Heuge
Starter
19 year old rookie in his second game going up against an MVP. He played an A- game despite the mistakes.
Grades v. Hornets 10/30/09
- Thread starter Bricklayer
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Kingsguy881
Guest
Whoa bro, whats up with the love? Like taking low blows and cheap shots do we.
Anyway, yeah, his man scored 11 of the last 13. He does that to everyone who plays against him. No surprise there. You don't stop players of his caliber, and you find it near impossible to contain them too. So what are you saying? That reke had the same amount of 4th quarter success against CP3 that everyone does, and in his second game he almost matched him stride for stride?
And Jamarcus Russell can't hit the broadside of a barn with his passes. No excuses for Evans lack of assists, but I want to hear you deny the fact that he created a LOT of wide open looks for his teammates that they couldn't knock down. Deny it.
You seem to forget his grades are based on a "curve" which consists of the expectations of that particular player, not an absolute grading scale.
Evans is a rookie in his second NBA game and played HUGE against CP3. That deserves an A grade of some type, win or lose.
there was one camera view (I think in the 4th) of Evans bringing up the ball and you can read his lips - looks like he says "Come on!" - then the camera shot is farther away and he is looking right at Paul out on the perimeter. LOVE that attitude! The dude is going to be a beast with more seasoning.
Entity
Hall of Famer
yeah we should just bench his *** and never let him put on the kings uniform again.
what game did you watch or did you just see a box score.
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Kingsguy881
Guest
My brother is a Laker fan and he sounds exactly like you....
Entity
Hall of Famer
Are you kidding me? These guys really don't even watch the games? yet they bring the most critisism? This is insane. I would would just shut my mouth if I couldn't see the damn games. The next statement is not name calling.
If I ever come in a say ANYTHING based on a box score I want someone to call me an idiot loser cluster ****.
There's already been plenty of discussion around here that +/- is useless on a game-by-game basis.
And this statistic of Paul scoring 11 of the last 13 is deceiving at best. The final 4 of those were from the line when it was desperation fouling time. Can't blame Evans for that (especially when he didn't commit the fouls.) Of the remaining 7 points, 3 were on free throws where Evans, again, did not commit the foul. Add to that 4 points on 2 layups, where to my recollection (I've deleted the game so I can't look back) one of the two had Paul beating Evans to the rack (the other, with the Brockman foul, I think Evans had been switched off), and again to my recollection it was the first time Paul got to the rack on Evans all night. You can't lump all of that on Evans.
Our kid played the guy often referred to as "the best point guard in the world" to a draw, on the road, in the opponents' home opener, in his second game ever in the NBA. He did this while sending Paul to the line only twice (once on a silly foul in the backcourt), not allowing Paul, the world leader in steals to get the ball from him once, generally keeping Paul from getting layups and forcing him to make difficult (on at least two occasions ugly) shots, all while apparently having the ability to get off his jump shot over Paul at will and get to the rim with ease and to set up his teammates for open shots.
Holy cow. He looked really good. I think it's OK to give the kid an A- here. When was the last time somebody made Chris Paul look that mortal?
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Kingsguy881
Guest
101 watches the game, I think he honestly says things to just stir it up, I find it tough to believe that he actually believes the things he posts.
AM27 lives in Lala land and cannot get the games on tv.
Entity
Hall of Famer
I am guessing they both wanted rubio.
M_Barragan
Bench
He's not Ricky C- !!! How dare you give him a higher score then that. If he went 20 for 30 and scored 60 points he still missed 10 shots! If he had 15 assists and 5 turnovers he still had 5 turnovers! If he had 5 blocks he still didnt get all the shots shot in front of him...
C- stop being such homers
C- stop being such homers
101's criticisms are valid. Tyreke went at Paul, but he never got the team's offense going. Paul broke him down at the end, while Evans put up some shots in traffic and made some bad TOs. Tyreke had a nice game for a SG but a slighted game for a PG.
I don't judge Evans on doing what he did in college, because that is not ultimately what the team is so lacking. I judge him on becoming what he was supposedly drafted for. I'd give him a B if I were grading.
I don't judge Evans on doing what he did in college, because that is not ultimately what the team is so lacking. I judge him on becoming what he was supposedly drafted for. I'd give him a B if I were grading.
Read this again, dude:
Bricklayer said:
He's not talking about an NBA-savvy, experienced point guard here. He's talking about a ROOKIE in only his second game in the NBA taking it right at Chris Paul and not backing down.
The grades reflect what one would expect from a player in that situation. And I'd like to see anyone dispute that last night in New Orleans Tyreke Evans exceeded pretty much everyone's expectations for what they would see from him AT THAT POINT.
