Gasol as a King?

[Smills91]

At this stage, that would be a significant improvement, right?



I recall hearing the same when the Kings traded J-Will for Bibby. I think most of us would do that trade again. And, as you say, it's about the team. As bad as the Kings are, they're not nearly as screwed up, from ownership down, as Memphis seems to be.



And yet, Stephen Jackson -- Mr. Shots Fired Outside the Strip Club a Year After the Brawl in Detroit -- was just traded, which just goes to show that anything can happen.



I disagree, because I suffered through a decade's worth of successive lottery picks who didn't make a difference: Joe Kleine, Harold Pressley, Pervis Ellison, ad nauseum. I have little faith in the draft as being the main component of fixing a team. Sure, drafting a Durant or Oden would be great. But the odds of A) getting a top-three pick combined with the odds of B) the player you pick emerging as a superstar are fairly long.

That's why I believe if you have the opportunity to snag a relatively young, proven star -- whether it's Gasol or someone else -- you do it.

As for developing the young guys, sure. I'm encouraged that Garcia is getting a bit more run. I'd like to see whether Ronnie Price can replicate his early season throw-down over Boozer. The sight of Justin Williams actually challenging shots is heartening. But with the exception of Martin, who's been a revelation, are any of those guys potential franchise cornerstones? If they are, a lot of smart people in the NBA made major mistakes. More likely, they're guys who will contribute but never make or break a team.



That strikes me as the ever-popular "five-year plan" that tends to get GMs and coaches fired while raising the blood pressure of fans and owners.

I am in 100% agreement with this post. Thank you for saving me the time of typing that all out.

 

[thedofd]

I believe that trading away the future for a player like Gasol shall be a mistake. Guess, we can agree to disagree on this.

You have insulted my honor, Sir. I demand satisfaction. Custom demands that we shoot best of 10 free throws at dawn to determine the outcome of this debate.

 

[thedofd]

Unless some of our vets start living up to their large contracts, we aren't going anywhere for the next 2 years.

By the way, we can agree to agree on that statement.

 

[PBNJ31]

ok, so, what's the trade? I don't completely disagree with you, but who are you trading with Martin to get Gasol? It's fine to talk about these things in abstract, but what are we actually talking about here? How are you going to construct a trade so there is still room for this team to grow when you're done?

Just an idea.

Miller, Hart and Martin would work for Gasol.

 

[Gary]

For a guy like Gasol we would have to get rid of Artest. I just don't see them co-existing. They both need the ball, and frankly, I would rather Gasol have the ball than Artest...

If we could send something like;

Artest, Bibby to Memphis for Gasol, and Stoudamire I would o it in a heart beat.

Stoudamire would be a short term point guard, and Gasol would definitely be here for the long term. We would then use our draft pick to get a big guy to replace Miller in the coming years.. Try and get PG in the off season, or have someone draft late in the 1st round, and trade him to us. But Gasol would take us back to the promise land, and put a face ont this franchise again.

 

[thedofd]

Gasol would take us back to the promise land, and put a face ont this franchise again.

I don't know if he's a promised-land type of guy (who is?), but I think he'd clearly be the team's best player regardless of who was traded for him -- Miller, Bibby, Artest, Martin or some combination thereof -- and definitely become the "face" of the franchise for the next five years.

 

[sidney]

Anyone else thing that Petrie's comment about 'short cutting the transition if it works out' is referring to an attempt to get Pau?

The fact that the Kings made a run at Iverson and now there is a big man star on the market that could fill the biggest weakness of this team...I dunno...speculation is fun

 

[Big Cuz 15]

Martin is good, but lets be realistic here..2 guards are MUCH easier to come by in the NBA than legit POST players. Pau gasol is PROVEN and will not need ANY time to develop his game. Ron/Mike/Brad are ALL very cabale 2 and 3rd wheels on this club. I'd rather trade Martin(a 2 guard who is much more easily replaced..I mean Garcia/Salmons would take the bulk of his minutes...I like them more than Thomas/SAR.

Also, the Kings will be WORST case scenario a #7 pick, to perhaps #16-17 if they go on a run similar to last year.

I'm eyeing Marcos Bellini from Italy...that kid can shoot the lights out and will almost INEVITABLY be available when the Kings pick. With so many Bigs, we'll get maybe the 5-8 best big in the draft...and after Oden, Durant, Noah and Wright the competition drops SIGNIFICANTLY.

