Gary Payton wants in...

[Spike]

When people see an office in dysfunction, it creates an opportunity to wedge oneself inside, to potentially place oneself in a position of power. Of course GP wants in. Now is the best time to try and needle in.

It's up to the adults to say no. Time to create some stability. One voice in the wrong direction is potentially better than multiple voices in multiple directions. We just lived through that.

 

[ParniValjak]

No ****ing way!

 

[swisshh]

Payton and CWebb are buds. If Barkley gets himself fired from TNT, either of them may want that job more.


Also, is there some deal with CWebb having animosity towards the organization? It's really weird that Shaq and Simmons are Boogie's biggest media pals while Webber kind of sits snidely on the sidelines.

 

[John Galt]

Gary Payton and Doug Christie as assistant coaches. Two salty tough 'tell it like it is' dudes. I would like it a lot (yeah I know I'm just making up and dreaming on the Doug Christie part)

 

[LPKingsFan]

Did I miss something? Is Doug Christie a candidate?

 

[John Galt]

Did I miss something? Is Doug Christie a candidate?

No that is just stream of consciousness BS from me. I've been thinking that he would be a killer assistant coach - and then somehow Gary Payton came up. there is no bonafide rumor about Christie becoming an assistant coach. Maybe I can start one??

 

[LPKingsFan]

No that is just stream of consciousness BS from me. I've been thinking that he would be a killer assistant coach - and then somehow Gary Payton came up. there is no bonafide rumor about Christie becoming an assistant coach. Maybe I can start one??

I've seen other posters mention him in other threads about assistant coaches, so you may have!

 

[VF21]

Doug Christie has been on the mind of quite a few Kings fans since he sat in for Bobby Jackson on the pre-game and post-game telecasts, both as a potential replacement for Bobby and/or a possible defensive coach for our guards.

 

[IfAt1st]

Why would Gary Payton come in as as assistant coach (of the team)?

If we want his defensive skills to be imparted to our guards, then why not hire him as a consultant, call it "Guard Coach" just like "Big Men Coach" is a common position.
I don't see him of any use for the forwards and centers on the team, and I wouldn't want him anywhere in a coaching capacity of the team in general - I don't believe he nearly has the analytical/observational frame of mind to properly coach teams, and players unlike himself.

I don't see the whole point of hiring ex-players (who were great in their position) as coaches of a TEAM.
Mitch Richmond probably never drew up a NBA play in his career - why would we want him as a coach?
Just because a guy is an elite athlete doesn't mean he knows jack squat about teaching other people, about analyzing opponents and coming up with multi-player strategies to combat them, etc.
Especially players who got by on raw athleticism. Their experiences in the NBA are actually counter-productive IMO for teaching someone else to play like they did - most people can't.

Ex-players like Jason Kidd, Avery Johnson, Mark Jackson, even Steve Kerr - I can understand those guys, because they made careers of being floor generals, who were integral to the offense and picking apart opponents.
But Gary Payton (and Mitch Richmond) simply did what they were able to do out there. That was from physical ability.
It takes intellectual ability to coach a team - you can't go out on the court and do it yourself.

Another point -
neither of them has shown me anything from their speaking engagements - I am not impressed with their skills off the court.

To contrast - someone like Doug Christie is EXACTLY the kind of player (and person) who might make an excellent coach. His observational skill, his ability to get across his points well, and his astute/accurate reads on subjects suggest he would be good for coaching.
Also, his on-court career was made with study, and effort. He didn't blow anybody away with his physical skills - it was his brain that let him win on-court battles.

To sum up:
Don't hire coaches for their athletic abilities - hire them for their brains, and their personalities.
And IMO, Richmond and Payton are lacking in those 2 areas.

 

[jdbraver]

Why would Gary Payton come in as as assistant coach (of the team)?

