Grades v. Bobcats 01/18/10

[Sptsjunkie]

34 points, 7 assists, 3 turnovers, solid defense...that earns an A+ in my book.

Is it becoming blatantly obvious that Kevin Martin disrupts our flow?

I haven't gotten to actually watch the last couple of games. Is our offense stagnating because Martin is holding the ball for too long and bogging us down or is PW trying to run too many plays for Martin and going away from the ball movement and Reke penetration that has been very efficient for us?

 

[casspion]

There was the team we have been enjoying all season!

It is piling on, but look, its also true -- we, the real us, emerged as soon as Kevin went to the bench for the last time. As soon as the foreign body was purged the energy picked back up dramatically and it was the young guys playing comeback Kings again (with Noc in the role of Udoka as veteran three point bomber). Its piling on. Its also very clearly what happened. Now we need to figure out why, and what to do about it. Because this was the team people will pay to watch.


placeholder...

I agree with your analysis but your wording is a bit harsh. Kevin is not a bad player or a bad guy. You describe him as an alien invader or cancer. He is a basketball player who no longer fit with this team and doesn't bring added value. No need for the sci-fi/medical dramatization.

 

[SacTownGrantFan]

I agree with your analysis but your wording is a bit harsh. Kevin is not a bad player or a bad guy. You describe him as an alien invader or cancer. He is a basketball player who no longer fit with this team and doesn't bring added value. No need for the sci-fi/medical dramatization.

Calling Kevin a foreign body can mean many things; it doesn't have to fit your interpretation of sci-fi/cancer.

 

[casspion]

Calling Kevin a foreign body can mean many things; it doesn't have to fit your interpretation of sci-fi/cancer.

the foreign body was purged.....

 

[Emma]

Calling Kevin a foreign body can mean many things; it doesn't have to fit your interpretation of sci-fi/cancer.

STGF was not the only person to get that impression. I'm glad I'm not the only one who thought Brick was dipping into medical terminology in order describe Kevin as the problem.

 

[SacTownGrantFan]

I haven't gotten to actually watch the last couple of games. Is our offense stagnating because Martin is holding the ball for too long and bogging us down or is PW trying to run too many plays for Martin and going away from the ball movement and Reke penetration that has been very efficient for us?

Glad you asked.

I'm not sure why it happens either. I think that somehow he hasn't been fitting into the skill set of players around him and what each can do.

The way I see it, Evans is the dominant scorer and therefore pressure is taken off of role players such as Casspi & Udrih.

Kevin's job for us last year was to isolate the ball in his hands and single-handedly pour points onto the board. This is how he would get such stats as 40 points and 2 assists. The point is that we don't need that isolated, individual-efficient scoring anymore. Kevin's old style of play interferes with what the Kings have been doing well.

 

[bajaden]

It seems Casspi has regressed the past few games by taking some bad shots and not passing

Donte needs to be back in the starting lineup, btw Thompson has devolved

Gotta disagree on this one. He was taking the same shots he's been taking all year. Of late he just hasn't been making them. Some of the shots he missed were wide open. Not unique to him. Nocioni does it all the time. Martin wasn't exactly a scoring machine.

 

[Kingsguy881]

I know it is in our fan's blood to be negative but maybe we can point out the positive aspect of having a player named Tyreke like Tyreke who can put a team on his back and bring them back from the brink of extinction into a realm of respectability with a chance to make them succeed? Maybe?

I understand, we need to blame Martin because before he came back we had the best record in the Western Conference and now we are looking at a 4th seed at best, but honestly. 2 games into his return from a broken arm?

Maybe if Westphal can get Martin to play some defense......

 

[bajaden]

The thing is he could have had more had he actually attacked earlier in the game. Maybe he was deferring to K-Mart but the point is that if he was playing like he did in the second half in the first, we end up winning this game.

I think its a little worse than that. I think the whole team is deferring to Martin. If not conciously, then unconciously.

 

[Mr. S£im Citrus]

I know it is in our fan's blood to be negative but maybe we can point out the positive aspect of having a player named Tyreke like Tyreke who can put a team on his back and bring them back from the brink of extinction into a realm of respectability with a chance to make them succeed? Maybe?

I understand, we need to blame Martin because before he came back we had the best record in the Western Conference and now we are looking at a 4th seed at best, but honestly...

