From highschool to Europe:

[rainmaker]

And the ridiculous, compeltely ridiculous angle to this whole slop is the blatant greed which is being bought into here. This is not a choice, school OR basketball. For 50 years kids have been going to school AND playing basketball and turning out just fine thanks. The HOF is in fact nearly entirely composed of guys with 4 year college degrees, let alone who stayed in school long enough to learn how to spell.

That will only last until Kobe, KG, Lebron, Dirk, Gasol, and others are inducted in at some point down the road.

I don't agree that you can deny someone a chance at success because the next person might be a complete failure. Everyone has to take responsibilty for their own situation. Life isn't fair. Some succeed, some don't.

 

[VF21]

He's not an adult. He's a kid with a variety of people around him with thier own interests in mind, not his. And this one may make it. He could be a special talent unless the karmic injury bug strikes him down. But the 20 guys who will follow will not be. They will be vagabounds at the mercy of the actual adults who set them on their way, and their agent's new boat will last long long after they are left sleeping on a friend's couch. Assukming they have any friends after their freinds and family deem them no longer useful as a money tree. That's before we even get to the 100 kids who aren't plyers who see it as another sign that they don't need no stinkin' high school and end up dealing dime bags on the corner.

And the ridiculous, compeltely ridiculous angle to this whole slop is the blatant greed which is being bought into here. This is not a choice, school OR basketball. For 50 years kids have been going to school AND playing basketball and turning out just fine thanks. The HOF is in fact nearly entirely composed of guys with 4 year college degrees, let alone who stayed in school long enough to learn how to spell. There have been many failures amongst them, but at least the ones who fell short of their basketball dreams had something to fall back on after their "friends" had moved on to mooch off the next fool.

Bravo.

 

[kennadog]

I read some of these comments and they are condescendingly deciding why I have my opinion about education.

Let's see...no I have no particular interest in any of these guys playing in college sports. I rarely watch college sports. So you are wrong by saying most people thinking an education is a good idea are just college sports fans.

Or arguing its just jealous pople, because these guys get paid so much to play a game. I won't say that I'm not even a little jealous. I am a bit jealous at times as I'm human, but I've had a mostly blessed life and its due in no small part to the value my whole extended family places on education. Also, I've met enough really wealthy people with miserable, messed up lives to know that more than "enough" money does not make life happier. For that matter, lots of studies have shown just that fact.

Is the college recruiting system corrupt? Often it is. Should colleges make so much money off of these kids talents, while keeping them poor? No I don't think so. A lot of things could use changing. That's not the point either.

So, argue your point, but please do not presume to know what my "real reasons" are for thinking education is important. Are some people successful without college? Of course. They are invariably just about the hardest working people in any group.

No what I find sad and what some of you are displaying here is the attitude that higher education is worthless, boring and a waste of time, if you can already go out and make millions. Yes, they can go back to school later, but I wonder how many really will, since they've been told its a waste of their time.

So to me, what is important here is not whether any one person goes to college. It's the idea of families, coaches, agents, scouts deciding that education isn't as important as money. As many folks are finding out every day, you can lose every dime you have, no matter how rich you might get, but no person can take away your mind and the education you've given it.

And if someone thinks college is just about boring classes, useless books, dull professors, drinking, drug-taking and doing term papers they'd rather pay someone else to do...well then, they really have missed the point and the value of what you learn, as opposed to just what your taught.

 

[6th]

I read some of these comments and they are condescendingly deciding why I have my opinion about education.

Let's see...no I have no particular interest in any of these guys playing in college sports. I rarely watch college sports. So you are wrong by saying most people thinking an education is a good idea are just college sports fans.

Or arguing its just jealous pople, because these guys get paid so much to play a game. I won't say that I'm not even a little jealous. I am a bit jealous at times as I'm human, but I've had a mostly blessed life and its due in no small part to the value my whole extended family places on education. Also, I've met enough really wealthy people with miserable, messed up lives to know that more than "enough" money does not make life happier. For that matter, lots of studies have shown just that fact.

Is the college recruiting system corrupt? Often it is. Should colleges make so much money off of these kids talents, while keeping them poor? No I don't think so. A lot of things could use changing. That's not the point either.

So, argue your point, but please do not presume to know what my "real reasons" are for thinking education is important. Are some people successful without college? Of course. They are invariably just about the hardest working people in any group.

No what I find sad and what some of you are displaying here is the attitude that higher education is worthless, boring and a waste of time, if you can already go out and make millions. Yes, they can go back to school later, but I wonder how many really will, since they've been told its a waste of their time.

So to me, what is important here is not whether any one person goes to college. It's the idea of families, coaches, agents, scouts deciding that education isn't as important as money. As many folks are finding out every day, you can lose every dime you have, no matter how rich you might get, but no person can take away your mind and the education you've given it.

And if someone thinks college is just about boring classes, useless books, dull professors, drinking, drug-taking and doing term papers they'd rather pay someone else to do...well then, they really have missed the point and the value of what you learn, as opposed to just what your taught.

 

[VF21]

I read some of these comments and they are condescendingly deciding why I have my opinion about education.

Let's see...no I have no particular interest in any of these guys playing in college sports. I rarely watch college sports. So you are wrong by saying most people thinking an education is a good idea are just college sports fans.

Or arguing its just jealous pople, because these guys get paid so much to play a game. I won't say that I'm not even a little jealous. I am a bit jealous at times as I'm human, but I've had a mostly blessed life and its due in no small part to the value my whole extended family places on education. Also, I've met enough really wealthy people with miserable, messed up lives to know that more than "enough" money does not make life happier. For that matter, lots of studies have shown just that fact.

Is the college recruiting system corrupt? Often it is. Should colleges make so much money off of these kids talents, while keeping them poor? No I don't think so. A lot of things could use changing. That's not the point either.

