Grades v. Hornets 2/23

Which King was the most responsible for no pretty girls tonight?

  • Nocioni keeping us breathing early.

    Votes: 18 27.7%
  • Cisco holding off the blowout in the 3rd

    Votes: 7 10.8%
  • Hawes keeping us alive on the glass

    Votes: 4 6.2%
  • Kevin exploding in the 4th

    Votes: 36 55.4%

  • Total voters
    65
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Bricklayer

Don't Make Me Use The Bat
Still losing, but seriously, the cloud has lifted a bit. Something new to watch.

Theme...did not really prepare anything, so wil have to off the cuff it...so...theme tonight = Bricklayer's Favorite Philosophers. Should be very exciting.


Cisco ( B ) -- the first of our guys on this list to play one quarter for us and consider it a game. Did little in the early going before leaving with some sort of thigh thing? I dunno -- at this point with all the drama queening he's going to have show me the bloody stump of his amuputated leg before I'm going to believe it was anything serious. Predictably returned to get some points from the line. But came out firing in the third, and brought us back with a 7 point burst of scoring capped by a setup for a Hawes (I think it was) dunk inside. All of a sudden, we were back in the game. Kept the pressure mildly on the Hornets throughout the quarter with passing as much as scoring before obviously entirely handing things over to Kevin in the 4th.
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Niccolò Machiavelli -- I decided to lead off with someone colorful who's stature may be less, but fame more than some of the giants that will follow, "the ends justify the means" having become one of the most famous summations of realist political philosophy of all time. One of the classic ethics problems involves a train barreling down the tracks. There are two sets of tracks, and which track the train heads down is controlled by a switch. On the set of tracks the train is currently headed down lies a baby. On the other set of tracks lie two babies. If you are standing by the switch, what is the correct moral choice? If you do nothing, two babies die, but it is not your fault -- the train was headed that way without your doing. If you throw the switch, only one baby dies, but now it dies because of an affirmative action you have taken. Well...Machiavelli would have thrown that switch without a second's thought and sat back and had a sandwich after he was done. But he wouldn't have done it because he was psychotic and liked killing babies. He would have done it because it is better for society to have 2 babies alive and 1 dead than 1 alive and 2 dead. And hence "Machiavellian" as a synonym for selfishness or evil is not quite accurate. More accurately it is the willingness to use evil means (or whatever means) to acheive some goal. And Machiavelli himself would have identified the goal he was aiming for -- a strong, stable state -- as a good. It was a radical departure at the time it was written, centuries ahead of its time, and was of course soon banned by the church. It was clear sighted, and cold hearted. And it has begged the question ever since -- if something really matters to you, if something is that that important and the chips are down, might Machiavelli have been right in the end?

Thompson ( C- ) -- the foul problems have now become THE defining issue in Jason's rookie campaign. Was in quick foul trouble of course -- very quick foul trouble. And yet he was left in by Natt in what I thought was either a gutsy coaching move to try to teach Jason to play through the fouls or a stupid one taking a risk with a kid who has shown absolutely no ability to avoid reaching, poking, shoving, and yes, occassionally getting screwed byt he refs. Well...it turned out to be stupid (shocker) as Jason picked up his third by the 8:12 mark of the first quarter (in an improvement he apparently got the message and quit complaining so vociferously on every call). That was it for him for the entire first half, and he again picked up his 4th quickly in the 3rd quarter on a push on Chandler. And again he was left in with the fouls, and maybe it really was Natt trying to teach him to learn how to play with them. And maybe this time it even worked as Jason contributed several nice inside takes as we hung around, including a pretty post move against West, and left before nabbing his 5th. That was it though, and his non-return for the 4th had little to do with Jason, and much to do with the Natt. For that brief 3rd quarter stretch when he was actually able to play, he did some good things. But I could not go any higher on the grade for a guy who is supposed to be our starting PF but is just hack hack hacking himself into uselessness right now.
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John Stuart Mill -- perhaps my favorite philosopher, as well as one of the most brilliant men in history. The product of an early planned childhood, but one with a far higher goal than the baseball dads trying to force their tyke to become a big leaguer. JSM's dad (a noted philospher in his own right) and close family friend Jeremy Bentham (the father of the utilitarian schood of philosophical thought) took it upon themselves to try to produce a brilliant philosopher from young JSM. And it worked -- he could read greek by age 3, was reading Plato (in greek and latin of course) by 8, was writing a continuation of the Iliad by age 12 and so on. He took Bentham's pragmatic theory of utilitarianism -- simply put that the moral worth of any action is dependant on the happiness it creates amongst all people -- and gave it nuance before moving onto other things. His masterpiece "On Liberty" laid out the radical at the time proposition that society and the state should just leave you the hell alone unless you are harming somebody else with your action -- a principle still not fully accepted by some meddling factions today. Stemming from his belief in personal liberty he became an early proponent of the abolition of slavery, and through his wife, women's rights as well. His belief in freedom of speech was not only a question of liberty, but stemmed from his belief that only by being challenged by alternative belief systems could current dominant belief remain vital and not sink to the level of brainless dogma. Anyway, he was a very cool guy, and his writings resonate two centuries after he wrote them as if he just published them yesterday.

