Goal of this season - 8 seed or development

andjel · Feb 1, 2017

Rallying cry is of course "playoff", but based on Joergers stated priority (culture) he was aware that he might not make it this year. Just do not tell kids.

If we can not reach the playoff, getting in the bottom 10 is the next reasonable goal which would require conceding battle to win the war. Decision for mid March probably.

Btw, we ARE rebuilding (3 + 1 rookies say so), just more traditional way instead of Hinkie approach.

King Baller · Feb 1, 2017

steelevt said:

So is the analogy of "living in a yurt" = a season under Coach Karl?

King Baller · Feb 1, 2017

206Fan said:

We desperately need our draft pick this year. The Kings seriously need a franchise PG. Point me to one that we can realistically get that doesn't involve the draft? Almost every elite team has a PG. Keeping the draft pick is the best option going forward.

If the Kings had at least 1 above average player next to Cousins, then I'd probably lean towards playoffs. But guess what? We don't. Collison is a backup PG on most teams. Temple is a bench SG. Afflalo is a bench SG.

Its the Law Son! Yep Ty Lawson is an above average player.

dude12 · Feb 1, 2017

Playoffs as of right now.

Joshoua · Feb 1, 2017

Mind boggling that this is even a debate. April 1st if we are within 5 games of 8 spot we will loose our pick if we are over 5 games back we will loose all 6 April games and get the 10 pick. It's that simple it's way to early for this, DMC will get snaps on April. The way the 8th spot is in the west this year we'd still be able to either grab that or loose out in April and get our pick.

King Baller · Feb 1, 2017

Bricklayer said:

Reading is Fundamental!

That is what has been promised. That is what the moves are about. That is what the culture change is about. That is what DeMarcus is signing onto. Not a rebuild. Not a kindergarten. Not "The Process". He's signing back with a coach and GM and even owner not accustomed to losing who have told him he gets to win if he stays. Not when he's 30. Not when the kids discover they have hair down there. But soon. Next season I would imagine. And they're going to chase it this season. because chasing it is culture training for the whole organization jut like getting your ass whooped in a footrace is training for when you finally pull ahead in the next one.

People need to get this through their heads:

We don't quit.
We don't concede defeat.
We compete every game (or nearly).

These are essential principles and the culture change envisioned. Its at least as important as one more player. And it doesn't easily admit kids or development and certainly not tanking. WE DON'T CONCEDE DEFEAT. Joerger is determined to drum that into the franchise until it is second nature. Until we are Grindhouse West. Until we fight, because that's just what the Kings do. When that goal is accomplished, the winning wlil follow.

dude12 · Feb 1, 2017

Getting the experience to actually compete for the 8th spot is part of the development for the team and org. The young guys are developing.

206Fan · Feb 1, 2017

CelticsFan said:

A while ago, someone described it as "Stockholm Syndrome".

The Kings and Vlade get more excuses from fans as any FO, but can you blame us? False hope is better than realizing that you have an extremely incompetent owner with an under qualified GM at helm. Some fans still continue to ignore how bad the Stauskas trade was, and a few even imply that the Kings somehow "won" that trade. No one should be satisfied with this team. I remember someone saying that a losing game was the Kings, "learning to win games". Justifications are funny. If you read some of the threads, there are a lot of fans who think the Kings are better without Rudy Gay.... then when we lost a few times, turn right around and say, "well, we were missing our 2nd best player, so it's not that bad."

Kings are moving towards 32 wins this season, but somehow, we're supposed to be improving? The FO, and Kings put themselves in this position. In this position where tanking to keep our pick is necessary for our future. Maybe if Vlade was able to sign at least 1 big FA, we'd be having an entirely different conversation right now. But we couldn't sign anyone big. Gave Afflalo 12mill, Tolliver 8mil, and Barnes 6mil. That's 26million that could've gone towards a potential star player.

New Era · Feb 1, 2017

Bricklayer said:

We have lost 17 games by 8 or more points this year. That's 35% of the games we've played this year where you can argue we haven't competed. We might have competed for a couple of quarters in those games but, at the end of the day, we are simply a losing team.

Compare that to the Nuggets, who we aspire to be someday sitting in the 8th seed currently. They have only lost 12 games, or 25% of their games by 8 or more.

arusinov · Feb 1, 2017

Ron said:

I would like to beleive you're right, but it seems Casspi is out for another week (at least until Feb 6 according to cbssports)

Kingster · Feb 1, 2017

Bricklayer said:

Then he's not going to be a Sacramento King in the future.

