[Grades] Grades v. Hawks 12/18/2013

Worst defensive effort of the night?

  • Gay

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Thompson

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Cousins

    Votes: 3 6.7%
  • McLemore

    Votes: 2 4.4%
  • Thomas

    Votes: 40 88.9%
  • Williams

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Fredette

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Outlaw

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Gray

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Total voters
    45
  • Poll closed .

Bricklayer

Don't Make Me Use The Bat
#1


Atlanta Hawks season: 100.2ppg
Atlanta Hawks tonight: 124pts

Cousins 28pts 7reb 6ast = yay! Horford 25pts 10reb 5ast = boo. IT played better team game, 20pts 2reb 10ast = yay! Teague 18pts 8reb 15ast = boo. Ben was under control and didn't suck on offense, 10pts 5reb 1ast = yay! Kyle Korver 28pts 2reb 4ast = uh oh. And just etc. The Hawks shot 58% against us, scored 124pts, they shoot 15-25 from 3pt land as a core part of Malone's defensive philosophy appears to be let them have as many open corner jumpers as possible, DeMarre bleeping Carrol shoots 6-9 on his way to 15pts and the only thing stopping me from another rant, this one centered upon the Kings resemblance to a bunch of female body parts/small domestic felines is some general sense that I am a known entity and have a responsibility to be mature and all that bunk. Its hard though. I'm an old defensive guy. I always sneered and considered offensive guys to be those small domestic felines. Pathetic gutless glory hounds that I took great pleasure in frustrating and making cry back in my day. And so you can imagine my nightly joy in watching the Kings do a pretty good imitation of exactly that breed for the past decade. Tonight was one of those nights. They could have used me out there. At least I would have known that you don't run off to "help" while leaving Kyle Korver standing wide open in the corner, you run back hard on the break, and when a team hits every open jumper you give them, you damn well fight through and OVER the screen, not under it.

Anyway, down we go again. Not particularly a talent thing -- Al Horford Paul Milsap and Jeff Teague aren't more talented than Cousins, Gay and Thomas. Its smarts, guts, and cahones. Frankly I'd rather it be talent, at least then it wouldn't be such a waste.

Your Consoritum Graders tonight:
Bricklayer
Uncia03
Spudfan
Capt. Factorial
MassachusettsKingsFan


Boxscore

Stats: 36min 22pts (8-13, 0-0, 6-8) 1reb 3ast 3stl 1blk 3TO
Gay ( B- ) -- this one had a strange, lackadaisical feel to it, but bottom line we got our #2 scorer back and that terrible knee game last time out was hopefully just that, a single terrible knee game. He actually started the game ragged enough that I was worried about a continuation, missed a little in rhythm jumper, flat took his eye off the ball on the catch for what should have been a wide open layup, got one tough inside shot to go, but he had several turnovers trying to post and not recognizing double teams, and the rest of the shots were rolling off and he only had 4 pts until late in the first half, but then began to come alive. Drew a foul on a nice drive, came up with a great block right at the rim to save a hoop, hit JT with a nice assist. He was suddenly back. The thing was, even after he got rolling...its hard to tell with Rudy because he's so smooth. He's like one of those gliding raptors of the bygone Dr.J/Iceman Gervin era. And so it rarely looks like he's trying hard even when he is. But tonight I had some questions. He wasn't on the glass at all, nor even remotely scrapping to get on the glass. There were a few loose balls that he pretty just bent at the waist for them, and that was the extent of his hustle play. Once the offense came online, we once again got the full repertoire of pullups, postups, late in the game he came up with back to back great swoops on the hoop, the second of which involved an amazing amount of English on the ball to get it to fall from a bad angle as his momentum carried him away from the hoop. But on the glass, on defense...you couldn't exactly spot where he was being lazy, he just always seemed to have a little gap between him and the ball or him and his man. Just enough so those plays were consistently going to the Hawks. The only real hustle play he made was when he darted in to grab his own missed FT and get us another possession. Throw in a troubling back to back sequence where he suddenly looked like Marcus Thornton, ignoring an open Ben on the break to get fouled, and only hit 1 of 2 FTs, and then a minute later picking up a loose ball and ignoring a wide open Cousins 8 feet away so he could force a missed layup...and this just wasn't his best effort. The professional scorer was back, and he did it in true #2 scorer fashion with limited shots. But the rest of his game still hasn't really made it through security back at Sac International. --Brick