So, argue your point, but please do not presume to know what my "real reasons" are for thinking education is important. Are some people successful without college? Of course. They are invariably just about the hardest working people in any group.

No what I find sad and what some of you are displaying here is the attitude that higher education is worthless, boring and a waste of time, if you can already go out and make millions. Yes, they can go back to school later, but I wonder how many really will, since they've been told its a waste of their time.

So to me, what is important here is not whether any one person goes to college. It's the idea of families, coaches, agents, scouts deciding that education isn't as important as money. As many folks are finding out every day, you can lose every dime you have, no matter how rich you might get, but no person can take away your mind and the education you've given it.

And if someone thinks college is just about boring classes, useless books, dull professors, drinking, drug-taking and doing term papers they'd rather pay someone else to do...well then, they really have missed the point and the value of what you learn, as opposed to just what your taught.

Very well said, kennadog.

 

[Vlade4GM]

He's not an adult. He's a kid with a variety of people around him with thier own interests in mind, not his. And this one may make it. He could be a special talent unless the karmic injury bug strikes him down. But the 20 guys who will follow will not be. They will be vagabounds at the mercy of the actual adults who set them on their way, and their agent's new boat will last long long after they are left sleeping on a friend's couch. Assukming they have any friends after their freinds and family deem them no longer useful as a money tree. That's before we even get to the 100 kids who aren't plyers who see it as another sign that they don't need no stinkin' high school and end up dealing dime bags on the corner.

And the ridiculous, compeltely ridiculous angle to this whole slop is the blatant greed which is being bought into here. This is not a choice, school OR basketball. For 50 years kids have been going to school AND playing basketball and turning out just fine thanks. The HOF is in fact nearly entirely composed of guys with 4 year college degrees, let alone who stayed in school long enough to learn how to spell. There have been many failures amongst them, but at least the ones who fell short of their basketball dreams had something to fall back on after their "friends" had moved on to mooch off the next fool.

I don't understand why someone not going to college makes them an idiot? Why don't you complain about European players who get picked up as teenagers and don't go to college that they're idiots? And as far as the spelling crack, I don't know about you but I already knew how to spell when I entered high school. This is his profession, why does he need to go to school if he's already capable of making money professionally? If he's just going to school to get into the NBA then any degree he gets isn't going to amount to anything in the real world. You think all these kids who get big scholarships are taking engineering classes or working on getting into law school? The kids who do that are the exceptions, and second of all are extremely self-motivated. The kids who are the top recruits are normally just going to school to get into the NBA. If they can get into the NBA without going to school then what's the problem?

Injury bug? What does college give him if he blows out his knee after they've made millions off of him? Oh you can finish getting your BA in communications kid . That'll get him real far. What does he get if he goes to Europe? A guaranteed six figured contract and a guaranteed shoe deal. He blows out his knee, he has money in the bank and that money can be used towards college and he can focus more on it without having the time consuming amateur basketball career.

Why do you just talk about the greed of sports agents? At least their greed is dependent on their client actually getting money in the bank and not the colleges who definitely try to influence them through greed and do it while they're in their junior and senior years in high school as well. Why is it different? Colleges make a ton of money off these kids, why aren't you complaining about their greed? You don't think they try to manipulate these kids like agents do?

So he can't go make money off his talents and pursue the career of his choice because some other kid might erroneously think he's capable of doing it? How does that make any sense? And how is that a kid who is going to have a successful academic career? Explain that to me.

Of course a college career and basketball career can go together. No one is saying opposite. However, professional basketball has changed since the pre-90's. The opportunity for very good money wasn't available to those kids back then, now to the top prospects they are available and school isn't the only place they have to develop their skills anymore. They don't have to subject themselves to the monopolies making huge amounts of money off their backs without giving them as much as a stipend.

 

[hrdboild]

See, now this discussion is going in the direction of debating the value of higher education. I would respond to kennadog's comments (because I do have a different opinion on the matter which is not entirely opposed, just different) but I'm worried that any such comments at that point are becoming more political than basketball related.

 

[6th]

So he can't go make money off his talents and pursue the career of his choice because some other kid might erroneously think he's capable of doing it? How does that make any sense? And how is that a kid who is going to have a successful academic career? Explain that to me.

Here is the crux of the problem. You seem to be alluding to the NBA as the only way to pursue his career. Yet, you acknowledge that he can make money in Europe (or else where). No one is saying that if you don't go to college, you cannot play basketball for compensation. However, if the NBA (which most of us consider the elite) want to say to get at least a year of college if you want to play in our league, where is the problem?

Do you think that high ranking companies don't have a right to set their hiring criteria? They all have the right to say that they want a college education in order to work for them. Why should the NBA be any different? Again, it is not like they cannot pursue their "career" in other countries (in this case in other leagues).

 

[rainmaker]

I think something being lost here in this conversation is that everyone should be able to sit down with their families and agents and decide what decision is best for them. Every case is different. Some will make the right decision, some will make the wrong. It is not our place to decide what is best for someone else. Everyone has to do what is best for themself and their family.

Everyone here has a valid opinion, regardless of if we agree or disagree. But they are just opinions brought on by different life experiences, their surroundings, morals aand value's. Each person should have a choice of what they want to do with their life. It really isn't our place to determine if a 17 yr old with the support of his family and agent should or should not play profesionally in europe.

I am not a parent, but if it was my son a would want him to go to college first. But I would not attempt to make that decision for someone else and their family, especially if it gives them an opportunity to secure themselves financially long-term.

 

[6th]

I think something being lost here in this conversation is that everyone should be able to sit down with their families and agents and decide what decision is best for them. Every case is different. Some will make the right decision, some will make the wrong. It is not our place to decide what is best for someone else. Everyone has to do what is best for themself and their family.

