Grade the season
- Thread starter kupman
- Start date
kupman
Starter
I will start: B+
Pros:
Mike Bibby Trade - we freed up some money and I do not think we lost a step without Mike around; loved ya' Mike, but it was time to go.
Beno - we picked-up a guy that nobody wanted and discovered that he can play.
Kmart - continuing to get better
Garcia - last few weeks of the season really showed that he may have a bright future.
Hawes - see Garcia above
Miller - more like his old self
Theus - kept the team playing hard through tough times; helped develop a team that was fun to watch again
The team may have been the poorest team in the league to start the season. IMHO it was between us, Seattle and Minny. We progressed to being an average team and that is progress.
Cons:
Could not find a way to trade Artest for youth, money and/or a PF.
We lost to too many very bad teams.
Are we ever going to fiqure out what to do with our 4 spot?
Pros:
Mike Bibby Trade - we freed up some money and I do not think we lost a step without Mike around; loved ya' Mike, but it was time to go.
Beno - we picked-up a guy that nobody wanted and discovered that he can play.
Kmart - continuing to get better
Garcia - last few weeks of the season really showed that he may have a bright future.
Hawes - see Garcia above
Miller - more like his old self
Theus - kept the team playing hard through tough times; helped develop a team that was fun to watch again
The team may have been the poorest team in the league to start the season. IMHO it was between us, Seattle and Minny. We progressed to being an average team and that is progress.
Cons:
Could not find a way to trade Artest for youth, money and/or a PF.
We lost to too many very bad teams.
Are we ever going to fiqure out what to do with our 4 spot?
piksi
Hall of Famer
since D- wasn't offered - I will give it a D which is an improvement from the big fat F from the season before. I would have maybe gone with C- had we not helped the lakers.
Positive:
Muss is gone, Bibby was traded, beaten lakers once. benched KT, swept the Pistons
Negative:
Mediocre draft pick. Failed to acquire any additional first round picks. Artest is still here, no defense, no rebounding, too many turnovers, iso - basketball, lost to the Heat, no clear perspective for the future, kids underdeveloped. Started A.J., Mikki Moore, beings Ron's hostages, lost season series to the Clippers, players pick and chose games and more which I will leave out because the day has been depressive enough.
Positive:
Muss is gone, Bibby was traded, beaten lakers once. benched KT, swept the Pistons
Negative:
Mediocre draft pick. Failed to acquire any additional first round picks. Artest is still here, no defense, no rebounding, too many turnovers, iso - basketball, lost to the Heat, no clear perspective for the future, kids underdeveloped. Started A.J., Mikki Moore, beings Ron's hostages, lost season series to the Clippers, players pick and chose games and more which I will leave out because the day has been depressive enough.
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kupman
Starter
sorry, there is a limit of 10 options on the poll.
creAtivetfh
Starter
B-
mostly because i feel SO much better about some of our young talent (kmart, cisco, hawes, beno)
I'm actually looking forward to seeing what we might do in the offseason and in the draft.
mostly because i feel SO much better about some of our young talent (kmart, cisco, hawes, beno)
I'm actually looking forward to seeing what we might do in the offseason and in the draft.
I went with B-. Could have been better, but also could have been a lot worse. Last year was a total disaster, so maybe this year gets the benefit of just looking better in comparison. At least at feels like we're moving in a positive direction. Theus had his ups and downs, but mostly seemed to hold the team together and keep them playing hard. They beat a lot of good teams which is encouraging. Garcia and Hawes look like they'll be assets to this team. Shareef and KT were thankfully out of sight and out of mind. The whole Mike Bibby limbo has been resolved. So all in all, my overall impression is slightly positive. I really would have liked a better draft pick but it's hard to fault the guys for playing hard. They did what they were supposed to do out there.
My only real concerns are -- (a) I don't think Beno is enough of a playmaker to be penciled in as the starting PG going forward (b) Our frontline is still really weak with Mikki and Brad most likely gone in two years and Shelden Williams looking overmatched. We really need some size and toughness in there. (c) Even with an emphasis on defense, we're still worst in the league. Martin's got to figure something out on defense because he's going to be around for a long time.
My only real concerns are -- (a) I don't think Beno is enough of a playmaker to be penciled in as the starting PG going forward (b) Our frontline is still really weak with Mikki and Brad most likely gone in two years and Shelden Williams looking overmatched. We really need some size and toughness in there. (c) Even with an emphasis on defense, we're still worst in the league. Martin's got to figure something out on defense because he's going to be around for a long time.
I agree with just about that entire list, although I might have gone D+, rather than D-, were it an option.
