rise.

Thompson ( B ) -- in the early going it looked like hey, maybe JT was the new franchise player as he raced off to an 11pt 6reb start while Cousins and MT strugggled, and of course Reke was off on the bench being lazy and making us selfish and probably sacrificing cute little baby animals too. JT didn't get anything going after returning late in the half, but emerged again in the third with great, if not always effective, hustle play picking up floor burns nd probably a few bruises along the way. He and Cousins were just comically dominating the Jazz on the offensive glass (18 offensive rebs between just the two of them!) but they both struggled all night long to convert those finishes inside. Maybe out for too long in the 4th with Hayes playing well, but finally back in the final 4 minutes. Unfortunately after 19pts and 15rebs of hustle and boardwork, the thing that is goign to be rememberd is JT stepping to the line with less thna 2 minutes to go in a tied game...and missing both FTs. The Jazz went down the other way and scored and that right there was the turning point in the final minutes that set up our loss. HAVE to hit those. At least split them. 'Twas the little things that in the end made the difference for us this time. Sprained his ankle on our last defensive possession as well.

The Ediacaran -- now what really caught my attention was that back at the earlier (542mya) barrier of the Cambrian, all of a sudden I noticed the presence of an entirely new period called the "Ediacaran" which I had never heard of before (stretching from 630mya to 543mya). Reason for that: when I was learning this stuff there was no Ediacaran Period. It was only designated as such in 2004 after continuing discoveries allowed them to define a new Period (most of the great time Periods back then are marked as such by sudden changes in the fossil record, with sudden extinction events (like the dinosaur's great meteor) marking the boundaries). The thing that makes this such an interesting Period now that its been defined, is that this is the era when the oldest known multicellular organisms have been found. The start of non-microbial life. But unlike the Cambrian when the trilobytes and their ilk arrivesd sporting shells that could be nicely fossilized for us, the Edicaran life was all still soft and strange to modern standards. Jellyfish type things, things like amorphhous bags, fronds, and if you're lucky maybe a segmented worm or two. Immensely primitive stuff, but still such a huge and critical advancement from single celled life. As an aside, as the very first large lifeforms to hit the fossil record occurred during this Period, its older boundary can't be determined by reference to the fossil record, since there was none. Instead the earlier boundary is deteremined by a change in the chemical composition of the rocks as the Marinoan Ice Age ended(see below).

Cousins ( C? ) -- some people have to dream, dream the impossible dream!..I have to grade, grade the impossible grade! What an outing. 9-28 shooting -- 28! 10 offensive rebounsds (grabbing many of those 19 missed shots), 22pts 18rebs overal, terrible first half defense on Big Al, one impossible move for a big man to pull off (see below)...sigh. Struggled from the start in this one as Big Al went t work and really pretty effortlessly scored over him. Meanwhile the other way Cousins was bothered by both Al and Favors's shotblocking, but more than that just could. Not. Finish. Time and time again he flipped up and tapped up the ball, and time and time agian it rolled off. But thing is that he was just relentless in pursuing those misses as he and JT climbed all over the glass chasing loose balls, but were only rarely rewarded wth a finsih. On one crazy possession in the early third I think we literally grabbed SEVEN offensive rebounds (on one possession!) as we missed bunny after bunny but just coming up with the ball until we got it to fall . Threw in some missed FTs again as well as a gremlin appears to have slipped into his stroke. And was grouchy and into with the refs -- who were let's say letting them play, with Devin Harris again (Devin Harris?), and basically all comers. Finally maybe started to settle down in the second half when, unable to hit from 2 feet, he instead retreated ouiisde and began to rain 18 foot midrange jumpers on the Jazz, who I am sure were as confused as anybody at that point. Then just for a topper decided to morph into "Magic Cousins" first leading the break and dising it off nciely to Thorton. Then making an unbelievable open court take on the 1 on 3 break, dribbling behind his back to beat all three Jazz defenders and laying it in. At 6'11" 270lbs. May have finally tired as he started coming up short with those jumpers as the 4th went along and had two balls ripped from his hands in the last two minutes as we just didn't do the little things to finish this one off. Hard to say if he made a defenwsive mistake on the final defensive play that cost us the game. He left Big Al to come help on Harris, thus leaving Big Al wide open for the easy offensive board and layin. I don't think that was a wise decision given that, well, its Devin Harris taking a tough shot. Let him miss it, grab the board, we win. But normally somebody else is suppsoed to rotate down and hop in front of Jeffrson, and nobody did. Personally I think it was Tyreke's fauly even though he had guarded the inboounder and was 20feet away at the time. So reaching wildly on this grade...C?