Hawes ( B ) -- quietly effective first half, although benefitted from getting matched up aginst Sean Marks for part of it -- man that Hornets crew of backup big men suck. Was not rotating well on defense, nor recovering after he showed. But had a few good finisihes and used his length to grab boards against the short and soft Hornets frontline when Tyson was out. Our one and only rebounder in the first half with nearly half our total. Started off the second half with a nice take against Chandler in the post. Controlled the glass in the thrid, and made several nice passes setting guys up. But not sure how many times he lost contact on Tyson Chandler leading to the now classic Paul to Chandler alley oop -- threatens to become this generation's Stockton to Malone pick and roll. But it was probably the same number of FGs + FTS/2 that Chandler had. Sheesh -- what a dunkfest. Had one possession late in the 4th where he missed the hook, got the ball back, missed the follow, got the ball back, and missed the follow again. Came back with another post move a minute later though. Settling in as a starting center -- good rebounding night, and he needs to board with the Natt just constantly smallballing now. But loses ticks for just not understanding the defense on that Chanlder lob all night long -- was outscored by Tyson, and all Tyson did was catch alley oops.
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David Hume -- I have realized that I have to start keeping these shorter, or I won't be done before gametime tommorow. So Hume...I did not always agree wiht him, think he was flat wrong at times, but this guy was just ****ing brilliant. No other way to put it. Once up and rolling on a topic, he was devastating. His work on miracles and the design argument (i.e. that the universe could only have resulted from a conscious design) in particular made him persona non grata with the church as he logically chewed them up and spat them out.

Martin ( B ) -- one of the ultimate what do you do with this grades. Kevin was just awful for 3/4 of this one -- not only bad, but bad as in apparently lacking effort. One time a loose ball rolled right to his feet and he could scarcely be bothered to bend over to pick it up before Hornets players went diving to the floor to snatch possession away from us -- might break a nail you know. And then after 3/4 of wandering around apparently not giving a damn, he suddenly explodes with a superhero quarter -- kind of the Salmons infection spread onward I guess. And so now what do you do? Started the game briefly trying to dribble and force in the face of pressure from the Horents wings, but it did not work, at all, and he soon quit even trying to do anything more than chuck or hand the ball off. Finally got a three, wide open courtesy of McCants in the mid 2nd. Was too small to stop Posey in the post as a SF (where he got forced while we had McCants on the floor), and didn't seem like he wanted to challenge and just settled for jumpers, which he did not hit. Got ugly in the third when we kept on going to him and going to him and except for one layup off of a nice Spencer board and feed, he came up with nothing. And then...boom! Playing possum? Playing Salmons? Who knows, but in a radical reversal of his normal pattern, after his teammates carried him the entire game he suddenly woke up in the early 4th for back to back to back 3pt plays, one on a contiuation, then a three, then another continuation. Sandwiched around an airballed three actually). He squared up Poseyt and blew right by him time and again. Every time he was oipen on the perimeter, it was a swish. Just a monster scoring quarter, and after havin 8, on 2-12 shooting no less through 3/4, he shoots 7-9 in the 4th for 24 points. Maybe it is the stamina issue again -- maybe if he tries early, he'll fade late, so he figured he would coast early and then pour it on down the stretch. Don't know. But it was strange, and nearly impossible to grade.
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Voltaire -- quick with a quip, and the smartest guy in the room, he wasn't afraid to let everyone else know it and made many enemies while fighting for civil rights and religious freedom at a time and place (the ancien régime in 18th century France) where such things were not done. He was arrested, banned, censored, and persecuted throughout his celebrated life. This is the guy who said "if God did not exist, it would be necessary to invent Him." Which did not go over well with the church as it implied that just such a thing might have happened. He is also credited with the early free speech motto "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it," although that was actually a biographer of his summing up his career. When on his deathbed he was asked to renounce the devil by a clergyman, he is supposed to have answered "Now is no time to be making new enemies."
 