Kingster · Feb 1, 2017

CelticsFan said:

I think this fan base needs a culture change. I have never seen such a losing organization fanbase have so many excuses for a losing team. This team hasn't seen the playoffs in 10 years and are on track for another losing season. This team is one of the worst in the league yet there are people who still want to play the washed up vets over the young guys.

The NBA is a business. If your goal is to reach the playoffs and that doesn't happen you don't give everyone on the team a trophy because they "played hard". Let's hold people accountable. Let's demand excellence. We shouldn't be happy we signed a bunch of aging vets. We shouldn't be happy our "stud" offseason signing in Temple is a bench role player on any other team.

Mostly everyone on this site is loyal to this team. Just because we're loyal doesn't mean we have to make excuses for this team. Some in the fanbase are now judging the season on if the team plays hard not wins and losses. Can anyone name a team in the NBA that doesn't play hard or fight until the end? The Nets, Wolves, 76er's, Sun's? Do any of those teams not play hard? Measuring this season success based on if they play hard or not is just giving this franchise more excuses.

I'd give this post 10 "likes" if I could.

andjel · Feb 1, 2017

CelticsFan said:

I think this fan base needs a culture change. I have never seen such a losing organization fanbase have so many excuses for a losing team. This team hasn't seen the playoffs in 10 years and are on track for another losing season. This team is one of the worst in the league yet there are people who still want to play the washed up vets over the young guys.

The NBA is a business. If your goal is to reach the playoffs and that doesn't happen you don't give everyone on the team a trophy because they "played hard". Let's hold people accountable. Let's demand excellence. We shouldn't be happy we signed a bunch of aging vets. We shouldn't be happy our "stud" offseason signing in Temple is a bench role player on any other team.

Mostly everyone on this site is loyal to this team. Just because we're loyal doesn't mean we have to make excuses for this team. Some in the fanbase are now judging the season on if the team plays hard not wins and losses. Can anyone name a team in the NBA that doesn't play hard or fight until the end? The Nets, Wolves, 76er's, Sun's? Do any of those teams not play hard? Measuring this season success based on if they play hard or not is just giving this franchise more excuses.

Kings after January in 2016, 2015, 2014, 2013...

Kingster · Feb 1, 2017

The playoffs were never a realistic goal for this team. You just had to look at the guard lineup to know that, especially in a guard driven 3-point-line league and a western conference loaded with great guards. So, sure, you can have the goal of going to playoffs now, but that's as realistic a goal as winning the NBA championship. Unfortunately, Divac thought he could go to the playoffs with this team; he thought he could build it around Cousins and bunch of mediocre vets, most of whom aren't going to be here next year, all the while mortgage future picks for the opportunity. Just like he thought he could do the same thing last year.

When I think of this team now I can't help thinking of Memphis during the Pau Gasol era, in which they actually did get to .550 and they got to the playoffs a couple of times. And what was their record in both playoff series? 0-4. Swept. At which point, they realized they were at a dead end. That's when they "blew it up." . That's where this team is right now. What is Vlade going to do next year - bring in another cast of mediocre vets to do a little better than this cast of mediocre vets or last year's cast of mediocre vets?

kupman · Feb 1, 2017

Personally, if we get into the playoffs with 37 wins I do not see that as progress. I see it as dumb luck. If we get in with at least a .500 record, then I would be fine with the vets leading us into the playoffs. However, I do not see that happening.

Ron · Feb 1, 2017

206Fan said:

Kings are moving towards a 37-41 wins' season (!!) and into the 8th or maybe even 7th (!!) playoff spot.

There - I said it. Meet me on April for a crow-eating festival
(You get to be the feasting party).

"False hope"?
How about "false despair"?
Or "premature defeatism"?
Kings ARE playing WAY better than at the beginning of the season.
They WILL play better yet by the week, in each of the remaining weeks.

And don't come jumping on the bandwagon when they do.
We need to tell SOMEONE "we told you so"...

twslam07 · Feb 1, 2017

Ron said:

Kings are moving towards a 37-41 wins' season (!!) and into the 8th or maybe even 7th (!!) playoff spot.

There - I said it. Meet me on April for a crow-eating festival
(You get to be the feasting party).

"False hope"?
How about "false despair"?
Or "premature defeatism"?
Kings ARE playing WAY better than at the beginning of the season.
They WILL play better yet by the week, in each of the remaining weeks.

