[Grades] Grades v. Hawks 3/9/2015

[bajaden]

Funny thing about Rudy Gay is that whenever he scores a lot its not big deal. Wingspan OP.

Agreed, but it should be. Especially when he doesn't even try. It's one thing to be beat off the dribble, or make a mistake on defense, but quite another to not even put any effort into playing defense. What I saw last night was totally disgusting. And I'm a big fan of Rudy's. If he keeps playing defense like he did last night, his poster will come down.

 

[swisshh]

Instead of girls, might I suggest half-finished building projects? Communist countries have a delightful array of these and it fits nicely into the current Kings mantra.

 

[rainmaker]

• 
  
• I'm never going to trip about Cousins bringing the ball up the court in transition, ever again. I watched us go what felt like four straight possessions in the first quarter where Cousins didn't touch the ball on offense. Then, I decided to keep count in the second quarter, and watched as we went seven straight possession without Cousins getting a single touch on offense. And, if the Hawks hadn't gotten into the penalty, it would have been eleven straight possessions where Cousins didn't touch the ball on offense. Not surprisingly, once they finally started getting Cousins the ball, we scored on, like, five straight possessions, and Cousins either scored or assisted on all five.
  • I can't help but remember Doug Christie's comments during one of the previous post games about how, if he noticed that they went three possessions without Webber touching the ball, he'd go out of his way to make sure that Webb touched the ball on the very next offensive possession. D'Alessandro acquiring somebody to be Cousins' "Christie" would be a damned good start.

A Christie type would help, as would less selfish perimeter players but this is also a product of this system. Karl wants guys being aggressive, if you have a good look, shoot it, play with tempo. That naturally limits the touches Cuz will get and is one of the main reasons for wanting a slower, half court system where Cuz is the focal point.

I just don't see how we're ever going to maximize Cuz with the philosophy of our FO and with the current system Karl is employing. Can anyone point to a dominant big in Cuz's mold who's been maximized in an up-tempo system where the intent is to push for the first good shot rather than slowing it down, play through the big and have him create looks in half court sets?

Put Marc Gasol in this current system and he wouldn't be maximized nearly as much as he is Memphis. I'd also argue Cuz is increasingly looking tired out there. Part is probably his ankle, but part is also the tempo we've played at since Malone got canned.

I'm pretty f'ing sick and tired of seeing everyone from Ray to Nik to DWill to Omri, even Rudy at this point jacking up jumper after jumper without waiting for Cuz to set up in the post, space the floor and play off him.

Edit: I'm holding out hope after summer free agency and a training camp, Karl gets this right. I'm far from convinced though and am seeing red flags.

 

[rainmaker]

Instead of girls, might I suggest half-finished building projects? Communist countries have a delightful array of these and it fits nicely into the current Kings mantra.

Lol, I've spent a fair amount of time traveling in some former Communist countries in Eastern Europe and yes, unfinished buildings are a considerable part of the landscape. There's no rhyme or reason to construction in certain parts over there, not until you consider the mafia anyway.

The women in those countries however fit a "girls" theme pretty well....

 

[sdballer]

A Christie type would help, as would less selfish perimeter players but this is also a product of this system. Karl wants guys being aggressive, if you have a good look, shoot it, play with tempo. That naturally limits the touches Cuz will get and is one of the main reasons for wanting a slower, half court system where Cuz is the focal point.

I just don't see how we're ever going to maximize Cuz with the philosophy of our FO and with the current system Karl is employing. Can anyone point to a dominant big in Cuz's mold who's been maximized in an up-tempo system where the intent is to push for the first good shot rather than slowing it down, play through the big and have him create looks in half court sets?

Put Marc Gasol in this current system and he wouldn't be maximized nearly as much as he is Memphis. I'd also argue Cuz is increasingly looking tired out there. Part is probably his ankle, but part is also the tempo we've played at since Malone got canned.

I'm pretty f'ing sick and tired of seeing everyone from Ray to Nik to DWill to Omri, even Rudy at this point jacking up jumper after jumper without waiting for Cuz to set up in the post, space the floor and play off him.

Edit: I'm holding out hope after summer free agency and a training camp, Karl gets this right. I'm far from convinced though and am seeing red flags.

This is why I'm so focused on the system. Our best players aren't suited well for the system Vivek has latched on to since day 1 and I fear we'll continue to see this until they try to get their kinds of players rather than build a system around our talent.

Not only will that mean another rebuild without cuz but I don't think that's the ideal way to build a contender.

