Tetsujin
The Game Thread Dude
I was looking forward to a KATCuz matchup and fingers crossed that's what we get
[Grades] Grades v. Bucks 11/25/2015
- Thread starter Bricklayer
- Start date
IfAt1st
Starter
This game was set-up for a catastrophic repeat of the Hornets, where George Karl kept playing 3 guards and a smallball lineup when the Kings were in the lead!
Karl got bailed out by Collison's desperation 3-pointers that actually went in (as well as Collison and Casspi making open 3-ptrs they usually don't) to seal the win.
Without those going in (and open 3-ptrs missed by the Bucks) he may well have been fired because of the past 2 games.
The Kings are that close to a shattered season (and potentially franchise).
This win in no way fixes any of the problems (mostly defensive and rotations) the Kings have.
Karl got bailed out by Collison's desperation 3-pointers that actually went in (as well as Collison and Casspi making open 3-ptrs they usually don't) to seal the win.
Without those going in (and open 3-ptrs missed by the Bucks) he may well have been fired because of the past 2 games.
The Kings are that close to a shattered season (and potentially franchise).
This win in no way fixes any of the problems (mostly defensive and rotations) the Kings have.
K
KingMilz
Guest
Considering the circumstances that was the best game Rudy has ever played for us he finally stepped up when Cousins was out and just took apart the Greek Freak and did a good job defending there wings also. The ball was moving and really everyone that played contributed and Karls rotations were way better this game.
The good thing about playing the Warriors is the longer there streak goes the more likely they are to lose one.
The good thing about playing the Warriors is the longer there streak goes the more likely they are to lose one.
I
Im Still Ballin
Guest
If Cousins plays, we will beat the Warriors. It will be an epic moment. I believe. Cousins will have a 50/20 game, lighting it up from deep.
Letsgokings13
Starter
What altercation?
Does that include games where he was essentially the first option due to Cousins being out?
ninjabiscuit
Bench
Always a ray of sunshine.
Yes, part of the job description.
But then it's not exactly comparable is it? Will be naturally inflated.
Kingston Jamaica
Bench
I had a very good feeling watching the game. The team played very focused all the way like they were on a mission. Even when the Bucks appeared to come back, the team didn't lose its style, but pulled away again. In short, I didn't feel at all that this will fade away again in the final minutes. Great team ball. Actually the only one that needs to improve in team ball is Collison. He is trying too much one-on-one plays.
I don't know what exactly you're expecting. Yes Cousins has sat out quite a few games for various reasons. We all know that it's Rudy's job to step up in that situation because nobody else on the team is a 20+ ppg scorer. And he's doing that. Does that artificially inflate his scoring average? Well he had 28 points in the previous game against the Hornets and Cousins did play in that one. Either way the sample size is small but people here have been reacting to Rudy's play so far this season as if he's a black mark on the team when in fact he's playing as well overall as he ever has. He's never going to be a defensive stopper. He could be better on that end but we absolutely need his scoring whether Cousins plays or not and he's getting it done. 19.5 points, 6.9 rebs, 2.4 assists, .474/.359/.804 shooting. All I'm saying is this was a good moment to take a deep breath and appreciate his importance to the team.
I'm a little worried that Cuz will struggle vs KAT, and KAT will do well against Cuz. I really want to see WCS vs. KAT
flamecrow
Bench
Me. Too.
bajaden
Hall of Famer
As you may well know from things I wrote in the prospects forum, I'm a huge Towns fan and predicted superstardom for him. He can do just about everything Cuz can do, plus he's a better athlete than Cuz, and a way better defender in his first year than Cuz ever dreamed of being then. Of course Cousins is now a good defender, but it took him four years to arrive there. So like you, I'm really looking forward seeing that matchup. Town's has never faced someone like Cousins, so it won't be a walk in the park for him, but I think defensively for Cuz, it will almost be like facing himself.
Glenn
Hall of Famer
In the last two games Rudy has done his job. I even saw a blocked shot on the ball last night. He was closer to his man especially as the game progressed . He will not be a defensive stopper. He is more valuable saving his energy for offense. We'll see how that evolves. I don't rewatch games but it appeared to me that the paint at the end of the game was jammed by our defense. I don't know who to give credit for that but WCS was on the court - I think.
This was a game where everyone played up to their potential or at least came close. That's the only way we can win without Boogie. It was an 8 man rotation meaning if all healthy, we have 9 legitimate NBA players and that is exactly what Vlade got us. It took awhile for a few to get comfortable and I suspect "comfort" will add up as the year evolves. I hope Boogie learned he can trust his team and doesn't have to do it all himself. There was a quote a few days ago where he seemed a little suprised that he didn't have to bust his ass and we still played well.
Karl made a comment that he liked Casspi and Rudy on the court at the same time. Not focusing on that comment in its specifics, he seems to be watching the players closely and trying to figure out how to use then WHICH IS HIS JOB. He is not mailing it in. How far he will go in changing the way the team plays is difficult to say but at a minimum, he will play the most efficient small ball that he can.
WCS is a stud that deserves minutes but then so is Cuz and in a lesser but still effective way, so is Kosta. Kosta is a happy surprise. Not sure how Karl will resolve that in his small ball brain.
