K
KingsFan80
Guest
Tolliver sucks..there is no other way to spin it. Temple is what he is, will not do much. The praise for Vlade around here is crazy, the man can do no wrong
I like the moves for what they are though they still need to do more.
What are the kinds of moves you think Vlade should have made?
K
KingsFan80
Guest
Who is going to play PG? Collison might be out for 24 games or so. For us to make an impact this year we need a flat out scorer, a Jamal Crawford, Crabbe, some guy that Cousins kicks the ball out to and he can make it happen. Do you think Affalo is going to do that? Jennings might shoot a lot, but we have to take chances. Signing Tolliver and Temple is not taking a chance, those guy will have very minimal impact. Would Jennings make a huge impact? Maybe, maybe not, but regardless you know the talent was there a few years back and for us we need to take that chance, especially for $5 mil.
I think he failed to add another impact player, both during the draft and during Free agency. He couldn't trade up to land one of the top seven in the Draft, he couldn't get Bledsoe or Knight in the trade deal and settled for some guy overseas we might never see. There is no way this current roster makes the playoffs, hopefully we can make some trades soon.
The Tolliver move puzzles me a bit- we already have a guy that can play far better as a stretch 4 on the roster (Casspi) and we just acquired through the draft a guy that pretty much all he can do is be a tall guy who shoots (Skal)- was it really worth 8 million spending on a Quincy Acy replacement without the hustle?
And is Garret Temple really better than Seth? a guy that already played here, has upside and we had his rights.
If you took the money we owed him and combined it with what we spend on Afflalo- that's Kent Bazemore/Allen Crabbe/Ryan Anderson money, or if you take that and combine that with Garret Temple that's Jeremy Lin salary with 4 million in change.
Obviously it's hard to blame Vlade cause we are all playin arm-chair GM and we don't know what he tried to do or not, and I love the fact we slapped team options on these deals which gives us flexibility but this is the year we were supposed to go all-in before Cousins becomes an expiring and we spend 22 million on bench rotation guys that doesn't move the needle and won't help us in the long-term and our big signing is Afflalo who I'm not very high on and doesn't play defense for a few years now.
So right now I'm not very happy- but I sense a trade coming, probably for Rudy by the structure of our roster- so I'm holding judgement, if it does happen and we get a PG like Bledsoe it will change my outlook completely since all of the sudden Omri will start/play heavy minutes at the 3 and so we will need Tolliver for depth, and Temple would be a good guy to cover as a bench combo-guard who can play some defense and Barnes will be needed as the backup SF... so I guess we'll have to wait and see.
ParniValjak
All-Star
You are assuming that Rudy Gay will stay. I suspect he gets traded and Casspi starts at SF.
Actually I'm not, I say that specifically in the last paragraph
My post was basically a long way to say- I don't like the moves we made so far, but it would make sense and my opinions about them will change if we trade Rudy for a quality PG which I think is Vlade plan for a while.
You have to look at the years. Those guys got long term contracts. If we ponied up for those players you mentioned, the Kings wouldn't be able to go after the 2017 FA class which offers more than those guys.
But you keep saying (and rightfully so) that we can't get big FA to sign here and this is DMC last year here before his contract becomes an expiring...
So why wouldn't you grab those guys while you can and sign a long term contract instead of betting you'll get a big FA to sign here next year IF DMC would still be here?
Again I'm not passing judgement yet because I'm 90% sure a trade is coming that can change the picture and also because I can't really know what happens- but on principal I don't get the logic of posters liking this moves.
DMC is a free agent in 2018, so we have him for 2 more seasons. The Kings can still sign better talent Kent Bazemore/Allen Crabbe/Ryan Anderson while keeping DMC for the that season. If the Kings have to blow it up should DMC walk, I'd rather have better players than the ones you mentioned a holdovers.
I know we have 2 years- but after this season he becomes an expiring, which means if we aren't competitive this year a trade might be in the works because we can't afford to let him walk for nothing and trading a guy midseason into his expiring contract will net you next to nothing (ask Atlanta on Horford this year).
So at the latest our crossroad between trading him or having him commit to us is this summer, so this season must go well.
And again- even if we signed one of these guys we could have cleared max room next year and since we aren't a FA destination I much prefer a bird in the hand and another long-term piece next to Cousins instead of placeholders and rebuilding in a year.
It really depends on how you define competitive. Signing one of those guys the Kings would still be bottom tier (6-8). Is that good enough for DMC? I don't know. Just having a stable FO and coach who backs him up while playing .500 ball might be enough for DMC to realize the team has a bright future. I'm sure Vlade has had these discussions and knows more about what DMC wants than you or me.
I think people forget that it isn't just about having the caproom and making the offer - players have to agree to sign the deal.
By all accounts the Kings were after Anderson (called him at 9:01 our time when FA began) and Vlade & Peja flew to LA to meet with him. He chose the Rockets.