Everyone here has a valid opinion, regardless of if we agree or disagree. But they are just opinions brought on by different life experiences, their surroundings, morals aand value's. Each person should have a choice of what they want to do with their life. It really isn't our place to determine if a 17 yr old with the support of his family and agent should or should not play profesionally in europe.

I am not a parent, but if it was my son a would want him to go to college first. But I would not attempt to make that decision for someone else and their family, especially if it gives them an opportunity to secure themselves financially long-term.

I'm a bit confused. While I agree with what you are saying, I didn't realize that we were arguing playing in Europe vs. college. Personally, I am only arguing that if the NBA wants to say you need a year in college or a year professionally somewhere else, I have no problem with their being able to set their own rules about playing for them.

 

[hrdboild]

For those of you who think the kid is making a mistake, does this more comprehensive article on Yahoo sports change your mind?

One Giant Leap for Tyler

 

[Vlade4GM]

I read some of these comments and they are condescendingly deciding why I have my opinion about education.

Let's see...no I have no particular interest in any of these guys playing in college sports. I rarely watch college sports. So you are wrong by saying most people thinking an education is a good idea are just college sports fans.

Or arguing its just jealous pople, because these guys get paid so much to play a game. I won't say that I'm not even a little jealous. I am a bit jealous at times as I'm human, but I've had a mostly blessed life and its due in no small part to the value my whole extended family places on education. Also, I've met enough really wealthy people with miserable, messed up lives to know that more than "enough" money does not make life happier. For that matter, lots of studies have shown just that fact.

Is the college recruiting system corrupt? Often it is. Should colleges make so much money off of these kids talents, while keeping them poor? No I don't think so. A lot of things could use changing. That's not the point either.

So, argue your point, but please do not presume to know what my "real reasons" are for thinking education is important. Are some people successful without college? Of course. They are invariably just about the hardest working people in any group.

No what I find sad and what some of you are displaying here is the attitude that higher education is worthless, boring and a waste of time, if you can already go out and make millions. Yes, they can go back to school later, but I wonder how many really will, since they've been told its a waste of their time.

So to me, what is important here is not whether any one person goes to college. It's the idea of families, coaches, agents, scouts deciding that education isn't as important as money. As many folks are finding out every day, you can lose every dime you have, no matter how rich you might get, but no person can take away your mind and the education you've given it.

And if someone thinks college is just about boring classes, useless books, dull professors, drinking, drug-taking and doing term papers they'd rather pay someone else to do...well then, they really have missed the point and the value of what you learn, as opposed to just what your taught.

If you don't apply then please don't feel like I'm aiming it at you. I didn't mean to be aiming it at everyone with that opinion, if I made it sound that way I'm sorry and if it's any consollation it was out of frustration of comments media types and college people make criticizing these kids and blaming agents for doing the exact same things colleges do.

I've also read a lot of moronic comments being made by some dumb fans on other message boards who just read the headlines of these articles and concluded that this kid is a moron for not falling in line with the rest of the crowd. You can't deny that many of these people who stand to profit from these kids are saying disengenuously that they care about their education.

It wasn't an attack on college in general, I'm going to college and I think education is important...for me. Just like it would be ignorant for me to say college isn't rewarding to anyone, it would be ignorant to say it is rewarding to everyone. I'm saying kids shouldn't be forced to go to college to accomplish a professional goal when they don't need it to have success in that field. If they want it as something to fall back on then it's there if they want it, but if they don't want it then there isn't a whole lot of point to it. College isn't for everyone, not everyone values education the same, there is no right or wrong way to live one's life, and what makes one fulfilled is different for everyone.

Okay, I understand what you're saying about outside influences, but the thing is the influences are coming at all angles. Why are the schools any less wrong in telling these kids that college is what they should do when they can go pro? Why is there an assumption that wanting to go pro is all about money and nothing about individual fulfillment?

Lets face it, most people go to college to better their careers and for many of the kids we're discussing, basketball is going to be their career. You can bring up college's value outside of one's profession, but that is so subjective to the individual that it's pointless to bring it up because we don't know what truly fulfills that individual. I can just as easily say that the life experience one gains from living in a different culture while earning a living playing a game that they love can be very fulfilling. Maybe that's true for some of them, maybe it isn't but since we don't know lets keep the discussion about the practical benefits of each scenario. Ultimately this is about freedom of choice, there should be a choice for those who want it. You can say well they're being influenced, but besides the fact that they're being influenced both ways, the facts are that there are benefits to that option and it's understandable why a player would want to have that as an alternative. So we can't just assume it's all being manipulated by a sports agent's greed, if you read the quotes by this kid and his father he's thought quite a bit about this and his reasons are very well founded.

 

[Vlade4GM]

Here is the crux of the problem. You seem to be alluding to the NBA as the only way to pursue his career. Yet, you acknowledge that he can make money in Europe (or else where). No one is saying that if you don't go to college, you cannot play basketball for compensation. However, if the NBA (which most of us consider the elite) want to say to get at least a year of college if you want to play in our league, where is the problem?

Do you think that high ranking companies don't have a right to set their hiring criteria? They all have the right to say that they want a college education in order to work for them. Why should the NBA be any different? Again, it is not like they cannot pursue their "career" in other countries (in this case in other leagues).

I wouldn't know how to tackle that legally. That may very well be within their legal rights, but we'd probably have to see that play out in order to find out with accuracy. I would have to think it would violate some kind of discrimination laws if they had a different standard for international players than they did with American players, but I couldn't say for sure. Would they be willing to lose a lot of international talent by requiring a college education or partial education from them? Interesting questions, but I guess my biggest problem was with the reaction of some people in the media, college sports circles, and general public have to these kids who decide against college. It's more of an attitude I'm arguing against.

