From highschool to Europe:

[rainmaker]

The kid is 6-10 or 6-11 and you can't teach height. But Jennings has not progressed in europe as he hoped and is not even starting at this point. The culture in European countries is quite different from the US especially San Diego as is the language and style of Euro play. I think the kid's parents are after the money first, last and in-between and figure his height will carry him through. But if he wastes two years of development and gets picked by a lottery team, he is years away from making bigger money. But then greed looks at $1.5M of a lower lottery pick a lot different than most of us.

Plus the kid won't have an education (a GED online leaves out the people element entirely) or experiences of being a senior in high school or the higher level of life as a freshman in college. Those you can never get back. And after basketball, what does he have to fall back upon?

Jennings is a different person. He made his decision. Let this kid make his. Because you think Jennings decision to go to Italy hasn't panned out the way you would like you don't think anyone else should have that opportunity? Thats rediculous. Have you personally talked to Jennings? Do you think he hasn't gained valuable life experience by living abroad? Do you think he hasn't learned anything off the court? Your point about him not starting for his team is strictly based on basketball, not education. Would you feel different if he was tearing up the euroleague. Again, that has nothing to do with education.

You think his parents are after the money? have you talked to them? Thats just an outsiders opinion and speculation with no evidence.

How can you place a value on someone's senior year in highschool and freshman year in college? To some, it might be the best time of their lives. For others, they may not get anything out of it. And what do you mean by "higher level of life as a freshman in college"? Is earning a few 100K a year and living in Spain not a high level of life by your standards? Is sharing a dorm room with no money in your pockets while the NCAA makes millions off your talent a better way to go?

 

[bigbadred00]

The NBA doesn't have to require anything but they do. Obviously a company could pick anyone to work, but they usually have requisites. It's whatever the NBA wants. If they make things too complicated or hard then the guys will go elsewhere. If they make things too easy, I can't see an issue with it but they want to protect their product as well and for some reason they felt a need to add a requirement of not being able to go straight out of HS a couple of years ago. They did to for a reason--I guess they assume that at 19 you are that much more mature than 18, otherwise it's pretty trivial to me. As an NCAA fan I like it when the players stay longer--they could make it like the NFL which only drafts players after their 3rd year of playing ball but they don't. It hasn't seemed to hurt the NFL or NCAAF.

Who does it really hurt? Only really the few players who are talented and ready to jump straight from HS or junior year of HS into a professional job. There hasn't been much issue with success although it has been a mixed bag. Those who have made it--usually have been great but those who haven't--I'm really not sure what has happened to them. If they invested well, maybe they are alright. But odds are they didn't. They assumed they would be in the NBA for an extended period of time and most likely overspent.

 

[bigbadred00]

Jennings is a different person. He made his decision. Let this kid make his. Because you think Jennings decision to go to Italy hasn't panned out the way you would like you don't think anyone else should have that opportunity? Thats rediculous. Have you personally talked to Jennings? Do you think he hasn't gained valuable life experience by living abroad? Do you think he hasn't learned anything off the court? Your point about him not starting for his team is strictly based on basketball, not education. Would you feel different if he was tearing up the euroleague. Again, that has nothing to do with education.

You think his parents are after the money? have you talked to them? Thats just an outsiders opinion and speculation with no evidence.

How can you place a value on someone's senior year in highschool and freshman year in college? To some, it might be the best time of their lives. For others, they may not get anything out of it. And what do you mean by "higher level of life as a freshman in college"? Is earning a few 100K a year and living in Spain not a high level of life by your standards? Is sharing a dorm room with no money in your pockets while the NCAA makes millions off your talent a better way to go?

There are only a few athletes that make a ton of money for their school. Yes they don't pay you in money they pay you in education but for most athletes, probally 99.5% of them, they will be going pro in something other than sports--so in all actuality--the school is losing money on most athletes by paying for their scholarship. For a chosen few--yes they are losing money but for most--most sports programs if you include all sports are break even or even losing money.

What these players do get is free publicity, they are on ESPN all the time and on TV--and that's worth a lot of money if they go from a fringe NBA talent to a first round pick. Now I guess that may be true in Europe as well--but I don't think the %s of guys coming straight from Europe or this route are really that high. Most of the players are coming from colleges around the country. We all know about Blake Griffin, etc. from watching him on TV. I knew about Dirk, Darko, etc. through draft writeups but to most non-NBA hardcore fans noone knew who these guys were.