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You know, he could play Casspi/Gay at the 2/3.Karl made a comment that he liked Casspi and Rudy on the court at the same time. Not focusing on that comment in its specifics, he seems to be watching the players closely and trying to figure out how to use then WHICH IS HIS JOB. He is not mailing it in. How far he will go in changing the way the team plays is difficult to say but at a minimum, he will play the most efficient small ball that he can.
KingsFanSince85
All-Star
I like Towns, but I don't think he's as skilled or as nimble as Cuz. He can jump higher, but that's not the only mark of a good athlete. Cuz has SF/G skills that I'm not sure Towns can replicate to the same degree.
With regard to Cuz's defense, he's always had the ability to be the defender he is now -- even during his rookie season. It was more a question of effort and having a coaching staff that demanded it from him.
Bricklayer
Don't Make Me Use The Bat
I like Towns a lot and think of all the young centers out there, he might be the guy most likely to rise up and give Cousins some real non-media made competition for best center in future years.
that said he had 6pts 6rebs last game, and got killed by Jahil Okafor just before that. He's still a rookie going against peak Cousins. And Cousins is a guy who has always liked to send messages and mark his territory.
Glenn
Hall of Famer
Is that why he sometimes lifts his leg when he is celebrating?
rainmaker
Hall of Famer
We can't afford that sort of insane out of the box thinking.
lawlman91
Starter
If we're making the playoffs, I'd like for us to be the 8th seed. Of course I want the Kings to succeed and get a higher seed, but I want us to face the Warriors in the playoffs for publicity and rivalry purposes. Bring them to 7 games. Or at least 7th seed and beat the 2nd. But that's less likely.
Bricklayer
Don't Make Me Use The Bat
That's fine.
But no. How about we get the 6th seed, avoid the first round elimination entirely, and meet them later on?
kingsboi
Hall of Famer
The Dubs play PHX on Friday so have the longer travel on back-to-back. Kings will have confidence of playing well in first match-up vs GSW and all the motivation in the world, assuming they are 17-0. Hopefully we can blow out the Wolves so our main guys don't have to play extended minutes on Friday...so we can shock the world on Saturday.
the Kings will not blow out the T Wolves. They are playing much better this year and they are healthy. It will be a tough one to win but winnable none the less. Warriors have lost only twice in two seasons at home....if any team is maybe going to get a win out of them in Oracle, it's going to be someone like San Antonio or Dallas.
Well you said "After tonight's scoring explosion, only Kevin Durant (basically a tie with Westbrook), Brandon Knight, Kyle Lowry, and CJ McCollum are scoring more points per game than Rudy Gay as a second option right now."
In other words, you're using PPG to compare effectiveness as a second option. But if a significant number of those games are where the player was the first option then his PPG numbers will naturally be inflated as he gets even more touches and attempts, in which case it doesn't make much sense to say that one player is doing his job well as a second option based on his PPG relative to other supposed second options. That's all I'm saying, unless I misinterpreted your original point.
I don't think you misinterpreted me, but it's clear we have different assumptions about what the role of a second option scorer on a basketball team is. You seem fixated on how many points Rudy Gay scores only while playing alongside Cousins. To me that's a frivolous qualification. Did the points Peja scored when Chris Webber was injured not count? Did they not help us win games? The second option scorer should be a guy who's capable of winning games without your star. It should also be someone who knows their role and is willing to defer when your star is playing. Both are true of Rudy.
If I were actually going to undertake some objective study of who the best second option scorers in the league are than the distinction you're making would be relevant. But I didn't say Rudy Gay was the 5th best #2 guy in the league, I just pointed out a statistic which is true as of today and suggests he's pretty damn good. Top 5, top 10, top 20, somebody else can trouble themself with figuring that out.
sono
Starter
I loved the way Casspi played. As usual brought up his energy, hustling and scoring; but most notably he never forced anything, played within his limits. When he does that he's easily the best bench player to me.
I think this was Bellinelli's best scoring night, although his scoring % is the worst of his career this season. Yet his timely made shots are always money, impacts the game.
I think this was Bellinelli's best scoring night, although his scoring % is the worst of his career this season. Yet his timely made shots are always money, impacts the game.
That's fair. I guess I inferred from your comparing his PPG to those other guys that you were essentially implying "Gay scores as much as these other second options (who are pretty good), therefore he is just as good a second option as these guys". Perhaps my inference was wrong. I don't disagree that Gay has (contrary to what it may seem) played well. Let's say both Gay and Cousins went down for a third of our games and Karl designated Ben as option #1, taking 30 shots a game, and Ben ends up averaging 20ppg because of that. It wouldn't then make sense to compare him to a 3rd option on another team and say "Aha, Ben is averaging more than that guy, so he's a much better 3rd option". As such, comparing PPG doesn't mean much IMO, but again that depends what point you were trying to prove in bringing it up.
Scoring on its own is not a stat I take very seriously, and maybe we differ there. In my opinion anybody in the league could average 30 points. It may take them 50 shots a game and they might never win a game, but that players' PPG would still be a high number. In fact, you probably said it best yourself: the second option scorer should be a guy who's capable of winning games without your star. In that regard, Gay hasn't quite been that good this season.
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