 

[Bricklayer]

Thornton ( C ) -- so coming off three straight huge nights Marcus comes out, lays an egg, then tries to redeem himself by once again stepping up in the clutch. Was being hawked by several pretty good defenders, but hell, last game out he dropped 31 on Tony Allen, so I doubt that was the excuse. Just did not get terribly involved, and never was in any sort of rhythm. Struggled along with DeMarcus in the early going, sat out most of the second, and returned in the third as a largely invisible man. Did have one nice pass to JT on the alley oop. Got injury added to insult when he was pulled out of the air and fouled at the 2:15 mark (and only split the pair -- JTs pair of misses 30 seconds later stand out more but if Marcus, a much better FT shooter, just hits both, we are tied at the end instead of losing by 1). Then, after after being cold all game suddenly stepped up and canned the huge three to give us the lead with 30 seconds to go. And out of the timeout with 8 seconds to go came up with a tough tough drive to take the lead back with 4 seconds to go -- by all rights it should have been the game winning play. So again, what to do with a grade? A D game for Marcu, really doing nothing, then suddenly he tries to save us in the end.

Marinoan Ice Age -- so, about that ice age. Going to get back to the Ediacaran in a second on IT's grade. But about that Marinoan Ice Age I mentioend. Coming out of it was what is generally considered the beginning of the Ediacaran Period. And it was something to come out of. Because you see we are talking about the greatest Ice Age in the history of the planet. The entire period before the Edicaran is called the Cryogenian Period. And not surprisingly that means it was COLD. The Cryogenian period lasted for about 220 million years (850mya to 630mya), during which time evidence suggests the land was repeatedly covered by sheets of Ice 1 to 2 km . Not just some of the land. The ENTIRE land. Basically the whole planet turned inot Antartica. And this happened again and again, and is the source of the "Snowball Earth" title. The last and greatest of these Ice Ages was the Marinoan And this wasn't any cute and cuddly Pixar ice age with gooffy little furry creatures running around having adventures. This was basically a worldwide superglacier that lasted for 15 million years. Hence again the importance of the Ediacaran as the first time that our world does not look like a totally inhospitable place to us, its latest inhabitants.

Thomas ( C+ ) -- got off to a strong start while the two T's (IT and JT) did what the two Marcuses (Marcus and DeMarcus) could not in the early going but did not feel he had as good of a control of the game this time out. Our defense was again horrid in the early going here -- it was funny listening to the Jazz announcers' bemused reaction to being able to score so many points so easily -- sounded like it had never happedned to them before -- and ITs size compared to the Jazz guards was a factor in that. Did not stop him on the glass however, where he came up with a couple of strong first haldf rebounds going in amongst the trees, including a huge offensive rebound over Big Al's back in the late first. With us again playing lsitlesslessly on defense was subbed out in t mid third in favor of Reke, as our smallball coach abruptly turned to full sized lineups to turn the game and aqueeze the Jazz defensively. Did not return until the final 4 minutes of the 4th to direct things down the stretch, but did not do anything down the stretch, and missed a big three at the 40 second mark with us down 2.

Ediocara Biota -- so, back to the Ediacara. And that pic above? One of the very earliest mutlicellular animals on Earth. Maybe. You see, there is debate about nearly everything involving Ediacaran life. It was life unlike any seen since, and as the Cambrian started it suddenly died off, perhaps outcompeted or just flat fed upon by the hard shelled more advanced Cambrian critters. There is in fact considerable doubt if the Ediacaran creatures even have any modern descendants -- all of the primitive jellies and sacs and bags may have basically been an early faield experiment in multicellular life wiped out by the superior Cambrian types. They don't even know if they had all the characteristics of modern animal life. They could have been more plantish. But they were alive, whatever they were. 600 million years ago they were alive, and they left traces for us to find and wonder about.