Bellini is the #1 or #2 SG in this draft. I think overall he will be a very very good NBA player, much like what Kevin has become.

Say trade #1 goes down...we keep our pick and draft Bellini and get Gasol to be our big man...

Our line-up is now:

C: Brad Miller, Justin Williams
PF: Pau Gasol, Kenny Thomas, Brian Cardinal
SF: Ron Artest, Francisco Garcia
SG: John Salmons, Marcos Bellini, Dahntay Jones
PG: Mike Bibby, Quincy Douby, Ronnie Price

You figure we add a MLE big man and maybe take another flyer on an undrafted kid(like Williams.)

That team, IMO is a 50 win team on paper. Gasol IS that good, at this point...due to age and contract status, I'd rather have Gasol than KG on Kings. I guess you don't value Gasol as much as I do.

HELL FREAKING NO. bad writing on the wall on this trade. the kings need to clear out some caproom and just freaking rebuild. are we gonna throw ourselves all over him just because gasol is on the market? like nbrans said, unless this player is gonna put us in contention... it isn't worth it. we're placing some more band aids on this poorly constructed team that does not work.

 

[Big Cuz 15]

>are any of those guys potential franchise cornerstones?

they all have something in common. they're late 1st round picks, 2nd round pick and non drafted. i didn't know you could pick a franchise cornerstone that late in the draft.

>I disagree, because I suffered through a decade's worth of successive lottery picks who didn't make a difference: Joe Kleine, Harold Pressley, Pervis Ellison, ad nauseum. I have little faith in the draft as being the main component of fixing a team. Sure, drafting a Durant or Oden would be great. But the odds of A) getting a top-three pick combined with the odds of B) the player you pick emerging as a superstar are fairly long.

it's a new era. petrie is the GM now. did petrie pick those scrubs? how can you compare those picks to these upcoming picks when it isn't the same management or front office making the decisions? besides, i don't think they had all the scouting resources to make better judgements when it came down to picking the right player in those drafts.

i want to see a good product for at least 5-7 years like the previous run. lets just say NO to quick patches. lets do it right, clear some capspace & rebuild w/ young talented players. how did it happen back in 98? we had capspace to sign vlade, we had luck on our side in snagging webb and signed a lottery pick jason williams.

 

[sidney]

>

i want to see a good product for at least 5-7 years like the previous run. lets just say NO to quick patches. lets do it right, clear some capspace & rebuild w/ young talented players. how did it happen back in 98? we had capspace to sign vlade, we had luck on our side in snagging webb and signed a lottery pick jason williams.

Right, so if you take Gary's idea and somehow turn Bibby/Artest into Gasol (keeping Martin) AND get a lottery pick in next year's draft, we might be able to start something special through the next 5-6 years.

Gasol with talent around his is not a "patch". By himself...well...we've already seen that in Memphis to the tune of the league's worst record

 

[thedofd]

>are any of those guys potential franchise cornerstones?

they all have something in common. they're late 1st round picks, 2nd round pick and non drafted. i didn't know you could pick a franchise cornerstone that late in the draft.[.quote]

That's my point, too. They were low draft picks for a reason. It may not be fair to say, but none of them have shown that they deserve extended playing time. I'd assume that Mussleman would play them if he saw something different in practice. Sure, the Kings should try to develop those guys to their utmost potential. But to everyone on the board saying, "Let's play the young guys," while I might agree in theory, it could get even uglier.

As for counting on the draft and my dislike of the lottery, you responded:

it's a new era. petrie is the GM now. did petrie pick those scrubs? how can you compare those picks to these upcoming picks when it isn't the same management or front office making the decisions? besides, i don't think they had all the scouting resources to make better judgements when it came down to picking the right player in those drafts.

I mean no slight to Petrie or the current front office staff. But at some point, drafting for impact comes down to pingpong balls. This year, a GM with a top-two pick is likely to look like a genius for the next several years. Durant and Oden are potential superstars. But let's say you got the No. 7 pick, like the Kings did seemingly every year back in the bad old days. Where's the star there? Not saying there isn't one, but it's not a mortal lock. It never is, even for Petrie.

i want to see a good product for at least 5-7 years like the previous run. lets just say NO to quick patches. lets do it right, clear some capspace & rebuild w/ young talented players. how did it happen back in 98? we had capspace to sign vlade, we had luck on our side in snagging webb and signed a lottery pick jason williams.