I don't think these schools, most of which are public are getting rich off these kids. That really isn't the intention of the NCAA. The school is exploiting them to get on TV more and to get more people to apply and goto their schools but they are exploiting the schools for their education (some), free basketball training, tutors, etc. that they get more than the average student. People act like it's only a one way street, it's two way. Do these things add up to the money they will be getting in Europe directly, probally not but I don't think it's as far as some of you are suggesting. And you guys are definitely right, some people just don't need to goto school--especially the one and doners. But other than going to Europe for a year--the only other viable option right now is going to College and for most that seems to be the right option. Noone, NCAA or NBA is going to stop a player from going to Europe....

 

[bajaden]

Plus the kid won't have an education (a GED online leaves out the people element entirely) or experiences of being a senior in high school or the higher level of life as a freshman in college. Those you can never get back. And after basketball, what does he have to fall back upon?

Well, if he's sucessful at basketball, he can fall back on the millions and millions of dollars he has in the bank. Look, for personal reasons I won't go into, I went straight from highschool into the Marine Corps. It was an emotional decision that in the short term ended up being a bad one. Shortly after signing on the dotted line on a early entry form, I was offered a chance to play in the Cubs farm system. Major league baseball was my dream, and I had just missed my chance at it. The Marine Corps wouldn't let me change my mind. Can you believe it?

I did get my shot later, but due to some injuries the dream faded. I went on to start my own business and made enough money to retire. I never went to college, and to be honest, the only thing I would study now would be english and writing. Writing is something I love to do and its the area I feel the most limited because of my lack of education. But I wouldn't trade my life for anyone's. I've lived experiences that some people only read about. Some good and some bad. And, I probably learned more from the bad one's.

Maybe in some vicarious way I'm hiding my envy of those enjoying the college experience by watching college basketball. But the advise I would give any young person is to follow your passion. Not your Mom or Dad's passion. Not your buddy on the playgrounds passion, but your own passion. If that path takes you to college, so be it. If not, then thats OK too. Sucessful people that follow their own passion are usually happy people. But I've met a lot of sucessful people that followed someone elses passion and are unhappy. They're good at what they do, its just that they don't like what they do.

If there's one thing everyone should be selfish about, its what your going to do with your life. As a good friend of my said once. If you think of life as traveling on a bus, do you want to be a passenger, or do you want to be the driver?

 

[kennadog]

If someone wants to go to college to follow his or her dreams, fine! But because someone wants to choose a different path. A path that they think will help them attain their goal by making them better at what they do, is no reason to criticize them. You can disagree with their choice, but it is their choice.

Lets be honest here in this debate. Do you really think that every highschool kid with talent goes to college to get an education in academics? The majority of those that believe they have a future in pro ball, go because the rules say they have to. So why are the rules there? Because the college is interested in the academic outcome of the player? Or because that player will help fill the arena with fans and fill the schools vault with alumni money. Does the NBA have a vested interest in the kid staying in school? Damm right they do. The longer that kid stays in school, the easier to judge his or her ability. The fewer the mistakes. Fewer mistakes means less money wasted on players that never pan out. I don't blame the college, and I don't blame the NBA. But lets at least be honest about why the rules are in place.

In a country, where were susposed to be free to chase our dreams, we find ourselves constantly tripping over someone else's principles. As long as his goal, my goal, or your goal doesn't interfere with the achievement of someone else's goal, other than outfighting that person for a rebound, then we should all be allowed the freedom to chart our own course.

I actually agree that the idea of the scholar/athlete has often been a joke. There have been plenty of athletes who have gone 4 years in college and leave with no degree. Colleges are exploiting a lot of these kids and using them to make money. Shame on them and something should be done about it.

It's just too bad there isn't an alternative for these young guys to grow and mature a little on and off the court without necessarily having to choose either college or Europe. For every LeBron and Dwight Howard who seem mature enough (and maybe this Jeremy, too) to make the adjustment there are far more 18-year olds who aren't ready for that much money, pressure and attention, too often with no one to advise them that doesn't have a vested interest in seeing them have lots of money. That's exploitation, too, even if it comes with big dollars.

 

[kennadog]

If there's one thing everyone should be selfish about, its what your going to do with your life. As a good friend of my said once. If you think of life as traveling on a bus, do you want to be a passenger, or do you want to be the driver?