Obviously the NBA and NCAA make their own rules, but I like seeing Europe showing up as a viable competitor to the NCAA as a place for these players to develop, because it challenges their control over the market. Sure the NBA can counter it with more strict rules, but they have to deal with the backlash of those rules and having their bluffs possibly being called. They can go on kissing the NCAA's butt, but they may very well find out it's not worth it.

 

[kennadog]

Even if we allow that this could be the right decision for this young man, it could set a precedent for plenty of other kids to make the same decision and end up with no NBA job and no chance to go to college on a scholarship. Those kids will far outnumber the kids like this one, possibly exceptional talent.

I will defend the NBA's right to set job requirements same as any other employer. The NBA does not require them to go to college. As far as I know they don't even require them to have a HS diploma. I really would have no problem with the league just saying you have to be twenty years old to play in the league. No other requirements.

On the other hand, I have said before that not everyone is college material or wants to go to college. I can argue that without disparaging the value of a college education for those who want it and are qualified for college. There should be a way for those players who don't want to go college to participate in still learning the game of basketball, competing against good players and receiving proper coaching and physical training, while getting paid for it.

On the other hand, I don't think you can show me many examples of basketball players who suffered because of, or really regretted going to college.

 

[kennadog]

They can go on kissing the NCAA's butt, but they may very well find out it's not worth it.

How are they kissing the NCAA's butt? The NBA does not require anyone, American or foreign, to go to college, have a degree or even have a HS diploma.

 

[bajaden]

If you don't apply then please don't feel like I'm aiming it at you. I didn't mean to be aiming it at everyone with that opinion, if I made it sound that way I'm sorry and if it's any consollation it was out of frustration of comments media types and college people make criticizing these kids and blaming agents for doing the exact same things colleges do.

I've also read a lot of moronic comments being made by some dumb fans on other message boards who just read the headlines of these articles and concluded that this kid is a moron for not falling in line with the rest of the crowd. You can't deny that many of these people who stand to profit from these kids are saying disengenuously that they care about their education.

It wasn't an attack on college in general, I'm going to college and I think education is important...for me. Just like it would be ignorant for me to say college isn't rewarding to anyone, it would be ignorant to say it is rewarding to everyone. I'm saying kids shouldn't be forced to go to college to accomplish a professional goal when they don't need it to have success in that field. If they want it as something to fall back on then it's there if they want it, but if they don't want it then there isn't a whole lot of point to it. College isn't for everyone, not everyone values education the same, there is no right or wrong way to live one's life, and what makes one fulfilled is different for everyone.

Okay, I understand what you're saying about outside influences, but the thing is the influences are coming at all angles. Why are the schools any less wrong in telling these kids that college is what they should do when they can go pro? Why is there an assumption that wanting to go pro is all about money and nothing about individual fulfillment?

Lets face it, most people go to college to better their careers and for many of the kids we're discussing, basketball is going to be their career. You can bring up college's value outside of one's profession, but that is so subjective to the individual that it's pointless to bring it up because we don't know what truly fulfills that individual. I can just as easily say that the life experience one gains from living in a different culture while earning a living playing a game that they love can be very fulfilling. Maybe that's true for some of them, maybe it isn't but since we don't know lets keep the discussion about the practical benefits of each scenario. Ultimately this is about freedom of choice, there should be a choice for those who want it. You can say well they're being influenced, but besides the fact that they're being influenced both ways, the facts are that there are benefits to that option and it's understandable why a player would want to have that as an alternative. So we can't just assume it's all being manipulated by a sports agent's greed, if you read the quotes by this kid and his father he's thought quite a bit about this and his reasons are very well founded.

Vlade, Vlade, Vlade! I've always respected you opinion, while not always agreeing with it. But, I'm really starting to like you as a person. I find your opinions on this subject well thought out and personally revealing to a certain extent. And, I must say that I agree almost totally with everything you've said.

How this got turned into personal choice verses a college degree is beyond me and totally hypocritical in how it relates to college athlete's. So an agent who influences a young man to go to Europe and play basketball to futher his ability to get to the NBA is somehow a low life form. But a college recuiter who trys to influence a young man to play basketball for his college, while knowing all along that the young man probably has no intention of getting his degree, is a saint.

One could argue that the agent has more of a vested interest in the sucess of the young player than the recuiter does. Self interest perhaps, but what in fact is best for the player. Last time I checked, most people were excited about the chance to draft Griffin, who by the way is a sophmore. Or Rubio, who by the way has no college degree. Or some who hoped that John Wall might actually forego college and try and enter on the technicality of being a 5 year highschooler.

I sometimes get confused by which banner some of you are waving. Four of my closest friends are school teachers, and all four of them have thin skin where education is concerned. We do have some spirited discussions. And, God love them, they are four of the most closed minded people I know. Aristotle said, that a good teacher, teaches you how to think, not what to think. Even in those days he probably understood about politicians. My last quote of course you've all probably heard before, and my school teacher friends hate it. Probably came from a blue collar worker. " Those that can, do. Those that can't, teach ". Hey, I love teachers and education. I've met people who can't read and write. I can't imagine not being able to read a good book, much less the instructions on a medicine bottle your about to administer to your child.

My great grandfather, my grandfather and grandmother, and my mother never graduated from gradeschool, much less highschool or college. They all made sucesses out of their lives. They were loved and respected by all that knew them, and most of all, they were responsible people. Society will always set standards by which sucess is measured. But the only true measurement is the one you set for yourself.

 

[Vlade4GM]

Even if we allow that this could be the right decision for this young man, it could set a precedent for plenty of other kids to make the same decision and end up with no NBA job and no chance to go to college on a scholarship. Those kids will far outnumber the kids like this one, possibly exceptional talent.