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Udrih ( D+ ) -- despite the crappy final numbers actually started off this one offensively aggressive, and was driving into the Hornets defense and kicking passes (which we rarely finished). Of course CP3 repeatedly burned him on the other end, but gee, shocker. Beno was actualy trying to compete over there, but you are talking about a guy who might end up being one of the ten best to ever play his position vs. a guy who...is not. In any case was more effective than the first half numbers showed. Even in the third, when Beno's production entirely dried up, I think maybe he, or we, got under Paul's skin a little, because by the end of the quarter Paul was just squaring Beno up and trying to take him 1 on 1 -- maybe Beno annoyed him or something -- and it was slowing down the Hornets attack. So kind of taking the legendary boxer Rocky Marciano's approach to victory -- wear down you opponent by letting him pummel your face until he gets tired. This type of thing just can't earn any type of good grade -- by the end Paul was putting on a virtuoso performance almost entirely unopposed -- might as well have been in a gym by himself for all the effect Beno and BJax were having. But it felt more like the best in the game just manhandling somebody who is not more than Beno not coming to play. Sometimes the other guy is just better. A lot better.
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John Locke -- the guy who provided much of the intellectual underpinnings of the American Revolution with his writings on liberty and what he called the social contract -- he nailed truly revolutionary stuff a century before most writers were even taking up the subject. He also played yin to Thomas Hobbes' yang on the inherent nature of human beings (Hobbes' famous formulation had humans in nature experiencing a life which was nasty, butish and short, and thus they needed to be dominated by a strong state for their own sakes). Locke's view of humanity was somewhat more positive, and his work on the nature of our consciousness made him something of the great grandfather of modern educational theory and psychology.

Nocioni ( A- ) -- now he was just showing off for the home fans -- no Noc is not this good every night. Of course hell, we were the franchise that just got done watching John freaking Salmons put up nearly 20ppg, so who knows. when you suck, many things become possible that are not in the real NBA. In any case, was in early at PF in Natt's predicatable smallball response to JT's foul trouble. Tried to immediately flop on West, and the flopping was about the only thing that didn't work for him on the night. Settled in and got of to the very nice offensive start in his first game in Arco, scoring on a nice drive, then canning two threes, and coming up with a steal. Like I say, showing off, and clearly our player of the first half. After returning in the 3rd quarter, got his first three point attempt blocked by West, but came back to can another, then miss a long jumper. Contributed again early in the 4th in support of the Kevin rush, canning yet another three (no, he is not this good a 3pt shooter either) and then stealing a ball from West along the sideline to help key a run to quickly bring it from 10 down to only 1. Finally got his comeuppance for playing over his head down the stretch as remarkably West blocked not 1, but 2 more of his 3pt attempts. In fact on the night, Noc was 4-7 from 3pt land. Knicking down everything (4-4) that was not blocked, but remarkably getting THREE 3ptrs blocked in one game by West in return. Not sure I have ever seen that before.
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Spinoza -- way way ahead of his time, Spinoza was kind of the philosopher's philosopher in the mid 17th century and influenced just about everybody who came after. His argument that the concepts of "good" and "evil" are entirely relative and dependant on what brings pleasure or pain to humanity did not make him any friends with the church. When he then also declared that God and nature were one and the same thing, and that man's free will was simply an illusion caused by man understanding his desires, but not understanding why he had them, the church not surprisingly added his entire library of works to its banned books list. Always a sign that you were doing something right back in the day. As an aside he did all this while working as a lowly glasscutter in Holland, refusing all honors and offers of employment before dying young (age: 44) of a lung disaease probably brought on by breathing in glass particles.