 

[pshn80]

Kkkkk

A Christie type would help, as would less selfish perimeter players but this is also a product of this system. Karl wants guys being aggressive, if you have a good look, shoot it, play with tempo. That naturally limits the touches Cuz will get and is one of the main reasons for wanting a slower, half court system where Cuz is the focal point.

I just don't see how we're ever going to maximize Cuz with the philosophy of our FO and with the current system Karl is employing. Can anyone point to a dominant big in Cuz's mold who's been maximized in an up-tempo system where the intent is to push for the first good shot rather than slowing it down, play through the big and have him create looks in half court sets?

Put Marc Gasol in this current system and he wouldn't be maximized nearly as much as he is Memphis. I'd also argue Cuz is increasingly looking tired out there. Part is probably his ankle, but part is also the tempo we've played at since Malone got canned.

I'm pretty f'ing sick and tired of seeing everyone from Ray to Nik to DWill to Omri, even Rudy at this point jacking up jumper after jumper without waiting for Cuz to set up in the post, space the floor and play off him.

Edit: I'm holding out hope after summer free agency and a training camp, Karl gets this right. I'm far from convinced though and am seeing red flags.

I'm not sure but I suspect we will do better in the long run to have all on them take the good shots they get rather rely more on getting the ball into Cuz. When we did the Cuz this for a brief while we saw Cuz score a lot but the team didn't score that well. Cuz is looking better to me because he is passing out a little bit more readily. When one say's "Karl's system" it should be recognized that it changes a little bit every day and over the long run.

For my part a team is better off moving the ball soundly with understanding that will take the good shot when they get it while of course getting different people on a select basis. Getting the ball into Cuz each is easier to defend than the other. Agree that getting folks to learn what are good shots for themselves is not an easy deal but one they need to learn.

 

[pshn80]

Lol, I've spent a fair amount of time traveling in some former Communist countries in Eastern Europe and yes, unfinished buildings are a considerable part of the landscape. There's no rhyme or reason to construction in certain parts over there, not until you consider the mafia anyway.

The women in those countries however fit a "girls" theme pretty well....

In our traveling around Sicily some years ago the sight of old unfinished concrete farmhouses was frequent. Our guide explained that the mafia had a corner on the concrete business for many many decades and if you built you built with concrete. Wired spectacle regardless of gender.

 

[Bricklayer]

Kkkkk


I'm not sure but I suspect we will do better in the long run to have all on them take the good shots they get rather rely more on getting the ball into Cuz. When we did the Cuz this for a brief while we saw Cuz score a lot but the team didn't score that well. Cuz is looking better to me because he is passing out a little bit more readily. When one say's "Karl's system" it should be recognized that it changes a little bit every day and over the long run.

For my part a team is better off moving the ball soundly with understanding that will take the good shot when they get it while of course getting different people on a select basis. Getting the ball into Cuz each is easier to defend than the other. Agree that getting folks to learn what are good shots for themselves is not an easy deal but one they need to learn.

We flat win when Cuz shoots and scores more, passes less. If team;s slow his interior dominance, we are toast. We don;t have perimeter weapons to make up for that.

Cuz In Wins: 25.2pts 2.6ast 35.2usg%
Cuz in Losses: 22.2pts 3.6ast 32.5usg%

We need him kicking butt and taking names inside. He's almost the only piece we have capable of doimg it.

 

[ArcoKings]

The Eastern European unfinished buildings idea fits perfect with the Kings' current situation. The following is a team pic of the 2014/2015 Sacramento Kings:

 

[Bricklayer]

The Eastern European unfinished buildings idea fits perfect with the Kings' current situation. The following is a team pic of the 2014/2015 Sacramento Kings:

I think this might be closer. The building was nearing completion, nothing fancy, but sturdy and functional, and then some arrogant ass came along and decided drop a bomb into it for aesthetics.

 

[swisshh]

damn brick, that's a little dark

My allegory has more to do with the community pride and hope existing upon higher-ups pointing to a unfinished structure rather than any actual progress with what concerns folk.

anyways, brutalism gogo

China has some unfinished public works as well. Harder to find images of though.

 

[Prince_XY]

Blowing leads? All Malones fault, right? Karl blew a 16 point lead against Miami. Must be his rotations.

There is a big difference.

Karl started when clearly it will take a miracle to be in the playoffs. The biggest incentive to play inspired basketball is GONE. It started to vanish with Malone and continued with Corbin on the helm.

