[Grades] Grades v. Hawks 12/18/2013

[KingMilz]

One of Bruskis latest tweets.

@aaronbruski: After receiving plenty of IT2 hate, I took a spin through synergy. He was responsible for four points and one assist to Teague. Hate on.

Re-watching a lot of the 4th quarter and Cousins was just constantly in no mans land on the PnRs where Horford was just lighting us up.

Yeah in the 4th I did not understand Cousins defence at all he easily shut off Horford on drives/post ups so Horford had to settle for jump-shots I mean what else was he doing to do and I don't know maybe he was fatigued from literally doing everything past two nights he took the 4th quarter off. Cousins has shown the ability to adjust on offence he has to start adjusting a bit better on defence. The blame is on both IT and Cousins since pick n roll requires two people (at least) to defend.

I would like to see Cousins show on pick n rolls a bit more if he's capable of doing it but at the same time if he does it really hurts our rebounding it's a double edged sword but really they have to work on pick n roll D if they were want to be a winning team eventually. But yeah the pick n roll defence is just a major mess atm.

Hopefully next season we can surround IT/Gay/Cousins/Williams/Mclemore with tough defensive players.

 

[Capt. Factorial]

One of Bruskis latest tweets.

@aaronbruski: After receiving plenty of IT2 hate, I took a spin through synergy. He was responsible for four points and one assist to Teague. Hate on.

That's completely indefensible. Since I was taking notes, I've got:

1st Quarter: "overplay on Teague results in layup", "Teague hits contested jumper"...

Wait a second, that's four points in the first two defensive possessions I noted. I'll summarize the rest.

In the first half, Isaiah allowed 10 points on 8 shots to Teague (one missed shot was the halftime buzzer beater). In the second half, 7 points on 3/4 shots, four of those points on FTs (dropped a note, not sure who missed one 3 that IT was guarding, assume it was Teague). So I would say more like 17 points on 12 shots. As far as allowing Teague one assist - well, he was the only one guarding Teague all night. I don't think Jimmer shared any floor time with Teague. And Teague had to get those (generous) 15 assists somewhere.

It's possible that Synergy decides that once IT has been screened off his man, it's no longer his man and doesn't count. That hardly represents reality. IT's defense was not as bad as some have made it out to be here tonight (he's a poor defender but he has a tendency to get turned into a whipping-boy for it even when he doesn't earn it) but it was by no means great. And trying to assign 14 of Teague's 18 points and 14 of Teague's 15 assists to someone else just doesn't hold water.

 

[spudfan]

One of Bruskis latest tweets.

@aaronbruski: After receiving plenty of IT2 hate, I took a spin through synergy. He was responsible for four points and one assist to Teague. Hate on.

Re-watching a lot of the 4th quarter and Cousins was just constantly in no mans land on the PnRs where Horford was just lighting us up.

I just re-watched it too. There were 5 plays in a 5 minute stretch where Teague gets past IT with no effort and Cousins is forced to show. The first time it happened Cousins popped up too soon and Horford just went straight to the rim and got an easy two. That was really the only time he misplayed it. The next four times it happened Cousins stepped out at the correct time and place to prevent Teague from getting all the way to the hoop which gives Horford wide open looks due to good passing from Teague. If Cousins steps out too early like he did on the one play, Horford slips the screen and gets a layup. If it's too late Teague gets a layup. Someone else has to cover Horford, he can't both block the path to the basket and challenge the shot.

It's 4 on 5 during all of those plays which results in exactly what we saw the majority of the time.

 

[spudfan]

All of these pictures are from tonights game, during about a 3 minute span where Horford gets 4 open shots after Teague gets passed IT, then kicks it out. IT has to switch over to Horford after Cousins moves to cut of the line to the rim. Chasing him from behind/the side when Teague is ahead isn't going to do anything. IT needs to recognize he is no longer in a position to play defense when he on the side of his man, and his man is heading straight at the rim and get over and cover the person who screened him off.


Example 1: Cousins had just cut off Teague to prevent a layup. IT is standing behind Teague instead of cover Cousins man. Result: Horford knocks down an open jumper.

Example 2: Teague is clearly past IT again, Cousins is in position to prevent a layup. Teague passes to Horford next. Result: Horford knocks down a shot.

