[Grades] Grades v. Celtics 12/2/2016

[Kingsfan23]

I love the grades but I might add a coaching grade myself

 

[hrdboild]

among top tier talents, it's often the endorsement opportunities and the national exposure that send them to big markets like LA. there's considerably more money to be made beyond the contract they sign with such a team. the kings can attract lower level talent easily enough, and even some mid-level talent, but anybody who can make an impact is always going to prefer some other destination for the advantages it provides over sacramento.

al horford, for example, went to boston as part of a recruitment process to lure kevin durant, and though it didn't ultimately work, i have to imagine playing in a legendary nba city for a well-regarded coach with a few other talented young players wasn't a bad consolation prize. sacramento, on the other hand, could never hope to lure a player like durant, and it's certainly not a legendary nba city. the kings have had eight winning seasons across thirty-one years in sacramento. that losing culture spans a variety of ownership groups, gm's, coaches, a poor draft history, an underwhelming free agent history, and an utter dearth of star-level talent.

this just isn't a franchise that inspires confidence, and few free agents are prepared to stake their careers on the prospect of raising the first championship banner in a city that the majority of them would fail to identify on a map if there wasn't an nba team playing here.

These are all explanations I've heard before but some of it doesn't add up. Horford already has a Nike deal. He's been in the league for 9 years. He won 2 national championships with Florida. He's not going to get any more national exposure than he already has unless he plays on a team that goes deep into the playoffs. Are there big money endorsement deals in a major market like LA that don't exist in Sacramento? Maybe if you're Kobe Bryant or Blake Griffin but Al Horford is a second banana on a good team not a superstar and he's known mostly for being a steady hard-working veteran who keeps to himself not for being a flashy personality.

And beyond that, LA has cultural cachet because it's a large city with a diverse population and a successful entertainment industry but for the most part players on the Lakers and Clippers are hocking the same local business nonsense you see everywhere else in the country. National exposure comes from playing games that people watch outside of the local market and like I said before, that generally comes from winning not being in a major city. Nobody is watching a crappy Lakers team (not even LA fans) and a ton of people are watching Cleveland because Lebron is there and the team wins. Most of them probably couldn't find Cleveland on a map either.

It's also significant that Durant didn't go to Boston and Al Horford signed there anyway. Taken as a whole, their supporting cast of Thomas/Bradley/Crowder isn't any better than Cousins/Gay/Collison or the Cousins/Gay/Rondo trio we had last season. Brad Stevens is a good coach but he's not some coaching legend like Greg Popovich. Not yet anyway. And they've had two seasons of marginal success (made the playoffs, lost in the first round) to back up their claim of being an up-and-coming team. So really it comes down to just a few additional factors:

(1) Boston went after Horford immediately and made him feel wanted. Did we even attempt to make him an offer or just assume that he wouldn't be interested because we're Sacramento? The report is we called Garrett Temple at midnight when Free Agency started. I like Temple, but that's setting our sights pretty low. (2) A chance to join a winning team. Boston was the 5th seed in the East last year while we were a train wreck. How much could competitive drive have really influenced him though when the team he left was the 4th seed in the East last year and beat the Celtics in the playoffs? His situation in Boston now is no better than the one he left in Atlanta. He still has no chance of beating Cleveland. (3) Staying on the East coast. I buy this as a factor but not the factor. (4) Tradition, the parquet court, the banners. Probably a factor for some players but for Horford specifically? Tough to say. Just speculation. (5) The Kings organization as far as everyone else is concerned is plumbing new depths of incompetence rarely achieved in professional sports. This is a big one and the fallout of the last 3 years of Vivek ownership could take a decade to scrub away.

Here's what Horford himself had to say:

"There was a lot of impact on me with Danny Ainge and coach (Brad) Stevens. It was a very positive meeting. Two of their owners were in the meeting and three or four of their players were there too. They seemed like a very close group and were focused on what their goal was and they got my attention. I wasn't sure in what direction I was going to go. But I knew in order to leave Atlanta it was going to take a very special situation."