Your "humor" is not funny; give it a rest already.

 

[bajaden]

Don't go crazy on Martin just yet...
If he makes the shots he usually makes today we win this game easily.

If Casspi makes the shots he normally makes we win today. If Nocioni doesn't miss that three pointer at the end, maybe we win today. If Beno has a normal game we win today. I could go on and on. But thats not what this is about. Its about how the whole team is playing since Martin was reinserted into the lineup. And its not about blaming Martin. Its about something not working. At least right now.

 

[Asaf]

Gotta give props to Tyreke. I don't know a lot of players who can score 34 points in a game and still not play selfish. He is scoring a lot but he has also become much much better at setting up his teammates recently. Unfortunately, they haven't been making the shots. When they do start making the shots again, though, it's going to be a lot of fun.

 

[Kingsguy881]

Your "humor" is not funny; give it a rest already.

Dude seriously, what's your problem? I'm trying to bring some perspective to a thread that is nothing but bashing players. Get off my back dude.

 

[Mr. S£im Citrus]

Dude seriously, what's your problem? I'm trying to bring some perspective to a thread that is nothing but bashing people. Get off my back dude.

No. I will not "get off your back."

When we get multiple complaints, that makes it our business. I'm telling you one more time to knock it off.

 

[bajaden]

I haven't gotten to actually watch the last couple of games. Is our offense stagnating because Martin is holding the ball for too long and bogging us down or is PW trying to run too many plays for Martin and going away from the ball movement and Reke penetration that has been very efficient for us?

Its one of those things thats really hard to explain without seeing it. For some reason, all the energy seems to be gone when Martin is on the floor. And thats not Martins fault of course. But non the less, thats whats happening. We've become more of a halfcourt team with him out there. Everything is slowing down. And think that takes away from what the young guys are good at, and thats chaos. They play well in a fast, but somewhat controled game. It could be that Martin, having not played much with these guys, is having a hard time figuring out how to fit in. And so they're slowing everything down to help him. At the expense of what makes them tick.

 

[Aenadin]

tyreke having a monster game.. I think Martin needs to come off the bench... two scoring guards cant co-exist that much. maybe in short stints they can come together... or a three guard combo of udrih, martin, evans. take note short stints.

martin would be an excellent source of bench points imo

 

[ElRey]

Its one of those things thats really hard to explain without seeing it. For some reason, all the energy seems to be gone when Martin is on the floor. And thats not Martins fault of course. But non the less, thats whats happening. We've become more of a halfcourt team with him out there. Everything is slowing down. And think that takes away from what the young guys are good at, and thats chaos. They play well in a fast, but somewhat controled game. It could be that Martin, having not played much with these guys, is having a hard time figuring out how to fit in. And so they're slowing everything down to help him. At the expense of what makes them tick.

bajaden, I think you might be on to something here. Martin is such a low key quiet guy that when he is on the court, the rest of the team's intensity drops significantly as well. Martin needs a little more fire and intensity to match his new team. Not playing well and losing doesn't seem to bother Martin all the much, whereas the rest of the guys (including Hawes) really show it on the court when things aren't going well. This teams needs a vocal leader which is a role I don't think Martin can fill well.

Just some random thoughts. don't kill me if you're a Martin fan.

 

[venom_7]

Don't go crazy on Martin just yet...
If he makes the shots he usually makes today we win this game easily.

This is as good a point as any. Kudos for Westphal for not trying to pump life into Kevin to the detriment of the team. Sat him down, today wasn't his day. Here is the deal. Kevin missed about 4 wide-the-hell open shots from three, a couple of 2's that he would normally hit, and didn't really force anything on offense.

His real burden to the team is on the defensive end. And not that he is doing horribly as an individual defender, but he doesn't seem to try and communicate with the rest of the team. As one of the grad students on campus, the freshmen are looking to him for advice, and he isn't providing.

Note to Kevin: Get on board, we'd love to have ya. Start by translating the intensity from the rest of the team into terms you can understand, and let it fuel you on both ends.

This is by no means a call to trade Kevin, because I still think as a backcourt, the Speed-Reke show could turn a lot of heads. Three games into Kevin's return to the renaissance is not a big enough sample size to make any trade decisions on.

We will see how things go against ATL because Joe Johnson is not known for his defensive presence, and Tyreke may as well practice against a chair tomorrow, because even that will give him more trouble than Mike Bibby.