Example 3 - Part 1: IT gets screen off and is behind Teague. Cousins drops off Horford to stop penetration.

Example 3 - Part 2: Cousins is still in front of Teague. IT is at Teague's side and is clearly beat but doesn't switch off onto Horford. Result: Teague passes to Horford who hits an open jumper.

Example 4: Teague is clearly in front of IT, again. Cousins is there to deny penetration to the rim. This play unfolds like the others, Teague takes a couple more steps then passes to Horford who knocks down the shot.

 

[OnYouLikeGlue]

Some questions I have about the situations in the pictures:

1. Shouldn't we be trying to prevent the Teague from turning the corner off the screen in the first place?
2. Doesn't IT have to go over the screen and stay on Teague's hip to prevent him from getting open 18 footers? In all these pics Cousins is in the paint so if IT immediately drifts to Al doesn't Teague now get the wide open looks?
3. If we are going to play them soft like this isn't it a rotation defenders job to come over and cover Al?

 

[swisshh]

The next guy to rotate over to Horford would have been McLemore and he can't leave Korver open. He was already doing that too many times. They need to communicate the pick coming and ice it, or they need to recover far quicker.

 

[OnYouLikeGlue]

The next guy to rotate over to Horford would have been McLemore and he can't leave Korver open. He was already doing that too many times. They need to communicate the pick coming and ice it, or they need to recover far quicker.

Obviously they dont want to leave Korver, so isn't that where rotations come into play? The next guy should be coming over to cover for Ben?

Or couldn't they just shut off the initial penetration by having the big come up farther preventing the pg from getting the corner?

 

[mac]

Obviously they dont want to leave Korver, so isn't that where rotations come into play? The next guy should be coming over to cover for Ben?

Or couldn't they just shut off the initial penetration by having the big come up farther preventing the pg from getting the corner?

Or...IT could try staying in front of his man for once. Heck, why is it that even Jimmer doesn't just get screened off? Watch the pick and roll defense when Jimmer was in the game. It sure wasn't perfect but the guard was not getting such an easy lane to the basket like Teague was.

Additionally, what you're saying would imply one of the guys from the corners coming all the way out to help on Horford. If they pick up Teague it gives the Hawks an open corner 3. It starts at the point when IT gets picked off ans trails the play.. once that is mishandled any good offense will move the ball and have the defense scrambling to rotate.

 

[OnYouLikeGlue]

Or...IT could try staying in front of his man for once. Heck, why is it that even Jimmer doesn't just get screened off? Watch the pick and roll defense when Jimmer was in the game. It sure wasn't perfect but the guard was not getting such an easy lane to the basket like Teague was.

Additionally, what you're saying would imply one of the guys from the corners coming all the way out to help on Horford. If they pick up Teague it gives the Hawks an open corner 3. It starts at the point when IT gets picked off ans trails the play.. once that is mishandled any good offense will move the ball and have the defense scrambling to rotate.

Isn't the point of a screen to get the player with the ball free from his defender? How is IT supposed to "stay in front of his man" if Horford is setting a good screen? Don't you either go over or under the screen?

And I rewatched Jimmers minutes, the few times they ran pick n rolls against him (Teague wasn't in the game) the D had the same problems.

 

[Honolulu Kings Fan]

Pick and Roll Defense Videos: http://youth.usab.com/practice-time/defense/Video-Tip--Defending-the-Pick-and-Roll.htm

I didn't watch this game admittedly, but why is Cousins so far from the screen in every screenshot? How is IT supposed to defend the screen by himself that's 2v1 up there, he can't just run through the screener and he can't make up the distance gained from the screen to get back on his man if Cousins doesn't even show at all to slow the ball handler down.. doesn't make a lot of sense to me.

Tried to find a clip of defending the pick here's one from the Mavs game at 1min 50secs:

Cousins is lower than the free throw line for a screen and re-screen. If instead of Vince Carter that's a younger shooter that's an easy open three or long two. Only if you're forcing them baseline and away from the screen should the offball defender be so far away from the play and in the paint (ICE in the last video also the last D shown by Izzo in the first link).