BJax ( C+ ) -- aggressive offensively in his first stint, very energetic in another one of his grudge matches. Had a steal and open court layup and a three. In for the key mintues in the early 4th and eventually let us down by getting stupid. Committed a clear moving screen violation in the mid 4th, got called for it, and started complaining. And complaining. And complaining. 45 seconds later, on our next possession he finally complained so much he got the technical. Duh. Our new Brad. Maybe just as bad, got into a smacktalking fest with CP3, which Paul settled by destroying us. If you are going to talk smack, back it up.
[yt=Conan's Philosophy]Oo9buo9Mtos[/yt]
Conan the Barbarian -- it was a tossup between this or the great speech he lays on his god before going into battle, at the end of which he adds "and if you will not help, to hell wit you!" But in coming centuries this may be the classic philosophy that becomes the philosophical cornerstone of all future generations, so here it is. Hey, you people elected him gubernator, not me.

McCants ( C ) -- came in and picked up a quick foul, but then nicely blocked Peja's three point shot at the close of the first quarter (were a lot of three point attempts blocked last night). Forced shots in the second, but one of them was a very impressive drive that he tried to finish with a dunk, but somehow could not convert. He did not really get much done out there, but you could see the potential.

Great spirits have always encountered violent opposition from mediocre minds. -- Albert Einstein


Simmons ( INC ) -- I did not expect to see him so soon, but good. Young guy, let.s get him some time. Should have fiugured with Natt's dislike for power, size, and Shelden, that Ike might be a casualty. Of course about all I can say is that Simmons moved well in his stint. But he accomplished nothing. Got stripped by Chandler on one possession, then tried a hook over him that was way off. And..that was about it.

"It is better to be a coward for a minute than dead for the rest of your life." -- Irish proverb


Greene ( INC ) -- in briefly at the end of the second quarter, had a good finish on the semibreak, bricked a three, at least competed on defense. Finished his stint trying a wild and none too smart drive that had no chance. Guess you could at least say he attacked the basket, if by attacked you mean flew at it wildly out of control.
 
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Kenny Natt F-

You knew it was going to happen.. I know JT got into foul trouble, but he did not see the floor again after getting his 4th foul. Also, Natt was an idiot to keep him in after the second foul.

I have a feeling we will be seeing Nocioni starting at PF sometime soon and we will see JT's minutes drop down to about 10-15 a game.
 
Since we don't get pretty girls, can we get cuts of steak? :o

Foul trouble isn't completely natt's fault, keeping him in the game is though... I have no problem seeing noci at the PF spot if JT has to sit on the bench
 
bull****. Nocionni is a SF he is at his best as a SF. Natt is a ****ing idiot to keep going with this small ball ****.
 
Could somebody please count me the number of championships won by teams that play smallball. Better yet count me the number of games the Kings have won since the year of the Muss playing smallball?
 
Good lord. Some of you really need to at least see about getting an introduction to reality.

:rolleyes:

WE DON'T WANT TO WIN RIGHT NOW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

As far as JT not getting enough minutes, he's a rookie with a lot to learn. And, bless his heart, he's actually appearing to learn... I was most impressed with him not whining about calls.

JT is going to be fine and he's going to get his minutes as time goes by. The product on the court tonight was actually watchable and we haven't been able to say that about a whole lot of games in recent memory.

Keep the big picture in mind...
 
Theme...did not really prepare anything, so wil have to off the cuff it...so...theme tonight = Bricklayer's Favorite Philosophers. Should be very exciting...

I'd like to nominate the philosopher who said:

"The eagle may soar, but the weasel never gets sucked into a jet engine."

Truly words to live by...
 
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Normally I would agree to give JT as many minutes as possible, however tonight I think Natt sitting him towards the end was a good lesson. He is still a rookie who makes mistakes. JT has proven that he has a LOT of upside. I just think that in order to prevent him from developing bad habbits the coach needs to send a message. Sometimes Natt lets him coast through some mistakes then at a buildup of some games with JT fouling a lot he shows JT that its not acceptable. In this case I am in agreement.


