[Grades] Grades v. Hornets 02/24/2013

How many min would you have given "Pat Pat" given he had not practiced?

  • 30+

    Votes: 3 10.3%
  • 20-29

    Votes: 5 17.2%
  • 10-19

    Votes: 14 48.3%
  • less than 10

    Votes: 2 6.9%
  • just the garbagetime he got to get his feet wet

    Votes: 5 17.2%
  • 0 -- what's the point of messing with his season averages?

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Total voters
    29
  • Poll closed .

Bricklayer

Don't Make Me Use The Bat
Another day another loss.

This did not get out of control until the end, but there were certain gamelong trends that hurt us throughout:

1) Tyreke had a just awful game trying to finish inside. The Hornets were uncharacteristically all over the interior defensively and even when not blocked Reke looked uncomfortable and blew layup after layup. Ironically at the end of the game when he just threw up a couple of threes in desperation time, he hit those.
2) the Hornets absolutely punished Isaiah Thomas with Grevis Vasquez all night. Sometimes Isaiah's size is just a footnote that comes into play here and there. But Monty Williams made it an absolute storyline as they posted Vasquez, used picks on Isaiah, and just killed our defense with that all night. IT and DeMarcus got into it on the sidelines in the third and it seemed to be about the defense, although cannot be sure. Reke had to step between them, Patterson tried to exert his Boogie influence etc.
3) our brilliant coach got so scared of Ryan Anderson, who as usual lit us up as a hometown surprise, that he chose to play James Johnson (15min 0pts 1reb 4fls) for extended stretches rather than Jason Thompson (28min 16pts (8-11FG) 9reb), who was the most efficient offensive player on the team tonight.
4) not all game, but John Salmons went on a career hot streak from 3pt land in the 3rd/early 4th quarter. Unfortunately us being us, we did not understand it, and rather than saying aha! Salmons is hot standing still with his feet set at the three point line! We in predictable fashion said Salmons is just hot! And began to call clearouts and isos and pick plays for him to throw up a variety of garbage off his own dribble. Except he never once all game hit a single shot like that. He hit 6 standstill threes, and not one of the other junk shots that we, or he, forcefed him as he was 0-8 otherwise.
5) Barely got to see Patterson in the final 2min of garbagetime.

And...we lost. Still no girls. Just another loss. 25 more games to no more Maloofs.

Full Grading Consortium for tonight:
Bricklayer
Capt. Factorial
bajaden


Boxscore

Stats: 37min 18pts (6-14, 6-7, 0-0) 3reb 3ast 0stl 1blk 2TO
Salmons ( B ) -- Finally, a good game by Salmons. He was more aggressive tonight with the ball. The irony of the night, was that he should have just stuck with shooting the ball from long range. He was 6 for 7 from the three, but just 6 of 14 overall. Which means he missed all 7 of his shots within the two point range. From that perspective, it was a strange night. The bottom line is, he had 18 points, and he helped keep us in the game. He finished out the 3rd quarter by hitting a 3 point shot with just a couple of ticks left on the clock. Once again, with John, it was the tale of two half's, as he scored, if memory serves, all of his points in the second half. He did throw in a heat check here and there, and made a couple of unforced turnovers, but overall, John played very well. And, I thought his defense was very good. He was one of the few that did play well, and helped keep the game competitive. --Baja
danny-ainge-basketball-card-sacramento-kings-1990-fleer-162_2a140c68edf0fcb8302c7a6b57064540.jpg

Remember: Danny Ainge (w/Kings '88-90)? -- few people outside of Sacramento remember that Danny Ainge passed through town for a year and a half at the close of the 80s. At the time he would have sort have been a Manu figure for an aging Celtics squad, and one of the most hated players in the NBA for his cheap chippy play, whining to the refs etc. But he was also 1/5 of one of the two great 80s dynasties, so the Kings of that era in classic wannabe fashion imported him and tried to install him as our star, even though he was maybe only the 5th best Celtic. He had the best statistical year of his career, but he was no franchise player, it was another miserable year for the Kings, and we shipped him off for what turned out to be nothing (guy never played for us) the next season (ironically so Adelman could have him on his contending Portland teams).