 

[mac]

Pick and Roll Defense Videos: http://youth.usab.com/practice-time/defense/Video-Tip--Defending-the-Pick-and-Roll.htm

I didn't watch this game admittedly, but why is Cousins so far from the screen in every screenshot? How is IT supposed to defend the screen by himself that's 2v1 up there, he can't just run through the screener and he can't make up the distance gained from the screen to get back on his man if Cousins doesn't even show at all to slow the ball handler down.. doesn't make a lot of sense to me.

Tried to find a clip of defending the pick here's one from the Mavs game at 1min 50secs:

Cousins is lower than the free throw line for a screen and re-screen. If instead of Vince Carter that's a younger shooter that's an easy open three or long two. Only if you're forcing them baseline and away from the screen should the offball defender be so far away from the play and in the paint (ICE in the last video also the last D shown by Izzo in the first link).

If you'd actually watched the videos you posted yourself you'll see that in all of them it's up to the perimeter defender to get over the screen, to not get caught in it. The whole problem is that IT gets picked off and trails the play, and then from there you can argue that our rotations break down one way or the other.

Also notice in the Mavs clip you posted how Outlaw switches to the big and stays between him and the ball? Compare that to where IT is against Horford. Also, every good defensive team in the NBA would happily "force" the other team into taking contested long twos or a dribble pull up 3.

 

[spudfan]

Isn't the point of a screen to get the player with the ball free from his defender? How is IT supposed to "stay in front of his man" if Horford is setting a good screen? Don't you either go over or under the screen?

And I rewatched Jimmers minutes, the few times they ran pick n rolls against him (Teague wasn't in the game) the D had the same problems.

I think none of them know what the other one is doing. IT gets picked off on really weak screens and Cousins sags back too far letting the man get in too deep. Cousins normally seems to plan on switching but IT is the opposite. Havoc everywhere.

 

[spudfan]

Has Malone ever talked about our strategy for defending against picks? I want to say the plan isn't to trap players as we never seem to see it... If it is then we are turrible at doing it.

 

[Honolulu Kings Fan]

If you'd actually watched the videos you posted yourself you'll see that in all of them it's up to the perimeter defender to get over the screen, to not get caught in it. The whole problem is that IT gets picked off and trails the play, and then from there you can argue that our rotations break down one way or the other.

Also notice in the Mavs clip you posted how Outlaw switches to the big and stays between him and the ball? Compare that to where IT is against Horford. Also, every good defensive team in the NBA would happily "force" the other team into taking contested long twos or a dribble pull up 3.

What a joke. Tell me which defense Cousins is playing from any of those videos. Cousins neither shows to stop the ball handler nor squeezes to stop the screener from rolling, but instead stays in the paint. And then you want Isaiah to magically get around or through a center or power forward who sets a screen right on him.

If you're so content in having the other team take the dribble pull up 3 or take the "contested" long two than we should have our on-ball defender just go under the ****ing screen instead of over the top. Pick and roll defense is not one man defense.

 

[mac]

Also, Outlaw at SG has to stop. It's a recipe for disaster.

 

[mac]

What a joke. Tell me which defense Cousins is playing from any of those videos. Cousins neither shows to stop the ball handler nor squeezes to stop the screener from rolling, but instead stays in the paint. And then you want Isaiah to magically get around or through a center or power forward who sets a screen right on him.

If you're so content in having the other team take the dribble pull up 3 or take the "contested" long two than we should have our on-ball defender just go under the ****ing screen instead of over the top. Pick and roll defense is not one man defense.

Wow. You must be an IT fan, because without even watching the game you get your panties in a bunch because I say IT isn't getting over the screens. No where did I say that pick and roll defense is one man defense. It happens every single game, regardless of who the big is. JT has shown plenty in similar situations and the resulting defense is still horrible because IT just trails the play. Also, having the guard go under the screen as opposed to having a big (Cousins in this case) switch and contest the shot is different. There is no one master strategy that stops all pick and rolls, and a lot of times teams will adjust depending on who the screener/guard is, whether a player is hot shooting from outside and things like that. Obviously with Steph Curry you need to show harder and definitely not go under and things like that.

 

[KingMilz]

Also, Outlaw at SG has to stop. It's a recipe for disaster.

I think the problem with Outlaw is he's playing with the bench mainly and he feels the need to be a go to guy when he's with the bench, if we are going to play Outlaw do it with the starters or don't do it at all, we are better off playing D-Will @SG/SF since Acy seems to be the back up PF at this point.