The players, coach Karl, and FO/Vivek know that. I think you should know that too if you are a smart guy. We should all stop playing stupid, as if coach Karl can do anything to make this team play to their fullest potential. It will now be impossible for any coach to get this team to play winning basketball. Well, maybe in some games they will. But for the remaining games of this season it will be like watching practice games. It will all be about teaching and evaluating our players. So, braced yourself for more of this kind of disheartening games.

 

[King Baller]

I finally watched this game on the DVR late last night. Even with Brick's warning against such post beat down viewing

That Hawks team is something special! Barring injury I see them going deep into the Playoffs. I think they set some kind of records for assists and three pointers completed

As for the Kings I am not too worried since I think the Front Office is going to flip many of the Players currently on the Kings this summer. I hope they get it right this time.

KB

 

[King Baller]

By the way, Danny Ferry has put together a good cast of Players. I saw the Hawks referred to as the "Spurs East". Ferry has spent considerable time working in the Spurs Front Office.

He deserves credit for building the Hawks even if he used poor judgement reading that scouting report out loud at a meeting.

 

[206Fan]

You can fault everyone on this team for defensive effort..except for Ray. Let's be honest, when's the last time since Cuz's pre-injury that we've actually played defense? And TRIED? I've questioned the effort before, but it's funny that it finally gets attention 3 months later.


Rudy is a great piece on any team, but I don't know how Rudy-Cuz can work out long term. Cuz is a top 5 usage player.

 

[Mr. S£im Citrus]

You can fault everyone on this team for defensive effort..except for Ray.

That's funny, from my seats in Phillips Monday night, I thought that Thompson was the only guy making any effort to play defense.

 

[VF21]

That's funny, from my seats in Phillips Monday night, I thought that Thompson was the only guy making any effort to play defense.

Ah, but you know the "rule"around here. One cannot praise Jason Thompson... Silly Slim.

 

[206Fan]

That's funny, from my seats in Phillips Monday night, I thought that Thompson was the only guy making any effort to play defense.

Yep by leaving 3pt shooters open. JT is a great on man defender, but he can't guard stretch 4s

 

[Mr. S£im Citrus]

Be that as it may, he was still trying harder on defense than anyone else in purple on Monday night, IMO.

 

[bajaden]

We flat win when Cuz shoots and scores more, passes less. If team;s slow his interior dominance, we are toast. We don;t have perimeter weapons to make up for that.

Cuz In Wins: 25.2pts 2.6ast 35.2usg%
Cuz in Losses: 22.2pts 3.6ast 32.5usg%

We need him kicking butt and taking names inside. He's almost the only piece we have capable of doimg it.

Just to play devils advocate, one could say that the problem isn't Cousins not getting enough shots, its that we don't have anyone else, other than Gay that can score consistently. So the question would be, if we had more good outside shooters, do you think it would still be necessary for Cuz to take as many shots? Wouldn't it be better to be more diverse, instead of putting all your eggs in one basket? Personally, what I think Karl should do, is try and find a way for Cuz to get easier shots, so he doesn't get beat up night after night. I don't think Cuz takes too many shots. I do think, that at times, he takes too many bad shots. Correct that, and we win more games.

 

[Bricklayer]

Just to play devils advocate, one could say that the problem isn't Cousins not getting enough shots, its that we don't have anyone else, other than Gay that can score consistently. So the question would be, if we had more good outside shooters, do you think it would still be necessary for Cuz to take as many shots? Wouldn't it be better to be more diverse, instead of putting all your eggs in one basket? Personally, what I think Karl should do, is try and find a way for Cuz to get easier shots, so he doesn't get beat up night after night. I don't think Cuz takes too many shots. I do think, that at times, he takes too many bad shots. Correct that, and we win more games.

No.

People around here have almost never seen greatness in a player. There is a consistent let's call it "communist" theory of basketball based on the theory that every mediocrity is due his shots. Well..he's not. Your best player needs to touch the ball absolutely every time you can get it to him until efficiency starts plummeting. In our wins Cousins is not only shooting more, he's actually HITTING more.