The team does play better with Brockman on the floor, but it doesn't work so well when teams can leave their shotblocker 'guarding' Brock thereby scaring Tyreke away from the paint and ruining our spacing. So it is a double edged sword. Against teams like Chicago and Charlotte, teams that don't have a shotblocker or their shotblocker is hurt, it works great. Against Orlando, Philly, Washington, not so much.

This is as much as I would say in the game thread for ATL, so ryanandty if you want you can put some in a 'venominal' section for me.

 

[JoMama]

Gotta give Kevin more time, but the trade deadline is nearing. Has anybody ever seen Kevin Martin get mad and put out real effort? I can't recall the moment.

 

[Aenadin]

im pretty sure some team would be giving more than they need to for martin.... though I dont know.. if we cant trade him, set him up for 6th man till cisco returns... THEN try a cisco tyreke tandem. i have a feeling a cisco tyreke tandem would work.

 

[JoMama]

im pretty sure some team would be giving more than they need to for martin.... though I dont know.. if we cant trade him, set him up for 6th man till cisco returns... THEN try a cisco tyreke tandem. i have a feeling a cisco tyreke tandem would work.

I like Cisco's energy and his three-point shooting to go with Tyreke's talents. Energy guys win games. Kobe and LeBron are both high-energy guys with a ton of game. Kevin appears to be narcoleptic on the court.

 

[Uncia03]

I haven't gotten to actually watch the last couple of games. Is our offense stagnating because Martin is holding the ball for too long and bogging us down or is PW trying to run too many plays for Martin and going away from the ball movement and Reke penetration that has been very efficient for us?

As with most other posters, it's really difficult to pin down exactly what is happening. Kevin shot a decent percentage the past two games but shot horribly today. Kevin had 4 assists last game, and today came away with 6 rebounds. So you can't look at the stats and say that Kevin isn't playing well. He's scoring and he is contributing in other areas.

He had to guard Stephan Jackson (which he matches up horribly against), but wasn't too bad on defense the previous two games.

His teammates are missing shots that they were making earlier, and you really can't blame him for those shots being missed.

But along-side some of the other theories out there I'm going to toss out another one:

When Kevin came out, the energy/intensity/focus/hustle really turned itself on, and we were down by 20+ at that point. Now part of it could have been the Bobcats lowering their intensity, but what if it's as simple as:

Tyreke/Donte/Brockman believe they can still win the game while Kevin, being the veteran, knows the game is out of reach?

I think it could be a factor that some of our players have the belief that they can win any game, while perhaps others are willing to just call it a day.

Now, I'm not saying that Kevin is a loser, but I am saying that there is a tangible change in the team dynamic/energy/intensity when Tyreke is the undisputed go-to guy and Donte/Brockman/Casspi are allowed to play the Wingman to Tyreke with-out worry of being pulled.

Anyone who watched the 2nd half of the 3rd Quarter and the 4th Quarter saw the change in the team, and saw a return of the play that we had become accustomed to when playing the likes of the Cavs and Lakers.

 

[Aenadin]

cisco play's with fire.... and actually plays defense and can get a couple of blocks.. and he can set up other people too.

 

[allrightythen]

I didn't see the whole game, didn't realize it was so early until after it had started. From what I saw Jon Brockman deserves a good grade and more playing time. What has really surprised me is his athleticism, even for NBA standards he is a very good athlete. I'm not ready to say he should start yet but he should be at least in the regular rotation. Lastly we have to find a way to get Donte on the court some more, IMO he is our best all around defender and we are extremely week there and with more time I think his offensive game could really take off.

 

[Uncia03]

I loved this quote from Westphal after the game:

When asked what he could take away from a game like this he said:

"We can take satisfaction in that when we protect our paint we can be a decent-to-good defensive team. And we can also learn that when we don't, we are horrible."

You know that he's certainly pushing to get some interior defensive help. Let's hope that we can find a team to become a trading partner with.

 

[SacTownGrantFan]

As with most other posters, it's really difficult to pin down exactly what is happening. Kevin shot a decent percentage the past two games but shot horribly today. Kevin had 4 assists last game, and today came away with 6 rebounds. So you can't look at the stats and say that Kevin isn't playing well. He's scoring and he is contributing in other areas.