If we want his defensive skills to be imparted to our guards, then why not hire him as a consultant, call it "Guard Coach" just like "Big Men Coach" is a common position.
I don't see him of any use for the forwards and centers on the team, and I wouldn't want him anywhere in a coaching capacity of the team in general - I don't believe he nearly has the analytical/observational frame of mind to properly coach teams, and players unlike himself.

I don't see the whole point of hiring ex-players (who were great in their position) as coaches of a TEAM.
Mitch Richmond probably never drew up a NBA play in his career - why would we want him as a coach?
Just because a guy is an elite athlete doesn't mean he knows jack squat about teaching other people, about analyzing opponents and coming up with multi-player strategies to combat them, etc.
Especially players who got by on raw athleticism. Their experiences in the NBA are actually counter-productive IMO for teaching someone else to play like they did - most people can't.

Ex-players like Jason Kidd, Avery Johnson, Mark Jackson, even Steve Kerr - I can understand those guys, because they made careers of being floor generals, who were integral to the offense and picking apart opponents.
But Gary Payton (and Mitch Richmond) simply did what they were able to do out there. That was from physical ability.
It takes intellectual ability to coach a team - you can't go out on the court and do it yourself.

Another point -
neither of them has shown me anything from their speaking engagements - I am not impressed with their skills off the court.

To contrast - someone like Doug Christie is EXACTLY the kind of player (and person) who might make an excellent coach. His observational skill, his ability to get across his points well, and his astute/accurate reads on subjects suggest he would be good for coaching.
Also, his on-court career was made with study, and effort. He didn't blow anybody away with his physical skills - it was his brain that let him win on-court battles.

To sum up:
Don't hire coaches for their athletic abilities - hire them for their brains, and their personalities.
And IMO, Richmond and Payton are lacking in those 2 areas.

I would say doug was quite the athlete. Mitch not so much. Still I think Doug would be a good coach. Mitch maybe too. I don't think any of us can judge at this point. No coach would ever be successful if never given the chance. I'm sure Karl will make the right decision.

 

[The_Jamal]

See, I think people are underrating Boogie's mental capacity again. Everyone is so concerned that Boogie will clash with other alpha personalities, but I see him as someone who wants to be challenged and pushed to the best of his abilities. Now, there absolutely has to be respect between both parties, but we've seen what happens when that respect is there when under Malone and Coach Cal.

GP is the kind of guy who doesn't accept losing and can make a real impact on teaching and preaching defense. It's not like we're giving him the reigns of the coaching staff either. I think Cuz would gladly welcome someone like that into the fold.

 

[dude12]

Gary Payton.....not so sure about that.

 

[HereWeBoogie]

Doug Christie has been on the mind of quite a few Kings fans since he sat in for Bobby Jackson on the pre-game and post-game telecasts, both as a potential replacement for Bobby and/or a possible defensive coach for our guards.

i would absolutely love for him to be on TV. Either replacing Jerry Reynolds, or add him to Grant + Jerry, lots of tv broadcast crews in the NBA are 3 people

 

[chief bromden]

i would absolutely love for him to be on TV. Either replacing Jerry Reynolds, or add him to Grant + Jerry, lots of tv broadcast crews in the NBA are 3 people

Oh man, Christie replacing Jerry sounds like a really really fantastic idea.

 

[k_dubb90]

Payton is a yapping little jackass unfortunately.

I'm not one million percent against the idea, but you know what, it would be introducing yet another twitchy wildcard to a twitchy situation. I'm already concerned that Karl behaves himself given his tendency to wear out his welcome and pee people off, I'm deeply concerned about the front office doing the same, and there is every possibility Payton could run his mouth at DeMarcus and end up getting decked. There's only a couple months left in the season, this might be better experimented with over the summer/next year than in this volatile mess.

P.S. Payton was also a vocal supporter of Seattle stealing Sacto's team in case people have forgotten. Maybe they could hire Spencer Hawes as a big man coach next.

