Livinthedream
All-Star
You're probably right. The thought process has become a little incestuous and I'm fighting hard not to fall into it.
Game -5: Sacramento Kings v. Brooklyn Nets. 10/11/14 10 PM PST 1PM Chinese Time (I Think)
- Thread starter Tetsujin
- Start date
You're probably right. The thought process has become a little incestuous and I'm fighting hard not to fall into it.
The Kevin Martin idea is not a good one...with that contract? We signed Sessioms to be a combo guard and even though he's a smaller guard than KMart, he's as good a defender, which is really not saying much, but KMart gives you very little else. We have a guy who can fill that SG role when they want to go away from the young guys. You have a 3rd Pg who can cover either guard position who gives you better defense than any other guard we got in McCallum.
I'm all for upgrading any position but KMart is a reach and that contract is not that friendly. If you really want to dangle Ben for a vet, we could probably get much better deals than this.
I'm all for upgrading any position but KMart is a reach and that contract is not that friendly. If you really want to dangle Ben for a vet, we could probably get much better deals than this.
Bricklayer
Don't Make Me Use The Bat
That contract is INCREDIBLY friendly.
Here's what that contract buys you: a 19ppg player (likely closer to 16 or 17 for us) for 3 years for the MLE. With the cap set to explode with the new TV revenue. Teams normally get stuck with the problem: you only have room for 3 big contracts. A 4th big one becomes the Harden in OKC problem, or the Deng in Chicago problem. You get completely pinned. And there are 4 pieces that cost big bucks in the NBA: option #1, #2, #3 and your rim protector. Often that means what you end up choosing between is option #3 or that rim protector. OKC for instance chose rim protector (Ibaka) and let option #3 go to Houston. Chi couldn't get rid of Boozer, so dumped option #3 (Deng) and kept the rim protector. Miami signed options #1/#2/#3 but found itself without money for that rim protector. Well Kevin having such a small contract opens the realistic possibility that you get to have your cake and eat it too., You get your option #3, for an MLE type number. And then you still have room for that third big contract: i.e. rim protector.
Kevin at $11mil or $12mil isn't a good idea. Kevin at $7mil though is a career 18ppg scorer. Sessions CAN score. That's not the same thing as a guy who just DOES score. And we need a 3rd one of those to take the nightly pressure off Cuz and Gay to do it every single night.
Vivek says we're going to about wins now. After you miss the playoffs for 8 straight years its probably time. And on winning teams kiddies develop on the bench.
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Chupacabra
Starter
I keep forgetting to ask this; did anyone else think Moreland looked bigger than he was in summer league? Was it the camera angle?
ShastaKingsFan
All-Star
He looks to have put on 8-10lbs. Probably taking full advantage of the unlimited menu options with the team
Livinthedream
All-Star
Does this help us win now? We had a third scorer in IT, and it did no good. I think that if we don't address that PF spot, it doesn't matter about the SG. We're able to cover up for SG this year better than that PF spot.
I believe that Vivek said the team will be measured by wins this year, which doesn't necessarily mean we are trying to win a title. Could mean we just need to start to show progress. Of course playoffs would be nice, but getting into that 8th spot at all costs is not smart. I'd be all for trading Ben if I thought we were a piece away from contending. But we are not.
Except that IT played like he was the first option, and froze out others in the process. Kevin Martin is not a ball dominant player, and gets easy looks by moving without the ball. Stauskas looks to be that guy as well, but at this point I'd put my chips behind a known quantity over a hope.
That said, I would also love to find the right PF, but we're serviceable there. Not great, not good, but not terrible. We're not serviceable at the SG position, and a move like this would plug what I think is an overall bigger hole.
I see it as a want vs. a need.
That said, I would also love to find the right PF, but we're serviceable there. Not great, not good, but not terrible. We're not serviceable at the SG position, and a move like this would plug what I think is an overall bigger hole.
I see it as a want vs. a need.
I get and agree that it's about winning now but I'm not sold on KMart being the piece that could elevate us. KMart has had some good years but last year his FG % was fairly low. Besides his year at OKC where he shot well, he's had some pretty bad shooting years....except he does shoot well from 3 and gets to the foul line well.
K
KingMilz
Guest
If we are looking for a floor spacer who plays well without the ball Kris Middleton from the Bucks is another good candidate, he's probably not going to get much time with the Bucks since they are going to develop Parker/Greek Freak he would also be a answer to the back up SF position and we also have to be somewhat concerned about which Rudy Gay we are going to get this season.
We all know Rudy has insane talent but the way he plays could be the downfall or the uprising off this team. I rather wait 15 games to see what Rudy Gay is doing for us before we make any moves unless it's a for a shot blocker.\
We all know Rudy has insane talent but the way he plays could be the downfall or the uprising off this team. I rather wait 15 games to see what Rudy Gay is doing for us before we make any moves unless it's a for a shot blocker.\
How are we able to cover up for the SG spot better than PF this year? We have a rookie and a guy who is worse than most rookies. Sessions can play spot minutes but he's a very small SG. At least at PF we have JT who is a jack of all trades, master of none. A rebounding monster in Evans and a low post scoring threat in Landry. They aren't the best fits next to Cousins but they are worlds better than McLemore.
I think it absolutely helps us win now. At SG we have Stauskas who is a rookie and is going to do rookie things while going through rookie pains. Then we have McLemore who is just a black hole of nothing at this point. Gives you nothing on defense, nothing on the boards, no play making abilities and limited scoring abilities. You replace McLemore with a guy who can shoot the 3 at an elite level and get to the line and all the sudden we go from nearly no production to a high scoring option. Martin isn't going to get you rebounds or assists but neither is McLemore.