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Bench

Hayes ( B- ) -- nothing in his second quarter stint, except one of his forced takes and when he intiitally struggled to control the middle during hsi second stint after Cousins went to rest in the early 4th, it looked like it might be another empty outing. But then Cousins returned for JT, and a funny thing happend, as Chuck locked in on Big Al and for the next 6 minutes or so we played outstanding defense, squishig the Jazz and holding them to 1 FG in the entire quarter until the final two minutes. Chcuk's defensive rebounding during the quarter was also strong as he chased down balls out of his area to end Jazz possessions. And ironically it was Chuck Hayes, he of the high school offensive repertoire, who hit the running hook to finally retie the game in the mid-4th (we were coming out of a timeoput, so I can ony assume we actually drew that up, maybe intending to surprise them, which we did). So what to do with this. In the end, its still jut 2pts and 4rebs (and 3 ast). But the grade I think reflects this time out playing the role he was brought here to play.

Treptichnus pedum -- that's right, Treptichnus pedum baby. Good scientifc name. Very latiny and meaningless to the general public. So what was Treptichnus pedum? Well remember the way I said that the great periods back there are usually so designated because of changes in the fossil record? Well Treptichnus pedum is one of the changes that paleontologists look for to mark the end of the Ediacaran and beginngin of the Cambrian. Except we don't even know what it looked like. See that picture above? That's what we keep on finding. Multipart burrows in a particular pattern that some soft bodied critter made before dying and disappearing. Like you dying, but your house still standing as testimony that you once lived. In any case, they suddenly pop up at the end of the Ediacaran, and once you see them, then the rocks above are going to be part of the Cambrian.

Evans ( A ) -- took a few minutes to get warmed up, but once he did....oh boy. Just absolutely unstoppable all night long to the hoop, getting there again and again on the break, on cuts, in the halfcourt. I think on the entire evening there were 3 jumpers, one of them in one of those incompetent end of the quarter iso plays we always run. And he finsihed nearly everything on his way to 25pts in 29min on 11-17 shooting. Since he decided to largely just quit taking jumpers his to the basket game has been epic as he is making a run at leading the league in attempts at the rim for the second time in three years -- probably won't catch Greg Monroe who he trails by .5 shots a game a game, but is .1 shots a game behind Dwight and .2 behind Blake for 2nd in the league. And its not hurting his FG% either as he's shooting .483 in March. Was aggressive and disruptive on defense and the boards as well, and as soon as he did get the ball in any setting he was off to the races and right to the rim again. Added a nice falling down assist to DeMarcus inside. Nifty little 5-5 first half/2nd quarter for 12 points. On in the third quarter in place of IT, perhaps for defensive purposes, and immediately hit a tough fallaway falling down after taking a hard bump inside. Then led the break and set up MT on the break to make the lead 6 again. Split a pair of FTs to finaly give us the lead back in the mid 4th. Made some great plays during the stretch tun includig a ncie steal, a big hustle boarding attempt causing Hayward to knock it out of bound, and a simply brilliant behind the back attempt for the +1 at the 3:15 mark...but missed his second straight FT as we as a team missed 4 or 5 down the stretch in a game we lost by 1. Despite the top notch play was pondering whether or not to give him an F, because he is lazy and selfish and plays losing basketball and makes the team play losing basketball, and he stole my pop tart, and...just in general us losing was his fault somehow. I just know it.

 

[Bricklayer]

Greene ( C+ ) -- played good defense after entering, but ended his stint with a bad forced shot with nobody under to rebound in the late 2nd. There was some story to this game of our roliest roleplayers all almost completely abandoning offense but finally stiffening our defense -- Donte, Hayes, Cisco and Salmons combined for 5pts in 77min of play, and yet all contributed on the other side of the ball.

Priapulida -- that's right -- Priapulida! Say it 5 times fast. Roughly translated = big ugly worm thingie. Only these guys aren't prehistoric. So how do they fit in to my little story? Well just thusly: Those worm tracks above, the Treptichnus pedum? Well in what is probably no coincidence at all they are almost identical to the worm tracks left by modern Priapulida! These muck suckers dig around in the ocean floor, sucking in nutrients and simple organisms. And they are incredibly ancient, with their family tree dating all the way back to the middle Cambrian when they were actually presumed to be major predators. Which puts them within about 30 million years of the time of the Treptichnus pedum tracks. Follow the little bouncing ball, and in all liklihood the unknown critters who made the Treptichnus pedum probably looked a heck of a lot like our modern Priapulida!, and may even have been their great great greatx1,000,000,000 grandparents.

Fredette ( C ) -- in and immediately turned the ball over again up top, but hit a three on the break in the mid 2nd, and got another one off a double screen up top as he provided some offensive support for Tyreke. Still not able to create and convert for himself otherwise and at times was just flat looking off teammates so he could take it himself. Better job rebounding than normal as well -- while he doesn't get paid to rebound his rebounding this year has been ridiculous, and he ranks 448th out of 458 NBA players in rebs/48. Tonight however he actually reacted and chased down a few. No minutes after half.