I'm really not a big fan of Natt either by the way.
 
Good lord. Some of you really need to at least see about getting an introduction to reality.

:rolleyes:

WE DON'T WANT TO WIN RIGHT NOW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

As far as JT not getting enough minutes, he's a rookie with a lot to learn. And, bless his heart, he's actually appearing to learn... I was most impressed with him not whining about calls.

JT is going to be fine and he's going to get his minutes as time goes by. The product on the court tonight was actually watchable and we haven't been able to say that about a whole lot of games in recent memory.

Keep the big picture in mind...

I see the big picture and Kenny Natt has rabbit ears behind everyones head.
 
Still losing, but seriously, the cloud has lifted a bit. Something new to watch.

Theme...did not really prepare anything, so wil have to off the cuff it...so...theme tonight = Bricklayer's Favorite Philosophers. Should be very exciting.


grades will come...

Cool theme brick. Do you need a picture of me for my spot? Or are you just naming us?
 
"What, if some day or night a demon were to steal after you into your loneliest loneliness and say to you: 'This life as you now live it and have lived it, you will have to live once more and innumerable times more' ... Would you not throw yourself down and gnash your teeth and curse the demon who spoke thus? Or have you once experienced a tremendous moment when you would have answered him: 'You are a god and never have I heard anything more divine.'"

-nietzsche

BEST BE SOME NIETZSCHE UP IN HERE LATER. Best philosopher quote of all time. Kind of funny if you apply it to the Kings' latest season.
 
I'd like to nominate the philosopher who said:

"The eagle may soar, but the weasel never gets sucked into a jet engine."

Truly words to live by...

I like this one:

"The early bird may get the worm, but the second mouse gets the cheese"

:cool:
 
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Good lord. Some of you really need to at least see about getting an introduction to reality.

:rolleyes:

WE DON'T WANT TO WIN RIGHT NOW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

As far as JT not getting enough minutes, he's a rookie with a lot to learn. And, bless his heart, he's actually appearing to learn... I was most impressed with him not whining about calls.

JT is going to be fine and he's going to get his minutes as time goes by. The product on the court tonight was actually watchable and we haven't been able to say that about a whole lot of games in recent memory.

Keep the big picture in mind...

Ok let me get this off my chest. First of all, I know people are pulling nothing but positives out of this because we only lost by 7, but let's be real here.

Your "Star player" Kevin Martin playing lackadaisical and showing no effort out there.
Your team looking discombobulated and sloppy out there on the floor.
Seeing so many wide open shots and offensive rebounds for the Hornets and turnovers.

You call that watchable?

Ok maybe it's just me but even if my team isn't playing for anything, I still believe in giving it everything you've got. Understandably so, but this team just does not look like it cares anymore. Especially Kevin Martin who I am very disappointed with over the course of this season. His attitude on the court needs some re-adjusting. He sees a ball go right past him, not even diving on the floor for it. Show some effort!

Guys, this is an NBA basketball team. Bottomfeeder or not, we should be expecting more than the crappy garbage we're seeing out there. Jason Thompson is the ONLY bright spot on this team. I'm so frustrated right now, I have been watching the games but they're just so painful and hard to watch, IDK how people still go out to ARCO to watch them. When the Kings play defense, it's like the mentality isn't "Stopping the opponent from scoring", but instead it's "Hoping they miss". I'm sick of this product on the floor. So what if we get the first pick, what good is it if we keep this crappy team around.
 
Kenny Natt F-

You knew it was going to happen.. I know JT got into foul trouble, but he did not see the floor again after getting his 4th foul. Also, Natt was an idiot to keep him in after the second foul.

I have a feeling we will be seeing Nocioni starting at PF sometime soon and we will see JT's minutes drop down to about 10-15 a game.

I was actually happy to see JT stay in. It was early and JT is young so we needed to let him try to get into a rhythm. I think it would have been worse to keep yo-yoing him in and out of the game. The alternative would have been yanking him immediatley and then yanking him again as soon as he get his third foul in the second quarter. We have 5 PFs, so I think it was a good risk.
 
cisco will be on the bench he is bench player and natt knows this give it a couple more day and i'll line up will be beno martin nocioni jt and hawes



Kenny Natt F-

You knew it was going to happen.. I know JT got into foul trouble, but he did not see the floor again after getting his 4th foul. Also, Natt was an idiot to keep him in after the second foul.