I will defend the NBA's right to set job requirements same as any other employer. The NBA does not require them to go to college. As far as I know they don't even require them to have a HS diploma. I really would have no problem with the league just saying you have to be twenty years old to play in the league. No other requirements.

On the other hand, I have said before that not everyone is college material or wants to go to college. I can argue that without disparaging the value of a college education for those who want it and are qualified for college. There should be a way for those players who don't want to go college to participate in still learning the game of basketball, competing against good players and receiving proper coaching and physical training, while getting paid for it.

On the other hand, I don't think you can show me many examples of basketball players who suffered because of, or really regretted going to college.

So what's your point? The one's that can have success doing it shouldn't do it because others might foolishly follow? If they can get a deal like Tyler can then that is guaranteed money in the bank, money they can use on their college education. All they have to do is not completely blow it and they'll have plenty of money to get their education.

I didn't disparage college for those that wanted it and are qualified if that's what you're implying.

Fair enough, but what if they injure themselves in college or completely flame out and they could've had a guaranteed six figure salary and shoe deal straight out of high school? I mean, what is really stopping the players that go pro out of high school to get an education later on? They have the money, all they need to do is go to a JC, get good grades (like they would have to in a 4 year) and transfer to a university. Plus, they get to focus on their academics without the stress and time consumption of playing basketball.

I'm not saying this applies to you, it's a general question, but why do so many people complain when basketball players want to forego college to go pro when so many baseball prospects do it (with an even greater chance of not making it) and no one says anything? There are plenty of players that leave straight out of HS for even five figure signing bonuses, and after that there is nothing but puny minor league salary as long as you can hack it. Why the double standard? Why is it alright in so many other sports, but when it comes to basketball and football it seems that a college education is so much more important?

 

[Vlade4GM]

How are they kissing the NCAA's butt? The NBA does not require anyone, American or foreign, to go to college, have a degree or even have a HS diploma.

Okay okay, maybe kissing their butt was too much, but I firmly believe that rule wasn't just to prevent busts in the NBA but rather help top college programs grab those handful of top HS players that they missed out on every year.

No they don't, at least not yet but that's kind of the hypothetical we're discussing here.

 

[kennadog]

So what's your point? The one's that can have success doing it shouldn't do it because others might foolishly follow? If they can get a deal like Tyler can then that is guaranteed money in the bank, money they can use on their college education. All they have to do is not completely blow it and they'll have plenty of money to get their education.

I didn't disparage college for those that wanted it and are qualified if that's what you're implying.

Fair enough, but what if they injure themselves in college or completely flame out and they could've had a guaranteed six figure salary and shoe deal straight out of high school? I mean, what is really stopping the players that go pro out of high school to get an education later on? They have the money, all they need to do is go to a JC, get good grades (like they would have to in a 4 year) and transfer to a university. Plus, they get to focus on their academics without the stress and time consumption of playing basketball.

I'm not saying this applies to you, it's a general question, but why do so many people complain when basketball players want to forego college to go pro when so many baseball prospects do it (with an even greater chance of not making it) and no one says anything? There are plenty of players that leave straight out of HS for even five figure signing bonuses, and after that there is nothing but puny minor league salary as long as you can hack it. Why the double standard? Why is it alright in so many other sports, but when it comes to basketball and football it seems that a college education is so much more important?

Well, at least baseball has a real minor league system, which you cannot say for either football or basketball. Has there been a baseball player yet that went from HS straight to the pro team without playing at all in the minors? I'm not much of a baseball fan, so I wouldn't know.

As to injuring themselves in college, injuries are always a risk. They could injure themselves in their first year in the pros and never play again or never play close to their perceived abilities pre-injury. And if they are going to flame out in college, then that's actually an argument in favor of NBA teams wanting to have some way to find out if they can't cut it, before they promise some kid a huge salary.

Why should anybody feel entitled to a guaranteed six figure salary, when they haven't proven anything? I'm supposed to feel sympathy or outrage that they might have to wait an extra couple of years to get that guaranteed money and maybe provide better evidence of their talent and abilities by playing a higher level of competition?

I'd rather admire the courage of people who strive, work hard, delay gratification and sacrifice to achieve their dreams and pursue their talents, with no guarantees it'll ever pay off. I really don't know what to say if we become upset over kids who haven't proven anything maybe not getting guranteed millions soon enough.

 

[Showtime]

He's not an adult. He's a kid with a variety of people around him with thier own interests in mind, not his.

Every single person who is a year out of high school and are playing a year of college ball is an adult. Find a 17 year old NCAA ball player who won't be an adult by the time they can enter the draft. Most people are almost 18 years old by the time they leave HS, and that means that the "one and done" rule by the NBA effects adults who want to play pro ball. That's why I said the rule effects adults. By the time he qualifies for the league, he will be an adult.

And this one may make it. He could be a special talent unless the karmic injury bug strikes him down. But the 20 guys who will follow will not be. They will be vagabounds at the mercy of the actual adults who set them on their way, and their agent's new boat will last long long after they are left sleeping on a friend's couch. Assukming they have any friends after their freinds and family deem them no longer useful as a money tree. That's before we even get to the 100 kids who aren't plyers who see it as another sign that they don't need no stinkin' high school and end up dealing dime bags on the corner.

And what is the difference of the players now? They are scavenged like dead prey by vultures from universities who want to exploit them and they are surrounded by money grubbing friends/family/ looking to cash in. I don't see what the big difference is by playing overseas instead of playing one year of college ball.

And the ridiculous, compeltely ridiculous angle to this whole slop is the blatant greed which is being bought into here. This is not a choice, school OR basketball. For 50 years kids have been going to school AND playing basketball and turning out just fine thanks.