Stats: 28min 16pts (8-11, 0-0, 0-0) 9reb 0ast 0stl 1blk 3TO
Thompson ( B ) -- JT had one of those nights where he was just opportunistic. He seemed to be in the right place at the right time for the tip in or the put back. He started with a dunk on a nice pass from Cuz. After which he hit a 15 foot jumper from the right side. He then tipped in a Tyreke miss, and that was the story of the night. He was basicly the garbage man, but he was very effective in just taking what was there. Even when he missed, the ball seemed to bounce the right way. As when he missed a point blank dunk and the ball bounced all the way out to Salmons beyond the three point line, who promptly hit the shot. A bit later in the second half, he slammed home a dunk off of a missed floater by Thomas. Hopefully JT is back to being JT, and just taking what the game gives him. He also added 9 rebounds . Not spectacular, but very efficient. He ended the night with 16 points on 8 of 11 shootiing, and had 1 blocked shot. Welcome back JT! --Baja
Remember: Danny Ainge (w/Kings '88-90)? -- few people outside of Sacramento remember that Danny Ainge passed through town for a year and a half at the close of the 80s. At the time he would have sort have been a Manu figure for an aging Celtics squad, and one of the most hated players in the NBA for his cheap chippy play, whining to the refs etc. But he was also 1/5 of one of the two great 80s dynasties, so the Kings of that era in classic wannabe fashion imported him and tried to install him as our star, even though he was maybe only the 5th best Celtic. He had the best statistical year of his career, but he was no franchise player, it was another miserable year for the Kings, and we shipped him off for what turned out to be nothing (guy never played for us) the next season (ironically so Adelman could have him on his contending Portland teams).
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Remember: Michael Smith (w/Kings '94-98)? -- yet another in the endless stream of undersized PFs this frnachise has wallowed in over the years, but this one had an edge. Nicknamed "The Animal", Smith came in as a second round pick the same year Brian Grant arrived as a first rounder, and the two of them combined to give us a toughness facelift in much the same way Christie and BJax would 7-8 years later. Smith was small, but rugged and ferocious on the glass.

Stats: 37min 16pts (5-13, 0-0, 6-6) 10reb 2ast 2stl 0blk 2TO
Cousins ( C ) -- was racking up points in the early going, but mostly as a finisher not a creater. Taking easy passes, clean up follows, out on the break. Efficient, but not as many wow impact plays as normal. Was also providing strong work on the glass, but inevitably picked up 2 fouls before the end of the first quarter to break the stretch. Returned to the game and immediately returned to being better than everybody on the boards, added a drive through traffic, took a charge. But somehow there was never any payoff to the setup for another big game. Never looked 100% comfortable, there was another one of his bad idea crosscourt passes, the jumper was never on, he took a bad defensive gamble to begin the thrid and gave up the dunk because of it. And while he flashed those great hands on a couple of second half plays with great catches inside, another poke steal and rumble the other way up top etc., overall hsi game feel into the middling and out of sorts. He was letting Lopez slash to the hoop on defense, being alternately forgotten about, frustrated, our starting too far out with traffic in front of him on offense, and looking generally disgusted by the whole thing as Reke blew layups, IT got killed on defense, and James Johnson was given his running mates' minutes so he coudl watch Ryan Anderson drain threes. Should note there was an incdent between he and IT on the sidelines int he late 3rd where they appeared to be jawing at each otehr after IT got overwhelemed by Vasquez to the hoop in the open court. Reke had to step in between them, Patterson came over to say something to Cuz. Not sure what it was -- might have been offesnively related, because wasn't much IT could have done on that defensive play given his size.--Brick
Dahntay-Jones-SSC.jpg

Remember: Dahntay Jones (w/Kings '07-08)? -- and you ladies say I never give you anything. Of course Dahntay is still playing, and I was reminded to use him in one of these when we saw him twice on the road trip (he was traded midway through it and got out ahead of us again after Dallas). An athletic defensive specialist swingman, with yes a rockin' bod for the ladies, I liked his toughness and defense. Precisely one of those sorts of roleplayers we need more of and have seemingly completely abandaoned in favor of minature ball doiminant chucker types.

Stats: 34min 12pts (4-16, 2-2, 2-2) 3reb 4ast 1stl 0blk 0TO
Evans ( F ) -- Tyreke scored 12 points tonight, but they were about the worst 12 points that can possibly be scored - half of them came on two threes after the game was already completely over. Prior to those two shots, Evans went 2-14, with 11 of those 12 misses in the lane,. Adding to Tyreke's disgusting outing were two technical fouls, one on a defensive three-second violation and one for whining after he missed his tenth shot in the lane. Defensively the story wasn't really much better. He was responsible for 10 points on 6 shots, not counting the two points off technicals. Almost the only thing that can really be said is that he wasn't the focus of the Hornet offense. He did stymie Eric Gordon once in the post, but by the middle of the fourth he wasn't putting in any defensive effort at all, several times not even guarding anybody when he was on the weak side and once slumping off of Gordon so badly that JJ had to run at him to challenge the three because damn well Tyreke wasn't going to do it. Just a terrible effort all around.--Capt.
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Remember: Anthony Johnson (w/Kings '97-98, '07-08)? -- Anthony actually had two stints with the Kings. As a second round pick he was thrown to the wolves directing the final chaos in '98 before our Adelman revival, and then years later he would return as a reserve for half a late career season after a long roleplayer career defending and setting up offenses despite little talent (notoriously streaky he would have an odd big game every once in a while out of the blue).
 