M_Barragan
Bench
Not to mention he played a good game... PERIOD. And was our best player on the court by far. Tyreke is not a ghost he can't cut through screens... I assume these guys believe Ricky can pass through screens and could have done a much better job defensively.
Oh and JT and the rest of the crew would not have missed any of those layups if it was Ricky passing them the ball.
Ricky in his second NBA game would already be a grizzled veteran have had 3 Playoff MVP's and a quadruple double on the best PG in the game.
Tyreke = FAIL
Oh and JT and the rest of the crew would not have missed any of those layups if it was Ricky passing them the ball.
Ricky in his second NBA game would already be a grizzled veteran have had 3 Playoff MVP's and a quadruple double on the best PG in the game.
Tyreke = FAIL
First, in case no one has said it yet, welcome to Kingsfans.com!
Now, about the post? You should use the
or even the 
emoticon if you're going to be that tongue-in-cheek as I'm reasonably sure someone who doesn't bother to read the whole thing will assume the "Tyreke = FAIL" to be some kind of sarcastic dump on our young rookie.
piksi
Hall of Famer
Ricky Rubio will get to the NBA. When he does - then we can compare something. Right now we can speculate meaning when Evans plays well You will provoke, when he doesn't, someone else will and so on. Fact is that We don't have Rubio - end of story. We have Evans and we will support him trough good and bad games - which he certainly will have.
I wanted Rubio because we desperately need a PG. Doesn't meant - I don't like Evans. I do believe that Evans would be much much better on his primary position. I would even trade Martin for a good young PG to open the Position for a more talented SG.
A
AriesMar27
Guest
vf21 is right, you really should try to use as many
or 's as humanly possible. because you are either overrating evans' passing skills or severely underrating rubios.... rubio passing the ball to thompson, hawes or martin is totally different than evans doing the same thing against the same team. thats like saying they wouldve missed those layups with jason kidd passing it to them. just because they missed it with evans passing them the ball doesnt mean that they would miss that same shot with a better passer tossing them the ball.thats like saying that hawes can block one of lebrons shots just because dwight howard did it. or that tyreke can dunk on lebron because jamal crawfords lil brother did it. are you serious? tyreke couldnt even dunk on chris paul...
tyreke=fail....
see how that works...but welcome aboard though.... its nice to know that this team still gets new fans every year. because they havent been playing very well lately.
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AriesMar27
Guest
exactly... i would trade martin right now for the rights to rubio, mark blounts expiring contract and ryan hollins... lets do it... martin and jefferson would be a beastly team offensively and they would still have sessions and flynn at pg. love is injured... they would be a pretty good team. well... better than they are now.... thats a much better core than what we have....
Bricklayer
Don't Make Me Use The Bat
You know, I rarely comment on the comments in this thread since I obviously have my say at the beginning, but that is just sad. Really. You need to take a long hard look in the mirror because you've developed such a raging case of hate with this kid that you're not even able to keep it even thinly veiled at this point. And that bitterness is going to eat you up and make it impossible to enjoy Kings games. You will find yourself actively rooting for them to lose if Reke is having a good game just so that he doesn't get any accolades. And all of this hate gets started because we didn't draft some dude that very few of us have even seen play and who decided to still play in Europe? Becomes a pride thing where you predicted X, and criticized Y, and so you become vested in seeing Y fail, but it doesn't have much of anything to do with the basketball after a while. And it will absolutley eat you up.
20 yr old kid, in his second NBA game, duels a HOFer in the HOFs own building in the home opener, the coach is happy, his opponent, the world's best, is off tweeting people about how impressed he is with him, but somehow all the positive attention just makes you mad. And like I say, that's not about Reke, its not about the basketball. Its about you. When it gets so bad you can't even give credit when credit is due it becomes naked, and destroys the credibility of even your valid criticisms. This happens from time to time with everybody, but to have developed such a strong case by the second game of a kid's rookie season is just ridiculous.
Of course maybe I am wrong here. Maybe you just have a wildly inflated opinion of Reke, think he should already be the next LeBron, and consider anything less than a 20-10-10 game to be beneath his immense talents and an offgame. But sitting there staring into your mirror you know as well as I do that that's not true. That an 8 and 6 game from a player you had invested in succeeding would make you far happier than a 22 and 3 game from a player whom you had invested in failing. Its just so damn early to have already made that latter investment though.