He had to guard Stephan Jackson (which he matches up horribly against), but wasn't too bad on defense the previous two games.

His teammates are missing shots that they were making earlier, and you really can't blame him for those shots being missed.

But along-side some of the other theories out there I'm going to toss out another one:

When Kevin came out, the energy/intensity/focus/hustle really turned itself on, and we were down by 20+ at that point. Now part of it could have been the Bobcats lowering their intensity, but what if it's as simple as:

Tyreke/Donte/Brockman believe they can still win the game while Kevin, being the veteran, knows the game is out of reach?

I think it could be a factor that some of our players have the belief that they can win any game, while perhaps others are willing to just call it a day.

Now, I'm not saying that Kevin is a loser, but I am saying that there is a tangible change in the team dynamic/energy/intensity when Tyreke is the undisputed go-to guy and Donte/Brockman/Casspi are allowed to play the Wingman to Tyreke with-out worry of being pulled.

Anyone who watched the 2nd half of the 3rd Quarter and the 4th Quarter saw the change in the team, and saw a return of the play that we had become accustomed to when playing the likes of the Cavs and Lakers.

Yeah, you have to watch the game to say that.

 

[SacTownGrantFan]

I loved this quote from Westphal after the game:

When asked what he could take away from a game like this he said:

"We can take satisfaction in that when we protect our paint we can be a decent-to-good defensive team. And we can also learn that when we don't, we are horrible."

You know that he's certainly pushing to get some interior defensive help. Let's hope that we can find a team to become a trading partner with.

Hey, thanks for bringing up that quote. I had missed what he said exactly.

 

[bajaden]

bajaden, I think you might be on to something here. Martin is such a low key quiet guy that when he is on the court, the rest of the team's intensity drops significantly as well. Martin needs a little more fire and intensity to match his new team. Not playing well and losing doesn't seem to bother Martin all the much, whereas the rest of the guys (including Hawes) really show it on the court when things aren't going well. This teams needs a vocal leader which is a role I don't think Martin can fill well.

Just some random thoughts. don't kill me if you're a Martin fan.

I'm a fan of the team. And I doubt any player on this team wants to play badly. That includes Martin. Its almost as though I'm seeing Martin playing like he's on his tippy toes trying not to step on anyone's toes, and the rest of team responding in kind. The result is stagnation. Both by Martin and by the rest of the team. Can it be fixed? I don't have a clue. The bigger question should be, do we want to fix it? Is this what we need? If we fix it, how much does it help the team in the long run. And what was the cost in the short term and in the long term?

There's a part of me that feels sorry for Martin. A year ago this was his team. And although I know he endorsed our drafting Evans, I doubt he envisioned Evans becoming the heart and soul of this team. Just human nature. But I doubt the right fielder for the Boston Red Sox's thought he'd never play right field again for the Sox when he sat out a couple of games and a rookie named Ted Williams was inserted in his place. In sports, its what have you done lately. Not fair, but thats the way it is. In hollywood your only as good as your last movie. There's always someone out there that wants what you have. But if your tough, it makes you better. If not, your forgotten very quickly.

 

[Emma]

This is as much as I would say in the game thread for ATL, so ryanandty if you want you can put some in a 'venominal' section for me.

Alrighty boss. Seems I've got some style blending to do. I love a challenge.

 

[bajaden]

im pretty sure some team would be giving more than they need to for martin.... though I dont know.. if we cant trade him, set him up for 6th man till cisco returns... THEN try a cisco tyreke tandem. i have a feeling a cisco tyreke tandem would work.

I said earlier in the year that I thought Cisco was a better partner for Tyreke. He can handle the ball if necessary. Doesn't need the ball to be effective. He's a better defender than Martin, and a better passer. And he's a good spot up shooter, who last year was showing signs of becoming a decent pullup shooter. He would be a good complimentary player to Tyreke until someone better comes along.

Until such time as Cisco becomes available, I still like Tyreke, Greene, and Casspi as our perimiter players. They all like one another, and they play well together. And don't discount that last part. They all have a good feel for one another and have been trusting one another on defense. There's a lot more going on than just sticking a 25 point per game scorer into the lineup and saying how can it hurt?

I would bet you that Orlando would trade Vince Carter straight across for Hedo right now. They probably won't admit it, but they were a better team with Hedo. Both good players. One just fits better.