Grades v. Hawks 01/20/10

Who'd we need more from?

  • Greene

    Votes: 20 23.8%
  • Thompson

    Votes: 29 34.5%
  • Brockman

    Votes: 4 4.8%
  • Casspi

    Votes: 6 7.1%
  • Udrih

    Votes: 3 3.6%
  • Nocioni

    Votes: 3 3.6%
  • Hawes

    Votes: 19 22.6%

  • Total voters
    84
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Bricklayer

Don't Make Me Use The Bat
So...more solid looking, and at least this time it was against a good team. But again, 24pts for Tyreke, 23 points for Kevin, and yet we score only 97 as a team. And it only got up to 97 thx to some last minute garbagetime padding by Omri.

Greene ( D ) -- got the start off of the strong work in Charlotte and...well, let's put it this way: I have two lines of notes on his game. Two. Got in quick foul trouble, sat the rest of the half. A wild drive to start the third, but otherwise became the latest SF victim of the shotmunching backcourt unbable to find an offensive role. Lingered for a bit, but with no impact whatsoever. 16+min 0pts 2rebs 3fls. There was of course a little defense mixed in, but in general might as well have not shown up.

Thompson ( C+ ) -- better than his recent performances, but that says a lot more about his recent performances than the one tonight. Started off the game looking aggressive on offense. A good full speed running finish on the break, barely dribbled in a layup, a little jumper, a follow of a Casspi miss, an active post move, then got his shot blocked up against the 24 second clock after Kevin took too long swinging the ball. Turnover out of the timeout at the 4:00 mark of the 2nd quarter, then lost his man for an alley oop before repsonding with another strong post move. But you could almost seee where this one died, and it was right in the big echo chamber between Jason's ears. Got a lane violation givng the Hawks another FT, and then a few seconds later finally got a T for complaining to the refs. Finished off the half getting the shot blocked in the post. And meanwhile Josh Smith and friedns were repeatedly getting aroudn him to score at the rim. JT wrapped up a 12pt first half playing aggressively until the end of the 2nd quarter, but given his frustration what were the odds he was going to repeat the performance? Not high. At all. Almost completely disappeared after the break, scoring 2 pts and after picking up an offensive foul in the late 4th off of a Reke dropoff, getting yanked for Brockman for the stretch run. So...something at least. Good offense for a half, but never a factor on the glass and deemed not reliable enough to get the stretch minutes.

Brockman ( B- ) -- got the start and felt like a typical rough and tumble Brockman game, but not nearly as productive as he has been. Fouled Smith on the high flying dunk attempt, mopped up on a missed Reke layup, but got two quick fouls that slowed him. Returned and stopped a score on the break by racing back to challenge Smith, who became overconscious of him and blew the finish. Showed us something (a very little something) new, with a little 16ft baseline jumper. Undersized and overpowered by a physical adn aggressive Horford in the third. Suffered a cut over the eye on an extremely aggressive offensive rebound battle where he crashed to the baseline and smacked his head into a camera. Picked up a steal up top and charged down the floor on the break for the flying dunk. Was fouled from behind too, but showed real footspeed in staying ahead and not getting run down. Despite spectacular plays, not a factor at the bread and butter tonight -- only 3 rebounds. Got reinserted late in place of JT for the stretch run, but did little. Added a turnover in garbagetime.

Martin ( B+ ) -- and if last time out was the worst Kevin has looked since coming back, this was probably the best, not least because for a half he didn't actually look that much like Kevin Martin. Missed a three to start as we wasted 20 seconds getting him a shot, then a second possession where we stopped everything to get him going again, and yes, I was watching closely to see why +20pt scorer = -20pts of offense. But finally drew a foul, then stepped in a passing lane for a steal and +1 breakaway. Wasn't exactly facing top of the line resistance as he was guarded by Mike Bibby, although I suppose Bibby at least knows his game. Was back to start the second and started with a bad pass thrown out of bounds past Beno. Missed a corner three, but worked the backdoor cut and got the dunk along the baseline and started his best spell of basketball during the game. A jumper on the break, and continued to show that Spencer is the guy he works with best ala the old Vlade/Peja tandem with Spencer as his personal assistman. Hit a three, got in front of Crawford for the charge. Played some good defense on JJ staying down on one possession. Did not seem to have the suppressing effect on Beno this time, and finished up the first half with something that looked suspiciously like a real all around basketball player's statline: 11pts 4rebs 4ast 2stls. Got his points, but also played the game when he wasn't shooting. And at that point we were hanging in there. A little activity in the early 3rd, but the fell of his game changed, and it was mostly jsut the scoring after half. Got really shaked and baked by a very aggressive Crawford in the early 4th. Got mushed on the break by Mo Evans and came up holding his wrist. Well...on defense. Quickly hit a three afterward as the feel of leather worked its magical healing powers. At the 4 minute mark got a take +1 on one of those questionable little touch fouls he draws. Bricked the jumper at the 2:30 mark out of the timeout with us down 11. Best game since his return, and for a half at least felt like we were playing solid if unspectacular basketball, wihtout the depressed chemistryless gloom that has hung over this roadtrip. First signs that this could work at all with Kevin doing the things he needs to do for at least part of the game. And yet in the end...it didn't. We again were sitting at 90pts with under a minute to go, and again lost. 1-8 now, with a likely 1-9 coming up in Orlando.