We all want to see a good product in the long run. But the scenario you're describing -- an impactful lottery pick, a fortuitous trade and cap space to sign a big-time player -- just doesn't happen all at once very often.

But two out of three ain't bad, right? I think the opportunity to snag a player of Gasol's caliber roughly equates to the ability to trade for C-Webb. And that trade in and of itself wouldn't preclude the Kings from also having a lottery pick. Not much salary cap space, I grant you, but still, reasonable hope for improvement.

Again, I'm not particularly advocating a trade for Gasol, just saying that trading for a young, proven veteran can be a safer route than counting on the lottery and future free agent signings to change your fortunes.

 

[supamari0]

Again, I'm not particularly advocating a trade for Gasol, just saying that trading for a young, proven veteran can be a safer route than counting on the lottery and future free agent signings to change your fortunes.

Word, It's looking like my Rockets hosed the Grizzlies with that Rudy Gay for Shane Battier trade. Their new franchise player really hasn't looked so hot and Battier, good god, if there's a more intelligent player in the league, please show me that player.

Sometimes taking the veteran is a smart move. If the Kings don't have a shot at Durant, Oden, or Wright, I'd take Gasol in a heartbeat.

 

[Gary]

Well today my friend calls me (the guy that works at arco), and tells me that there is supposed to be something happening with the Kings before the trade deadline (maybe up to a couple weeks before the deadline). He heard we were going BIG and it will be a main guy (Miller/Bibby/Artest/K-Mart?) on the block along with filler... I hope the filler isn't a 2007 draft pick....

Maybe this big guy is Gasol... I am trying to think of big men from struggling teams.....

Think if it was Camby or something, or AK-47... We would turn into a defensive team almost overnight.

I think the Kings organization feels it's time to part ways with the guys that cant defend i.e. Bibby/Miller .....

 

[Smills91]

Gasol displayed tonight WHY he's capable of being the focal point of a team. Martin, 1st(top 5 protected), Thomas with Pot and Hart for Gasol, Johnson and Kinsey.

 

[Smills91]

Word, It's looking like my Rockets hosed the Grizzlies with that Rudy Gay for Shane Battier trade. Their new franchise player really hasn't looked so hot and Battier, good god, if there's a more intelligent player in the league, please show me that player.

Sometimes taking the veteran is a smart move. If the Kings don't have a shot at Durant, Oden, or Wright, I'd take Gasol in a heartbeat.

Also think back when the Bulls traded Brand for Tyson Chandler(#2 pick). Chandler is a solid player, but Brand is a perenniel All-Star caliber player. I'd take Gasol any day over our draft pick.

 

[Smills91]

Well today my friend calls me (the guy that works at arco), and tells me that there is supposed to be something happening with the Kings before the trade deadline (maybe up to a couple weeks before the deadline). He heard we were going BIG and it will be a main guy (Miller/Bibby/Artest/K-Mart?) on the block along with filler... I hope the filler isn't a 2007 draft pick....

Maybe this big guy is Gasol... I am trying to think of big men from struggling teams.....

Think if it was Camby or something, or AK-47... We would turn into a defensive team almost overnight.

I think the Kings organization feels it's time to part ways with the guys that cant defend i.e. Bibby/Miller .....

So he knows THAT much, but can't give any more details or speculation?

 

[VF21]

Hrm... rumors floating around the Kings are going to trade a core player for a big. Wow. That's like... eerie.



That's been speculated for the entire year, so I hesitate to see why it would all of a sudden be breaking news...

IF - and that's a big, big IF - Geoff Petrie is working on something, NO ONE is gonna know about it at this point. Speculation has been running rampant around Arco - and pretty much everywhere else - so I don't think anyone should be getting their hopes up too far quite yet over something this vague.

 

[BigSong]

Word, It's looking like my Rockets hosed the Grizzlies with that Rudy Gay for Shane Battier trade. Their new franchise player really hasn't looked so hot and Battier, good god, if there's a more intelligent player in the league, please show me that player.

Sometimes taking the veteran is a smart move. If the Kings don't have a shot at Durant, Oden, or Wright, I'd take Gasol in a heartbeat.

obviously your of a certain viewpoint, but its a bit early to know about the gamble on Gay. If he develops his outside shot more, he'll be huge for Memphis. Houston is just in a win now mentality.