 

[spudfan]

Wow. You must be an IT fan, because without even watching the game you get your panties in a bunch because I say IT isn't getting over the screens. No where did I say that pick and roll defense is one man defense. It happens every single game, regardless of who the big is. JT has shown plenty in similar situations and the resulting defense is still horrible because IT just trails the play. Also, having the guard go under the screen as opposed to having a big (Cousins in this case) switch and contest the shot is different. There is no one master strategy that stops all pick and rolls, and a lot of times teams will adjust depending on who the screener/guard is, whether a player is hot shooting from outside and things like that. Obviously with Steph Curry you need to show harder and definitely not go under and things like that.

If you watch the second video he posted and start around 4:30 it looks pretty familiar. Cousins contains, IT can't recover. Cousins has to stay on the guy and that's when the kick out happens.

 

[mac]

I think the problem with Outlaw is he's playing with the bench mainly and he feels the need to be a go to guy when he's with the bench, if we are going to play Outlaw do it with the starters or don't do it at all, we are better off playing D-Will @SG/SF since Acy seems to be the back up PF at this point.

It's also playing him out of position and putting him in an entirely different role. Notice he's catching the ball at the top of the key a lot more as compared to the angles/corners, and then having to make plays from there. These "minor" changes can affect a player's entire rhythm.

 

[mac]

If you watch the second video he posted and start around 4:30 it looks pretty familiar. Cousins contains, IT can't recover. Cousins has to stay on the guy and that's when the kick out happens.

Nice. I also love how the speaker says "all they get is a contested long two".

 

[spudfan]

Some questions I have about the situations in the pictures:

1. Shouldn't we be trying to prevent the Teague from turning the corner off the screen in the first place?
That's one strategy but we don't seem to use it very often.

2. Doesn't IT have to go over the screen and stay on Teague's hip to prevent him from getting open 18 footers? In all these pics Cousins is in the paint so if IT immediately drifts to Al doesn't Teague now get the wide open looks?
Yes. Teague gets a mid-range jumper if he wants, which is the preferred look to give up.

3. If we are going to play them soft like this isn't it a rotation defenders job to come over and cover Al?
I think it's Cousins job to cover him but IT has to recover first which is the big problem. Maybe he is too physically limited to do so. It's possible it would be better to try and trap the guy. That is pretty risky for us as it would be easy for Cousins to pick up a foul, it also puts him way out of position to rebound if a pass then shot happens.

What we are doing right now is clearly not working, and might not even be possible with IT at the point.

Responded in bold.

 

[spudfan]

Nice. I also love how the speaker says "all they get is a contested long two".

It fits with all the analytics stuff going on now, too. Don't give up a layup, don't give up a three.

 

[Chubbs]

Lost all respect for both bruski and synergy all in one sentence.

 

[Honolulu Kings Fan]

If you read the rest of Bruski's tweets he says that Cousins is at a disadvantage because he's too big to play the PnR defense. He doesn't get into position, and we're getting killed on it. Both him and JT are liabilities vs. the pick and roll. Which makes a lot of sense seeing them plod around out there. Neither of them wants to get too far away from the basket, but that's necessary if your man is setting the pick (Unless you're playing ICE and even then they need be in position to funnel the ball handler toward the baseline, then haul ass back up to their man after slowing the ball).

Bruski:
On the other hand, the book is out on attacking SAC bigs in the PnR and in general. Disaster on so many levels.
One thing the Kings are doing is trying to jump the PnR with IT, keeping the guard from crossing the screen. It’s a desperation strategy.
The reality is that Cousins is going to have to work extra hard and learn ways to cheat his size disadvantage. Team overrotating an idea too.
Yep. Too big to get to the spot RT @cka23 @aaronbruski dmc w/ a size disadvantage? Please explain what u mean b/c he seems like he's bigger

 

[chief bromden]

Why doesn't IT anticipate the pass back to the big?

 

[Chubbs]

The team defense is dreadful. That's clear.

But to say IT was responsible for 1 assist out of 15 just seems quite impossible.

 

[ESP47]

I'm glad were talking about IT's defense and not his offense for once. It was infuriating listening to people complain about his 25pt 3ast on 10-15 shooting games when we'd lose 105-110...as if it was his assist numbers that directly led to the loss.