Stats: 20min 4pts (2-6, 0-0, 0-1) 7reb 0ast 0stl 0blk 0TO
Thompson ( C+ ) -- This was an odd game for JT. He started off the game rebounding well and playing good defense by containing Millsap who usually plays well against us. Then with about 5 minutes left in the 1st he picked up 2 fouls in about 10 seconds and had to sit down. He didn’t get back till about 4 minutes left in the half. In his 2nd stint he pretty much did what he had been doing previously with the rebounding and defense. He wasn’t doing all that much on the offensive end, but he was contributing none-the-less. His 3rd wasn’t as good as he basically stopped securing rebounds but again his defense on Millsap was solid. He only grabbed 1 board in his 8 minutes of play in the 3rd quarter and will with 3 minutes left in the 3rd he left the game and never got back in as Malone decided to play Williams for the stretch run. So he only played 20 minutes in this one, and though he wasn’t great on the offensive end (only 4 points, and missed 2 wide-open 18ft jumpers and some offensive tip-ins) he had been playing good defense and was rebounding well enough, and so it felt as if Malone should have gone back to him at some point in the 4th quarter. JT didn’t have a bad game and he didn’t have a great game, but his defense and rebounding was good on a night where there was very little defense and rebounding by the Kings so he gets a slightly above-average game for a below average stat-line. --Uncia

Stats: 35min 28pts (10-20, 0-0, 8-9) 7reb 6ast 1stl 0blk 4TO
Cousins ( A- ) -- Although the end result of the game was dissapointing, Cousins showed us some very positive things tonight. After getting off to a rough start in which he made only 1 out of 4 shots, while being blocked twice, Malone pulled him from the game (6 minutes in) to do some coaching and boy did it work. The Kings were down 6-15 when he went out, and 10-18 when he came back. But by the end of the quarter we were only down two thanks to Cousins. Right after getting back into the game he drove strong to the hoop which ended up with 2 points. The next play Acy missed a tough layup off of a pass that came from Cousins. Next Cousins converted an and-1 layup on a pass from Ben. He followed that with a strong move to the hoop and converted another 2 free throws attempts after being fouled. He finished the quarter strong with a pass out of a double team to Derrick for an open layup to bring us back within 2. During the second quarter Cousins offense slowed down while the rest of Kings started to come alive. Although he wasn’t a big part of the scoring during this quarter his defense remained as strong as it had been all night. The only buckets Horford was making were either during transition or on long jumpers. In the third Cousins was the focus of our offense again and he responded with a big 12 points, 3 rebounds and 2 assists with more good defense on both Horford and Brand, who only managed to score 4 points while he was on them. In the fourth quarter Cousins only played 5 meaningful minutes that started at the 7:43 mark and the Kings down by 8. During this 5 minute stretch the game was lost when Horford got open look after open look. Yes, Horford was the man Cousins was supposed to be covering but it was impossible for him to do so. Teague repeatedly beat IT and Cousins was forced to show to prevent a layup. Teague would then just kick it out to Horford who knocked down the open shot. One has to give credit to the Hawks for identifying, and taking advantage of this mismatch over and over and over and over and over again. By my count Horford made 4 mid-ranged shots and 1 layup off of this same exact play. There was really not too much Cousins could have done but I doubt that made him feel any better. Cousins frustration showed after the fourth Horford score and he committed 2 back to back turnovers which signaled the end of meaningful game time. Rebounding thoughts: His rebounds were low tonight, but he did manage to grab 3 offensive boards. When the other team shoots 58% there isn’t many left to grab. --Spud