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Stats: 34min 16pts (6-14, 1-3, 3-3) 3reb 5ast 2stl 0blk 1TO
Thomas ( C- ) -- Isaiah's offensive night was nowhere near his outstanding effort last time out, scoring an average 16 points on 15 shots, with a total of 5 assists. He had a couple of nice offensive plays in the first, including an unselfish dump off to Cuz on the break when he could have taken the layup himself, and a play where he got underneath the basket and then deked the defense into giving him the layup. But in between those he had three pretty lousy hero-ball plays, missing on a no-chance drive, missing an unnecessarily difficult three, and getting bailed out for FTs on another drive. He didn't score at all in the second or third quarters, going 0-4 missing three floaters (one blocked) and an early three trying to get us a two-for-one at the end of the half. He picked back up in the fourth, and while he did airball a three, he went 4-5 on his other shots, including a steal on the inbounds for a breakaway layup, but it wasn't even enough to keep the Kings in the game. Defensively, the Hornets had a pretty clear strategy: go at IT. New Orleans took 15 shots against Thomas, connecting for 19 points, though two of the shots that missed were point blank layups that weren't particularly contested. At the end of the third quarter there was a sequence where Vasquez scored 6 points in short order, completely destroying IT on two screens to earn layups and posting him up another time. The Hornets knew that they would have no trouble peeling him off with a screen, and they also managed to blow by him without a screen at least five times on my count. He did get a nice steal off of Eric Gordon that he threw forward to earn Cuz two free throws, but outside of that I don't recall him making any defensive plays that rose above merely competent. I hate to harp on it, but defense is half the game, and his was particularly bad tonight. --Capt.
Rich-Kelley-(1979-80).jpg

Remember: Rich Kelly (w/Kings '85-86)? -- old, scraggly, and washed up, Rich Kelly arrived with the Kings in town in '85-86 as the 3rd strong center for his last, and our first season. A man from a different era, he looked like your chain smoking uncle Pete, but I'll forever rememebeer him for rising up for 1 game in the playoffs of that very first season as we faced the original Twin Towers - Hakeem and Sampson, both wildly more talented and more athletic than anybody we had up front. I think Kelly was only in due to the predictable foul trouble across our front line, and he suddenly put on his hard hat and for about a quarter outplayed both of the young whippersnapper Twin Towers by himself with his old school trickery. Guess he figured it was never going to get any better than that, because he retired after the season.

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Stats: 31min 12pts (4-7, 2-3, 2-2) 4reb 3ast 0stl 0blk 2TO
Thornton ( C ) -- with Reke stinking the place up we needed Marcus as our lone bench scorer, but just selfish selfish selfish. Thing is of course he did not take that many shots. What you really have is a former featured scorer with selfish tendencies who isn't being featured much anymore and isn't consistently getting his touches, so whenever he does, well, you better bet its going up quick, fast, and without much thought to alternatives. Was in in the late 1st and turned it over on the drive going for the 2 for 1 to close the first quarter. Added an airball to start the second, but after spending most of the quarter ineffectively trying to force up shots, got a layup and a three to close his first half minutes. Returned in the mid 3rd for an ineffective Reke, and followed John Salmons' ridiculous 3pt steak with a dumb selfihs one of his own off of his own dribble, heavily contested, that also fell. Quick shooting for the win. i was not amused by the selfish flavor of this one, but given that it was moderately effective I am not going to completely pan it either. Suffice it to say you can't build anything around a guy playing like that though. --Brick

Stats: 15min 0pts (0-2, 0-1, 0-0) 1reb 0ast 0stl 2blk 1TO
Johnson ( C ) -- Offensively did absolutely nothing, missing a layup, missing a three, and getting called for a really obvious and really avoidable charge in transition. He did have one drive-and-kick to Jimmer for a three that didn't connect, but outside of that he had no contribution. Defensively, I think he had a better game. He spent a lot of time trying to pick up everybody else's missed assignments, and he forced at least three misses on help including a nifty challenge of a Jason Smith baseline jumper when Jimmer got switched off onto the center. During his stint in the first half he got switched onto Austin Rivers and blocked his shot on the drive, and force Ryan Anderson into a bad fadeaway shot on the baseline for a miss. In the fourth quarter he was a bit less valuable, allowing two threes, one on which he had really badly slumped off of Roger Mason. He also fouled Anderson in the post for a three-point play, but shortly thereafter shut down Anderson on another post attempt, staying with him for what seemed to be about seven different moves. --Capt.