We don't have many good defenders anymore but the good thing is that we have a coach with a proven track record of turning teams around defensively and we aren't even close to being done with rebuilding yet. If we're all sitting at home wanting to throw something at the tv after watching our pick and roll defense, just imagine how Malone is feeling when watching it? I'm sure he goes over this stuff plenty in practice, only to have the guys completely revert back to their old habits during games. If these guys aren't playing good defense, I'm going to have to side with the coach who has turned a couple teams around in the NBA. I'm not going to side with a bunch of scrubs who can't even win 40% of their games.

 

[Hadlowe]

Why doesn't IT anticipate the pass back to the big?

That's something, but IT is 5'9" while Horford is a legit 6'10". There's a lot of space Teague can pass Horford the ball where IT can't disrupt the pass. They also have the option of resetting with Cousins on Teague and IT on Horford which is a pretty good 2-way mismatch for them.

 

[HighFlyingMonkey]

Look, defense is not rocket science. The key isn't the initial rotation when Teague goes around the Horford pick. The key is the third and fourth rotations after Teague kicks out to Horford. The rotations needed to be more aggressive, but in order for that to happen. They let Horford get that set jumper far too many times. The problem is, Isaiah is thinking "OK, if I sell out to contest this Horford shot, he's going around me for a layup since I can't trust JT to rotate, or if JT does rotate, Horford will kick out to a shooter and McLemore will blow the rotation."

But thats not an excuse. Isaiah MUST close out more aggressively on that Horford jumper. Don't give me the "he's 5'9" excuse. Isaiah is a pogo stick, he's challenged shots much higher than Horford's release point. You want to make Horford put the ball on the floor instead of getting a clean catch-and-shoot. Force him to put the ball on the floor and to make decisions off the dribble against another rotating man. This is rotation #3. Horford is a smart player and there's a reasonable chance he makes the right decision and kicks out to an open player. But if he kicks it out to, say, Demarre Carroll, you want to do the same thing to him you did to Horford. Run him off the catch-and-shoot with an aggressive close-out. This is rotation #4. Now you have Carroll being forced to make decisions off the dribble against a rapidly dwindling shot clock. Thats something you can guard.

But, if rotation #3 and #4 are consistently unreliable, rotations #1 and #2 aren't going to close out as aggressively, and the entire system is going to fall apart. Consider that we have JT, McLemore and even Gay blowing rotations pretty often. Thats when you get problems with Isaiah and Demarcus defending the pick and roll.

From a physical standpoint, we have all the tools to defend better. JT and Cousins have size. McLemore and Gay are athletic and long. IT is quick. What we lack are the brains and the focus. I think McLemore, Cousins and Gay will eventually get it. IT needs to stop thinking about his offense and put more effort into his defense. But JT's a lost cause.

 

[pshn80]

Yeah in the 4th I did not understand Cousins defence at all he easily shut off Horford on drives/post ups so Horford had to settle for jump-shots I mean what else was he doing to do and I don't know maybe he was fatigued from literally doing everything past two nights he took the 4th quarter off. Cousins has shown the ability to adjust on offence he has to start adjusting a bit better on defence. The blame is on both IT and Cousins since pick n roll requires two people (at least) to defend.

I would like to see Cousins show on pick n rolls a bit more if he's capable of doing it but at the same time if he does it really hurts our rebounding it's a double edged sword but really they have to work on pick n roll D if they were want to be a winning team eventually. But yeah the pick n roll defence is just a major mess atm.

Hopefully next season we can surround IT/Gay/Cousins/Williams/Mclemore with tough defensive players.

Are you suggesting an 8 on 5 defensive game next year? You can't start 5 lousy defenders and surround them with 3 defensive shoppers without violating some rules.

Since Cousins is our offensive foundation, abd a good one he is, we have have to cure him from being the defensive liability he is now on anybody driving to the basket. It is a tough job because we also need to make such improvements without his fouling out in the second quarter.

Hopefully, part of the improvement must come from building a much better perimeter defense. Lots to do but it is bad enough now that the FO sees it and can move to correct it. Correction won't be a new coach or a new Cousins so moves of some srt will be attempted to bolster the guard line. How about now so we can start the new year on a better footing.