Stats: 34min 10pts (5-6, 0-0, 0-0) 5reb 1ast 0stl 0blk 1TO
McLemore ( B ) -- Maybe a generous grade consider the defense being played, but after his recent stretch it's hard not to overreact to any signs of life. Isn't going to get many looks with out starting lineup, not that he deserves to, thankfully tonight he took advantage when called upon. Nice cut to start things off followed by a another make on decently tough shot that was challenge in transition. Didn't take a shot in the second but did manage to pull down a couple tough rebounds and played decent defense on Lou Williams, although Lou doesn't look to be at full strength. Malone ran a nice play for him at the start of the third followed by another long jumper a few minutes later. Didn't get another shot until well into the fourth, which like I mentioned earlier isn't something I have a problem with considering his recent play and who he's on the floor with. Another terrible night defensively. Still waiting on that defensive effort that was promised when the new coach showed up. An improvement for sure and hopefully the end of his recent shooting slump. --Henkel

Stats: 38min 20pts (7-15, 3-7, 3-3) 2reb 10ast 2stl 0blk 2TO
Thomas ( B- ) -- Thomas had a pretty good night scoring (again, who knew?) and outside of one quick three pointer in the third he wasn't really playing the gunner out there - he didn't even attempt a shot until about the final two minutes of the first quarter. It continues to amaze me that a guy his size can not only get to the rim in the NBA but that he can find angles for layups - gotta give him credit for that. As for his defense, well, we already know that IT can't recover from a screen and he can't really stay in front of a quick guard, so Teague's night is not a terrible surprise. Isaiah actually made some nice defensive plays (for some examples, he drew offensive fouls over three possessions in the second quarter, and he completely stymied Shelvin Mack on a drive attempt in the fourth) on the night and he gave good effort, he just isn't a good defender, and he won't be. If it's any consolation to IT fans, I didn't feel that IT's defense was the primary reason we were getting burned on the scoreboard. Jeff Teague's 15 assists looks like a disaster for IT's defense until you realize that the official scorer was handing out assists like they were leftover candy from Halloween - Thomas was credited with 10 assists, I counted 5. On that note, I kept close track of IT's passes tonight to see what he was doing, and I thought the results were pretty interesting. He made a total of 60 passes on the night: 27 to Cousins, 15 to Gay, 8 to Ben, 5 to JT, 5 to Williams. So he was clearly preferentially feeding our beast(s). But it was pretty apparent that we were feeding our guys in blocks. The first four possessions of the game all started with a pass to Cousins, and he got 11 passes from IT in the first (compared to 7 to Ben and only 3 to Gay). But in the second, Cousins got no passes from IT while Gay got all but one. The third quarter started with Cousins getting the majority of IT's feeds but then ended with all those feeds going to Gay. It was just interesting the way we were effectively distributing the ball in blocks.--Capt.
 
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Bricklayer

Don't Make Me Use The Bat
#2
Stats: 20min 2pts (1-3, 0-1, 0-0) 4reb 1ast 0stl 0blk 0TO
Acy ( C ) -- Acy’s game was pretty similar to JT’s except that he didn’t rebound well and like JT struggled with rebounding in the 2nd half. Like JT he played pretty good defense against Millsap, though I felt that JT overall did a better job on that end. Unlike JT Acy was able to knock down his mid-range jumper, but I’m not certain if that was a good thing because a minute later he attempted a corner 3, which he missed. The jumper he made was from 20ft out, and at this point I’d be a bit more comfortable with him taking jumpers closer in. With that said, he only took 3 shots, so he wasn’t hurting the Kings all that much. The slight concern in this one, as it was the other night, was with his rebounding. He ended up collecting 4 in 20 minutes while playing PF/C, while JT grabbed 7 in the same amount of time. I would like to see a bit better rebounding production from Acy if he continues to play the back-up PF/C role. As mentioned his defense was pretty good, with a couple of slip-ups here and there, but nothing disastrous, and his 20 minutes of playing time certainly didn’t hurt the Kings. In fact JT & Acy were a combined +/- of -4 and if you look at the team as a whole you’ll see how good that was. So our PFs didn’t carry the day, but they certainly weren’t the problem in this one. --Uncia