I have a feeling we will be seeing Nocioni starting at PF sometime soon and we will see JT's minutes drop down to about 10-15 a game.
 
How about an underrated modern philosopher? We all know the classics will be well-represented.

“If God dwells inside us like some people say, I sure hope He likes enchiladas, because that's what He's getting.”
 
"Sometimes it is better to be quiet and be considered an idiot, than to open your mouth and eliminate all remaining dsoubt."

Georg Christoph Lichtenberg. Rough translation by me.

Oh, and also basically anything that Douglas Adams wrote. Especially that part about Lizards in Mostly Harmless.
 
"He who ignores history, is doomed to repeat it."

I like that as it applies to the Kings. Artest was many things good, bad and everything in between. But he hustled and it rubbed off. He played defense and it rubbed off...............for awhile anyway. He made the Kings better for awhile but he was either ON or OFF regards the players and NBA player personalities don't work like that. Finally his plusses did not overcome his minuses.

Nocioni so far is many good things: he hustles, defends, works with the team, scores from anywhere, has great personality and a sense of humor. He leads by example. Thats it. Don't see the gray or any black areas as with RonRon.

In that regard the Kings are now better than last year and played better vs. Hornets. Sure, they have a ways to go. But GP bailed them out in 97-98 after they had Peja for starters. Kevin at 90% is pretty good + Nocioni + the big Kids JT and SH. A core for sure. 1998 could be 2010 all over again: not for the draft or free agents but a strike shortened season. Like the last time the Kings, like a Phoenix, rose from the ashes to get to the top.

Last night was but the tippy tip of the ice berg of a whole team. Let's show how smart we as fans really are and see what develops the next 25 games. Kinda like a preseason all over again with a bunch trying to make the team and giving it their all.......or not.
 
"Sometimes it is better to be quiet and be considered an idiot, than to open your mouth and eliminate all remaining dsoubt."

Georg Christoph Lichtenberg. Rough translation by me.

Better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak out and remove all doubt.

-Abraham Lincoln

"He who knows does not speak. He who speaks, does not know." - Lao Tzu
 
"Sometimes it is better to be quiet and be considered an idiot, than to open your mouth and eliminate all remaining dsoubt."

Georg Christoph Lichtenberg. Rough translation by me.

Oh, and also basically anything that Douglas Adams wrote. Especially that part about Lizards in Mostly Harmless.


No diggity, no dsoubt. That is awesome use of ebonics. Tres hood.
 
I thought that the good bit about the lizards was in SLATFATF; which bit are you referring to?

The one, where a giant robot comes and demands to be taken to the main lizards, as the world, where it was built is ruled by lizards that terribly repress the people of the planet. I'm quite sure it was in the last book of the series. You might be referring to another part, I guess.

(for those not in the know: the people of said planet cannot get rid of the lizards, despite fair elections, because only lizards are put forward as candidates. the Simpsons picked that idea up in one of their Treehouse of Horror episodes as well.)

Better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak out and remove all doubt.

-Abraham Lincoln

"He who knows does not speak. He who speaks, does not know." - Lao Tzu

Alright, I'll give you Lao Tzu (although there is a bit of difference between the two quotes), but Lichtenberg was a few decades before Lincoln.
 
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2 unrelated comments:

1) I really thought the Kings were enjoyable to watch tonight.

2) Philosophers - John Locke and Jeremy Bentham - anyone else a big fan of "Lost?'
 
Being a Philosophy major at Berkeley, I'm going to take a stab at what other Philosophers Bricklayer cooks up.

1. Aristotle
2. Plato
3. Socrates
4. Immanuel Kant
5. David Hume
6. John Locke
7. Thomas Hobbes
8. Benjamin Franklin
9. Niccolò Machiavelli
10. John Stuart Mill

Though next semester I'm taking Eastern Philosophy, so I'll get to know some of the non-Western schools of thought.
 
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