Stats: 9min 3pts (1-4, 1-2, 0-0) 2reb 2ast 0stl 0blk 1TO
Fredette ( D ) -- in to start the second and blown right by on defense, missed a jumper and struggled once more. Finally did something positve with an open corner three from Salmons as this time we tried to protect his handle a bit by haivng either Reke or Salmons on the court to bring th ball up while Jimmer was mostly off ball.--Brick

Stats: 13min 0pts (0-0, 0-0, 0-0) 3reb 1ast 0stl 0blk 0TO
Hayes ( INC ) -- Chuck played 13 minutes, and I have few if any notes. It was as if he was in the game, but he wasn't in the game. He did grab 3 rebounds, but thats about it. I'm not sure how anyone would grade that. I certainly can't give him a B or a A because he set a couple of good screens. So to be fair to him I went with an INC. --Baja

Stats: 2min 2pts (1-2, 0-0, 0-0) 0reb 0ast 0stl 0blk 1TO
Patterson ( INC ) -- He played a grand total of 2 minutes. Not sure why, but my gut tells me that practice or not, he would have been better than Johnson, who once again was just terrible. I could go on, but since I'm not grading him, I won't. Hopefully we'll see more of Patterson in the next game. --Baja
 
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MT is horrible. Just jacks up everything. He might be one of the most selfish players in NBA history. Evans is garbage. Can't finish. Just plays street ball. Can't run a break to save his life.

I guess Coach Dumb couldn't play the new guys because we are in the middle of a heated playoff race and they don't know our system yet. System.....LOLOLOLOLOLOL!!! What a freaking JOKE. I was so excited to watch the game today and we get blown out AND I don't get to see PP play. UNREAL!
 
MT is horrible. Just jacks up everything. He might be one of the most selfish players in NBA history. Evans is garbage. Can't finish. Just plays street ball. Can't run a break to save his life.

I guess Coach Dumb couldn't play the new guys because we are in the middle of a heated playoff race and they don't know our system yet. System.....LOLOLOLOLOLOL!!! What a freaking JOKE. I was so excited to watch the game today and we get blown out AND I don't get to see PP play. UNREAL!

Evans is one of the best at the rim finishers in the league. Not tonight but let's no forget that
 
Evans is one of the best at the rim finishers in the league. Not tonight but let's no forget that

Not lately he hasn't been. I'm beginning to see what he is all about. Low basketball IQ. No leadership ability. Doesn't see the floor well. Bad jump shot. He basically just plays street ball. Doesn't help the team at all.
 
Not lately he hasn't been. I'm beginning to see what he is all about. Low basketball IQ. No leadership ability. Doesn't see the floor well. Bad jump shot. He basically just plays street ball. Doesn't help the team at all.

Your reactionary nature is not very becoming.
 
Everytime teams play the Kings it's way harder for them to miss than to score due to our pathetic defense. I thought we had serious issues on offense but its got to the point where I'm suprised when a team misses a shot/layyup against invisable defense.

Its the same old story getting nothing out of the bench and most the SG's/SF's on the team completely failing it all aspects of basketball.

Btw am I the only one who thinks Douglas right now would be a better back up PG than Jimmer? I watched TD in Houston and the dude can defend really well and is money from the 3 point line.
 
Everytime teams play the Kings it's way harder for them to miss than to score due to our pathetic defense. I thought we had serious issues on offense but its got to the point where I'm suprised when a team misses a shot/layyup against invisable defense.

Its the same old story getting nothing out of the bench and most the SG's/SF's on the team completely failing it all aspects of basketball.

Btw am I the only one who thinks Douglas right now would be a better back up PG than Jimmer? I watched TD in Houston and the dude can defend really well and is money from the 3 point line.

No you're not the only one. But so would Aaron Brooks, and he's been mysteriously completely absent.

In this game we actually tried to have Reke and Salmons cover for Jimmer as main ballhandlers while he was out there, so he was kind of playing at least half off the ball.
 
The bench is a mess. Swapping out Brooks, or Douglas for Jimmer would do little to improve it. It could make it worse.