Loricifera -- what's a Loricifera? Well its a phylum of really tiny really primitive critters related to the Priapulida! In fact the Priapulida! eat these little suckers sometimes, which generally isn't very nice to do to relatives, but hey, we've all got that crazy uncle. In any case they too have been around a very very long time. But the main interest in them here is as a jumping off point for the final stop on our wiki-wandering after the next grade.

Garcia ( B- ) -- gave us very little offensively, but during both or stints gave us an active defensive presence, adn came up with two nice help blocks. Was a major factor in our late game run as for maybe the first time all year we actually played a full sized SG, and the defensive stiffened as the Jazz withered. Funny how that stuff works. Still, is only so far you can go gradewise on these 2pt efforts.

L'Atalante basin -- The L'Atalante basin is a natural phenomenon way down at the bottom of the Meditteranean Sea, 11,500 feet under the surface. Its a hypersaline brine lake sitting at the bottom of the ocean -- one of three so far disovered that they think date back 35,000 years or so. What happens is basically salt deposits from the Meditteranean ridges above them dissolved and slid down into deep ocean depressions. And this now hypersalty water sits down there 11,500 feet under the ocean, and its so salty (8x normal sea water) that it and the normal sea water above it essentially do not mix -- very salty water is much more dense than less salty water. Because of this the brine is almost totally anoxic -- it has no oxygen in it at all. Now there is about a 5 foot region just above the lake where specialized low oxygen life teems. But down in the brine lake itself its a dead zone with only very basic cell life down there of the same families that live aroudn undersea volcanic vents. But, tada!, this is where our Loricifera reenter the picture, as in 2010 they found for the first time ever 3 types of Loricifera living deep int eh dead brine -- the first multi-cellular organisms ever found that could live entirely without oxygen. And that had major implications for the development of life not only here on Earth, but potentially elsewhere in the universe. See the neato things you find out when you waste a couple of hours wiki-surfing?

 

[vikinginferno]

Some people really need to understand that coming off the bench is not necessarily a demotion at all. If he plays about the same amount of minutes, but is able to produce much better, it may be the better spot for him. He was nothing short of amazing tonight.

 

[jcwkings]

This game showed our most glaring weakness, defense(at least in quarters 1-3), but it also showed the toughness this team has to get back in the game. Missed freethrows, missed layups and bad passes on the break also let us down.

One thing that is glaringly obvious is that one of Tyreke or Thornton will have to come off the bench and play the Harden/Ginobli/Jason Terry role. The rest of our bench offers no consistent scoring. Also that second quarter allowed Tyreke to take initiative without worrying about getting Cousins or Thornton their touches. This is mostly a solution for second quarters when our starters get extended rest. No matter what either of them will end up at thirty minutes anyways. I would be inclined to start Tyreke, he is the best 2 way gaurd we have.

Also Chuck Hayes showed his worth, pretty much shut down Jefferson in the 4th.

 

[Npliam]

We lost an immensely entertaining game. Ton of good, ton of bad -- I don't even know how I am going to be able to grade some of these guys (Cousins for instance?). But it ws a fun, competitive hertbreaker where our, get this, youth and inattention to detail finally doomed us in the end. But it ws a wild ride geting there and there wwere a lot of positives along the way. Made you want to pull this one off as much as any game in a long time.

Oh, and of course it was all Reke's fault.

Theme will be something sciencey. Been meaning to do one of those for a while now.

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What a game!

 

[jcwkings]

I couldn't really vote for any option on the poll. We lost this one as a team. I was preplexed though when Smart went back to JT and IT. Hayes was doing a job on Jefferson and Tyreke's length was bothering Harris. Im sure Harris was relieved to see Isaiah back on him.

 

[Bricklayer]

Some people really need to understand that coming off the bench is not necessarily a demotion at all. If he plays about the same amount of minutes, but is able to produce much better, it may be the better spot for him. He was nothing short of amazing tonight.

No. As I mentioned in another thread you do that and you just lost your ROY in a year's time, because there will be any number of teams all too happy to start him out there when he hits free agency.

Now that said, Reke was probably thinking hey look at this, I get to handle the ball without having to fight over it with 3 other guys who want it all the time whuke I'm wrestlin gwith guys 20lbs bigger than I am.