(link)

While I think the small market stigma is a bit of an issue, there are 7 NBA teams that play in similar markets (Magic, Blazers, Hornets, Jazz, Pacers, Spurs, Bucks) and 3 more that play in substantially smaller markets (Pelicans, Grizzlies, Thunder). What's really handicapping us is the lack of a strong identity coming out of the front office. We're starting to see one develop now which is why I would never suggest firing Vlade or Coach Joerger unless they do something blatantly horrible. If the situation is good and the people involved are good, I don't think most players will care all that much if they're spending half the year in a top tier city or a middle tier city. The arena is no longer a handicap for us. The bickering coach/players/GM situation is no longer a handicap for us though bickering owners might still be...

Basically I think it's too easy to blame the city name for problems which are our own creation -- problems which would torpedo any team, regardless of locale. San Antonio and Indianapolis have managed to field teams that win consistently and attract free agents. Meanwhile Washington has the luxury of playing in the 4th biggest media market in the country and they've been floundering for decades. Management is what counts. A winning team with a superstar player in a new arena filled with enthusiastic fans isn't a bad gig. But management has to sell that to players and it's a tough sell given all the negative press they've already accumulated.

 

[IfAt1st]

uh, why would any name NBA player come to Sacramento after seeing how badly Demarcus is treated by the franchise, and how little his desires are taken into account?

If anyone thinks the Kings have catered to Demarcus since he's been drafted here, they've been listening too much to Grant.

The star player, the coach(es), the ownership are quite clearly not on the same page here, and haven;t been for over 10 years.

THAT's why no name player will come here until the Kings demonstrate they are fully behind their star (Boogie), treat him right, and give him what he wants.

Hell, Boogie doesn;t even get the starting PF next to him he wants on this team right now!
If anyone thinks Boogie wants to play next to Kosta, you haven;t been watching the team close enough the past couple years...

 

[Blob]

You may think that the Kings are so good that they can walk into Boston and give the Celtics all they want on a night when Rudy doesn't show up and Boogie struggles from the field, with nobody else playing a good game. I do not.

The flow of this game was determined when Barnes, Lawson and sometimes Temple came in off the bench flying around scrapping and challenging and making life hard for the Cs. Along the way Barnes, at 36, tied his career high in rebounds with 16, and carried the biggest +/- on the team. Without him this one is not close.

Fair enough, Barnes was scrappy for sure. But if a player goes 3-11 FGs, I cannot grade higher than B+ no matter what else he does.

 

[SacTownKid]

In the past Boogie was reluctant to share the rock. He's really not now. If we had a SG worthy of stepping up and being a star, Boogie nor Rudy would prevent that. Also, Omri has never proven himself to be a capable as a starter. Affalo was a capable starter prior to joining up with the Knicks. At this point thinking either one of these guys is to be more than respectable role player is wishful thinking. If either guy is a starter your team is probably not very good.

How can you be a star getting 4-5 shots on some nights? The shots have to come from somewhere and it's the same story with Collison, Cuz, and Gay, they are the primary ball handlers and they decide what happens with the shots and they are usually the ones taking them.

 

[Blob]

How can you be a star getting 4-5 shots on some nights? The shots have to come from somewhere and it's the same story with Collison, Cuz, and Gay, they are the primary ball handlers and they decide what happens with the shots and they are usually the ones taking them.

When a player has game, can create his shot, teammates recognize. Teammates ain't recognizing (or respecting) Affalo. He's not creating his shot. He's not creating space against his defender. He's not prone to hot streaks where he demands the ball. His post game is pretty good but he's not getting many opportunities. Teammates all intuit this and react accordingly. By contrast one improvement in Ben is that he's more aggressive as a shot taker this year, though his efficiency is not where it needs to be:

• A-Slow-o : 7 shots attempts in 26 MPG
• Ben: 6 shot attempts in 16 MPG

Ben is looking for his shot more, creating his shot more, taking his shot more. And this is what we need at that position, albeit at improved efficiency. All three guys at our SG position are basically scoring at the same rate: Ben is 53% TS, A-Slow-o is also 53% TS, Temple is 52.5% TS. None of this is good enough and reflects our sorry 7-12 record.