It starts with the starters rotation. We are the only team in the league that consistently leaves all 5 starters in for just about every first quarter. We need to stagger the sub pattern a LITTLE bit more. At some point, all bench players may be on the court together, but that should be a 2-3 minute stretch, not 6-10 minutes. We also have 0 paint presence on offense or defense with the bench unit. Anything Hayes is able to do defensively is way over shadowed by the fact that he can't rebound or do anything on offense. Patterson will help the offense part, but the rebounding will be as bad as ever.

I also think it might be smart to move Salmons back to that bench role. Have him run the bench with Thornton as his off guard. The roster is pretty ****ed right now, so I guess you'd have to start James Johnson at the 3, which would improve our defense and rebounding. It may slightly effect our offense negatively, but Salmons wasn't giving us much until tonight, anyway. Johnson can start and still only get 20mpg. I would be fine with it.

The Celtics signed Terrence Williams a few days ago, which still pisses me off. He's a good player. I'd take him over half the guys on this roster.
 
The bench is a mess. Swapping out Brooks, or Douglas for Jimmer would do little to improve it. It could make it worse.

It starts with the starters rotation. We are the only team in the league that consistently leaves all 5 starters in for just about every first quarter. We need to stagger the sub pattern a LITTLE bit more. At some point, all bench players may be on the court together, but that should be a 2-3 minute stretch, not 6-10 minutes. We also have 0 paint presence on offense or defense with the bench unit. Anything Hayes is able to do defensively is way over shadowed by the fact that he can't rebound or do anything on offense. Patterson will help the offense part, but the rebounding will be as bad as ever.

I also think it might be smart to move Salmons back to that bench role. Have him run the bench with Thornton as his off guard. The roster is pretty ****ed right now, so I guess you'd have to start James Johnson at the 3, which would improve our defense and rebounding. It may slightly effect our offense negatively, but Salmons wasn't giving us much until tonight, anyway. Johnson can start and still only get 20mpg. I would be fine with it.

The Celtics signed Terrence Williams a few days ago, which still pisses me off. He's a good player. I'd take him over half the guys on this roster.

Kind of says something about our squad when a guy who spent the first 50 NBA games in China would easily be the best SF on the team.

As myself and many have said, I do think we have a playoff capable core intact here with the right leadership/coaching. IT, Reke, Cousins, JT, Thornton, and Patterson have all at one point shown they can be high profile players/ support guys. The problem we're running into is these guys new a leader to point them in the right direction which is totally non-existant from Smart.
 
MT is horrible. Just jacks up everything. He might be one of the most selfish players in NBA history. Evans is garbage. Can't finish. Just plays street ball. Can't run a break to save his life.

I guess Coach Dumb couldn't play the new guys because we are in the middle of a heated playoff race and they don't know our system yet. System.....LOLOLOLOLOLOL!!! What a freaking JOKE. I was so excited to watch the game today and we get blown out AND I don't get to see PP play. UNREAL!

You had me at MT is horrible...

...Then lost me with the nonsense about Reke.
 
The Celtics signed Terrence Williams a few days ago, which still pisses me off. He's a good player. I'd take him over half the guys on this roster.

This upsets me too. TWill was very effective during his time here and quite honestly, he'd probably be one of our 2 or 3 best players off the bench if he were still here. Well, maybe even our starting 3 to be honest.
 
Tyreke was awful this game, no excuses. I wish he would just attempt to dunk the ball more often instead of laying it up. When you go up strong you're more likely to get foul calls. He's always trying to avoid the contact to put up funky layups.
 
It is hyperbole to say MT is horrible, but his mentality sure is. I don't doubt it's developed because he starts on the bench. But it's not good basketball just to throw up everything you touch.

Think about it though, of course there are some, but how many "great" looks does MT actually get, his skill is his deep shooting and most of the time we just ISO him at the three point line, he isn't particularly good off the dribble and a standing start contested three where your defender is 2 inches infront of your face is a bad shot for Ray Allen.

Nothing is easy for him. It's the same for Jimmer, yeah he does get some good looks, mostly in transition and broken plays, but you've got someone renowned for their deep shooting and we use him to bring the ball up (something he's proven he can't do,) and create off the dribble (where he's extremely hit and miss.)

there really is just no logic to our play, i've given up analysing players because what we're seeing is a collection of players all playing anti to their skills.

Even the greatest players would struggle on this team, Lebron would just be an ISO machine here, he'd probably get 30 a night but i bet we'd lose a lot.

It comes down to the fact that the coaching staff, this far into the season, has been unable or unwilling to recognise the strengths of our individuals, or the players are completely ignoring a fantastic coaching system and deciding to play like crap.