 

[Npliam]

I think both of these franchises have bright futures.

 

[jcwkings]

No. As I mentioned in another thread you do that and you just lost your ROY in a year's time, because there will be any number of teams all too happy to start him out there when he hits free agency.

Now that said, Reke was probably thinking hey look at this, I get to handle the ball without having to fight over it with 3 other guys who want it all the time whuke I'm wrestlin gwith guys 20lbs bigger than I am.

I agree, ultimately Thornton will have to be the one to get the 6th man role. Tyreke makes an impact on both ends.

 

[The_Jamal]

No. As I mentioned in another thread you do that and you just lost your ROY in a year's time, because there will be any number of teams all too happy to start him out there when he hits free agency.

Now that said, Reke was probably thinking hey look at this, I get to handle the ball without having to fight over it with 3 other guys who want it all the time whuke I'm wrestlin gwith guys 20lbs bigger than I am.

Manu Ginobli

 

[King Baller]

Jazz got treated like the home team by the refs.

Kings gave it away with the missed plays and poor FT shooting.

Still overlooking that suckitude it was a good game and the Kings played pretty well

KB

 

[rainmaker]

Manu Ginobli

Think that works when the starters are a little better defensively. I see your point, but SA has more defensive role players in their starting 5, just like OKC, which allows Harden/Ginobili to come off the bench.

As for the poll, didn't see an option I like. I thought we lost it by neglecting defense in the first 2.5 quarters. We can't come out just planning to shoot the opponent out of the game. Have to D up, and I saw little concern in the first half on that end, and the starters set that tone. Clean that up it probably doesn't come down to a final shot.

 

[Kings Faithful]

I think both of these franchises have bright futures.

Yep, but ours is only 21 and 22 years old...

 

[rainmaker]

I think both of these franchises have bright futures.

Hayward is quite a player. That was a great pick.

 

[The_Jamal]

Think that works when the starters are a little better defensively. I see your point, but SA has more defensive role players in their starting 5, just like OKC, which allows Harden/Ginobili to come off the bench.

As for the poll, didn't see an option I like. I thought we lost it by neglecting defense in the first 2.5 quarters. We can't come out just planning to shoot the opponent out of the game. Have to D up, and I saw little concern in the first half on that end, and the starters set that tone. Clean that up it probably doesn't come down to a final shot.

The comparison between the 2 is pretty damn close and i've been looking into it closely the last few days. Both are fantastic ball-handlers/ willing passers but aren't traditional PG's. Both can play excellent perimeter defense and get to the rim at will. Once Reke adds the Manu's outside shooting ability, they essentially become the same player.

People want Thornton to fill that role, but the shoe simply doesn't fit. Thornton's game is shoot, shoot, shoot and shoot until he gets hot. He's improving his other facets of his game, but he has that selfish scorer mentality that makes him so effective.

 

[SacTownKid]

I couldn't really vote for any option on the poll. We lost this one as a team. I was preplexed though when Smart went back to JT and IT. Hayes was doing a job on Jefferson and Tyreke's length was bothering Harris. Im sure Harris was relieved to see Isaiah back on him.

You and I both. I could have sworn Hayes was brought in to match up with the Jeffersons of the world, jeez. In that 4th quarter you saw why, now he needs to play those guys more than 6 stinking minutes a game.

 

[Spok22]

Good hard fought game. Hope JT is alright tho.

 

[The_Jamal]

It was several factors why we didn't win tonight. Thornton and Cousins missing 33 shots. pee poor defense on the Utah bigs the 1st half. The refs waiting for Cousins to break his arm before calling a foul on Utah. Free Throws. It's really a sign of improvement that we had this game won until the final second with all those factors against us

 

[rainmaker]

Jason Thompson
‏ @jtthekid
Following

I'm OK Guys........Minor Sprain in My Left Ankle. Ima Get Some Treatment n Should B GOOD. #KingsAllDay

 

[Bricklayer]

Manu Ginobli

yes, he's a basketball player too.

And a late 20s/early 30s basketball player who eventually moved to the bench after he had already won several champsionships with his team, been an All Star etc. Maybe, MAYBE you could get a long time vet to do that same way -- where he had already been to the mountainntop with you, you were always going to take care of him etc. Young guy with big plans playing for a team that hasn't even sniffed .500 in 5 years? No. You're not going to keep Tyreke Evans on the bench so the likes of John Salmosn and Isaiah Thomas can continue to start. Just doesn't happen that way.