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OptimusRhyme
Jive Turkey
What are you talking about he never got the teams offense going? he set up players for clean looks 10 + times. i re watched the game and payed close attention and evans was driving and dishing to our guards and bigs numerous times for open looks. They just couldnt hit a damn shot or wide open layup. Tyreke did his job as good as he could of last night dishing the ball.
ElRey
Starter
he's talking about the pretty passes that rubio makes in you tube highlights, that's what he's talking about. You know, the behind the back, the elbow pass, the wrap around and then look away, the one handed allyoop passes, the nutmeg passes, the no looks, the thread the need passes, etc. Simple wide open passes don't count.
K
Kingsguy881
Guest
There are about 4 true detractors of Evans, and they definitely defend each other. But then again they are all they have. swish, 101, am27 and gary. So don't take most of what they say to heart brutha. Grain of salt and all that.
M_Barragan
Bench
Thanks for the welcome... I always just use the quick reply so it never gives me options for the emoticons. I've been a kings fans since 8th grade I just graduated college so I have a few years on me.
Ive visited this board since it began but have only read and have never posted. I remember when you guys used to have games against the other board. Sounded like fun. Anyways i'm on the board now to show support while we are at our lowest.
A absolutely f'ing hate to see all the people that were once kings fans go to the purple and yellow. It makes me vomit in my mouth just a little. My girlfriend is a Laker fan... imagine how that goes lol.
I would not trade for Kmart for Rubio just yet. We still don't know what he is capable in the NBA. While Martin is a proven NBA scorer. Rubio is a superior passer then Tyreke but Tyreke is also superior defensively, slashing to the lane and finishing.
Both players have a suspect jump shot but were seing Tyreke so far have a serviceable one we can't say the say about Rubio. I wanted Rubio to get picked just because it would get us some attention around the NBA. I was suprised when we picked Tyreke. But now I see why.... he is 3-4 years ahead in his development and already has a man's body.
Rubio is quite small.... and like tyreke lacks elite level hops. I'm sure he will be a solid PG not on CP3's level but very solid. At this point we don't need a solid PG... this front office realized they needed someone that could take over a game.
All the great PG's have nice talent around them to compliment his passing with their finishing ability... but even then.... Stockton never won.... the team with the guy that could not be guarded won every time.
We simply just don't have that talent... a point guard now with no talent would get us nowhere. They gambled on a player they think had the best shot at becoming that force at the 4th pick.
All the championship teams for as long as I can remember have that player... we made this pick hoping that we could have one aswell. I still am not certain that Tyreke is that guy. He lacks vertical ability which does limit what he can do... however he is really crafty with the ball. So it will be a matter if his craftyness will be enough to overcome that.
When he was attempting to block one of CP3's shots from a fast break chase down he did show he could get off the ground though... his head was about level with the backboard which is 8 inches lower then the rim.
Ive visited this board since it began but have only read and have never posted. I remember when you guys used to have games against the other board. Sounded like fun. Anyways i'm on the board now to show support while we are at our lowest.
A absolutely f'ing hate to see all the people that were once kings fans go to the purple and yellow. It makes me vomit in my mouth just a little. My girlfriend is a Laker fan... imagine how that goes lol.
I would not trade for Kmart for Rubio just yet. We still don't know what he is capable in the NBA. While Martin is a proven NBA scorer. Rubio is a superior passer then Tyreke but Tyreke is also superior defensively, slashing to the lane and finishing.
Both players have a suspect jump shot but were seing Tyreke so far have a serviceable one we can't say the say about Rubio. I wanted Rubio to get picked just because it would get us some attention around the NBA. I was suprised when we picked Tyreke. But now I see why.... he is 3-4 years ahead in his development and already has a man's body.
Rubio is quite small.... and like tyreke lacks elite level hops. I'm sure he will be a solid PG not on CP3's level but very solid. At this point we don't need a solid PG... this front office realized they needed someone that could take over a game.
All the great PG's have nice talent around them to compliment his passing with their finishing ability... but even then.... Stockton never won.... the team with the guy that could not be guarded won every time.
We simply just don't have that talent... a point guard now with no talent would get us nowhere. They gambled on a player they think had the best shot at becoming that force at the 4th pick.
All the championship teams for as long as I can remember have that player... we made this pick hoping that we could have one aswell. I still am not certain that Tyreke is that guy. He lacks vertical ability which does limit what he can do... however he is really crafty with the ball. So it will be a matter if his craftyness will be enough to overcome that.
When he was attempting to block one of CP3's shots from a fast break chase down he did show he could get off the ground though... his head was about level with the backboard which is 8 inches lower then the rim.