I'll add a plus, too: fun to watch on nights when Beno and other youngsters played a bigger role in the game than Ron did.
As one of the resident stat geeks, I'll let some trends show a little more of what's on my mind.
These are some of our rankings over the last several years.
-------------------03-04---------04-05--------05-06--------06-07-------07-08
assists/gm-----1st-------------1st-----------5th----------22nd---------28th
TO/gm-----------9th-------------4th----------21st---------12th----------29th
A/TO ratio------1st-------------1st-----------5th----------20th----------30th
pt differential--5th-------------9th----------12th---------19th----------20th
opp 3pt %-----10th-----------15th---------10th---------23rd-----------25th
Rebounding and shotblocking stats are quite bad, but those are long-term constants; before we won games despite them because we were so strong in other areas -- which we aren't now. Our shooting numbers, whether FG%, 3%, or FT%, have declined from excellent to merely fair, but have recovered slightly from a sharp drop under Muss.
My tentative conclusions are that, while our shortage of defensive players makes the zone seem tempting, it is making our perimeter D very weak, and our lack of a defensive big makes it ineffective at any range. Ball hogging and iso are doing an excellent job of killing our ball movement, and our offense with it. The steady decline in our point differential just shows that you can't get better when both your offense and defense are slipping.
Looking at all of that, I think a D is pretty fair. It beats last year's F.
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I chose B- here's why:
Pros-Kevin improved noticeably, maybe not superstar status but he became a more reliable scorer. Hawes should some improvement and skills when he got minutes so instead of making me hate the pick, I actually like it now. Bibby was traded, and even though we didn't get the greatest package for him it was nice to have that finally resolved because it seemed very awkward the last year(going back to 06-07) he was here. Artest stayed out of trouble(even though he still has controversy around him, atleast he didn't do anything bad or say he's retiring this time). Cisco showed a lot of growth IMO, and has a future here as a 30 MPG player IMO(whether that's backing up Ron and Kevin or starting besides Kevin I dunno). Beno was better at "being a PG" than Bibby, even though he wasn't exactly Nash the guy showed that he can play. It was nice to watch a real PG and even though I'm not convinced he's THE GUY, he showed some skills he might be able to build on and is worth re-signing IMO. Douby wasn't very good until the last week or 2 but atleast he finally showed something(when he was finally able to play). Kenny and Shareef were basically not even seen or heard from. Miller raised his value and had a bounceback year. Reggie did a pretty good job IMO.
Cons: Mikki is still our starting PF, which is not too much of an improvement over Kenny/Reef. We still need a PF. We might still need a PG and insurance there wouldn't hurt. We still need to get better at team ball. We still need to improve our D, and a lot of that is about improving holes on D. We still don't have enough young players. I dunno.
Pros-Kevin improved noticeably, maybe not superstar status but he became a more reliable scorer. Hawes should some improvement and skills when he got minutes so instead of making me hate the pick, I actually like it now. Bibby was traded, and even though we didn't get the greatest package for him it was nice to have that finally resolved because it seemed very awkward the last year(going back to 06-07) he was here. Artest stayed out of trouble(even though he still has controversy around him, atleast he didn't do anything bad or say he's retiring this time). Cisco showed a lot of growth IMO, and has a future here as a 30 MPG player IMO(whether that's backing up Ron and Kevin or starting besides Kevin I dunno). Beno was better at "being a PG" than Bibby, even though he wasn't exactly Nash the guy showed that he can play. It was nice to watch a real PG and even though I'm not convinced he's THE GUY, he showed some skills he might be able to build on and is worth re-signing IMO. Douby wasn't very good until the last week or 2 but atleast he finally showed something(when he was finally able to play). Kenny and Shareef were basically not even seen or heard from. Miller raised his value and had a bounceback year. Reggie did a pretty good job IMO.
Cons: Mikki is still our starting PF, which is not too much of an improvement over Kenny/Reef. We still need a PF. We might still need a PG and insurance there wouldn't hurt. We still need to get better at team ball. We still need to improve our D, and a lot of that is about improving holes on D. We still don't have enough young players. I dunno.