We can agree on that. We shouldn't really think of it as selfish anyway. Generally if you are doing work you really want to do, everyone around you benefits from your happiness.

I can't say I've loved my jobs all the time. Still, I chose my path and my work enabled me to follow my passion...taking care of those I love as best as I can. That has made me happy.

 

[bigbadred00]

I actually agree that the idea of the scholar/athlete has often been a joke. There have been plenty of athletes who have gone 4 years in college and leave with no degree. Colleges are exploiting a lot of these kids and using them to make money. Shame on them and something should be done about it.

It's just too bad there isn't an alternative for these young guys to grow and mature a little on and off the court without necessarily having to choose either college or Europe. For every LeBron and Dwight Howard who seem mature enough (and maybe this Jeremy, too) to make the adjustment there are far more 18-year olds who aren't ready for that much money, pressure and attention, too often with no one to advise them that doesn't have a vested interest in seeing them have lots of money. That's exploitation, too, even if it comes with big dollars.

http://www.forbes.com/2007/12/27/co...s_0102basketball_slide_2.html?thisSpeed=15000

Here are what schools make on CBB. There are likely only 40-50 schools that are turning profits and most of those profits are used to pay for other athletic programs at the schools and paying those bills. Basketball and football are the only two programs I believe that turn profits at some schools. The rest of the sports which are good, are usually huge losses. Is it right that these 2 sports fund the rest of the sports at a school, nope. So obviously these schools could afford to pay their players are pretty nice salary if they had to. But let's be honest, most schools can't. The OMG exploiting thing is lame cause as I mentioned earlier with respect to all but around 60-80 players a year who are drafted, or get signed in Europe, etc. they are basically exploiting the college for free tuition, etc which most students don't get a chance to get.

So there are 300+ CBB programs all with 12 scholarship athletes. So thats 3600 students of which 90 or so each year are turning pro in basketball. Schools are making money but they aren't getting really that right and they are funding other athletes and keeping programs up.

And I think people are undervaluing the coaches, practice, and systems in CBB. They are definitely worth some money and if you were to try to buy that it would be very expensive. I understand players get that also in Europe but these players are getting some valuable coaching, sometimes worldclass coaching. For every Derrick Rose, etc. who were ready the time they left HS, there are many like Thabeet, etc. who need to be developed a bunch.

I know Stanford is a known sports program, that wins the Sears Cup alot (best IA sports program), but due to lack of funding (their basketball and football programs aren't that great)--they will be cutting back on some programs which they are dominant in.

 

[kennadog]

The OMG exploiting thing is lame cause as I mentioned earlier with respect to all but around 60-80 players a year who are drafted, or get signed in Europe, etc. they are basically exploiting the college for free tuition, etc which most students don't get a chance to get.

There are plenty of students who appreciate the scholarships and education they get by playing the sport they love. For most there is no going on to a "pro" career. are a lot of kids who can make it in college, but will never get that kind of help.

To me, the college system needs to be fixed, anyway. It's to the benefit of society as a whole to have qualified people getting higher education.

I was accepted to UC, Davis. The UC system was created as a public school system that would be able to provide an academic education equivalent to the best private colleges/universities to the top 10% of HS graduates, regardless of financial status.

Up until Ronald Reagan came along there was no tuition at UC. I paid no tuition in my freshman and sophmore years (68-70). I paid a student fee, bought my books. Imagine that.

 

[bajaden]

I actually agree that the idea of the scholar/athlete has often been a joke. There have been plenty of athletes who have gone 4 years in college and leave with no degree. Colleges are exploiting a lot of these kids and using them to make money. Shame on them and something should be done about it.

It's just too bad there isn't an alternative for these young guys to grow and mature a little on and off the court without necessarily having to choose either college or Europe. For every LeBron and Dwight Howard who seem mature enough (and maybe this Jeremy, too) to make the adjustment there are far more 18-year olds who aren't ready for that much money, pressure and attention, too often with no one to advise them that doesn't have a vested interest in seeing them have lots of money. That's exploitation, too, even if it comes with big dollars.