I think i know which is more likely but who knows at this point. And as for the crying and whining and bitching on the sideline, good lord, just play the damn game. We all get it's frustrating but the atmosphere is just toxic, especially when it bleeds onto the court, have it out in the locker room great, but you're there to win games not sulk and cry this is professional sport.
 
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It is hyperbole to say MT is horrible, but his mentality sure is. I don't doubt it's developed because he starts on the bench. But it's not good basketball just to throw up everything you touch.

Think about it though, of course there are some, but how many "great" looks does MT actually get, his skill is his deep shooting and most of the time we just ISO him at the three point line, he isn't particularly good off the dribble and a standing start contested three where your defender is 2 inches infront of your face is a bad shot for Ray Allen.

Nothing is easy for him. It's the same for Jimmer, yeah he does get some good looks, mostly in transition and broken plays, but you've got someone renowned for their deep shooting and we use him to bring the ball up (something he's proven he can't do,) and create off the dribble (where he's extremely hit and miss.)

there really is just no logic to our play, i've given up analysing players because i what we're seeing is a collection of players all playing anti to their skills.

Even the greatest players would struggle on this team, Lebron would just be an ISO machine here, he'd probably get 30 a night but i bet we'd lose a lot.

It comes down to the fact that the coaching staff, this far into the season, has been unable or unwilling to recognise the strengths of our individuals, or the players are completely ignoring a fantastic coaching system and deciding to play like crap.

I think i know which is more likely but who knows at this point. And as for the crying and whining and bitching on the sideline, good lord, just play the damn game. We all get it's frustrating but the atmosphere is just toxic, especially when it bleeds onto the court, have it out in the locker room great, but you're there to win games not sulk and cry this is professional sport.

First post you've made in a while where I completely agree with you. Spot on.
 
Everytime teams play the Kings it's way harder for them to miss than to score due to our pathetic defense. I thought we had serious issues on offense but its got to the point where I'm suprised when a team misses a shot/layyup against invisable defense.

Its the same old story getting nothing out of the bench and most the SG's/SF's on the team completely failing it all aspects of basketball.

Btw am I the only one who thinks Douglas right now would be a better back up PG than Jimmer? I watched TD in Houston and the dude can defend really well and is money from the 3 point line.

I don't know about money from the 3 pt line, but he's head and shoulder's above Jimmer on D. If I recall, he was SEC Defensive Player of the Year.
 
Regarding Thornton, unless you're a legit superstar, I have a hard time with any player taking 3 point shots when they are guarded, unless the shot clock is running down. That is just lazy basketball. Unfortunately, Thornton does that a lot. Is it all his fault? Probably not. This offensive "system" has very little movement off the ball. Guys just take turns with the ball while the four others stand there waiting to get a possible kick-out. But with Thornton, he actually dribbles into a 3 point shot and takes it while guarded. That's inefficient, selfish, lazy basketball. When he hits some of those shots everybody gets excited about him, but that's low percentage basketball that is only good for losing.
 
Regarding Thornton, unless you're a legit superstar, I have a hard time with any player taking 3 point shots when they are guarded, unless the shot clock is running down. That is just lazy basketball. Unfortunately, Thornton does that a lot. Is it all his fault? Probably not. This offensive "system" has very little movement off the ball. Guys just take turns with the ball while the four others stand there waiting to get a possible kick-out. But with Thornton, he actually dribbles into a 3 point shot and takes it while guarded. That's inefficient, selfish, lazy basketball. When he hits some of those shots everybody gets excited about him, but that's low percentage basketball that is only good for losing.

Whoa this thread is going strong! I agree with Kingster! Thornton does this a lot, IT does it a lot too. In IT's case he's not as closely guarded as MT because the defender expects him to drive, but when a guy takes a 3 pointer with more than 16 seconds on the shotclock without passing it to anyone that's low percentage, losing basketball as well. If we want to really utilize Thornton's outside shooting we should be running him off screens and what not. But such plays are too complicated for Keith Smart to draw up.
 
Another day another loss.

This did not get out of control until the end, but there were certain gamelong trends that hurt us throughout:

1) Tyreke had a just awful game trying to finish inside. The Hornets were uncharacteristically all over the interior defensively and even when not blocked Reke looked uncomfortable and blew layup after layup. Ironically at the end of the game when he just threw up a couple of threes in desperation time, he hit those.
2) the Hornets absolutely punished Isaiah Thomas with Grevis Vasquez all night. Sometimes Isaiah's size is just a footnote that comes into play here and there. But Monty Williams made it an absolute storyline as they posted Vasquez, used picks on Isaiah, and just killed our defense with that all night. IT and DeMarcus got into it on the sidelines in the third and it seemed to be about the defense, although cannot be sure. Reke had to step between them, Patterson tried to exert his Boogie influence etc.
3) our brilliant coach got so scared of Ryan Anderson, who as usual lit us up as a hometown surprise, that he chose to play James Johnson (15min 0pts 1reb 4fls) for extended stretches rather than Jason Thompson (28min 16pts (8-11FG) 9reb), who was the most efficient offensive player on the team tonight.
4) not all game, but John Salmons went on a career hot streak from 3pt land in the 3rd/early 4th quarter. Unfortunately us being us, we did not understand it, and rather than saying aha! Salmons is hot standing still with his feet set at the three point line! We in predictable fashion said Salmons is just hot! And began to call clearouts and isos and pick plays for him to throw up a variety of garbage off his own dribble. Except he never once all game hit a single shot like that. He hit 6 standstill threes, and not one of the other junk shots that we, or he, forcefed him as he was 0-8 otherwise.
5) Barely got to see Patterson in the final 2min of garbagetime.

And...we lost. Still no girls. Just another loss. 25 more games to no more Maloofs.

and this is where even a moderately good coach is of the utmost importance. monty williams had a gameplan designed specifically to exploit a sacramento weakness on defense. i wish anyone in a kings uni could set a damn pick for tyreke about as half as well as the hornets screened off isaiah thomas all game long. but then again, it's not difficult to flummox an undersized guard like thomas, hence my insistence on his 6th man ceiling...
 
This is the first "play" we ran for MT last night.

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It was a turnover.

I just don't see how this is a good play for him.
 
This is the first "play" we ran for MT last night.

iXfLx4HX5rPR9.png


It was a turnover.

I just don't see how this is a good play for him.

LOL. You have at least 3 guys just standing there watching him. 20 seconds on the shot clock. Unfortunately, this is the kind of stuff Coach Dumb runs all the time. The big problem with MT is that just about every time he touches the ball he's looking to jack up a shot. I'd say about 40-50% of his shot attempts are completely ill-advised. They are shots that a good coach like Pop would yank him out immediately and scream at him on the sideline.
 
LOL. You have at least 3 guys just standing there watching him. 20 seconds on the shot clock. Unfortunately, this is the kind of stuff Coach Dumb runs all the time. The big problem with MT is that just about every time he touches the ball he's looking to jack up a shot. I'd say about 40-50% of his shot attempts are completely ill-advised. They are shots that a good coach like Pop would yank him out immediately and scream at him on the sideline.

Smart won't do that cause he doesn't want anybody to get mad at him, he tries to hard to be buddy buddy with everybody. We thought we were away from the Westie's 1-4 flat, but we run it more and more now. Why can't Smart put some motion into the offense. Have Reke or IT at top and have all the "shooters" run and try to get open, Cuz and Thompson can set some screens and free them up. It's can't be that hard to add that into the game plan cause their is no DAMN game plan other than Chuck it here, there, and anywhere
 
Our offense consists of a lot of PnR's (which we are bad at. Guys never roll hard because they know they won't get the ball, and the majority of our screens are bad) or ISO's.

We would all like a better, more complex offense - but a part of me also feels like this group would have a hard time running anything. The pieces don't fit, and we just don't have the 'basketball IQ' to run much of anything. This team needs to be smarter. You would HOPE the coach is educating his players, but I don't know that he is. It's also possible the players have just tuned him out at this point.

We need impact veteran leadership. Not guys like Cisco or Hayes who get 10 minutes a night. Not a guy like Salmons who has never been anything close to a leader, and is well past his prime.
 
Our offense consists of a lot of PnR's (which we are bad at. Guys never roll hard because they know they won't get the ball, and the majority of our screens are bad) or ISO's.

We would all like a better, more complex offense - but a part of me also feels like this group would have a hard time running anything. The pieces don't fit, and we just don't have the 'basketball IQ' to run much of anything. This team needs to be smarter. You would HOPE the coach is educating his players, but I don't know that he is. It's also possible the players have just tuned him out at this point.

You know, I wish had games from a month ago taped, because I've had a suspicion forming that I can't confirm wihtout watching the older games and comparing. But:

a) do you remember where Cousins went on that monster tear throught the first 2/3 of January?

b) do you remember when just very abruptly it ended dramatically, and there were rumors he was not happy, and then those cryptic quotes where he said he wasn't the problem, it was what it was, and more recently mockingly saying "gotta do what coach wants?"

c) do you remember the interveiw where Isaiah was saying something about his reent upturn in play being because we were running a lot of pick and rolls, and he excelled in the pick and roll (for himself largely)

d) do you remember the several times recently where there has appeared to be tension o the court betwen Isaiah and Cousins

e) have you noticed our play style and defensive collapse beginning to resemble what it was last year under Smart/IT again?