Well he did play for the sonics so that's kinda understandable

 

[k_dubb90]

Most of you guys are making it seem like boogie isn't down to accept any type of criticism in his game. These guys (Karl and Payton) are proven winners I'm sure he respects them already for their track record

 

[Spike]

Most of you guys are making it seem like boogie isn't down to accept any type of criticism in his game. These guys (Karl and Payton) are proven winners I'm sure he respects them already for their track record

The difference between respecting Karl's coaching acumen and Payton's, uh, whatever he does, are night and day.

 

[HereWeBoogie]

Oh man, Christie replacing Jerry sounds like a really really fantastic idea.

Christie is just incredible on TV and radio. He could easily get scooped up by ESPN or TNT if their people ever hear him

 

[Gary]

Nope.. Don't want him here.. I hate everything Seattle. When the crybabies lost the superbowl, it was one of my best sports days in a long time. They are a bunch of pompous arrogant idiots.

And yes, I know KArl did coach for Seattle.....

 

[pdxKingsFan]

I'm not the biggest Payton fan but I am not going to hold the Seattle thing against him. Really, it is a million times different than a guy like Hawes who played here and should have some respect for the franchise and its fans.

But yes, I'd rather have Christie or Rock or someone with Sac ties that might be throwing a bone to the long time fans. But Peyton and Karl obviously have a relationship and we could do far worse.

 

[Jerichoholic]

I'll pass on Payton as well, just because he was a great player doesn't mean he will be a great coach, in fact it can be quite the opposite. His attitude is also very volatile and that is probably not best for this team right now.

I think Christie or Richmond would be good though, very good players that understood the game very well.

I'm actually most concerned that it has been reported that Karl is going to keep on Malone and Corbin's staff through the remainder of the season. I know we are short on time, but it seems kind of lazy to me. If these players are going to learn from Karl and learn his system then he needs assistants who know that system, believe in it, and can actually teach it. We also need assistants who think that they will be here for awhile, not ones that expect to be fired in the offseason. That's also just more change that the players will have to go through. Perhaps the guys Karl wants are already under contract with other teams and can't get out of them right now. We will see.

 

[Bricklayer]

I'll pass on Payton as well, just because he was a great player doesn't mean he will be a great coach, in fact it can be quite the opposite. His attitude is also very volatile and that is probably not best for this team right now.

I think Christie or Richmond would be good though, very good players that understood the game very well.

I'm actually most concerned that it has been reported that Karl is going to keep on Malone and Corbin's staff through the remainder of the season. I know we are short on time, but it seems kind of lazy to me. If these players are going to learn from Karl and learn his system then he needs assistants who know that system, believe in it, and can actually teach it. We also need assistants who think that they will be here for awhile, not ones that expect to be fired in the offseason. That's also just more change that the players will have to go through. Perhaps the guys Karl wants are already under contract with other teams and can't get out of them right now. We will see.

Very hard to teach a new system midseason, and probably just as importantly, a great many guys Karl might want on his staff are probably already employed elsewhere right now. So assembling a new staff with 30 games to go = either picking 2nd stringers who you will again fire in 30 games, or jsut using what you have here as best you can until the end of the season, then putting together a longterm crew over the summer.

 

[pdxKingsFan]

^and that's probably what Payton is thinking if he's trying to break in to NBA coaching somehow. Get on Karl's staff this year based on their past relationship and hope he sticks.

Or he could just watch all his son's games.

 

[rainmaker]

To sum up:
Don't hire coaches for their athletic abilities - hire them for their brains, and their personalities.
And IMO, Richmond and Payton are lacking in those 2 areas.

I'd say you're quite underselling GP. He wasn't the top defensive PG of his era based on athleticism, he's one of the smartest defending PG's the league has ever seen. It comes from knowing the ins and outs of your opponents, watching film, understanding systems, knowing what opponents want to do and taking that away from them. Even anticipation many time comes from thinking just a little faster than everyone else, which many times comes from preparation.