Well its an imperfect world, and all we can do is try and make the best we can from it. I had a highschool friend that went to college and got a degree in Chemistry. He then went back to school and got a doctrite in chemical engineering. The dude was way smarter than me. Damm if I could understand that stuff. You'd never know it to talk to him. Real down to earth guy. Good baseball player too. The irony of the story is that when he finally finnished his education, he couldn't get a job because he was told he was overqualified for the starting positions. He actually worked as a Pharmacist for over a year, until he finally landed a job at 3M. Life is full of little surprises.

 

[bigbadred00]

Well its an imperfect world, and all we can do is try and make the best we can from it. I had a highschool friend that went to college and got a degree in Chemistry. He then went back to school and got a doctrite in chemical engineering. The dude was way smarter than me. Damm if I could understand that stuff. You'd never know it to talk to him. Real down to earth guy. Good baseball player too. The irony of the story is that when he finally finnished his education, he couldn't get a job because he was told he was overqualified for the starting positions. He actually worked as a Pharmacist for over a year, until he finally landed a job at 3M. Life is full of little surprises.

How do you become a pharmacist with a Doctorate in ChemE. Most Pharmacists have a PharmD (if not all).

 

[Aenadin]

not saying that im against players and athletes and im imposing what I want... its just not right for a HS to go immediately into pro... rubio is an exception and so is james (moses malone.. etc) but there are cases like Darius Miles, kwame brown, and some other players who ventured from HS to college and didnt make quite an impact....its their life but hey, i dont want us drafting the next kwame brown not imposing hes the next kwame brown.. but out of the 10 for example from HS im pretty sure at there is a high possibility of drafting a kwame

well i apologize if i offended some people with my comment just concerned how higher education is sometimes being not much of a priority these days..
economy is bad and earning money now is the option... wish things could turn around in this world

 

[bigbadred00]

not saying that im against players and athletes and im imposing what I want... its just not right for a HS to go immediately into pro... rubio is an exception and so is james (moses malone.. etc) but there are cases like Darius Miles, kwame brown, and some other players who ventured from HS to college and didnt make quite an impact....its their life but hey, i dont want us drafting the next kwame brown not imposing hes the next kwame brown.. but out of the 10 for example from HS im pretty sure at there is a high possibility of drafting a kwame

well i apologize if i offended some people with my comment just concerned how higher education is sometimes being not much of a priority these days..
economy is bad and earning money now is the option... wish things could turn around in this world

Um, Kwame has made a ton of money and still in the NBA. Due to his hands he would have never been a better prospect.

Here are examples of straight of HS failures:

Korleone Young (2nd round pick)
Bender-Knee issues.
Leon Smith-Never heard of him
Ousmane Cisse
Livingston (injuries)
Robert Swift (some how still in the league)

 

[hrdboild]

not saying that im against players and athletes and im imposing what I want... its just not right for a HS to go immediately into pro... rubio is an exception and so is james (moses malone.. etc) but there are cases like Darius Miles, kwame brown, and some other players who ventured from HS to college and didnt make quite an impact....its their life but hey, i dont want us drafting the next kwame brown not imposing hes the next kwame brown.. but out of the 10 for example from HS im pretty sure at there is a high possibility of drafting a kwame

well i apologize if i offended some people with my comment just concerned how higher education is sometimes being not much of a priority these days..
economy is bad and earning money now is the option... wish things could turn around in this world

You just contradicted your own point. If Rubio is an exception and Lebron and Kobe and Dwight are exceptions, why isn't Jeremy Tyler also an exception? He's one of the top ranked players in his class. We've seen over and over again that elite HS prospects can make it as pros. The vast majority of them can't but the truly elite ones can.

And the money issue, well, what some people might not realize about Brandon Jennings is that his father died when he was young and he's been living with his single mom and younger brother most of his life. Financial security is a very real motivation for a guy like that. When he signed the contract with Lottomotica Roma it included an apartment where he lives with his mom and brother and admission to a top private school for his brother. It's not about being greedy and putting money ahead of education. Basketball is how he's making life better for himself and his family. And his brother is getting a much better education now than he was in the LA public school system. I don't think the decision he made was selfish and I don't think it was just dollar signs in his eyes. I think he surveyed his options and did what was best for his family. It sounds to me like this other kid Jeremy Tyler is making a good decision too. It's not the right decision for everyone, but it's the right decision for some.