Courtney Lee chose the Knicks. Bazemore predictably stayed with the Hawks as he loves the team and the city. Jeremy Lin didn't appear to be a Kings target but he returned to New York (Brooklyn) to play for a head coach who was an assistant with the Knicks during Linsanity and who he credits with helping him develop as a player.
Jamal Crawford returned to the Clippers who are still contenders and who play in LA.
The Kings might have wanted a number of guys. How many of them do you think wanted the Kings?
Tolliver was a cheap stretch four after Anderson spurned them.
Brandon Jennings is a career 39% shooter with a 25% usage rate who plays no defense and who is coming off a torn Achilles.
Allen Crabbe has become a good spot shooter but is a below average defender, anemic rebounder, an who isn't an explosive athlete (or even a good one) and doesn't create his own shot. I liked him as an option giving his length, shooting and youth but at $17+ million over four years to gamble on him going from decent sixth man to upper tier starting SG? I think he's benefitting a lot from a weak free agent class and teams with money burning a hole in their pockets.
Maybe Vlade's signings won't work out. But they aren't what I felt D'Alessandro did - pursue name guys regardless of fit. There is a plan here. And as someone who has been very frustrated with the Kings lately, I'm good with letting Vlade, Joerger and the rest of the organization try to implement their vision before deciding they've already failed.
By all accounts the Kings were after Anderson (called him at 9:01 our time when FA began) and Vlade & Peja flew to LA to meet with him. He chose the Rockets.
Courtney Lee chose the Knicks. Bazemore predictably stayed with the Hawks as he loves the team and the city. Jeremy Lin didn't appear to be a Kings target but he returned to New York (Brooklyn) to play for a head coach who was an assistant with the Knicks during Linsanity and who he credits with helping him develop as a player.
Jamal Crawford returned to the Clippers who are still contenders and who play in LA.
The Kings might have wanted a number of guys. How many of them do you think wanted the Kings?
Tolliver was a cheap stretch four after Anderson spurned them.
Brandon Jennings is a career 39% shooter with a 25% usage rate who plays no defense and who is coming off a torn Achilles.
Allen Crabbe has become a good spot shooter but is a below average defender, anemic rebounder, an who isn't an explosive athlete (or even a good one) and doesn't create his own shot. I liked him as an option giving his length, shooting and youth but at $17+ million over four years to gamble on him going from decent sixth man to upper tier starting SG? I think he's benefitting a lot from a weak free agent class and teams with money burning a hole in their pockets.
Maybe Vlade's signings won't work out. But they aren't what I felt D'Alessandro did - pursue name guys regardless of fit. There is a plan here. And as someone who has been very frustrated with the Kings lately, I'm good with letting Vlade, Joerger and the rest of the organization try to implement their vision before deciding they've already failed.
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steelevt
All-Star
I wouldn't have minded spending what we did on temple and tolliver and used it on Lin plus a few mill to spare in cap room.
ockingsfan
Starter
The only point guard left in free agency worthy of playing time is Ty Lawson.
He had a terrible year and maybe looking for an opportunity to prove his worth with some playing time.
The kings are one of the few teams left with a glaring hole on their point guard rotation and guarenteed playing time for him.
Once the free agency dust settles, if we can sign him to one of the exceptions available, I would feel a lot better about our point guard situation.
He had a terrible year and maybe looking for an opportunity to prove his worth with some playing time.
The kings are one of the few teams left with a glaring hole on their point guard rotation and guarenteed playing time for him.
Once the free agency dust settles, if we can sign him to one of the exceptions available, I would feel a lot better about our point guard situation.
Absolutely and that's why I'm hesitant to pass judgement on Vlade, but I don't understand why people here are thinking it's a great move regardless.
Is 8 million really cheap for a guy that will probably play small minutes as a stretch 4 for us and we can get what we need from him from Casspi?
I mean people are caught up about how crazy the market was (it slowed a bit) but we signed Temple, Tolliver and Barnes to a combined 22 million- do we really need all 3 of this guys and wouldn't we be better of spending some of that money on one better guy that would actually be here for the future?
steelevt
All-Star
You mean you didn't like our first big free agent signing under him? Overpaying for a pf we didn't need in Carl Landry. A move probably 95% on this forum hated. Or was it drafting back to back sg. No wait. You had to have loved trading IT for the trade exception and 2nd rounder only to be seen in summer league. F U d'alessandro.
To be clear, I'm not super excited by any of the guys that Vlade signed, though I do think Afflalo is an upgrade at SG.
But while these guys don't move the needle they do reflect a change in culture and priorities which I like. If the Kings are better defensively with a better balanced roster I'm happy.
But while these guys don't move the needle they do reflect a change in culture and priorities which I like. If the Kings are better defensively with a better balanced roster I'm happy.
This seriously annoys me, 2 years 6 million for Curry...
We could have easily matched that with better planning.
Yeah, this bothers me. Curry is a 3rd string PG but he's a great one to have and at $3 million per, I can't understand not bringing him back at that price.