Stats: 25min 12pts (3-8, 2-5, 4-4) 2reb 3ast 0stl 0blk 1TO
Williams ( C ) -- there were kind of two games here for Williams, and hits a little bit toward how he can struggle and how he cannot for us. Basically his first game was as a roleplayer. A finisher. In that game he was very efficient when he caught and shot threes, when he cut and kept his hands up etc. The second game was one in which he felt the ball crunch for the team, wasn't touching as much as he liked, and tried to force his own offense off the dribble. I'm not sure anything good came of that all night. Throw in invisible rebounding, and no defensive impact, either guarding on the perimeter, or in around the rim where he got overpowered, and this just wasn't a great night. but you could see how it could have been at least an efficient one. You can also see the pressure guys like Williams and McLemore are on to try to eke out productivity from the scraps leftover once Cousins (who at least passes), Gay and IT get done. --Brick

Stats: 15min 0pts (0-4, 0-1, 0-0) 2reb 0ast 0stl 0blk 0TO
Outlaw ( F ) -- Proving that his only sorta bad play to start the season off was an aberration and all the talk about how Smart held him back was premature. Still can't shoot and doesn't take advantage of his athleticism on either end like he should. Always looks lost, not sure how he pulls that off after 500+ games. We desperately need another guard, self inflicted wounds and all, but that will probably have to wait until the off season. --Henkel

Stats: 9min 9pts (4-8, 1-2, 0-0) 2reb 1ast 0stl 0blk 1TO
Fredette ( B- ) -- I don't want to take too much away from this game given that Jimmer didn't have too many minutes, but all-in-all he did a pretty decent job. He wasn't a defensive sieve (the Hawks only attempted two shots on him) and he was aggressive looking for his shot. He hit his first two, the first on a 15-foot right-side fading jumper, and the second on a clean three. But after he came into the lane one step too far and got his floater shot down like a daylight paratrooper he went partially timid and partially stupid - he passed up some good shots and then turned the ball over trying to run the pick and roll with Aaron Gray. Yeah, that's what you want to do, pass the ball to Aaron Gray at the free throw line. Brilliant. In the early fourth quarter, Jimmer was saddled with perhaps the worst lineup we can put on the floor for most of his three and a half minutes (Jimmer/Outlaw/Williams/Acy/Gray) and even though he got aggressive again (2-4 in that short time) we went from a 2-point lead to a 5-point deficit in that stretch. The lineup, however, was little help (the Hawks only failed to score on one possession in that stretch). It's interesting to note that when Shelvin Mack was in, he was putting full-court pressure on Jimmer every time up the floor, a courtesy that he did not extend to Thomas under the same circumstances - clearly the league recognizes that Jimmer doesn't quite have his handle under him.--Capt.

Stats: 6min 0pts (0-0, 0-0, 0-0) 0reb 0ast 0stl 0blk 1TO
Gray ( F ) -- So how can a player earn an F while only playing 6 minutes, you might ask? By committing three fouls in the first three minutes of the fourth quarter. Three totally unnecessary fouls. Combine that with a foul committed by Jimmer and it sets up the team for disaster. Free throws for everyone! Although it didn’t effect the outcome of the game very much, it simply is unacceptable for a bench player to put his team in such a poor position. --Spud

Stats: 0min 0pts (0-0, 0-0, 0-0) 1reb 0ast 0stl 0blk 0TO
Ndiaye ( INC ) -- Wow! For all those lovers of per/48, Hamady was over 48 rebounds per/48 tonight! It is a bit surprising he was able to play at all as Gray is now ahead of him on the depth chart. Enjoy the playtime Hamady, it probably is going to be very limited in the future. Unless he is sent to Reno after Malone gets a feel for the new guys. --Spud

Stats: 0min 0pts (0-1, 0-0, 0-0) 0reb 0ast 0stl 0blk 0TO
McCallum ( INC ) -- just the final minute, missed a shot. --Brick
 
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K

Kingsguy881

Guest
#7
These are times I wonder why people would hate giving up IT of all people in a trade for Rondo.
Nostalgia. Love of midgets. Ignorance. They like Pizza Guys (who doesn't). His determinate diminutive nature. A ton of things. Fools, I say. 6th man or bust for the Pizza Guy who rarely delivers. Especially when its the end of a quarter and we are doomed to have the ball in his hands.
 
#8
The horrible pick and roll defense today was 70% Isaiah, 30% Cousins. No PG can contain the ball effectively in today's pick and roll league. Cousins needs to be able to help and recover much faster than he did today.