IMO this team is going to win 8-10 games more than last year as is. Throw in Kevin Martin and we are above .500.
Livinthedream
All-Star
Because if the team has no faith in its young Shooting guards, they could always use the Suns playbook and start Sessions and Darren. Ray Mc as backup. Even slide Rudy to SG for short periods if needed. We don't have that flexibility at PF.
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King Baller
All-Star
5 guards that can play and 5 Veteran Bigs plus Moreland. Better than last year!
NewArena
All-Star
great great post. yes to all of that
I'm not quite sure what you mean by us not having that flexibility at PF. We have a ton of PF's that do all sorts of different things. Right now at SG we have one guy who can shoot and one guy who can't do much of anything. I get what you're saying about the Suns but their combo guards are both much better defenders and just better players overall than our guards. I'm just saying Kevin Martin fixes any patchwork needed at SG. Start Martin and let Stauskas back him up. We go from absolutely no production at the position last year to positive production this year. It's tough to win basketball games when you're playing 4 against 5. Stauskas will be an improvement from our SG production last year but he's still going to go through rookie growing pains. It would be nice to have a guy there who you pretty much know for sure is going to give you 15ppg with close to 40% shooting from 3.
randymoss1881
Starter
So how are we getting Martin withou giving up Ben
Without giving up Ben who? McLemore? Since when is he off the table?
Sluggah
All-Star
3 things from last nights game:
- You guys were right, Omri Casspi is far better than Derrick Williams. I do not want to see Williams getting any playing time in the regular season. He's just awful
- Ramon Sessions was as AWESOME pickup, especially at the price. He is far better than Ray McCallum (and i have been a huge Ray Mac endorser) but it's just not even close. And i believe i heard the announcer last night mention that Sessions once had a 24 assist game
-Reggie Evans gets far too many touches when he is on the floor. It's almost like the other players have the mentality that he is the veteran on the team so he needs to get the ball on offense. For this reason alone, i do not want to see him in the starting lineup. I do love Reggie, but for the love of god, please stop giving him the ball at the high post
This has been really strange. I mean, even if it's just hitting Reggie at the high post and having him hand it off to a cutter, we're still having him hold the ball for 3+ seconds and making offensive decisions. Something we should ultimately be looking to avoid at all costs. And what's weird is we haven't really done that play at the high post for other guys very often.
GoodOldDouwe
G-League
Ugh, his ratings might be high, but he really looks like same old Derrick Williams in the game, I gave him six/seven open threes. Which resulted in six/seven bricks. The line-ups in 2K15 are screwed up too, ended up playing with me (6'10 PF) at the 5, Landry at PF, Reggie Evans at the 3(!) and I believe Jason Terry and Ray Mac a couple of time. And if you're wondering, no we didn't win a lot of games.
randymoss1881
Starter
I wouldn't trade him for a SG unless he is elite Martin doesn't even play DEfense. If we trade Ven it should be for a big.
Ron
Starter
No it didn't.
Game started 08:00 am Israel time.
It was nearly over by 10:00...
Are you sure you reside here with us, bro?
K
KingMilz
Guest
What about for Gerald Henderson?
TheJewishKing
G-League
J
jdbraver
Guest
Ben has zero trade value...the only way he gets any future value is to improve (not showing much here) or becoming an ending contract. I just can't see any value coming back. I mean many of you think other teams just like to give quality players away. If you like Martin or Henderson there is a good chance the other teams do too.
Livinthedream
All-Star
We're better at C and SF than the Suns. We don't need our guards to be better than theirs. We just need our guards to hold their own.
I'm not saying Stauskas is better than anyone until he's played some real NBA games and showed something on a consistent basis. Recent Kings history, let alone NBA history should tell you you don't know what you've got until the games are played. Preseason doesn't predict a whole lot.
Kevin Martin was on a team with KLove, Rubio, Pekocivh and Brewer as starters and they still didn't break .500. He couldn't help get them get over the hump. So there's that to think about too.
Saying Ben has zero trade value is over the top. He's a young player with potential. Teams can trade for that potential by taking a chance if it means getting an ending contract with him in exchange for a vet SG that a team wants to move. If Ben starts cashing in on the potential, then his value starts going up and then why would they deal him at that point if he does start cashing in on his potential.
For an example, our very own Derrick Williams who was deemed a bust by many, brought back a solid vet in Mbah a Moute.
And at this point, saying he hasn't improved is wrong....he just hasn't improved to the point of satisfying the impatient. I'm waiting for the impatient to start clamoring to move Stauskas once he puts up a stretch of pedestrian numbers. Maybe that's already happening with all of this talk of KMart or acquiring a SG. And yeah, I get that we are Ina win now mode...I've been saying that as well, I feel like we can get to 41 wins as is. I'm just not ready to pull the plug on the guard rotation already when we haven't seen them more than a handful of preseason games minus for the most part, heavy minutes from Cuz and Gay. I think the last thing this team needs to is to bring in a vet SG already......not going to happen.
J
jdbraver
Guest
Luc is hardly a solid vet after all his injuries. Remember we only gave a 2nd rounder for him so let's not pretend he was solid.
You have an offensively overinflated sense of McLemore's worth if you think he's only tradeable for an "elite" SG.
From my perspective, it seems like the more reasonable solution would be to lower Williams' rating, not raise Casspi's...
For us SG is still a training work in progress. In other words the position no matter of the two plays its too much of a liability. I think and have thought that bringing in a seasoned vet to start is a big step forward for us and a relatively easy one to accomplish. Let's do it. And if you give Ben in the process you are twice a winner because you won't have two raw SGs to to spend serious training time on.
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