 

[Big Cuz 15]

That's my point, too. They were low draft picks for a reason. It may not be fair to say, but none of them have shown that they deserve extended playing time. I'd assume that Mussleman would play them if he saw something different in practice. Sure, the Kings should try to develop those guys to their utmost potential. But to everyone on the board saying, "Let's play the young guys," while I might agree in theory, it could get even uglier.

uglier but at least the boys would be getting some actual on the job experience. you can read a book on driving 100x but it does not amount to half a day in actual driving in real traffic.

I mean no slight to Petrie or the current front office staff. But at some point, drafting for impact comes down to pingpong balls. This year, a GM with a top-two pick is likely to look like a genius for the next several years. Durant and Oden are potential superstars. But let's say you got the No. 7 pick, like the Kings did seemingly every year back in the bad old days. Where's the star there? Not saying there isn't one, but it's not a mortal lock. It never is, even for Petrie.

again, your comparing to some draft picks that petrie did not make. nothing is ever concrete but its alot more exciting to see a fresh face with potential than some vets who are doing the motions for their paycheck.

We all want to see a good product in the long run. But the scenario you're describing -- an impactful lottery pick, a fortuitous trade and cap space to sign a big-time player -- just doesn't happen all at once very often.

But two out of three ain't bad, right? I think the opportunity to snag a player of Gasol's caliber roughly equates to the ability to trade for C-Webb. And that trade in and of itself wouldn't preclude the Kings from also having a lottery pick. Not much salary cap space, I grant you, but still, reasonable hope for improvement.

Again, I'm not particularly advocating a trade for Gasol, just saying that trading for a young, proven veteran can be a safer route than counting on the lottery and future free agent signings to change your fortunes

i see your point. imo if we load up on large contracts (got-soul)

1) we will have to give up good talent to get good talent. (another team w/ a player of that caliber has to be desperate to want to take on our contracts to make that trade happen)

2)it leaves no caproom for growth (same situation we are in now) we'll again, be "good" but not great.

3)we'll end up w/ mid-late 1st round draft picks.

then you have to worry about pulling in some top talent FA. there are not alot of great players that want to sign as a FA on a rebuilding team.

i understand nothing happens in one season. what happened in 98 was something special but the safe route doesn't always yield results. the kings gambled on webb with his bad track record... that was not a "safer" route.

again, this is all my opinion

 

[Troy]

Also think back when the Bulls traded Brand for Tyson Chandler(#2 pick). Chandler is a solid player, but Brand is a perenniel All-Star caliber player. I'd take Gasol any day over our draft pick.

A big with superstar skills is not easy to find. Gasol is a very polished multi dimensional weapon. His height and size as well as his post moves and now shooting make him a guy to build around. Bibby and Brad aren't that old and their salaries are close to Gasol's, but Memphis would make the team pay so we'd have to probably give them KMart in the deal since he doesn't earn much and is a player with lots of upside. KMart is good, but he isn't a 1st option, Gasol is. I also really like Mike Miller. The guy has good size at 6' 8" and is a great shooter and slasher. He is also quick enough to play 3 positions. I know we have Salmons and Cisco that can do this, but Mike Miller is a premier shooter that spreads the floor and has range from well beyond the arc.

Do you think Memphis would take Bibby and Artest and Pot (3.6M expiring) for Gasol and Mike Miller? Our team needs better shooting and having good size shooter in KMart and Mike Miller would help out and they are both very mobile.

With Bibby's big contract and the chance of him walking and that he's a shot 1st PG, really a small SG..I would look to the future in Price for now. I'd really like a Darin Williams, or Delonte West. Why we didn't nab Rodriquez is beyond me. Why does a guy like JWill scare people? The guy has done pretty good after he settled down a bit and matured. I really want a pass 1st PG like Nash over a shoot 1st like Bibby. When Bibby's shot is off, like it's been a lot this year, he does little for us and is a huge liability on the defensive end.

 

[ntn9107]

Brad and Kevin for Pau.....Is it possible??

But I hate to see Kev go......

 

[Gary]

So he knows THAT much, but can't give any more details or speculation?

Nah all that he heard was a big name player from our team or perhaps two is gone, and we are supposedly in talks to get a big man. Thats all he knows. I pretty much added the rest.

He works in a non "insider" dept at Arco so he hears stuff sometimes because he is a snoop lol. But it's not like he is any kind of an insider so take it for what it's worth.