And don't come jumping on the bandwagon when they do.
We need to tell SOMEONE "we told you so"...

Why wouldn't other teams also be getting better by the week?

andjel · Feb 1, 2017

twslam07 said:

because they did not have coach change and more than a half team change this off season, the expectation and scale of their improvement is smaller than for Kings.

Semi · Feb 1, 2017

Ron said:

The Kings don't even win 39% of their games and if they maintain their current winning % they are on pace to win just 32 games and that was WITH temple AND Gay for the majority of the games this season. So you're telling me that even though we have gone through more than half the season and have figured out how to put together 2 or more wins in a row just 4 times this season and have 2 key players hurt, that we are all of a sudden going to play .667 ball the rest of the way out? LOL come on man. You're trolling right? You know when the last time this team was playing .667 ball? When they were 2-1. They lost the next game to go to .500. The highest win % the Kings have gotten to since then was .451 right after they had their only 4 game winning streak of the season. Since that point they have proceeded to go 5-13 for .277. They are literally playing their worst ball of the season over the last 18 games. Looking at the last 33 games of the season, 15 of those meetings are against teams with winning records, and 24 of those meetings are against teams with better records than the Kings. You're talking about false despair? What about realistic expectations? I would love to see this team in the playoffs finally again but this certainly isn't the season we are going to be seeing it.

Bricklayer · Feb 1, 2017

KingsFanGER said:

Those teams are doing much the same thing we are. They are going out and playing their best guys at any one time. Jokic doesn't get time because he's young...he gets time because he's good. Lillard and McCollum are about the same age as Cuz. They don't run Vonleh big minutes because hey, kid. The Timberwolves best guys ARE their kids. Towns and Wiggins and LaVine get minutes because they are the best guys on the team, not because they are young.

It just so happens the best guys on our team\ are a few years older, but this "in decline" nonsense is just a plank. The only guy beyond his late prime is Matt Barnes. All of our other guys are pretty much grouped between 26-30 (maybe somebody turned 31 during the season).

The problem here is the fans. And I mean that. I understand your frustration, but now you are advocating things that no longer make sense. We blew our rebuild. We blew our opportunity to get more prize youth. We took Jimmer instead of Kawhi. We took TRob instead of Lillard. We took Ben instead of Giannis. We were pathetic and blew chance after chance to pair Cousins with another star. But now people have developed tunnel vision where they are frustrated and just so determined to keep on doing it and doing it and doing it until damnit it finally works! Except time marches on. If Cuz was a robot who never aged and had nothing better to do then maybe. If Joerger would survive and be willing to endure season after season of losses, if Vlade wouldn't be canned...and if wishes were horses. But that's not the way it works. We are on the same schedule as every other team in our franchise player's life cycle, we just drew less young talent along the way. So instead we have scrambled together a motley crew of scrappy short term vets and will be scrambling for years to add the right guys in FA and via trade. Its just the way it has to be now because Cousins is here now and ready, and needing, to win. And Joerger is here now and ready, and needing to win. And the twitchy owner will **** everything up again in a hurry if we don't, and stat. And so the last 5 years are just a write off, and we dig in and make it work. We drew a crap hand, it doesn't mean you just fold and start over.

twslam07 · Feb 1, 2017

Bricklayer said:

Portland isn't in danger of losing their pick altogether so it's a poor comparison on your part. If it didn't convey to the Bulls, then 10 vs. 11-13 is not much of a difference in talent. But top 10 vs. nothing? That's where the talent bleeding part begins to occur.

You also fail to recognize the pick next year as an asset and instead you recognize it as a young kid. That's a huge oversight on your side. We don't have to keep the kid.
We can use it in a trade (which is one of the methods you suggested for how we could get better) to bring in talent that is ready to help us now. It's not always about getting youth and developing them (although we'll need to do that to have any shot at being a great team). It's about talent & asset management. Losing the pick altogether would hurt us more than help.

Ron · Feb 1, 2017

twslam07 said:

Some of them are/will.
The Wizards and Heat are getting there already.

Other teams will drop/are dropping, like the Hornets, Bucks and I believe OKC and Memphis too.

I'm quite confident we're in the former (soaring) group.
Give it 2-3 weeks and then tell me what you think of my perception.

VF21 · Feb 1, 2017

CelticsFan said:

Your name belies your argument.