Seems like they could have kept him with the room exception after the other signings. Frustrating.
I can only assume that Curry wasn't going to work as a defender for what Joerger wants to do. He apparently wants long, quick guys to defend the three, something Curry struggles with.
Vlade needs to address the PG spot
Seems like they could have kept him with the room exception after the other signings. Frustrating.
I can only assume that Curry wasn't going to work as a defender for what Joerger wants to do. He apparently wants long, quick guys to defend the three, something Curry struggles with.
Vlade needs to address the PG spot
lwc
Starter
Would he have taken 3 per from the Kings? Mavs are a playoff team that got even better.
theclash4u5
Starter
I would have rather had curry than temple
Section 101
All-Star
alden.viado
G-League
I'm really glass half empty on our offseason. I was actually at one stage glass empty and ready to throw up by moves but was a little encouraged by the signing of Temple and sactowns finest - Matt Barnes. First I was like WTF but then when I saw someone compare him to Doug Christie, I kinda understood it. Though he will never be Doug Christie level on defense, he'll do.
What still annoys me:
1) I still would rather Ryan Anderson over Anthony Tolliver and it could have been possible if they traded away Ben and Kosta for minimal return.
2) Afflalo is one and done here. Filler for what? Next year he's gone and Bogdanovic comes over. He would have been good last year instead of the Bellinelli fail
3) Rondo they never really tried to re-sign. Understand he was awful on defense and shooting, but he kept Cuz happy and Cuz wanted him back
4) PG oh what PG.. we don't have one.. oh and to rub salt in the wounds Seth Curry just joined a logjam of PG's in Dallas for 2/6m.. seriously we couldn't offer that? WTF?
5) 2 backup centres when he should've just drafted 1. Yes Skal has potential tell me this wasn't a Ranadive/Callapari move. All it took was for Coach Cal to call Vivek on draft night and use his browny points on him.
JC: Vivek can you draft Skal please, come one I'll coach you one day VR: Yeah sure let me tell Vlade or he's fired. So can you coach in 2020?
6) You waive Caron? Yeh he didn't play but he was a huge mentor. I love Matt Barnes and even though he may take that role as vet mentor for DMC but instead of looking to cool Cousins down he'll probably help or even instigate the fight! You needed Caron as that peacemaker/mentor on the bench!
What will restore my faith in this franchise?
1) Get a point guard
2) get a point guard
3) get a point gaurd
4) Ryan Anderson do a DeAndre and spurns the Rox but that will never happen.
4) Re-sign Quincy Acy
I don't care if its Westbrook, Rubio or Bledsoe have someone decent running the team!!! No offense to DC but he was playing for himself last season and yes it's a contract year so he'll play the hell out of himself to get a huge payday for 2017 but I hope we don't bite. Unless he turns himself into what Kyle Lowry did, but even then I aint sold on Lowry as leading anyone to the promise land.
Offseason grading after day 4: F
What still annoys me:
1) I still would rather Ryan Anderson over Anthony Tolliver and it could have been possible if they traded away Ben and Kosta for minimal return.
2) Afflalo is one and done here. Filler for what? Next year he's gone and Bogdanovic comes over. He would have been good last year instead of the Bellinelli fail
3) Rondo they never really tried to re-sign. Understand he was awful on defense and shooting, but he kept Cuz happy and Cuz wanted him back
4) PG oh what PG.. we don't have one.. oh and to rub salt in the wounds Seth Curry just joined a logjam of PG's in Dallas for 2/6m.. seriously we couldn't offer that? WTF?
5) 2 backup centres when he should've just drafted 1. Yes Skal has potential tell me this wasn't a Ranadive/Callapari move. All it took was for Coach Cal to call Vivek on draft night and use his browny points on him.
JC: Vivek can you draft Skal please, come one I'll coach you one day VR: Yeah sure let me tell Vlade or he's fired. So can you coach in 2020?
6) You waive Caron? Yeh he didn't play but he was a huge mentor. I love Matt Barnes and even though he may take that role as vet mentor for DMC but instead of looking to cool Cousins down he'll probably help or even instigate the fight! You needed Caron as that peacemaker/mentor on the bench!
What will restore my faith in this franchise?
1) Get a point guard
2) get a point guard
3) get a point gaurd
4) Ryan Anderson do a DeAndre and spurns the Rox but that will never happen.
4) Re-sign Quincy Acy
I don't care if its Westbrook, Rubio or Bledsoe have someone decent running the team!!! No offense to DC but he was playing for himself last season and yes it's a contract year so he'll play the hell out of himself to get a huge payday for 2017 but I hope we don't bite. Unless he turns himself into what Kyle Lowry did, but even then I aint sold on Lowry as leading anyone to the promise land.
Offseason grading after day 4: F
lwc
Starter
And he could have pulled a Jason Terry and refused to play. Remember, he asked to be released.