Am I missing something here? He's forgoing his senior year of HS to play ball, while getting his GED. How is this some rediculous negligence of education?

The HOF is in fact nearly entirely composed of guys with 4 year college degrees, let alone who stayed in school long enough to learn how to spell. There have been many failures amongst them, but at least the ones who fell short of their basketball dreams had something to fall back on after their "friends" had moved on to mooch off the next fool.

Newsflash: college players who want to play pro ball, for the VAST majority, don't stay 4 years and get a degree. Again, playing one year of college and leaving isn't any different, because they aren't there for college anyway. What he's doing now is just an alternative for people like him who just want to play ball.

That's the thing: some people just want to enter their profession (pro ball) and they don't want or need a degree to do that. For those people, school is meaningless. There's no point to going to school, other than it being the best avenue for the way it's currently set up by the NBA and NCAA. A degree was never a factor, regardless if he stays. This kid is taking a different route than the NCAA money funnel and I applaud him for that.

 

[Vlade4GM]

Well, at least baseball has a real minor league system, which you cannot say for either football or basketball. Has there been a baseball player yet that went from HS straight to the pro team without playing at all in the minors? I'm not much of a baseball fan, so I wouldn't know.

As to injuring themselves in college, injuries are always a risk. They could injure themselves in their first year in the pros and never play again or never play close to their perceived abilities pre-injury. And if they are going to flame out in college, then that's actually an argument in favor of NBA teams wanting to have some way to find out if they can't cut it, before they promise some kid a huge salary.

Why should anybody feel entitled to a guaranteed six figure salary, when they haven't proven anything? I'm supposed to feel sympathy or outrage that they might have to wait an extra couple of years to get that guaranteed money and maybe provide better evidence of their talent and abilities by playing a higher level of competition?

I'd rather admire the courage of people who strive, work hard, delay gratification and sacrifice to achieve their dreams and pursue their talents, with no guarantees it'll ever pay off. I really don't know what to say if we become upset over kids who haven't proven anything maybe not getting guranteed millions soon enough.

I'm not positive but I believe there has been at least one (in recent years). true about them having a minor league system but it pays them enough to get by in the early minors, if they weren't the big bonus players and they flame out then they probably won't have much money left to spend on school. So my ultimate point is that these kids go pro and forego college for much less guaranteed money than guys like Tyler and Jennings, and no one says anything about it. A baseball player risks much more foregoing college because scouting baseball players out of high school is far less accurate than it is for basketball players because the physical abilities needed are harder to test and project, it's more dominated by skills which for most players gets developed to a major league level during their "college" years if not farther along than that. You can say the same for hockey, golf, soccer, gymnastics, etc. nobody calls for people going into those sports to go to college first.

Well, we were comparing worst case scenarios for each avenue. With getting injured while going pro, you at least have that guaranteed money in your pocket and still have the option of college. We're talking about what's beneficial from the player's perspective. Your point doesn't really favor college or work against kids going to Europe because there are plenty of NBA scouts in Europe. As far as it being a case against high school players coming out, it's definitely risky but NBA teams were definitely apart of it becoming so fashionable to do, so I can't say it was really them calling so strongly for the 1 year after high school rule.

If all their HS performances are proof of nothing then how does the college system differentiate between their talent and the eventual scholarships they get? Obviously they've proven something out of HS in order to instill confidence in college programs, ad companies, and professional teams.

Why do they deserve money just coming out of high school? They're worth it if that's the kind of money or confidence they can produce in a free market. So, why feel sympathy for them? Well, if you're going to feel sympathy for any party it should definitely be the players who get hosed during their time in college. Not saying you should feel sympathy for them, but I don't see how you can feel sympathy for the colleges if they miss out on these players either. Are colleges entitled to free labor that makes millions just because they give them a scholarship?

So they should delay their professional careers even though the free market already determined that they can produce large amounts of money? Colleges make tons of money off of them and if they get injured or don't make it in the pro's they see any of that money. It's cool that you admire those things, but we're talking about a big business here. Neither the colleges nor the NBA are noble and selfless in their pursuits either, so why should the players be? And who says they don't work hard to even get to the point where pro teams, ad companies, and big college programs are after them? Who says they aren't achieving their dreams going off to Europe? Why is there this impression that it's all about money for them? I thought Tyler made great arguments for why going to Europe will be better for his development. This is on the job training in their desired profession in Europe, how many people can say they have that opportunity? And if it were any other field, who would blame them for taking it?

 

[Aenadin]

they should really put a rule in the nba where in age isnt the stipulation but at least a year of college for american born players before they can enter the draft (and they cant use euro playing as a loophole)... cause it would send a bad chain of events where in kids would just play and start flying off to euro and go back old enough for the draft

thats going to send a message where in skilled and athletic kids can just play and skip the whole education thing.... education is paramount...i should know im on my 5th year trying to earn my Bachelor of science... just 2 more terms!! lol

i mean i dont want a player who knows how to run the triangle offense but doesnt know what a triangle looks like

 

[CruzDude]

The kid is 6-10 or 6-11 and you can't teach height. But Jennings has not progressed in europe as he hoped and is not even starting at this point. The culture in European countries is quite different from the US especially San Diego as is the language and style of Euro play. I think the kid's parents are after the money first, last and in-between and figure his height will carry him through. But if he wastes two years of development and gets picked by a lottery team, he is years away from making bigger money. But then greed looks at $1.5M of a lower lottery pick a lot different than most of us.

Plus the kid won't have an education (a GED online leaves out the people element entirely) or experiences of being a senior in high school or the higher level of life as a freshman in college. Those you can never get back. And after basketball, what does he have to fall back upon?

 

[Vlade4GM]

So because education is important for you it means it's important for everybody? Explain that to me.