Now...I would have to go back and watch. But I have this suspicion that something changed, and that it was our brilliant coach who changed it. Specifically Cuz was on a roll, IT was struggling...and my suspicion would possibly be that Smart changed the mix of the offense to get more and more pick and rolls with IT involved to play to IT rather than clearouts for Cuz. I can't prove that without comparing several games from mid Jan to several more recent games, but I wonder.
 
I agree this team has a low basketball IQ but it's about reps. There would be teething pains but if you're running your sets 5000 times a day in practice eventually it goes in.

When you look at someone like Tony Parker, does he ever stand still? Almost NEVER. Yes he's in the most seamless offense in the league but you have to want to be great too. I do feel there are a few players in this team who just want to see 20 points next to their name in the box score and couldn't care less about anything else.
 
You know, I wish had games from a month ago taped, because I've had a suspicion forming that I can't confirm wihtout watching the older games and comparing. But:

a) do you remember where Cousins went on that monster tear throught the first 2/3 of January?

b) do you remember when just very abruptly it ended dramatically, and there were rumors he was not happy, and then those cryptic quotes where he said he wasn't the problem, it was what it was, and more recently mockingly saying "gotta do what coach wants?"

c) do you remember the interveiw where Isaiah was saying something about his reent upturn in play being because we were running a lot of pick and rolls, and he excelled in the pick and roll (for himself largely)

d) do you remember the several times recently where there has appeared to be tension o the court betwen Isaiah and Cousins

e) have you noticed our play style and defensive collapse beginning to resemble what it was last year under Smart/IT again?


Now...I would have to go back and watch. But I have this suspicion that something changed, and that it was our brilliant coach who changed it. Specifically Cuz was on a roll, IT was struggling...and my suspicion would possibly be that Smart changed the mix of the offense to get more and more pick and rolls with IT involved to play to IT rather than clearouts for Cuz. I can't prove that without comparing several games from mid Jan to several more recent games, but I wonder.

IT

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CUZ

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You know, I wish had games from a month ago taped, because I've had a suspicion forming that I can't confirm wihtout watching the older games and comparing. But:

a) do you remember where Cousins went on that monster tear throught the first 2/3 of January?

b) do you remember when just very abruptly it ended dramatically, and there were rumors he was not happy, and then those cryptic quotes where he said he wasn't the problem, it was what it was, and more recently mockingly saying "gotta do what coach wants?"

c) do you remember the interveiw where Isaiah was saying something about his reent upturn in play being because we were running a lot of pick and rolls, and he excelled in the pick and roll (for himself largely)

d) do you remember the several times recently where there has appeared to be tension o the court betwen Isaiah and Cousins

e) have you noticed our play style and defensive collapse beginning to resemble what it was last year under Smart/IT again?


Now...I would have to go back and watch. But I have this suspicion that something changed, and that it was our brilliant coach who changed it. Specifically Cuz was on a roll, IT was struggling...and my suspicion would possibly be that Smart changed the mix of the offense to get more and more pick and rolls with IT involved to play to IT rather than clearouts for Cuz. I can't prove that without comparing several games from mid Jan to several more recent games, but I wonder.

Do you have League Pass Broadband? I think everyone who has LP has broadband, they just need to activate it. Every game is archived. If I can find the specific games during the Cousins stretch you were talking about I might go back and check them out when I have some free time, and see what our PnR looked like.
 
I just watched the first Q (yes, small sample) of the triple double game, and one thing that is immediately noticeable, Tyreke isn't playing and thus Salmons is handling the ball a lot more running the PR with Cuz, we're hitting Salmons up top a lot and letting him dictate, he pitches to IT a couple of times who drives with success.

The offense looks very similar apart from that MT is still forcing horrible shots, we're still hitting Cuz at the elbow, IT is playing very well with 10 points off dribble drives and defending rondo out of the game.

the defense is clearly a lot more energetic.
 
LOL. You have at least 3 guys just standing there watching him. 20 seconds on the shot clock. Unfortunately, this is the kind of stuff Coach Dumb runs all the time. The big problem with MT is that just about every time he touches the ball he's looking to jack up a shot. I'd say about 40-50% of his shot attempts are completely ill-advised. They are shots that a good coach like Pop would yank him out immediately and scream at him on the sideline.
lOL. you hit a couple of nails right on the head. I criticize Thornton for this but what the hell is supposed to do - a designated scorer and nobody will pass him the bs all. Of course when he does get it he sure as hell going to shoot and he does.
 
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