The difference is that Ben is the more aggressive shot taker, and we need an aggressive SG to spread the wealth. Boogie's efficiency is good at 56.4% TS but it is slipping from where it was at 58% about 1-2 weeks ago because his teammates are not carrying their respective load of the scoring burden. We need Affalo to make plays of his own volition, command the ball, command the respect of his teammates, but that hasn't happened because he's NOT good enough.

Here's a comprehensive and detailed analysis: OUR STARTING SG IS NOT GOOD!!! SOMETHING HIGHLY PREDICTABLE IN AUGUST.

At this point it is a matter of Joerger saying to himself "how much longer can I wait on this guy to be the player we need to be?" If he has any confidence in him, he has more confidence in him than I do. I have seen enough from Affalo and his best is not good enough. At least with Ben, youth is on his side, and his best play is ahead of him. Affalo's best is in the rear view mirror, so let's stop looking back and start looking forward and right this ship before another season bites the dust.

 

[pshn80]

When a player has game, can create his shot, teammates recognize. Teammates ain't recognizing (or respecting) Affalo. He's not creating his shot. He's not creating space against his defender. He's not prone to hot streaks where he demands the ball. His post game is pretty good but he's not getting many opportunities. Teammates all intuit this and react accordingly. By contrast one improvement in Ben is that he's more aggressive as a shot taker this year, though his efficiency is not where it needs to be:

• A-Slow-o : 7 shots attempts in 26 MPG
• Ben: 6 shot attempts in 16 MPG

Ben is looking for his shot more, creating his shot more, taking his shot more. And this is what we need at that position, albeit at improved efficiency. All three guys at our SG position are basically scoring at the same rate: Ben is 53% TS, A-Slow-o is also 53% TS, Temple is 52.5% TS. None of this is good enough and reflects our sorry 7-12 record.

The difference is that Ben is the more aggressive shot taker, and we need an aggressive SG to spread the wealth. Boogie's efficiency is good at 56.4% TS but it is slipping from where it was at 58% about 1-2 weeks ago because his teammates are not carrying their respective load of the scoring burden. We need Affalo to make plays of his own volition, command the ball, command the respect of his teammates, but that hasn't happened because he's NOT good enough.

Here's a comprehensive and detailed analysis: OUR STARTING SG IS NOT GOOD!!! SOMETHING HIGHLY PREDICTABLE IN AUGUST.

At this point it is a matter of Joerger saying to himself "how much longer can I wait on this guy to be the player we need to be?" If he has any confidence in him, he has more confidence in him than I do. I have seen enough from Affalo and his best is not good enough. At least with Ben, youth is on his side, and his best play is ahead of him. Affalo's best is in the rear view mirror, so let's stop looking back and start looking forward and right this ship before another season bites the dust.

Make Afflalo take more shots, more threes. When has he done this? Through game plan and deliberate effort of teammates. Let's try it. I have not seen such an effort this season. Make the team try this and, if necessary, let him fail doing it for a series of games. We're not winning anyway so why not try it.

 

[Kingsfan23]

When a player has game, can create his shot, teammates recognize. Teammates ain't recognizing (or respecting) Affalo. He's not creating his shot. He's not creating space against his defender. He's not prone to hot streaks where he demands the ball. His post game is pretty good but he's not getting many opportunities. Teammates all intuit this and react accordingly. By contrast one improvement in Ben is that he's more aggressive as a shot taker this year, though his efficiency is not where it needs to be:

• A-Slow-o : 7 shots attempts in 26 MPG
• Ben: 6 shot attempts in 16 MPG

Ben is looking for his shot more, creating his shot more, taking his shot more. And this is what we need at that position, albeit at improved efficiency. All three guys at our SG position are basically scoring at the same rate: Ben is 53% TS, A-Slow-o is also 53% TS, Temple is 52.5% TS. None of this is good enough and reflects our sorry 7-12 record.

The difference is that Ben is the more aggressive shot taker, and we need an aggressive SG to spread the wealth. Boogie's efficiency is good at 56.4% TS but it is slipping from where it was at 58% about 1-2 weeks ago because his teammates are not carrying their respective load of the scoring burden. We need Affalo to make plays of his own volition, command the ball, command the respect of his teammates, but that hasn't happened because he's NOT good enough.