There have been plenty of successful players in the NBA that left after high school. When considering this fact explain to me how one year of college education is necessary to succeed in the NBA.

Some of them probably take a bunch of pointless classes that they probably don't even care about in that one year, should there be specific course requirements too before they go into the NBA?

 

[Vlade4GM]

The kid is 6-10 or 6-11 and you can't teach height. But Jennings has not progressed in europe as he hoped and is not even starting at this point. The culture in European countries is quite different from the US especially San Diego as is the language and style of Euro play. I think the kid's parents are after the money first, last and in-between and figure his height will carry him through. But if he wastes two years of development and gets picked by a lottery team, he is years away from making bigger money. But then greed looks at $1.5M of a lower lottery pick a lot different than most of us.

Plus the kid won't have an education (a GED online leaves out the people element entirely) or experiences of being a senior in high school or the higher level of life as a freshman in college. Those you can never get back. And after basketball, what does he have to fall back upon?

Jennings did not do well in Europe, that's for sure, but I don't think he progressed any less than he would have at Arizona. Just because he didn't do well in their system doesn't mean he didn't learn anything, he probably learned more there than playing in a system in college that would have catered to all his bad habits. Jennings draft stock is pretty much right where it was last year anyways at this point. Also, it's harder for guards because with different styles of play because their games have to change the most, but with bigs their jobs generally stay more the same.

He's going to be able to learn and develop his game there too, he won't get the ton of minutes unless his play earns them, but he'll be playing with, against, and under real pro's. Fully developed pro athletes. Dominating against HS players does nothing for his game.

As far as his parents wanting the money, his dad is apparently a fairly successful business man. So go figure there.

The "people" element of being a senior in high school? My senior year was total cake and I barely did anything and still passed all my classes. If I got a GED instead of attending my senior year in HS my life wouldn't be any different.

Your whole argument of "life experience" at these two levels of education doesn't hold water because a.) They're completely subjective in value, it doesn't have the same meaning for everyone or the same experience for everyone. This kid is going to be a star at college, surrounded by groupies and being totally pampered. Was that your college experience? And b.) When did living in another country and getting real professional experience in your field of choice become chopped liver as far as life experience goes? I'll take living and traveling around Europe, learning about a different culture while getting paid to do what I love over freshman year in college EASY.

 

[bigbadred00]

I don't think this is going to become the norm though. What is happening if they keep taking guards and undersized bigs is that the European teams won't play these guys that often. There is no reason for them to have to pay the up front costs that go into developing players into a professional game if there only pay out is the players leaving to go back to the NBAdraft. It makes no sense. In College it is known exactly what you are getting, you are getting a max 4 years and in most cases for NBA players--less than that. But for professional teams there is a lot of costs which come with bringing in ultra young, potentially filled talent. There is a lot of growing pains which come along with this talent. Unless they start requesting huge buyouts of these players contracts in Soccer, I can't see this really being that viable of an option for European teams if they can't keep these players long term. It honestly makes little to no sense short term where these players will be struggling to adjust and long term where these players if ready will go on to the NBA. If they some how hold them back from actually making the NBA it'll be bad for the player.

The advantage of college is there is a known brakeaway point which the college knows, the players know and the NBA knows. But with this--all parties know it but if the European teams are going to invest in these players in the short term they are going to get screwed a bunch and will likely stray away from doing it.

It's not like most of the kids coming out of HS today have NBA bodies. Most aren't LBJ. Most are small and undersized in comparison to their european counterparts who are much older and more developed. They won't dominate against most pros in Europe until a couple of seasons in--when they will try to come back to the states.

 

[bajaden]

Well, at least baseball has a real minor league system, which you cannot say for either football or basketball. Has there been a baseball player yet that went from HS straight to the pro team without playing at all in the minors? I'm not much of a baseball fan, so I wouldn't know.

As to injuring themselves in college, injuries are always a risk. They could injure themselves in their first year in the pros and never play again or never play close to their perceived abilities pre-injury. And if they are going to flame out in college, then that's actually an argument in favor of NBA teams wanting to have some way to find out if they can't cut it, before they promise some kid a huge salary.

Why should anybody feel entitled to a guaranteed six figure salary, when they haven't proven anything? I'm supposed to feel sympathy or outrage that they might have to wait an extra couple of years to get that guaranteed money and maybe provide better evidence of their talent and abilities by playing a higher level of competition?

I'd rather admire the courage of people who strive, work hard, delay gratification and sacrifice to achieve their dreams and pursue their talents, with no guarantees it'll ever pay off. I really don't know what to say if we become upset over kids who haven't proven anything maybe not getting guranteed millions soon enough.

Baseball question first. Having been a baseball player I do have a little knowledge of this one. Yes, there have been several that have gone from highschool to the pro's. With limited sucess I might add, and more so twenty or thirty years ago than now. There was a time when young men went from the farm or the sandlot right into the major leagues.

As soon as baseball learned how to milk the college system like basketball and football do, everything changed. When I played they had triple A, double A, single A, B, C, an entire alphabet of minor league baseball. It seemed as though there was a minor league team in every little berg on the map. With college doing all of their work, those teams are no longer necessary.

Now, back to the young man. I don't think anyone said the he was entitled to anything without working for it. Its just that your definition of what kind of work that needs to be done is different than mine, or, not wanting to speak for Vlade, but perhaps his. If someone wants to go to college to follow his or her dreams, fine! But because someone wants to choose a different path. A path that they think will help them attain their goal by making them better at what they do, is no reason to criticize them. You can disagree with their choice, but it is their choice.