Evans ( B+ ) -- got into an impressive and occasionally spectacular back and forth duel with Joe Johnson in the first half. First shot was actually a desperation super high arcing three against the shotclock that bounced off the rafdters before swishing through. But then the battle began. A power drive, another drive, got posted by Johnson back the other way, another post drive, another score for Johnson. Added in several drive and kicks to open shooters as well. Big first quarter, but forgotten about for a long time in the second with Kevin and Beno playing well. Finally back in with 4 minutes to go and immediately had another nice take as Johnson could not stay in front of him, and the Hawks lack of size up front wasn't intimidating enough to make him back off. Followed with a very impressive overpowering drive banging through two Hawks and still finishing over the top of them. Got his knee banged in the early third and missed some time as the Hawks began to extend. Returned with a drive but got it swatted by Smith as the Hawks tried to close down that lane to him. Actually got a technical foul in the late 3rd -- first of his career and almsot hard to imagine givenhis demeanor. Followed that with an aggressive drive, then an amazing drive through three guys on the left side. Several mistakes down the stretch of the quarter however, and great as the driving game looked, the obligatory jumpers were mostly bricks again. I sentence you to 1000 jumpers a day every day over this summer kid. Hit the J and you get your own shoe. Fouled the 3pt shooter at the 7:00 mark in the 4th for a 4pt play, got to the line several times down the stretch, and seemed to be taking particualr care to try to get Omri going late even as the game slipped out of reach. Strong game, fun duel with Johnson, but not able to make the superstar run again to make it really interesting. Had zero rebounds in this one BTW -- do not remember if he's ever done that before. Normally you don't even mention a PG's rebs, but Reke isn't just any PG and seeing him with the bagel there is odd -- with the bigs struggling again, we needed the help he normally gives there.
 
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Bench

Udoka ( INC ) -- in ahead of Casspi off the bench when Greene got in foul trouble, beat by Crawford as he did not look quick enough for the matchup. Got hsi shot blocked at the first quarter buzzer. With Kevin playing well and Casspi sputtering to life late, few other minutes until garbagetime.

Armstong ( B- ) -- in ahead of Hawes, some good defense on Horford, blocked a shot along the baseline, and did better on the baords than he normally does (over the course of his career). Also threw up some highly questionable attempts at offense with back to back incompetent attempts. Picked up several fouls at least trying to defend. Hardly an impact performance, but with Westphal desperately looking for somebody able to shut down the lane, Hilton at least provided some low level releif for a little while.

Casspi ( B- ) -- got off to the inauspicious start, not even being the first SF off the bench (Udoka), but came on strong down the stretch and then padded his stats up in the final minute of OT to have his best game since Kevin has come back. Hit a little side jumper in the first half, but that was literally it for his production as again there just was no role with Kevin and Reke both going. Was back in the late third. Missed an insde shoti, then got the follow and missed that too. Airballed a three in the late third after not shooting in forever. No rhythm. Finally hit a side jumper. Got overpowered by Zaza in the post. Another missed three off a Reke setup as he stubbornly refuses to hit those. Came on in the 4th and finally had a bit of a breakthrough, albeit as the game as slipping out of reach. Had a smattering of scores on the break and around the hoop as Omri Casspi finally arrived at the game. Scrapped for boards. Put together a pretty strong quarter, and Reke kept finding him. Padded up the numbers in garbagetime with a dunk, a jumper and then another steal and dunk. Not nearly as strong as the numbers suggest, but did wake up from the bad dream in the 4th. Now the question will be can he carry that over going forward.

Udrih ( B- ) -- in with a quick layup, then had Crawford hit a three on him, responded with a too quick little 1 on team jumper --was open, but just selfish. Mixed jumpers with cuts as he showed far more aggression than he has to date since Kevin's return, and we had a good stint with our old losing backcourt bakc out there in the early 2nd. Got a bad pass picked off by Mo Evans to start the 4th. Part of a good passing sequence taking a pass from Reke and quickly touching it over to Omri on the break. Had to sit while Reke and Kevin worked the late game, but back in for the garbagetime to turn it over. Still maybe the most aggressive we've seen him since kevin's return seemed to knock him back into passive mode. Notched 8 assists on the night.