Here's a comprehensive and detailed analysis: OUR STARTING SG IS NOT GOOD!!! SOMETHING HIGHLY PREDICTABLE IN AUGUST.

At this point it is a matter of Joerger saying to himself "how much longer can I wait on this guy to be the player we need to be?" If he has any confidence in him, he has more confidence in him than I do. I have seen enough from Affalo and his best is not good enough. At least with Ben, youth is on his side, and his best play is ahead of him. Affalo's best is in the rear view mirror, so let's stop looking back and start looking forward and right this ship before another season bites the dust.

Afflalo lacks vitality to be certain. No affect on winning so far. He's not atrocious, but the team around him isn't good enough for a mannequin out there balling. Need more energy from the position

 

[King Baller]

I have enjoyed watching the Celtics since the early 1960s when I went to basketball camp with Morgan Wooten at DeMatha High School in Wash DC. His teams used to beat major college freshmen teams by 40 points. Coach would bring in special guests from Notre Dame and the NBA to talk with us. We always looked forward to getting a visit from Red Auerbach. He would smoke cigars and make shots from half court on one bounce.

Now I get to watch IT the NBA All-Star run their team. Brad Stephens is getting the most out of his players. I think we got out coached last night. It was a pretty well played game.

You know sometimes the ball just goes in for the other team and not for your team. The Celtics game was just that.

 

[Blob]

Make Afflalo take more shots, more threes. When has he done this? Through and deliberate effort of teammates. Let's try it. I have not seen such an effort this season. Make the team try this and, if necessary, let him fail doing it for a series of games. We're not winning anyway so why not try it.

Make a player take more shots? You can't make a player take more shots. It's on him to make it happen. Look, the bottom line is that Affalo was not a good signing. We did pretty good with Temple and Ty, but the other guys are just passing through, not unlike Acy and Marco.

 

[Blob]

Afflalo lacks vitality to be certain. No affect on winning so far. He's not atrocious, but the team around him isn't good enough for a mannequin out there balling. Need more energy from the position

His athleticism is lacking for sure, and the way you make up for a lack of athleticism is with a bull's eye shooting touch. But he lacks that too.

 

[kingsboi]

Trill was given only 11 minutes playing time.

Even so, he needs to play a lot harder and prove that he deserves more minutes. In those 11 minutes, he was good for a lay up and a dunk and after that just taking up space and doing nothing with it.

 

[kingsboi]

No at the time al horford was the only big/post threat and cousins and Koufos were still out there... do u even watch the games?

I suppose you and I see the game through different spectacles.

 

[pshn80]

Make a player take more shots? You can't make a player take more shots. It's on him to make it happen. Look, the bottom line is that Affalo was not a good signing. We did pretty good with Temple and Ty, but the other guys are just passing through, not unlike Acy and Marco.

I say try it. We've nothing to lose. And by asking, encouraging, teammates working on it, I think you can "make" him do it.

 

[kingsboi]

Afflalo lacks vitality to be certain. No affect on winning so far. He's not atrocious, but the team around him isn't good enough for a mannequin out there balling. Need more energy from the position

It seems to me that Afflalo has the same impact as Gay does where their play is inconclusive to winning, out of all the teams Afflalo has started for, how many of them have been winning teams? I'm not directing this question directly at you, whoever wants to answer this may do so.

 

[Blob]

I say try it. We've nothing to lose. And by asking, encouraging, teammates working on it, I think you can "make" him do it.

It doesn't really work like this.

 

[Blob]

It seems to me that Afflalo has the same impact as Gay does where their play is inconclusive to winning, out of all the teams Afflalo has started for, how many of them have been winning teams? I'm not directing this question directly at you, whoever wants to answer this may do so.

I think that is short-selling Rudy. He's in a higher class than Affalo when his game is on.

 

[kingsboi]

I think that is short-selling Rudy. He's in a higher class than Affalo when his game is on.