GP didn't teach Kobe to become more athletic, he taught him how to think and see the game as a defender.

 

[Bricklayer]

I'd say you're quite underselling GP. He wasn't the top defensive PG of his era based on athleticism, he's one of the smartest defending PG's the league has ever seen. It comes from knowing the ins and outs of your opponents, watching film, understanding systems, knowing what opponents want to do and taking that away from them. Even anticipation many time comes from thinking just a little faster than everyone else, which many times comes from preparation.

GP didn't teach Kobe to become more athletic, he taught him how to think and see the game as a defender.

I'm not sure if I agree with either the athleticism or smarts in GPs case as being the key.

I think GP, like many/most truly dominant defenders, hated his opponent and wanted to dominate him. Wanted to crush him. His defensive approach was like a gamelong Dikembe finger wag. Smother you end to end, bump, grind, poke, talk, talk, talk, take the ball, talk, poke, bump, talk, endlessly aggressive and advesarial. The same personality that bothers me as a coaching prospect was I think the real key. And that's not truly transferable. You are either that way or you aren't. That doesn't mean I don't think he has a lot of knowledge that could help if delivered in a sane fashion. But it does mean I don't think this is a professorial figure like a Shane Battier. At a certain point I see GP's advice as a coach devolving to him racing up and down on the sideline jumping up and down screaming "get on him! get on him! smother him! take it! take it! take it! he ain't nothing! he ain't nothing! go! go! get it! kill!"

 

[Glenn]

I'm not sure if I agree with either the athleticism or smarts in GPs case as being the key.

I think GP, like many/most truly dominant defenders, hated his opponent and wanted to dominate him. Wanted to crush him. His defensive approach was like a gamelong Dikembe finger wag. Smother you end to end, bump, grind, poke, talk, talk, talk, take the ball, talk, poke, bump, talk, endlessly aggressive and advesarial. The same personality that bothers me as a coaching prospect was I think the real key. And that's not truly transferable. You are either that way or you aren't. That doesn't mean I don't think he has a lot of knowledge that could help if delivered in a sane fashion. But it does mean I don't think this is a professorial figure like a Shane Battier. At a certain point I see GP's advice as a coach devolving to him racing up and down on the sideline jumping up and down screaming "get on him! get on him! smother him! take it! take it! take it! he ain't nothing! he ain't nothing! go! go! get it! kill!"

People were convinced Boogie would be a constant malcontent. I will let Gary and George have a few chats and make up their mind from that. I don't know what Payton is like now nor how he would be as a coach.

 

[9x1x6]

Nah, to hot headed.

 

[hrdboild]

At a certain point I see GP's advice as a coach devolving to him racing up and down on the sideline jumping up and down screaming "get on him! get on him! smother him! take it! take it! take it! he ain't nothing! he ain't nothing! go! go! get it! kill!"

You say this as if it's a bad thing

I actually think a big reason why we've regressed defensively since Malone was fired is that there's no longer anyone getting mad at these guys for their defensive lapses and occasionally even getting in their face about it. When someone challenges you in that way, you'll want to step up your game as much as you can to get them off your back.

 

[Kingster]

I'll let Karl figure this one out. Advantages: great competitor, great credibility, HOFer. Disadvantages: Very outspoken (can he keep his mouth shut behind the scenes; I've had enough of "transparency"), not experienced in coaching.

 

[Bricklayer]

You say this as if it's a bad thing

I actually think a big reason why we've regressed defensively since Malone was fired is that there's no longer anyone getting mad at these guys for their defensive lapses and occasionally even getting in their face about it. When someone challenges you in that way, you'll want to step up your game as much as you can to get them off your back.

Oh no, having someone drive you can be helpful, and hence why I said I was not 1 million percent against it. But I am a long way from being certain Payton can contain that and only ride the opposing team/inspire in games.