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Responses of the magic kool-aid type make me ponder the inward struggle of trying to educate or knowing better than to even try. But it is the idea that you should give up on others that bothers me, and makes me question the philosophy of "pearls before swine."
So, I say this: The success of Kobe and the Lakers and the inability of Lebron to capture that same title is not just a matter of each team's talent. It has to do with Kobe learning to play within an offense in the later part of his career, while the Cavs have Lebron dribble around and try to make something out of nothing at the end.
There is also a correlation to how often a teammate touches the ball and moves within the offense to how successful their opportunities to score off of passes are. The ball-pounder's offense alienates the other members of the offensive set.
I'm going to break down one distinct play, which got two different reactions.
First half, Evans is dribble pounding the ball, trying to break down his man and get inside. Eventually he does, getting within feet of the rim. He has drawn to or three of the interior defenders. He passes out when he can't get a shot to a somewhat open Hawes who misses a hook shot.
the KingsFans.com reaction: Hawes missed an open shot and cost Evans an assist!
the Hornets Commentary reaction: That's a bad shot for Hawes.
As usual, the truth is somewhere in between. Hawes was open, but the shot he took was a fading, almost behind the backboard hook shot that is not a high percentage scoring opportunity. As well, Evans had killed a lot of the shotclock trying to accomplish this scoring chance. And having the ball with less clock and a now clogged middle gave Hawes that hook shot chance.
Yes, it was an open look that was missed. And yes, it was a bad shot set up by Evans. And as well, three members of the offense weren't even a part of the play.
So, I say this: The success of Kobe and the Lakers and the inability of Lebron to capture that same title is not just a matter of each team's talent. It has to do with Kobe learning to play within an offense in the later part of his career, while the Cavs have Lebron dribble around and try to make something out of nothing at the end.
There is also a correlation to how often a teammate touches the ball and moves within the offense to how successful their opportunities to score off of passes are. The ball-pounder's offense alienates the other members of the offensive set.
I'm going to break down one distinct play, which got two different reactions.
First half, Evans is dribble pounding the ball, trying to break down his man and get inside. Eventually he does, getting within feet of the rim. He has drawn to or three of the interior defenders. He passes out when he can't get a shot to a somewhat open Hawes who misses a hook shot.
the KingsFans.com reaction: Hawes missed an open shot and cost Evans an assist!
the Hornets Commentary reaction: That's a bad shot for Hawes.
As usual, the truth is somewhere in between. Hawes was open, but the shot he took was a fading, almost behind the backboard hook shot that is not a high percentage scoring opportunity. As well, Evans had killed a lot of the shotclock trying to accomplish this scoring chance. And having the ball with less clock and a now clogged middle gave Hawes that hook shot chance.
Yes, it was an open look that was missed. And yes, it was a bad shot set up by Evans. And as well, three members of the offense weren't even a part of the play.
M_Barragan
Bench
That was a shot Hawes can make. An open jump hook from 4 feet is of higher percentage then an open 3 pointer... which is the best this team can do on a consistent basis. Not like we have mulltiple guys that can get their own shot off...
Basketball is a game of best options.... if the play breaks down you take what you can get. This team is to new to have a repertoire of set plays.... not even mentioning the lack of talent. Takes more then one player to break down a play man... if everyone is running around like chickens with their head cut off the best you can do is make something happen.... and he did.
Basketball is a game of best options.... if the play breaks down you take what you can get. This team is to new to have a repertoire of set plays.... not even mentioning the lack of talent. Takes more then one player to break down a play man... if everyone is running around like chickens with their head cut off the best you can do is make something happen.... and he did.
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Kingsguy881
Guest
I know what play you are talking about, and that was a broken play. At that point the shot clock was running down and they had to create. Evans had the ball as he is going to be the main focal point to create in the offense. He attempted to get to the rack and it was clogged, the shot clock was at like 2 or 3 and he dropped it off to Hawes who got a semi decent look.
Now beyond your reasoning, there is one other distinct impression that can be gotten from this. It's the fact that in recent years when situations like this happened, there was no one on the team who could get even a decent look not only for himself but at least for someone else. I know we all remember situations like this where maybe Cisco had the ball and tried to force something which either resulted in a turnover, offensive foul, or a putrid shot attempt. Or maybe Martin tried to do something which might have resulted in him getting bailed out, turn it over, or flail up a shot.
In spinning this back in a direction other than yours, there were many times where the defense collapsed on Evans as he drove and he kicked it out to someone, Martin, Hawes, May, Thompson, Mason where they weren't able to hit the open jumper. I really fail in seeing how this can continue.