I was just naming names. Martin, Artest, Miller, Bibby could all be on the block.... It could be any big guy we trade for as well..

He had also heard that we might be getting a mid 20s first rounder from an east contender but not sure how accurate that one is.

But as VF said, it's all speculation and it's been read about for a year. My friend is just reporting the timeframe. It will happen boefore the deadline, and we will possible get a pick out of this "trade" as well from an eastern conference team. We will see.

Im not saying Whis is going to be our coach or anything.

 

[Smills91]

Nah all that he heard was a big name player from our team or perhaps two is gone, and we are supposedly in talks to get a big man. Thats all he knows. I pretty much added the rest.

He works in a non "insider" dept at Arco so he hears stuff sometimes because he is a snoop lol. But it's not like he is any kind of an insider so take it for what it's worth.

I was just naming names. Martin, Artest, Miller, Bibby could all be on the block.... It could be any big guy we trade for as well..

He had also heard that we might be getting a mid 20s first rounder from an east contender but not sure how accurate that one is.

But as VF said, it's all speculation and it's been read about for a year. My friend is just reporting the timeframe. It will happen boefore the deadline, and we will possible get a pick out of this "trade" as well from an eastern conference team. We will see.

Im not saying Whis is going to be our coach or anything.

A big man and a 20's pick...sounds like Brad Miller/Mike Bibby for JO/Tinsley and their 1st.

 

[Gary]

Yah, im not sure how we will pull off a big man and a 20s pick, but leave it to Petrie to work the magic.

Just actually got off the phone with my friend, and he heard the same exact thing today. The Kings should be movers/shakers near the trade deadline.

 

[Smills91]

Yah, im not sure how we will pull off a big man and a 20s pick, but leave it to Petrie to work the magic.

Just actually got off the phone with my friend, and he heard the same exact thing today. The Kings should be movers/shakers near the trade deadline.

Bibby/Brad for O'neal/tinsley?

 

[Troy]

Yah, im not sure how we will pull off a big man and a 20s pick, but leave it to Petrie to work the magic.

Just actually got off the phone with my friend, and he heard the same exact thing today. The Kings should be movers/shakers near the trade deadline.

When exactly is the trade deadline again? This team is painful to watch. They really put on a fight in Dallas and then get spanked by the Grizzlies. Are we trying to lose? It sure looks that way, maybe that is the ultimate plan, but we have stiff competition as in the Atlantic teams to nab the top pick this year.

 

[Bricklayer]

I sincerely doubt J.O. wil be coming here:

If a deal to an East contender for a big and a 20's pick was coming, it would logically be:

1) the Cavs after Bibby, giving up Varajeo
2) the Magic after ?, giving up Darko
3) the Wizards after Brad?, giving up Haywood or E. Thomas
4) the Bulls after SAR, giving up PJ Brown (ender)

or some such.

Hopefully it would not involve the Pistons dumping Nazr on us, or Miami dumping Walker on us.

In any case, you guys are thinkng blockbuster. But if we're getting back a guy AND a pick, the guy is going to be of lesser caliber.

As an aside, I would generally be in favor of almost any of those deals, #1 to #4, if the surrounding details were right. Would be opening salvos in a rebuild.

 

[fnordius]

When exactly is the trade deadline again?

Feb. 24

 

[Smills91]

I sincerely doubt J.O. wil be coming here:

If a deal to an East contender for a big and a 20's pick was coming, it would logically be:

1) the Cavs after Bibby, giving up Varajeo
2) the Magic after ?, giving up Darko
3) the Wizards after Brad?, giving up Haywood or E. Thomas
4) the Bulls after SAR, giving up PJ Brown (ender)

or some such.

Hopefully it would not involve the Pistons dumping Nazr on us, or Miami dumping Walker on us.

In any case, you guys are thinkng blockbuster. But if we're getting back a guy AND a pick, the guy is going to be of lesser caliber.

As an aside, I would generally be in favor of almost any of those deals, #1 to #4, if the surrounding details were right. Would be opening salvos in a rebuild.

\\

FYI, it was said that the Kings offered: Bibby, Kenny, Douby for Snow, Gooden, Marshall and Varejao and the CAVS rejected it!?!?!

 

[Smills91]

I'm at the point that I need a Kings trade, just to make this season more interesting and entertaining. I still wanna win and want good trades, but this team has been BORING to watch...there's NOOOOO drama and excitement at all.