I'll make excuses if I think people are being unfair or not considering all the factors. I'll make excuses because I've been here through all the lean years, the few good years and the return to mediocrity (and worse).

Nobody is talking about participation trophies.

If you cannot see the chemistry building among our players and the difference between this team and the one pre-Rondo (for example) maybe it's because you weren't around until we acquired Rajon. You have no idea what we've lived through the past decade - nor would I expect you to.

If this sounds harsh, I'm sorry but I don't think you've been around long enough to lecture us about our fanbase.

Bricklayer · Feb 1, 2017

New Era said:

Another dishonest post.

There have been maybe 6-8 games all year, the entire year, where we have not been competitive. Tops.

In every other game we have made runs against teams, no matter how good, into the late game. We have played with them right up until our talent maxed us out. your "17 game" whatever is a load of hooey, and the worst part is you know it too. A few examples of the B.S.:

11/01 MIA -- Boogie is called for an offensive foul to foul out in the final seconds of regulation, we go to OT without him, on the second night of back to back on the road, and lose the OT by 8. Truly non-competitive.
12/04 NYK -- we enter the 4th down 6, cut the lead to as little as 2 midway through the quarter, and its a still a 5pt game with 23 seconds to go before the Knicks hit their FTs as we play the FT game. Truly uncompetitive.
12/10 UTH -- its a 2pt game going into the 4th, and a 3pt game with 10:30 to go, before we collapse down the stretch on the 2nd night of a back to back
01/08 GSW -- its the Golden State Warriors. An automatic schedule loss if ever there was one. yet we are only down 10 going into the 4th quarter, and again, we never let them get away. Halfway through the quarter, its 9. With 3:50 to go Boogie goes to the line and makes it 8. The Warriors have to play Steph, Durant, Green and Klay to the final buzzer.
01/13 CLE -- we make a run at the defending champs and cut the lead to 6 with 9:35 to go in the game. They push it back out to 10 but never get away. LeBron, Love, Irving have to play to the end to secure the win and do not leave the game until there is 46 seconds to go.

P.S. Oh and BTW Denver is another team noteworthy for its Malone-inspired scrap. They fight, we fight, and the coaches deserve a lot of credit for it.

CelticsFan · Feb 1, 2017

VF21 said:

No worries it's not too harsh. The good news is by the end of the year one half of this fan base will be right. The goal is/was to make the playoffs, some think this team is a real contender some don't. I promise I won't be mad if I'm wrong and I won't be afraid to admit it.

andjel · Feb 1, 2017

CelticsFan said:

Those that were buying playoff as a number one goal from Vlade's pep talk might be disappointed.
Those who listened to Joerger that system/stability is the main goal and playofff secondary should be satisfied.

Can you please point out any post that claimed Kings are contender. I think contender means deep playoff team at the least, and cannot recall anyone claiming that.

CelticsFan · Feb 1, 2017

andjel said:

Those that were buying playoff as a number one goal from Vlade's pep talk might be disappointed.
Those who listened to Joerger that system/stability is the main goal and playofff secondary should be satisfied.

Can you please point out any post that claimed Kings are contender. I think contender means deep playoff team at the least, and cannot recall anyone claiming that.

You got me

Kingsfan23 · Feb 1, 2017

Part of me just wants the youth to play because these vets are so uninspiring.. who is trying to see Afflalo, Tolliver, Barnes etc? They don't help win, and they shouldn't be rewarded with playing time for not getting it done here IMO

NewArena · Feb 1, 2017

I dont see how we can't and aren't doing both. WCS and Richardson are the only youth worth writing home about anyway. Not sure why everyone is acting like
we have Karl Anthony Towns sitting on the bench. What youth? please.

Kingsfan23 · Feb 1, 2017

NewArena said:

As far as I'm concerned Skal may be the most talented. He was a consensus top two freshman recruit and prospect for much of last year for a reason. Maybe Papa could get some reps down the stretch, but might not be ready, we will see

Goal of this season - 8 seed or development

Bench

All-Star

All-Star

Hall of Famer

All-Star

All-Star

Hall of Famer

All-Star

Starter

G-League

Hall of Famer

Hall of Famer

Bench

Hall of Famer

Starter

Starter

All-Star

Bench

Bench

Don't Make Me Use The Bat

All-Star

Starter

Super Moderator Emeritus

Don't Make Me Use The Bat

Bench

Bench

Bench

All-Star

All-Star

All-Star