Actually, I think going to a pro team in a different country is a lot more work than spending a year in college. College ball is probably a better showcase for young athletes than the Euroleague is. It's not taking the easy way out, it's not because these guys are too dumb to pass a college class. It's about financial reality. It's about ensuring a better future for yourself and your family. We talk about prospects and compare young players as fans. And that's fine, but the decisions they have to make are very different. This is their life. Not just a hobby or a diversion. I don't think anyone can truly understand what goes into that decision without being there themself. Working hard day after day with the hope, the dream, of one day playing in the NBA and providing for all the people who looked after you.

And for those of you that really think the college education aspect of these scholarships is important, isn't it a good thing if the one-and-done players go to Europe and play pro ball, like they really want to anyway, and the colleges give their scholarships to other less-talented athletes instead? Those are the guys who probably won't ever be professionals and really do need the education. For a lot of high school athletes an athletic scholarship might be their only chance to attend college. Those are the guys (and girls) who would really benefit from the education. It's my personal opinion that a lot about our higher education system is exploitative. But if the point of athletic scholarships is to give an inroads to college for people who wouldn't be able to otherwise, either because of academic elitism or financial inequalities, we need to get those scholarships to the people who will really benefit from the education experience and not just a chance to showcase themselves for the NBA.

 

[Kingster]

He's not an adult. He's a kid with a variety of people around him with thier own interests in mind, not his.

And would those people include the parents?

 

[Aenadin]

i guess living on the other side of the planet doesnt give me enough knowledge of how the mechanics of things there work ... sorry guys lol i grew up being taught that college is key to success im 5 years in and i still havent gotten my version of "success"


i havent seen this jeremy tyler though.. if you would compare him to an NBA player who could he be?

 

[Kingster]

Okay okay, maybe kissing their butt was too much, but I firmly believe that rule wasn't just to prevent busts in the NBA but rather help top college programs grab those handful of top HS players that they missed out on every year.

No they don't, at least not yet but that's kind of the hypothetical we're discussing here.

I think the rule was also made to improve the fundamentals of players coming into the league and improve the quality of the league play. As a fan, I don't have a problem with the league trying to do that. I would appreciate the higher caliber of play. But I also don't have a problem with the young player in question leaving for greener pastures either.

What I find unfortunate is that it's a "college or else" choice for young men who dream of being a pro basketball player. If 50% of the society isn't cut out for college, then why should 100% of young basketball players be cut out for it? Let's face it. If the powers that be could impose a rule that all candidates for the draft must get a college degree, how many would end up getting a degree in course work equivalent to basket weaving? Probably a hell of lot. A lot of them would be much better off at a technical school of some kind or getting mentored in some other kind of vocation they could fall back on if their dream doesn't come to fruition.

 

[rainmaker]

You just contradicted your own point. If Rubio is an exception and Lebron and Kobe and Dwight are exceptions, why isn't Jeremy Tyler also an exception? He's one of the top ranked players in his class. We've seen over and over again that elite HS prospects can make it as pros. The vast majority of them can't but the truly elite ones can.

And the money issue, well, what some people might not realize about Brandon Jennings is that his father died when he was young and he's been living with his single mom and younger brother most of his life. Financial security is a very real motivation for a guy like that. When he signed the contract with Lottomotica Roma it included an apartment where he lives with his mom and brother and admission to a top private school for his brother. It's not about being greedy and putting money ahead of education. Basketball is how he's making life better for himself and his family. And his brother is getting a much better education now than he was in the LA public school system. I don't think the decision he made was selfish and I don't think it was just dollar signs in his eyes. I think he surveyed his options and did what was best for his family. It sounds to me like this other kid Jeremy Tyler is making a good decision too. It's not the right decision for everyone, but it's the right decision for some.

Actually, I think going to a pro team in a different country is a lot more work than spending a year in college. College ball is probably a better showcase for young athletes than the Euroleague is. It's not taking the easy way out, it's not because these guys are too dumb to pass a college class. It's about financial reality. It's about ensuring a better future for yourself and your family. We talk about prospects and compare young players as fans. And that's fine, but the decisions they have to make are very different. This is their life. Not just a hobby or a diversion. I don't think anyone can truly understand what goes into that decision without being there themself. Working hard day after day with the hope, the dream, of one day playing in the NBA and providing for all the people who looked after you.