tyrant
Starter
**Cracks nuckles**
Now, this season has been nothing less than a disaster. We have enough underachievers to start a dodgeball team. Last years grade was an F and its an F this year because nothing from last year has been corrected. We were able to produce with a coach that got us 5 more victories in a more dominant western conference. Kudos to him. But we didn't find a diamond in the land mine. We found an onion ring in the order of fries. And as I said before we need a more experienced coach. I am a patriot of the team but its very sickening not knowing which team will show up during game nights. Production from salmons has gone from something to nothing. And I blame the coach for not communicating with these players. I also blame him for starting moore and not giving spencer and quincy enough minutes. And if I can't find clean socks 2morrow morning I will also blame him for that
Now, this season has been nothing less than a disaster. We have enough underachievers to start a dodgeball team. Last years grade was an F and its an F this year because nothing from last year has been corrected. We were able to produce with a coach that got us 5 more victories in a more dominant western conference. Kudos to him. But we didn't find a diamond in the land mine. We found an onion ring in the order of fries. And as I said before we need a more experienced coach. I am a patriot of the team but its very sickening not knowing which team will show up during game nights. Production from salmons has gone from something to nothing. And I blame the coach for not communicating with these players. I also blame him for starting moore and not giving spencer and quincy enough minutes. And if I can't find clean socks 2morrow morning I will also blame him for that
Entity
Hall of Famer
I'll go with the C+ Rather than blame Theus I will give him credit. Things Muss had that Reggie didn't. Muss had Bibby for the whole year. Theus had no pg for the first 3 weeks and had to work in Beno on the fly with no preseason then Beno misses 12 games himself. Muss had Martin for 80 games Theus had Martin for 61 games. Muss had Artest for 70 games and Theus had him for 57. Muss had SAR and Corlis (whom while not superstars are better than Moore.) Theus well he had Moore. The lone spot where Theus has the advantage was Miller who averaged a whoping 4pts 3reb more than last year with 11 more games played.
Now with all that said and all the injurys and lack of a consistent lineup and depth because of them and the fact that all the stats that showed we were down in all catagories yet we still won 5 more games than with Muss. Now if that don't exemplify that Theus is a good coach then I don't know what does. All this done in a Western conference that is the best it has ever been.
Here is something to help you get through TDOS. Imagine Theus with a little more experience a training camp ready Beno and Hawes. A starting lineup that each player plays at least 75 games and the 3 draft picks and moves that could and should be made to better the team. I believe we can only go up from here. I don't forsee taking a step back.
With the EXACT same team next year and all HEALTHY we could get 42-45 wins. With some good moves this offseason and smart picks it can only go up.
Now with all that said and all the injurys and lack of a consistent lineup and depth because of them and the fact that all the stats that showed we were down in all catagories yet we still won 5 more games than with Muss. Now if that don't exemplify that Theus is a good coach then I don't know what does. All this done in a Western conference that is the best it has ever been.
Here is something to help you get through TDOS. Imagine Theus with a little more experience a training camp ready Beno and Hawes. A starting lineup that each player plays at least 75 games and the 3 draft picks and moves that could and should be made to better the team. I believe we can only go up from here. I don't forsee taking a step back.
With the EXACT same team next year and all HEALTHY we could get 42-45 wins. With some good moves this offseason and smart picks it can only go up.
C-
I think I am being overly generous. We treaded water, had a losing record, will get a lousy draft pick and likely can look forward to more of the same next year.
I think I am being overly generous. We treaded water, had a losing record, will get a lousy draft pick and likely can look forward to more of the same next year.
SacTownKid
Hall of Famer
In a lot of ways it was a lot of wasted time. A lot of young players got stuffed on the bench most of the year. The season is meaningless if we go into next season mostly unchanged.
C-
C-
Heuge
Starter
Went with a D. (only slightly better then completely sucking)
Good:
1) No muss no more.
2) Jerry seems to have gotten rid of Kevin's clone of a nickname in K-mart
Good with a hint of blech:
We traded Bibby (Petrie does have a pulse, but did he get anything of worth).
Theus might be a good coach, however he might drive his players nuts.
Spencer seems to be a decent pick, but I'm not sold on the extent of his upside being futher then a weak starting center on a middle of the pack playoff team.
Cisco- can be good, but can be so stupid
Bad:
We suck and look to be sucking for quite awhile. Shaq is being proved right when he said we would be back to expansionville without C-Webb.
Ron, Brad, Mikki, K9 are still here...
Lakers dont suck and won't suck for awhile.
Good:
1) No muss no more.
2) Jerry seems to have gotten rid of Kevin's clone of a nickname in K-mart
Good with a hint of blech:
We traded Bibby (Petrie does have a pulse, but did he get anything of worth).
Theus might be a good coach, however he might drive his players nuts.
Spencer seems to be a decent pick, but I'm not sold on the extent of his upside being futher then a weak starting center on a middle of the pack playoff team.
Cisco- can be good, but can be so stupid
Bad:
We suck and look to be sucking for quite awhile. Shaq is being proved right when he said we would be back to expansionville without C-Webb.