I honestly think if the players had been hitting even a higher percentage of the looks Reke was getting for them the Kings could have blown the doors off on this Hornets team and had them scrambling to keep up.
And as I am a lover of the Kings, I want to see them succeed. So when they put together a game like this after looking so rank to start the season last year and even this year, there were many bright spots.
There were some negative spots, Martin doubles down sometimes when he shouldn't, Reke made some rookie mistakes that all rookies do, Hawes is hanging out on the perimeter a little too much, Mason can't shoot, Casspi should be starting, etc..
I don't care to keep picking wounds. Thats for the coaching staff, they get paid money to do it so I let them. I see them and if they continue with exacerbation than I will harp on them. But to see how Reke stared down CP3, to see the look in his eye....he is a competitor and we need those. JT is a competitor, he is down to battle. Martin wants to be a competitor but the jury's out on that one.
But Reke took on one of the two best pg's in the league (Billups being the other one) and stood up to him toe to toe. Dished out as much as he took in. CP3 was having a VERY difficult time with Tyreke in the first half. Reke had him frustrated for a while. Reke had him calling for help from other defenders, which is what led to the open shots we we're missing. Thats admirable, even if you and other's won't admit it to yourselves.
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Kingsguy881
Guest
Very nice post. I especially liked this point. I mostly agree with this. Not always though. I would say that most of the time the team that had a stud that nobody could guard won. Detroit a few years ago with Chauncey did it. But it is RARE. You need that player that you can count on at the end of a close game. However, the thing about Chauncey which makes him so good is that at times he CAN be unguardable. A big pg that can be unguardable.......reminds me of someone.
Uncia03
Starter
This particular play started with Kings crossing the mid-court line at 7:50 left in the 2nd Quarter and 18 seconds on the shot clock.
At 7:49 Evans passed it to Nocioni.
At 7:45 Nocioni passed it to Hawes just inside the 3-point line with Darius all over him. (13 seconds on shot clock)
At 7:40 Hawes passes it to Evans just inside the 3-point line on the right-hand side of the court with CP3 right in front of Evans and 8 seconds on the shot clock.
At this point Evans only has 8 seconds to get something positive for the Kings.
At 7:35 Evans has beaten CP3 and Julian Wright's steal attempt and sliced into the lane with no help of a screen. (3 seconds on shot clock)
At 7:34 Evans sees Hawes unguarded under the basket and he slips the ball past 3 defenders.
The pass is not directly to Hawes as Evans had to angle the pass, but only Hawes could reach it.
Hawes gets the ball on the bounce and with CP3 sort of in the vicinity he does a turn-around hookshot with 1 second on the shot clock.
Now Hawes had more time than he thought. He rushed the shot and though time was running out, he could have attempted a more composed shot.
Evans had some bad offensive sequences, that can't be denied, and there are times when he over-dribbles. However, this was not one of them.
Basically nothing was happening with the offense on this possession, and Evans got the ball back with 8 seconds remaining. With-out help from his teammates he was able to penetrate into the lane and get the ball to a teammate who was unguarded under the basket.
For an offensive possession which wasn't looking good, he gave the Kings a very good chance to get an easy basket.
-----------------
When comparing the Evans to CP3:
Negatives:
-2 Assists
Positives:
-1 Turn-Over
+2 Steals
+1 Rebound
Over 50% from Field
Over 87% from the Line
I wish the assist total had been higher, as we would have won the game if a few of his passes had found their way into the basket on the shot, but I'm not certain how you could not be incredibly encouraged after watching Evans go against the best PG in the world.
Section 101
All-Star
You guys and gals are just proving my point. No where did I say he had a bad game. In fact I said he had an above average game of c+ to b- seeing as a c is average.
My god don't come on here and point out things bad about Tyreke "the greatest rookie of all time" Evans. All I said was he didn't deserve and A- grade. He had lots of room to do better. No saying he should at this point, but dam an if your grading that much on a scale might as well give K9 a B just being on the team.
Oh and it's funny how everyone else has to bring up rubio these days (ok I did once in the first grades as a joke). It's not even the people Kingsgurl881 mentioned as the ones who wanted him. It's everyone else.
My god don't come on here and point out things bad about Tyreke "the greatest rookie of all time" Evans. All I said was he didn't deserve and A- grade. He had lots of room to do better. No saying he should at this point, but dam an if your grading that much on a scale might as well give K9 a B just being on the team.
Oh and it's funny how everyone else has to bring up rubio these days (ok I did once in the first grades as a joke). It's not even the people Kingsgurl881 mentioned as the ones who wanted him. It's everyone else.
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