And for those of you that really think the college education aspect of these scholarships is important, isn't it a good thing if the one-and-done players go to Europe and play pro ball, like they really want to anyway, and the colleges give their scholarships to other less-talented athletes instead? Those are the guys who probably won't ever be professionals and really do need the education. For a lot of high school athletes an athletic scholarship might be their only chance to attend college. Those are the guys (and girls) who would really benefit from the education. It's my personal opinion that a lot about our higher education system is exploitative. But if the point of athletic scholarships is to give an inroads to college for people who wouldn't be able to otherwise, either because of academic elitism or financial inequalities, we need to get those scholarships to the people who will really benefit from the education experience and not just a chance to showcase themselves for the NBA.

Wow. Great points. I didn't know about his family situation. It goes to show how easy it is to criticize someone else from the outside. Everyone has their own situation, and should make the decision that is best for themself and their family. Going pro early instead of going to college is the right decision for some. That is the way I felt before I knew about his family situation, but that is a great example of how most people don't know what is going on behind the scenes and that no one should be denied the opportunity to do what they feel is best for themselves and their family.

 

[kennadog]

Jennings also did what he had to do to keep playing basketball until he could try for the NBA. Let's not forget that college wasn't an option for him, because he didn't meet the academic requirements. I really have no problem with his decision to go play in Europe. The NBA rule has not prevented him from earning a living playing basketball.

I do believe there should be alternatives to college for those who don't want to go or who can't academically. I just don't have a problem with the NBA setting an age limit either.

I just think back to myself at 18 and I was pretty smart, but I don't think I could have made clear-headed, good life decisions under such pressure with so much promised money tempting me. And I certainly wasn't prepared to navigate the shark-infested waters these kids are expected to swim through. Those are great whites swimming in the shallows, ready for an extra large bite.

I'll admit that some arguments here have convinced me that maybe players should have the choice without an age limit. I've never said anyone has to go to college, I just don't think people should talk like higher education is worthless somehow. Every legal adult has the right to make their own life decisions even if they turn out to be terrible. And there would be far more young men who will make a bad decision than the occasional mature, phenom for whom it will turn out well. That does bother me some.

 

[bajaden]

How do you become a pharmacist with a Doctorate in ChemE. Most Pharmacists have a PharmD (if not all).

I don't know the answer to that, all I know is that he worked as a Pharmacist. For all I know he had a degree in that too. He was one of the smartest people I ever knew, and it came easy for him. The guy loved math. I mean, only sick people love math. It makes my head hurt.

 

[bajaden]

I'll admit that some arguments here have convinced me that maybe players should have the choice without an age limit. I've never said anyone has to go to college, I just don't think people should talk like higher education is worthless somehow. Every legal adult has the right to make their own life decisions even if they turn out to be terrible. And there would be far more young men who will make a bad decision than the occasional mature, phenom for whom it will turn out well. That does bother me some.

Nothing wrong with having a humanitarian side. It bothers me too. The fact that there are poor people starving somewhere in the world bothers me too. But there's nothing I can do to correct the problem, other than maybe helping those around me. An opportunity that presents itself quite often down here in baja. The best help anyone can give to someone in need, is to help remove the obstacles from their path. But the path is their choice.

 

[hrdboild]

Jennings also did what he had to do to keep playing basketball until he could try for the NBA. Let's not forget that college wasn't an option for him, because he didn't meet the academic requirements. I really have no problem with his decision to go play in Europe. The NBA rule has not prevented him from earning a living playing basketball.

That's not true though. He did qualify -- but when he re-took the SAT test his score was significantly higher the second time, so he was asked to take it again (which is apparently routine for that kind of thing). At that point he already knew he was going to Europe so he decided not to take the test again. Unless you're going to take for granted that he cheated when he took the test again then he did qualify for college, but I don't see why anyone should make that assumption. The reporting on his whole situation has been pretty spotty and borderline misleading from the beginning. I think a lot of outside agendas were involved in reporting the "facts".

I do believe there should be alternatives to college for those who don't want to go or who can't academically. I just don't have a problem with the NBA setting an age limit either.

I just think back to myself at 18 and I was pretty smart, but I don't think I could have made clear-headed, good life decisions under such pressure with so much promised money tempting me. And I certainly wasn't prepared to navigate the shark-infested waters these kids are expected to swim through. Those are great whites swimming in the shallows, ready for an extra large bite.