Ron, Brad, Mikki, K9 are still here...
Lakers dont suck and won't suck for awhile.
CruzDude
Senior Member sharing a brew with bajaden
I gave a B-. Here's why:
minus
worst passing/assist team in the NBA
too much dribbling, not enough movement without the ball
nearly worst defensive team in the NBA
RonRon trying to take over games (it almost never worked)
Coach Reggie's ego
big time injuries
plus
Kevin Martin, Beno, Cisco, Hawes, Miller playing at an all-star level
RonRon (when he played as part of team), Douby may finally have turned the corner, Coach Reggie looks like he can turn the Kings into a winner.
neutral
Mikki; hustles but has terrible hands, rebounds but fouls way too much, can be consistent 10/10 but then can disappear.
jury still out
Shelden Williams, will SAR be able to come back and contribute big time
minus
worst passing/assist team in the NBA
too much dribbling, not enough movement without the ball
nearly worst defensive team in the NBA
RonRon trying to take over games (it almost never worked)
Coach Reggie's ego
big time injuries
plus
Kevin Martin, Beno, Cisco, Hawes, Miller playing at an all-star level
RonRon (when he played as part of team), Douby may finally have turned the corner, Coach Reggie looks like he can turn the Kings into a winner.
neutral
Mikki; hustles but has terrible hands, rebounds but fouls way too much, can be consistent 10/10 but then can disappear.
jury still out
Shelden Williams, will SAR be able to come back and contribute big time
jimbodan
Bench
D
We needed to acquire draft picks and young players with real potential. We needed to give what young talent we had minutes. We also needed to get rid of aging veterans with large contracts. We also needed to secure a good 1st round pick for ourselves in order to have a good chance at a star.
We more or less failed on all accounts. Only positives were more minutes for Hawes at the very end of the season (should have been getting those minutes after he first got healthy), getting Sheldon (although whether he is actually any good remains to be seen), and getting rid of Bibby (We should have got more for him and gotten rid of other veterans). We failed epically to get ourselves in a position for a good draft pick this year unless we get extremely lucky in the lottery. Overall this year was a failure.
We needed to acquire draft picks and young players with real potential. We needed to give what young talent we had minutes. We also needed to get rid of aging veterans with large contracts. We also needed to secure a good 1st round pick for ourselves in order to have a good chance at a star.
We more or less failed on all accounts. Only positives were more minutes for Hawes at the very end of the season (should have been getting those minutes after he first got healthy), getting Sheldon (although whether he is actually any good remains to be seen), and getting rid of Bibby (We should have got more for him and gotten rid of other veterans). We failed epically to get ourselves in a position for a good draft pick this year unless we get extremely lucky in the lottery. Overall this year was a failure.
Dime Dropper
All-Star
Agree with every point in this post. I gave it a D. I hate being mediocre. We're putting off the decline for as long as possible. Eventually, it will have to happen. And I can see a lot of shocked faces around here when it actually does.
Putting off the decline? Are you kidding?
We STARTED the decline on Feb. 23, 2005. While we're stilling cleaning up the rubble that all pretty much spread from that one trade (including subsequent attempts to replace the unreplaceable), this season at least ended on a note of promise.
The idea that it could all be done in one year was fairly common around here but not very realistic. The bottom line for the Maloofs is they had to try to keep things interesting enough to bring in fans while trying to rebuild the team. With Bibby's trade, we did acquire some expiring contracts and we moved the second largest contract we had on the books. And we'll do more next year. It's not an over-night process. What looks good on paper (or a monitor screen) isn't always possible in the real world.
The Maloofs are, and quite rightly, going to be looking/listening to the fans who actually spend the money and attend the games. The season ticket holders, for example, have been invited for a couple of events this season and their feedback was solicited.
And, before I'm accused of anything, that's not a dig on anyone who isn't able to attend the games, chooses not to attend, etc. It's a fact of economic life. If you're a merchant, you listen to your loyal customers first.
We STARTED the decline on Feb. 23, 2005. While we're stilling cleaning up the rubble that all pretty much spread from that one trade (including subsequent attempts to replace the unreplaceable), this season at least ended on a note of promise.
The idea that it could all be done in one year was fairly common around here but not very realistic. The bottom line for the Maloofs is they had to try to keep things interesting enough to bring in fans while trying to rebuild the team. With Bibby's trade, we did acquire some expiring contracts and we moved the second largest contract we had on the books. And we'll do more next year. It's not an over-night process. What looks good on paper (or a monitor screen) isn't always possible in the real world.