In any case, this isn't general basketball theory -- those numbers are our own Kings basketball reality. If Cuz was playing alongside LeBron James and Kevin Durant, as he may be in a few years after we lose him with our inexperience. Sure. Well, maybe. In a few years Cuz might be better than an aging LeBron too. But on our team? We do NOT have many talents. We've got exactly one player worthy of holding Cuz's jock, and then one other injured one who at least might be worthy of washing it. We need him to be great, because nobody else will. When he's not going we simply cannot generate enough offense honestly. And I use the term honestly there to mean this: for years and still today this stupid franchise has "faked" scoring ability by pushing the pace and running and open floor and a bunch of other garbage you do when you don't have any actual talent (a major concern with Karl since he did the same junk in Denver, does he remember how to play with a star?). The problem is you junk the game up for your offense, well the other team starts scoring more too. And for a decade straight we've lost these stupid shootouts. In order to actually WIN games, to score "honestly", we need Boogie to go big almost nightly. If he doesn't then we either don;t score, or we junkball and lose 120-105 or whatever.

 

[bajaden]

No.

People around here have almost never seen greatness in a player. There is a consistent let's call it "communist" theory of basketball based on the theory that every mediocrity is due his shots. Well..he's not. Your best player needs to touch the ball absolutely every time you can get it to him until efficiency starts plummeting. In our wins Cousins is not only shooting more, he's actually HITTING more.

In any case, this isn't general basketball theory -- those numbers are our own Kings basketball reality. If Cuz was playing alongside LeBron James and Kevin Durant, as he may be in a few years after we lose him with our inexperience. Sure. Well, maybe. In a few years Cuz might be better than an aging LeBron too. But on our team? We do NOT have many talents. We've got exactly one player worthy of holding Cuz's jock, and then one other injured one who at least might be worthy of washing it. We need him to be great, because nobody else will. When he's not going we simply cannot generate enough offense honestly. And I use the term honestly there to mean this: for years and still today this stupid franchise has "faked" scoring ability by pushing the pace and running and open floor and a bunch of other garbage you do when you don't have any actual talent (a major concern with Karl since he did the same junk in Denver, does he remember how to play with a star?). The problem is you junk the game up for your offense, well the other team starts scoring more too. And for a decade straight we've lost these stupid shootouts. In order to actually WIN games, to score "honestly", we need Boogie to go big almost nightly. If he doesn't then we either don;t score, or we junkball and lose 120-105 or whatever.

Believe it or not, we really don't disagree very much. No one is a bigger fan of Cousins than me, and far be it for me to try and take anything away from his game. Your argument is based on the current make up of the team, and from that point of view, I agree 100%. What I'm suggesting is that we change that make up, to better fit the system Karl is trying to implement, and to also make life easier for Cousins. Right now the focus of just about every teams defense is on Cousins. He's constantly double and tripled teamed. I would like to make the other team pay for that. If we can give him players to kick the ball to, that can consistently hit their outside shot, that will make teams think twice about leaving them open. We need players that can not only hit a damm shot, but also penetrate, and pass. In short, I'm not talking about reducing the number of shots Cousins takes, but making those shots easier. Upping his shooting percentage, where in fact, if he did take fewer shots, his points per game would remain the same, or even go up.

One of the reasons I was for drafting Stauskas was because of his skill set. I felt he was the type of player that would compliment Cousins. And no, I didn't expect it to happen immediately. Although he was a great shooter in college, he also played point forward a lot. He displayed excellent court vision. And he wasn't a chucker. He was very unselfish. I would love to surround Cousins with players that can score, but don't care if they score as long as they win. As far as Karl's system goes, I'll wait and see how it develops. I don't think we should put much stock in what were seeing right now. As I said before, I think what is happening now is nothing more than a audition for next season. Karl's teams in the past haven't necessarily been run and gun teams. They'd run when it was there, but they did a lot of half court sets as well. They relied more on passing the ball than dribbling the ball along with more player movement. But then I'm speaking to the choir.

 

[Mr. S£im Citrus]

People around here have almost never seen greatness in a player. There is a consistent let's call it "communist" theory of basketball based on the theory that every mediocrity is due his shots. Well..he's not. Your best player needs to touch the ball absolutely every time you can get it to him until efficiency starts plummeting. In our wins Cousins is not only shooting more, he's actually HITTING more.

Whether Cousins should be getting more shots or not, he absolutely needs to touch the ball on more offensive possessions. He's the only guy on the team that bends defenses. He's the only guy that the other team has to react to. His teammates need to make the conscious effort to put the ball in his hands, and trust that he's going to make the right decision with it, whether that means him immediately moving the ball along to the open man, taking a jumper, attacking the basket, or him waiting for the double, and passing back out.

At no time, in any game, regardless of whom we're playing, should we ever need two hands to count the number of consecutive possessions where Cousins doesn't at least touch the ball on offense.