I'll admit that some arguments here have convinced me that maybe players should have the choice without an age limit. I've never said anyone has to go to college, I just don't think people should talk like higher education is worthless somehow. Every legal adult has the right to make their own life decisions even if they turn out to be terrible. And there would be far more young men who will make a bad decision than the occasional mature, phenom for whom it will turn out well. That does bother me some.

I would never say higher education is worthless. However, I feel like the opposite (that everyone needs college to be successful in life) is equally untrue, though it sometimes gets stated as if it's fact. Some people have good experiences with college, and some people don't. There's a kind of social stigma that not having a college diploma makes you less qualified for any job. If you want to be a lawyer or a doctor or a psychiatrist or a similar profession, than absolutely you need to go to college to learn everything that is required of those fields. But what about everyone else? Does 4 years of studying 18th century literature or whatever make me more qualified to sit at a desk and analyze growth trends? Taken to it's extreme, the competition for college educated employees becomes a kind of social darwinism. Perfectly capable, hard-working people without the means to get a college degree are relegated to the bottom of the totem pole and the same inequalities are perpetuated for another generation. You could call it racism or class struggle or whatever, but I think those labels are just symptomatic of inequality in general. College can be a way to improve yourself, but it's not the only way. It's a means to an end, not the end in itself.

If my goal in life is to be a professional basketball player and I'm good enough to get a contract on a pro team right now and concentrate full-time on my intended profession, I think that level of work-ethic should be applauded. That's what it takes to be succesful -- a willingness to work hard, to get better. As soon as these kids enter the NBA, no one is going to be talking about their education anymore anyway. Their future success or lack of success in the NBA is going to be determined entirely by their ability to play basketball (and stay healthy).

What bothers me about this whole situation is that the NBA tries to come across like this rule is in the best interests of it's players, but it's really more of a business decision. The team owners are the ones who call the shots and they collectively decided that an age requirement is in their best interest. There's always going to be players who make poor decisions, regardless. A guy named Davon Jefferson was awesome at USC playing alongside OJ Mayo two years ago and decided to enter the draft. I think he was better than James Harden. He didn't get drafted though and now I don't know where he's playing. That's the flip-side to all the examples of High School studs who flamed out. Just as many college players fail to make it in the league. Jefferson met the age requirement. He was two years out of High School and old enough to enter the draft, but he still needed another year to show teams he was worth drafting. BJ Mullens this year is a similar case. Nobody thinks he's ready for the NBA. But his family needs the money and he's likely to be drafted in the first round regardless, so he's in the draft. No matter how high they raise the age limit there will always be players who misjudge their pro potential. Excluding those talented enough to succeed who, for whatever reason, want or need to start securing their financial future right away only helps the owners. If a guy blows out his knee in college and never plays again, who's going to swoop in to pay him for his lost potential? Who's going to help his family? No one is.

 

[kennadog]

Well, for the vast majority of people, having a college degree is going to make a big difference in lifetime earnings. You only have to look a Dept. of Labor stats to see that.

http://www.bls.gov/opub/ted/2003/oct/wk3/art04.htm

Does that mean you need to have a college degree to be financially successful? Of course not. My grandfather was quite financially successful as a building contractor. Of course, he worked way harder than than many of his contemporaries, including going to work the day after falling and fracturing vertebrae in his back, climbing ladders and scaffolding with bricks and hods of mortar.

But a good many people would most definitely benefit financially by earning a college degree.

I will agree that the cost of college is prohibitive for many. I think that's wrong. As I pointed out earlier, when I went to the University of California there was NO tuition for CA residents. It was originally designed to be that way. I went elsewhere my junior year when they instituted tuition (thank you Gov Reagan ). I still think we should enable affordable college education for any academically qualified student. It benefits everyone.

 

[6th]

I will agree that the cost of college is prohibitive for many. I think that's wrong. As I pointed out earlier, when I went to the University of California there was NO tuition for CA residents. It was originally designed to be that way. I went elsewhere my junior year when they instituted tuition (thank you Gov Reagan ). I still think we should enable affordable college education for any academically qualified student. It benefits everyone.

Gov Reagan? Damn! You are old.

I hope that our new administration is able to make college more attainable to those who wish to attend. Yes, the better education we give our youth, the better we can continue to compete in this global economy. It does benefit everyone.