That being said, Isaiah was TERRIBLE today. I lost count of how many times he failed to get over a screen and forced the big to switch out on a guard, leading to either a make or an offensive rebound. Isaiah needs to put in about a million times more effort than he's shown to defend the pick and roll, *especially* since he's 5'9 and his rotations on shooters are automatically less effective. Isaiah needs to realize we don't need him to carry the team offensively to win and should give all his effort on the defensive end.
 
#9
I think the little man plays like this on defense cause he knows the coach can't take him out. He can rack up all the stats on offense he wants cause he can't get benched. They need to bring someone in quick to stop this.

Some team is going to pay him too much based on the offense and be sorely disappointed. I hope it's not us.

Off topic, does anyone know what section sign lady sits in?
 
#10
These are times I wonder why people would hate giving up IT of all people in a trade for Rondo.
Before this stretch IT was probably the most prolific and efficient sixth man in the league while rondo has been out a calendar year with a possible career altering injury. I don't recall many advocating against a Pre-injury rondo And IT straight up deal, it's about rondos health and what else you would have to give up.

IT has been disappointing on the defensive end to say the least, and ashouldn't be about quickness and agility with him. He is still getting used to this role with a new set of teammates and a new philosophy.
 

Capt. Factorial

trifolium contra tempestatem subrigere certum est
Staff member
#11
The horrible pick and roll defense today was 70% Isaiah, 30% Cousins. No PG can contain the ball effectively in today's pick and roll league. Cousins needs to be able to help and recover much faster than he did today.

That being said, Isaiah was TERRIBLE today. I lost count of how many times he failed to get over a screen and forced the big to switch out on a guard, leading to either a make or an offensive rebound.
I've been watching Isaiah's defense closely for the game threads quite often over the past season. Tonight was by no means his worst defensive outing - it was actually one of his better ones. 75th percentile, maybe. For a long time I was appalled at IT's inability to get through a screen until upon closer observation I've come to realize that practically nobody can effectively get through a screen. In fact, the Kings have had exactly zero players not named Toney Douglas who had any chance of getting through a screen regularly in the last year. Did Teague cut us up for 15 assists? Well, maybe. I mean, Isaiah was credited with 10 assists and watching the entire game I counted FIVE. I wasn't counting Teague assists, but if the ratio of generous assists was the same for the home team PG (seems likely) then he might have only gotten 7 or 8 from another official scorer, and that doesn't sound so bad. Anyway, at some point we've got to put together some effective TEAM defense against the pick and roll, something that we've had almost no success at, at all. And I don't know whose fault that is. I don't know if it's Cousins, I don't know if it's JT, I don't know if it's the weak-side wing, I don't know if it's Malone...but I know it's Malone's job to figure it out.
 
K

KingMilz

Guest
#13
The whole team D is just bad in general it's all the little things we don't do that end on both ends, for the first 3 quarter we played well but we got hustled by a veteran team who have a really good offensive system and excellent floor spacers.

Teague is a beast as well he's a top 3 PG in the East right now and probably could even be the starter for the East All Stars if fans did not vote the likes of Kyrie in. I was screaming all off season for us to offer something to Jeff Teague hell I would have offered him the 42million deal Tyreke got from the Pelicans without thinking about it, hell even the deal we offered to Iggy I would have offered to Teague since he's a young two way player with potential.
 

Bricklayer

Don't Make Me Use The Bat
#15
The whole team D is just bad in general it's all the little things we don't do that end on both ends, for the first 3 quarter we played well but we got hustled by a veteran team who have a really good offensive system and excellent floor spacers.

Teague is a beast as well he's a top 3 PG in the East right now and probably could even be the starter for the East All Stars if fans did not vote the likes of Kyrie in. I was screaming all off season for us to offer something to Jeff Teague hell I would have offered him the 42million deal Tyreke got from the Pelicans without thinking about it, hell even the deal we offered to Iggy I would have offered to Teague since he's a young two way player with potential.
Jeff Teague has been averaging about 13 and 7 on 40% shooting for a month now. But we're like Santa Claus.
 

Bricklayer

Don't Make Me Use The Bat
#16
Having a hard time understanding why bruski is defending IT on Twitter right now
That's not going to change. Anybody who thinks that bromance has anything to do with Bruski's basketball acumen should contact me about this hot property bridge I just put up for sale.
 