I'm not disputing that. I'm simply stating that despite all the pretty numbers Rudy puts up from time to time, he has yet to do so on a winning team or a team that has a chance to not just be one and done in the playoffs.

 

[kingsboi]

I say try it. We've nothing to lose. And by asking, encouraging, teammates working on it, I think you can "make" him do it.

You don't "make" him do anything, you play him off the bench and encourage him to be aggressive on offensive end to provide some scoring.

 

[Suicide King]

I think that is short-selling Rudy. He's in a higher class than Affalo when his game is on.

I agree. Unfortunately it is not on as much as we need, and I get the feeling it has something to do with just going through the motions until he is traded. We need what he can bring, I just don't think he really wants to bring it. I am definitely not placing all blame on Rudy and he is a great player. I just get a sense of negative energy surrounding the situation with Rudy, and we are not going to be successful if we just stand pat.

 

[sactownfan]

I suppose you and I see the game through different spectacles.

Well the Kings writers and more people on this forum by the day seem to be seeing it thru my spectacles

 

[kingsboi]

Well the Kings writers and more people on this forum by the day seem to be seeing it thru my spectacles

When you see through your spectacles, do you see a lot of black and white?

 

[Mr. S£im Citrus]

I'm not disputing that. I'm simply stating that despite all the pretty numbers Rudy puts up from time to time, he has yet to do so on a winning team or a team that has a chance to not just be one and done in the playoffs.

Well, which is it? Because one of those statements is not factually accurate.

 

[ppine]

Horford has made the Celtics a much better team.

 

[pshn80]

I'm not disputing that. I'm simply stating that despite all the pretty numbers Rudy puts up from time to time, he has yet to do so on a winning team or a team that has a chance to not just be one and done in the playoffs.

Same with Cuz.

 

[Larry89]

one of the easiest if not supposedly the easiest stretches of basketball of the season and we lost to the wizards and celtics in rather pathetic fashion

 

[Bricklayer]

one of the easiest if not supposedly the easiest stretches of basketball of the season and we lost to the wizards and celtics in rather pathetic fashion

What's this?

We lost an OT game on the road, on the second night of a back to back. And we got narrowly beat by a getting healthy Boston team that is considered a possible homecourt team in the East.

We need some wins, but people all season long have been tagging our losses as "pathetic", "horrible" etc. etc. in just headhsaking fashion. Orlando and Milwaulkee are really the only two headslappers, and Milwaulkee was a .500 team on their home floor. We just obviously did not show up/it should have been closer. But losing was hardly inexplicable.

 

[bajaden]

Even so, he needs to play a lot harder and prove that he deserves more minutes. In those 11 minutes, he was good for a lay up and a dunk and after that just taking up space and doing nothing with it.

I have no problem with Willie's effort on offense. If you don't touch the ball, it's hard to do much of anything. My issue with him is with his rebounding. His reactions to the ball are a step too late, or not at all. I find him being a spectator instead of moving toward the basket. I have no answer as to why, because I doubt it's being lazy. I also doubt it's by design. Defensively he's very good at times, and then makes a mistake, like playing a little too far off of Horford after he had already hit a couple of three's.

Now to be fair, Willie wasn't the only player to play too far off of Horford. It's just that we seem to be holding Willie to a higher standard for some reason. Every mistake gets magnified on this forum, while Cuz, or Koufos can make the same mistake, and nothing is said. Truth is, a young player is more likely to make mistakes. Offensively Willie has taken what's there for the most part, and when it's not there, he moves the ball. He seldom turns the ball over which is a plus. It's obvious to me that for the most part, Willie isn't the first, second, third or even fourth option on offense. Maybe that will change in the future. But for now, he needs to become a better rebounder and I'll be happy.

 

[bajaden]

It seems to me that Afflalo has the same impact as Gay does where their play is inconclusive to winning, out of all the teams Afflalo has started for, how many of them have been winning teams? I'm not directing this question directly at you, whoever wants to answer this may do so.

I see where your going with this, and understand your point, but using that as a starndard would mean that Cousins has no impact either since he's never been on a winning team.

 

[kingsboi]

Well, which is it? Because one of those statements is not factually accurate.

the latter?