Nocioni ( INC ) -- missed a three at the close of the first, missed a d-board he should have had in the early 2nd. Short stint in the early 2nd showing some toughness.

Hawes ( B- ) -- not only lost hsi starting role, but wasn't even the first bigo off the bench as Westphal tried to replace Brockman's defense wiht some defense from Armstrong. But when Specner did finally get in, he actually helped. Made several nice passes in the early second working with both Kevin and Beno as our leftover Princeton type pieces moving off the ball. Made a really careless turnover on an inbounds throwing it to the Hawks and earning Westphal's ire. Some good work on the offensive board on a FT near the end of the third. But came up soft on both sides in the final minute of the quarter, and the renewed soft play saw him quickly benched and forgotten about by Westphal. So gave us some minutes finding a way to help -- mostly the passing. But then benched again when the old softness bugaboo re-reared its head. And its apparent Westpahl has run out of patience with it. Hope Petrie can find Coach a nice shiny new inside toy to play with here soon, ebcause I think he's tired of the ones he has.
 
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So...more solid looking, and at least this time it was against a good team. But again, 24pts for Tyreke, 23 points for Kevin, and yet we score only 97 as a team. And it only got up to 97 thx to some last minute garbagetime padding by Omri.

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Too many shots from the backcourt, not enough ball movement in the 2nd half. Kevin just doesn't fit with Evans/Casspi IMO.
 
The coach did said everything but...

HAWES is the problem! He said our front court was totally outplayed by their front court. He said our front court was outhussled by their front court. JT shares some of this blame, but the problem seems to continue to be Spencer :confused:

Geoff Petrie needs to make a trade before this team just starts going in the tank because they know their center is going to get outplayed every night and they are gonna lose no matter how hard they play because of the 7' sized HOLE we have in the middle of our defense. Hawes does not deserve to see ANY playing time the way he is playing right now. He is just not in any kind of rhythm.

Hopefully the Vets like Martin and Cisco can keep these kids from getting down on themselves just because Hawes cant keep up with the program. JT seems pretty upset as well, and his play as of late has been erratic. Until the Kings can trade for a REAL NBA CENTER who can defend other NBA Centers and give the Kings a CHANCE to win, they are gonna be is serious trouble. And it aint gonna get any better Friday when they go against Dwight Howard and the Magic. I think that Westphal should LEAVE Hawes on Howard ALL NIGHT LONG and MAKE him either play defense or be embarrassed!!! Maybe that will get Spencer in the weight room to lift some weights and do something about his lite in the loafers problem!:mad:

Anyway, I was encouraged by the play of Reke and Martin together. They are not the problem according to the coach and I agree!!
 
how do they make the +/- in the NBA statistics?

look at martin, only -1
evens = -12
sergio and ime, both +2, the only positive for the kings

can someone explain it?
 
.I think that Westphal should LEAVE Hawes on Howard ALL NIGHT LONG and MAKE him either play defense or be embarrassed!!! Maybe that will get Spencer in the weight room to lift some weights and do something about his lite in the loafers problem!:mad:
I doubt it.
 
Just looked at the box score and noticed that Reke got 0 (zero) rebounds tonight. What's up with that?
Meanwhile, JT got some points tonight, but was only 6/14 and 5 boards.
Greene and Brockman got the start, but both played way below expectations.
When does Westphal come up with a lineup that benches the big men who are playing like cr**?
 
how do they make the +/- in the NBA statistics?

look at martin, only -1
evens = -12
sergio and ime, both +2, the only positive for the kings

can someone explain it?

when did sergio play? maybe i was in the bathroom....
 
how do they make the +/- in the NBA statistics?

look at martin, only -1
evens = -12
sergio and ime, both +2, the only positive for the kings

can someone explain it?


There's no magic to it, which is also why its a dubious stat that sometimes can be deceptive.

Basically if you enter the gmae wiht the game tied, and you leave the game and your team is down 6, then you are at a -6. If you then come back into the game later, and while you are out there the team outscores the other team by 3, then you are down to a -3. Its just straihgt numbers. What was the score when you came in, what was it when you left. Subtract #2 from #1, voila!
 
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how do they make the +/- in the NBA statistics?

look at martin, only -1
evens = -12
sergio and ime, both +2, the only positive for the kings

can someone explain it?

I think you are confusing the +/- with the efficiency ranking. The +/- just shows the difference in points between your team and the opposing team while you were on the court. So basically, if you played for only 30 seconds, and someone on your team scored a basket while you were on the court, your +/- rating would be +2.
 
I think you are confusing the +/- with the efficiency ranking. The +/- just shows the difference in points between your team and the opposing team while you were on the court. So basically, if you played for only 30 seconds, and someone on your team scored a basket while you were on the court, your +/- rating would be +2.