Lets be honest here in this debate. Do you really think that every highschool kid with talent goes to college to get an education in academics? The majority of those that believe they have a future in pro ball, go because the rules say they have to. So why are the rules there? Because the college is interested in the academic outcome of the player? Or because that player will help fill the arena with fans and fill the schools vault with alumni money. Does the NBA have a vested interest in the kid staying in school? Damm right they do. The longer that kid stays in school, the easier to judge his or her ability. The fewer the mistakes. Fewer mistakes means less money wasted on players that never pan out. I don't blame the college, and I don't blame the NBA. But lets at least be honest about why the rules are in place.

I'm a big fan of college basketball. I would love it if all kids stayed in school for four years so I could watch them play for four years. But it would be hypocritical of me to say its because I just want them to get an education. Now you may actually feel that way, and thats fine. I have no problem with an idealistic set of principles. But their your principles, not mine, and probably not the principles of the kid that going to Europe.

In a country, where were susposed to be free to chase our dreams, we find ourselves constantly tripping over someone else's principles. As long as his goal, my goal, or your goal doesn't interfere with the achievement of someone else's goal, other than outfighting that person for a rebound, then we should all be allowed the freedom to chart our own course.

 

[rainmaker]

they should really put a rule in the nba where in age isnt the stipulation but at least a year of college for american born players before they can enter the draft (and they cant use euro playing as a loophole)... cause it would send a bad chain of events where in kids would just play and start flying off to euro and go back old enough for the draft

thats going to send a message where in skilled and athletic kids can just play and skip the whole education thing.... education is paramount...i should know im on my 5th year trying to earn my Bachelor of science... just 2 more terms!! lol

i mean i dont want a player who knows how to run the triangle offense but doesnt know what a triangle looks like

Are you serious? Require american born athletes to go to college for a year to be eligable for the draft? I couldn't disagree more. If you are 18 you should be able to go out and make a living anyway you want, as long as it is legal. Education is not paramount for an nba career. I don't even see the connection. There are guys out their with MBA's who are broke and have lost their life savings because of making poor decisions. Education doesn't guarantee anything. But a guaranteed contract does. It guarantee's financial stability.

How is having american born players going to europe a bad chain of events? Its their decision! Not yours. Not mine. Everyone places their own value on education. Living abroad, experiencing a different culture, living on your own, can be a great learning experience for a young man. That is real-life education that college doesn't give you. I know too many people that drank and slept their way through college, and living and working abroad might of had a more positive impact on their lives. Not everyone is ready for college after highschool, and not everyone will take advantage of the education offered.

Your said "i dont want a player who knows how to run the triangle offense but doesnt know what a triangle looks like". I find that to be an extremely ignorant and condescending thing to say, and obviously it isn't true. You think Kobe, Lebron, KG, and others like them don't know what a triangle looks like? Good arguement.

 

[Showtime]

they should really put a rule in the nba where in age isnt the stipulation but at least a year of college for american born players before they can enter the draft (and they cant use euro playing as a loophole)... cause it would send a bad chain of events where in kids would just play and start flying off to euro and go back old enough for the draft

thats going to send a message where in skilled and athletic kids can just play and skip the whole education thing.... education is paramount...i should know im on my 5th year trying to earn my Bachelor of science... just 2 more terms!! lol

i mean i dont want a player who knows how to run the triangle offense but doesnt know what a triangle looks like

How can people like you think that way? A top prospect who goes to college for one season so he can enter the draft has education at the bottom of his priority list. They don't care about their classes, let alone getting a degree.

People who think that education matters for one-and-done players baffle me.

 

[Vlade4GM]

I don't think this is going to become the norm though. What is happening if they keep taking guards and undersized bigs is that the European teams won't play these guys that often. There is no reason for them to have to pay the up front costs that go into developing players into a professional game if there only pay out is the players leaving to go back to the NBAdraft. It makes no sense. In College it is known exactly what you are getting, you are getting a max 4 years and in most cases for NBA players--less than that. But for professional teams there is a lot of costs which come with bringing in ultra young, potentially filled talent. There is a lot of growing pains which come along with this talent. Unless they start requesting huge buyouts of these players contracts in Soccer, I can't see this really being that viable of an option for European teams if they can't keep these players long term. It honestly makes little to no sense short term where these players will be struggling to adjust and long term where these players if ready will go on to the NBA. If they some how hold them back from actually making the NBA it'll be bad for the player.

The advantage of college is there is a known brakeaway point which the college knows, the players know and the NBA knows. But with this--all parties know it but if the European teams are going to invest in these players in the short term they are going to get screwed a bunch and will likely stray away from doing it.

It's not like most of the kids coming out of HS today have NBA bodies. Most aren't LBJ. Most are small and undersized in comparison to their european counterparts who are much older and more developed. They won't dominate against most pros in Europe until a couple of seasons in--when they will try to come back to the states.

It would be hard to really have an informed discussion on this because a.) we don't have a lot of history to refer to, and b.) we don't know what team he's going to choose.

Will he be getting the PT he would at college? Probably not, but it depends on how well he plays. That is actually a humbling lesson he learns and a good way to build self-motivation. Do pro's care about his long term development? No, but they care about his short term development and they know that if he feels he isn't ready he can stay another year with them. It's a similar situation to colleges that know they have one-and-done'ers, except there isn't as much competition for PT. It's ultimately the individual who has to care most about their long term development and work on their skills. You don't think he's going to look at the coaching before he picks a team? You don't think he's going to learn anything in practices playing against professionals? It's not all about getting a ton of PT in official games.

Obviously this route is not for everyone, but it should be an alternative for those who think they can do it.

If it ends up that Euro teams don't want to take a chance on these top guys then that's fine, I'm only suggesting that we allow them to take the opportunity to go a different route that if it's available to them. If the market isn't there then fine, nothing you can do about it. If it doesn't end up becoming a norm then fine, these kids should do what they want to do and if that's college and going the normal route then they should do that.