The Maloofs are, and quite rightly, going to be looking/listening to the fans who actually spend the money and attend the games. The season ticket holders, for example, have been invited for a couple of events this season and their feedback was solicited.
And, before I'm accused of anything, that's not a dig on anyone who isn't able to attend the games, chooses not to attend, etc. It's a fact of economic life. If you're a merchant, you listen to your loyal customers first.
LA King Fan II
Bench
D-
If you aren't even competing for the playoffs you are "having difficulty".
Horrible mistake to keep garcia, martin, salmons & artest to the bitter end. Obvious overload and IMO any one of them should have been considered in a trade to either help at a weaker position or obtain a better draft pick.
D- grade as in having much difficulty or as Johnny Boy in Mean Streets would say, "DD as in Disappointed Dunskies!"
From the cover of Sports Illustrated for their grand "style" of basketball they played, they have become a Hawks clone with zero appreciable style on the court. Too bad because they were awfully fun to watch for anyone who liked basketball not just locals in the same zip code.
If you aren't even competing for the playoffs you are "having difficulty".
Horrible mistake to keep garcia, martin, salmons & artest to the bitter end. Obvious overload and IMO any one of them should have been considered in a trade to either help at a weaker position or obtain a better draft pick.
D- grade as in having much difficulty or as Johnny Boy in Mean Streets would say, "DD as in Disappointed Dunskies!"
From the cover of Sports Illustrated for their grand "style" of basketball they played, they have become a Hawks clone with zero appreciable style on the court. Too bad because they were awfully fun to watch for anyone who liked basketball not just locals in the same zip code.
And sometimes it's a geographic fact of life; I can afford season tickets, but I'm not moving three thousand miles away from my entire life, just to watch the Kings in person. I don't love the team anywhere near to that much...
Still not sure how what you spend has to do with your degree of loyalty, though...
Heuge
Starter
What exactly was all that promising about our seasons end?
creAtivetfh
Starter
Kevin Martin, top 6 scorer, extremely efficient
Spencer Hawes, gifted post player who just needs to develop more strength
Cisco, becoming the player we all thought he'd be, dynamic and clutch
Brad Miller, 9.5 boards/game, enough said
Mikki Moore, can scream loud enough that people who aren't even watching the game can hear.
Kenny Thomas, didn't play a minute after Jan. 1st
We've had our first season of improvement since 2001.
just to name a few
GoGoGadget
All-Star
I've seen this brought up as a positive a few times, and I'm assuming it's done with tongue firmly in cheek, but I still don't get it. Having that big of a contract being completely wasted, especially since it's all going to one of those flexible pieces we picked up in exchange for the closest thing to a superstar this franchise has ever had, is not particularly positive to me even in jest.
Since we seem unable to trade him, him not getting time is the next best thing.
And Thomas played four minutes and twenty-three seconds after January 1st... On January 2nd. I believe I had that one...
And Thomas played four minutes and twenty-three seconds after January 1st... On January 2nd. I believe I had that one...
Heuge
Starter
I must be in such a bad mood today...Kevin Martin, top 6 scorer, extremely efficient
Spencer Hawes, gifted post player who just needs to develop more strength
Cisco, becoming the player we all thought he'd be, dynamic and clutch
Brad Miller, 9.5 boards/game, enough said
Mikki Moore, can scream loud enough that people who aren't even watching the game can hear.
Kenny Thomas, didn't play a minute after Jan. 1st
We've had our first season of improvement since 2001.
just to name a few
Martin, showed little improvement over last season. He most needed to improve defensively and did not.
Hawes- seems to have limited upside. I get CLipper envy (ick) watching Al thorton play.
Cisco is enigmatic
Brad- the is so much more to be said after his 9.5 bourds
Moore was as aweful of a signing as I thought itwas at the time
KT- is alot of salary playing no time. And he reminds me of how aweful Petrie last few moves have been.
Kill-joying done...
kupman
Starter
It could be viewed as a positive in that the Kings have made it very clear to K-9 that he does not have any future playing time here. This could increase the chances of a buy-out, I think.
K-9 and the Kings could reach an agreement (this summer) that the Kings will finish paying a portion of his remaining contract so that he can test the market. It is a viable option for K-9 if he wants to still play and wants to see if there is any team that will hire him. Correct me if I am wrong, but this would free some of K-9's money for us (the amount to be determined though negotiations). I think it would be the same thing as the 76ers buying-out the remaining 2 years of CWebbs contract for 25 million.
kupman
Starter
Kepp in mind that Thornton is about 5 years older than Hawes. A more fair comprison would be what Thornton did this year relative to what Hawes will be doing 4-5 years from now....we will have to wait and see.
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