#17
I've been watching Isaiah's defense closely for the game threads quite often over the past season. Tonight was by no means his worst defensive outing - it was actually one of his better ones. 75th percentile, maybe. For a long time I was appalled at IT's inability to get through a screen until upon closer observation I've come to realize that practically nobody can effectively get through a screen. In fact, the Kings have had exactly zero players not named Toney Douglas who had any chance of getting through a screen regularly in the last year. Did Teague cut us up for 15 assists? Well, maybe. I mean, Isaiah was credited with 10 assists and watching the entire game I counted FIVE. I wasn't counting Teague assists, but if the ratio of generous assists was the same for the home team PG (seems likely) then he might have only gotten 7 or 8 from another official scorer, and that doesn't sound so bad. Anyway, at some point we've got to put together some effective TEAM defense against the pick and roll, something that we've had almost no success at, at all. And I don't know whose fault that is. I don't know if it's Cousins, I don't know if it's JT, I don't know if it's the weak-side wing, I don't know if it's Malone...but I know it's Malone's job to figure it out.
With how the PG position has adapted athletically, it's near impossible to stay in front and stop penetration one on one. People are quick to point out us getting torched by Teague (very true), but don't seem to realize (or refuse to point out) that IT gave it as good as he got. Stopping offensive PG's has to be a team effort. You need strong defensive rotations to keep the elite athletes out of the paint. We have 0 defensive rotations. Cousins and JT have both become pretty strong man defenders. Surprising really. However, both are extremely slow rotating and it constantly leads to easy lay-ups.

Watching the elite defenses around the league and the one thing that stands out is that it's not about 1on1 defense but playing as a 5 man unit. We have none of that right now. There's no communication. There's no trust. Everyone's just worried about their own man and thus, late on playing help defense all the time. You're not going to stop anybody if you don't rotate on defense

This doesn't excuse the poor defensive play we've seen from IT, Ben, Jimmer and pretty much everyone on the perimeter. They have just as much (or more blame) than everyone else for our defensive problems. But the issue certainly runs deeper than everything being their fault for us sucking defensively.
 

Bricklayer

Don't Make Me Use The Bat
#19
Impact on a game >>>stats/advanced stats
He can magically impact the game while shooting 40% all he wants. He wants to come out against us and impact the game to the tune of 13pts 7ast on 40% shooting, I say bring it dude. I also say we wouldn't be sitting here talking about how he blitzed us into a loss.
 
K

KingMilz

Guest
#21
He can magically impact the game while shooting 40% all he wants. He wants to come out against us and impact the game to the tune of 13pts 7ast on 40% shooting, I say bring it dude. I also say we wouldn't be sitting here talking about how he blitzed us into a loss.
Russell Westbrook does it shooting that, Teague has been a beast this season and he's exactly the type of player we needed dudes stats might not be as good as Kyrie hell they might not even be as good as Isaiahs but he's been a way better player than both those guys this year hence why his team is actually over 500. he's the biggest reason for it.
 

Mr. S£im Citrus

Doryphore of KingsFans.com
Staff member
#22
If you believe that to be true, then I'm sure that you can find me at least one GM in the league who would take Jeff Teague over Kyrie Irving.
 
K

KingMilz

Guest
#24
If you believe that to be true, then I'm sure that you can find me at least one GM in the league who would take Jeff Teague over Kyrie Irving.
I said he's played better I never said he's a better player, Irving has become crazy overrated you can make all the exact complaints about Kyrie that you can make about IT not a good playmaker and a awful defender.
 
#28
Do you guys/gals believe any of it is coaching related?
Partly. But not having players with defensive awareness is a big deal too. I don't know who's commanding all the double and triple teams in the paint. That might be on the coaches I have no clue. Quickness and awareness on rotations. That's definitely on the players
 
#30
One of Bruskis latest tweets.

@aaronbruski: After receiving plenty of IT2 hate, I took a spin through synergy. He was responsible for four points and one assist to Teague. Hate on.

Re-watching a lot of the 4th quarter and Cousins was just constantly in no mans land on the PnRs where Horford was just lighting us up.