 

[ParniValjak]

yes, he's a basketball player too.

And a late 20s basketball player who eventually moved to the bench after he had already won several champsionships with his team, been an All Star etc. Maybe, MAYBE you could get a long time vet to do that same way -- where he had already been to the mountainntop with you, you were always going to take care of him etc. Young guy with big plans playing for a team that hasn't even sniffed .500 in 5 years? No. You're not going to keep Tyreke Evans on the bench so the likes of John Salmosn and Isaiah Thomas can continue to start. Just doesn't happen that way.

Unfortunately it does if you don't know what it takes to win, as is the case with us.

For every coach that's worth a pinch of salt, Tyreke is a major player along with Cousins. A bit minute player getting used to his maximum.

 

[Npliam]

Yep, but ours is only 21 and 22 years old...

Um...Hayward, Favors, Kanter and Burks are all really Young.

 

[Bricklayer]

Um...Hayward, Favors, Kanter and Burks are all really Young.

They are. But they are also far far back of our young guys. We've got three of them right on the cusp of being stars with star level productivity. Utah's guys have talent, but its still hope and a prayer type talent at this point.

 

[Kings Faithful]

Um...Hayward, Favors, Kanter and Burks are all really Young.

I find our young core of Evans, Thorton, and Cousins much more appealing than Hayward, Favors, and Burks..as good as they are.

We'd be a better team if we could add a prime Paul Milsap and Al Jefferson.

 

[Npliam]

They are. But they are also far far back of our young guys. We've got three of them right on the cusp of being stars with star level productivity. Utah's guys have talent, but its still hope and a prayer type talent at this point.

Oh Brother.

 

[Section 101]

yes, he's a basketball player too.

And a late 20s basketball player who eventually moved to the bench after he had already won several champsionships with his team, been an All Star etc. Maybe, MAYBE you could get a long time vet to do that same way -- where he had already been to the mountainntop with you, you were always going to take care of him etc. Young guy with big plans playing for a team that hasn't even sniffed .500 in 5 years? No. You're not going to keep Tyreke Evans on the bench so the likes of John Salmosn and Isaiah Thomas can continue to start. Just doesn't happen that way.

Maybe you should look stuff up before you post stats because your way off. Manu has been coming off the bench the majority of his career.

Championship years.
02-03 Games played 69 started 5. playoffs started 0
04-05 Games 74 started 74, in playoffs played 23 started 15.
06-07 games played 75 started 36. playoffs started 0.

other seasons
05-06 65 games 56 starts
10-11 80 games 79 starts.

the rest are less than half the games. He split starting with Hedo, Barry, Mason and Finely most of his career. Hill and Bogans got the starts in 09-10 Bowen and Parker were the 2 backcourt main guys. I think Manu is was better than all the guys that started over him.

Oh and Manu's production has been consistant since 04-05 with his PER ranging from 21.78 - 24-18. He's at 23.46 this year so he hasn't slowed down at all.

 

[The_Jamal]

I find our young core of Evans, Thorton, and Cousins much more appealing than Hayward, Favors, and Burks..as good as they are.

We'd be a better team if we could add a prime Paul Milsap and Al Jefferson.

eh not really. Al Jeff and Milsap need shots to be effective and are nothing more than average defenders

 

[Npliam]

I find our young core of Evans, Thorton, and Cousins much more appealing than Hayward, Favors, and Burks..as good as they are.

We'd be a better team if we could add a prime Paul Milsap and Al Jefferson.

How would they help? Neither of those guys are good defenders and there is already a shortage of shots as it is.

 

[The_Jamal]

Maybe you should look stuff up before you post stats because your way off. Manu has been coming off the bench the majority of his career.

Championship years.
02-03 Games played 69 started 5. playoffs started 0
04-05 Games 74 started 74, in playoffs played 23 started 15.
06-07 games played 75 started 36. playoffs started 0.

other seasons
05-06 65 games 56 starts
10-11 80 games 79 starts.

the rest are less than half the games. He split starting with Hedo, Barry, Mason and Finely most of his career. Hill and Bogans got the starts in 09-10 Bowen and Parker were the 2 backcourt main guys. I think Manu is was better than all the guys that started over him.

Oh and Manu's production has been consistant since 04-05 with his PER ranging from 21.78 - 24-18. He's at 23.46 this year so he hasn't slowed down at all.

A HoF career and the 2nd most important player on 2 championship teams apparently is not good enough of a ceiling for Reke