I'm talking about the +/-
martin played 38 minutes and Evans 32.. so the +/- can tell me that the team played better with kevin rather than evans, at least statistically
Just take a look at the box score:
http://www.nba.com/games/20100120/SACATL/gameinfo.html

btw I mixed up sergio and spencer.. spencer had +2, sergio didn't play
 
I'm talking about the +/-
martin played 38 minutes and Evans 32.. so the +/- can tell me that the team played better with kevin rather than evans, at least statistically
Just take a look at the box score:
http://www.nba.com/games/20100120/SACATL/gameinfo.html

btw I mixed up sergio and spencer.. spencer had +2, sergio didn't play

the +/- just depends on how your team does while you're in. It's more of a team stat and really isn't that good of a stat. If you come in and your team goes on a 6-0 run while you're in, and then your team takes you out, you are +6.
 
The refs get an:





F

Can't blame this one on the Ref's. Sure we went into the half with 40 points in the paint and only 4 foul shots to show for it (how any NBA officiating crew can look at that stat and then think they did a good job is beyond comprehension), but this one was lost because of our lack of interior resistance. Our back court played a very efficient game (Beno included) and took a combined 50 shots. That leaves about 40 for the rest of the team. Which is fine, because we don't have a low post threat that demands a good portion of said shots.

Again, complete LACK of fiber in the middle led to the Kings losing their aggressiveness on the offensive end and overall becoming frustrated with their state of play.

All things considered, if Jamaal Crawford were hurt, the Kings might have won this game. He's a feisty bastard, that one, and neither Tyreke or Kevin had much luck on him. Kevin did a fair job actually now that I think about it, but beyond Crawford and that pasty Pachulia, the Hawks bench doesn't have any sugar to put in the rice crispies. I will say I didn't have as much of a feeling of impending doom like I've had after the recent losses. Atlanta is a legitimately better team, and after they discussed it at half, they came out and showed why they are going to be high in the playoff picture.

Kings did a decent job, but when ATL put the nose to the grindstone, the Kings were just a couple nostrils short.
 
yeah, you cant really see as a big deal. we were beat by a better team. the philly game hurt, the bobcats game hurt. this was us being beat by a better team, we didnt even play that bad as a whole... we were just beat by a better team. martin, evans, casspi and beno player well... thompson was okay, better than his last few games. hawes came off the bench.

whats our record with hawes coming off the bench? i couldve sworn that we've only won one game and that was our first win of the season against memphis.
 
the +/- just depends on how your team does while you're in. It's more of a team stat and really isn't that good of a stat. If you come in and your team goes on a 6-0 run while you're in, and then your team takes you out, you are +6.

yea but when you play on the 1\2 position above 30 minutes I think it does say something about how you affect the team..
 
Can't blame this one on the Ref's. Sure we went into the half with 40 points in the paint and only 4 foul shots to show for it (how any NBA officiating crew can look at that stat and then think they did a good job is beyond comprehension), but this one was lost because of our lack of interior resistance. Our back court played a very efficient game (Beno included) and took a combined 50 shots. That leaves about 40 for the rest of the team. Which is fine, because we don't have a low post threat that demands a good portion of said shots.

Again, complete LACK of fiber in the middle led to the Kings losing their aggressiveness on the offensive end and overall becoming frustrated with their state of play.

All things considered, if Jamaal Crawford were hurt, the Kings might have won this game. He's a feisty bastard, that one, and neither Tyreke or Kevin had much luck on him. Kevin did a fair job actually now that I think about it, but beyond Crawford and that pasty Pachulia, the Hawks bench doesn't have any sugar to put in the rice crispies. I will say I didn't have as much of a feeling of impending doom like I've had after the recent losses. Atlanta is a legitimately better team, and after they discussed it at half, they came out and showed why they are going to be high in the playoff picture.

Kings did a decent job, but when ATL put the nose to the grindstone, the Kings were just a couple nostrils short.

Sure, if the Kings were significantly better, I guess they might have won. I'm getting really tired of the BS calls though. And I think the coaching staff and players are getting tired of it as well. The "stick it to the youngins" ref ethic was taken to new lows in this game. It's just laziness on the part of the refs. They see "something" (they aren't entirely sure what) and voila! - Kings foul. It's got to be very tough to fight through that when they see it game in, game out. The bright side is that with this ref disrespect, we should definitely get more ping pong balls at year end.
 
This was the first game in a long time that Martin actually played defense. Not the kamikazee style go for the steal type D, but much more of the fundamental hard nosed defense that he can play. Not great, but it was definitely there. It's a start. Now let's see a trend...
 
Well, there is Good news and bad news for the Hawks game. Unfortunately, they are both the same news: too much youth. And youth = inexperience. Without aggressive front court ,the Hawks front court took immediate advantage. Consistency game to game is not so much the issue as quarter to quarter in any one game. Oh well, gotta hang in there this year to see what we really can end up with.
 
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