And, of course, I am not saying that it is for everyone. But, I too was concerned about the "appearance" here that college was being discounted.

This has been a good conversation. Thanks to all who participated.

 

[kennadog]

Gov Reagan? Damn! You are old.

You ain't tellin' me anything new. It's startin' to scare me that I can talk about ancient history from first hand experience.

And it has been interesting. Mainly because there are no easy answers.D**m life's hard.

 

[bajaden]

You ain't tellin' me anything new. It's startin' to scare me that I can talk about ancient history from first hand experience.

And it has been interesting. Mainly because there are no easy answers.D**m life's hard.

You mean U.S. Grant isn't the president anymore? Man, time flies.. By the way, how many people know that S. wasn't his real middle initial. It was F. The S. was a typo when he entered West Point. He liked the sound of it, so he kept it. His real middle name was Farragot. Probably misspelled....

I don't want to turn this into a political discussion, but one has to be careful when going down the road of entitlements. The question becomes, where to stop. I've learned alot living in the Mexican culture. Its a test tube of sorts. If you see a mexican with a cheap knife trying to skin a fish, and feel sorry for him, and give him a very good filleting knife, he'll be very appreciative. But don't be surprised if you come back a week later and see him using it for a screw driver. It happened to me. More than once. However, take that same person and make him do some yard work for the knife, and he'll take very good care of it. Simply because he had to earn it, the knife had more value to him. Same knife.

Anyway, I'm not trying to throw a general blanket over everyone. I just think that sometimes you actually do a disservice to people by giving them things. Taken too far, you can slowly erode their self respect.

 

[Bricklayer]

Well, for the vast majority of people, having a college degree is going to make a big difference in lifetime earnings. You only have to look a Dept. of Labor stats to see that.

http://www.bls.gov/opub/ted/2003/oct/wk3/art04.htm

Does that mean you need to have a college degree to be financially successful? Of course not. My grandfather was quite financially successful as a building contractor. Of course, he worked way harder than than many of his contemporaries, including going to work the day after falling and fracturing vertebrae in his back, climbing ladders and scaffolding with bricks and hods of mortar.

But a good many people would most definitely benefit financially by earning a college degree.

I will agree that the cost of college is prohibitive for many. I think that's wrong. As I pointed out earlier, when I went to the University of California there was NO tuition for CA residents. It was originally designed to be that way. I went elsewhere my junior year when they instituted tuition (thank you Gov Reagan ). I still think we should enable affordable college education for any academically qualified student. It benefits everyone.

This talk of grandfathers and grandmothers and great aunts and whatnot making do just fine wiht no education is all irrelevant. The world has changed. In the 30s and 40s even going to college was fairly rare. In the 50s and 60s graduating from college was still a minority choice. A high school education was all many people got, and it was deemed sufficient for many of the blue collar jobs that dominated the workplace at the time. But the rates of college graduation have gone up and up and up, to the point THAT is the norm, and if you don't have a degree you are at an automatic earning disadvantage. If you don't even make it through high school its 1 in 100 you don't end up a janitor. Encouraging kids to ditch high school to run out and earn you some short term money is nothing short of socially irresponsible. Not that Sonny Scumwhatever actually gives a damn. He was the guy who engineered Jenning's ill conceived move too. The kids are just tools for him to work on his longstanding grudge against the NCAA.

 

[kennadog]

Well maybe the important thing to note about my grandparents is, even if they didn't go to college, they knew the value of education. All four of their children went to college. Three got advanced degrees and one did take some post-graduate college courses. My grandfather was hard-working and did well, but he knew college could provide their children even more

The Sacramento area is full of families where parents were hard-working farm laborers, immigrants and refugees that have children who are lawyers, doctors, physicists, college professors, business owners, etc. I think they understand what too many Americans are maybe too far removed from to appreciate. The opportunity for education can transform the prosperity and future of a family in a single generation.

 

[itzcoatl]

"Due to personal matters, Jeremy chose to leave the team on his own will on March 18 and return home to San Diego," Maccabi Haifa owner Jeffery Rosen said in a statement. "We wish Jeremy all the best."

http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/blog/ba...-experiment-has-come-to-an-end?urn=nba,229072

Unfortunate. I hope things turn out okay for Jeremy Tyler. This apparent failure cautions hesitation for future high school-to-Europe players.

 

[Spike]

How's Korleone Young doing, anyway?