Free Agency

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Sac.Kings said:
I suggest you look at the links I included in a previous post on the last page to see the stats and you will see the improvement we just made to our starting lineup with your own eyes. Granted, it's not earth shattering, but this guy can play. Ben can't. I would like to see your list of the "good things" for Ben as compared to Afflalo. This is what I have:
- Is younger (this isn't even a skill, just happened to be born earlier)
- Is more athletic (but doesn't know how to apply it)

That's it. Ben is done here. We have Afflalo here this year, Bogdan is coming over next year.... he's as good as gone. I have little sympathy for him. He had 3 seasons to prove something, anything, and didn't.
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Ben is a better defender. Afflalo has declined so much on defense, I don't think people realize how bad he really is. He's almost Belinelli bad.
 
Sac.Kings said:
I suggest you look at the links I included in a previous post on the last page to see the stats and you will see the improvement we just made to our starting lineup with your own eyes. Granted, it's not earth shattering, but this guy can play. Ben can't. I would like to see your list of the "good things" for Ben as compared to Afflalo. This is what I have:
- Is younger (this isn't even a skill, just happened to be born earlier)
- Is more athletic (but doesn't know how to apply it)

That's it. Ben is done here. We have Afflalo here this year, Bogdan is coming over next year.... he's as good as gone. I have little sympathy for him. He had 3 seasons to prove something, anything, and didn't.
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He has 1 more year to prove to us he's worth a damn. Cmon ben!
 
206Fan said:
Ben is a better defender. Afflalo has declined so much on defense, I don't think people realize how bad he really is. He's almost Belinelli bad.
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Care to support your argument with stats/numbers because the stats I've seen don't support what you are saying? Defensive win shares, offensive win shares, Afflalo beats out Ben in every single one.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/m/mclembe01.html
http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/a/afflaar01.html
 
Sac.Kings said:
Scapegoat? That's a convenient argument. Keep them blinders on sonny!
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No, the blindness is automatically thinking that anyone we bring in for SG is going to be better than Ben. We've been going through this scenario for 3 years and some people haven't figured out a couple of simple facts. 1. Ben is a pretty average SG when you look at his numbers. 2. Anyone we try to get in free agency that will actually come here is going to be an average player with flaws. So excuse me if I don't buy into this "Anyone but Ben" silliness. The team reduced his minutes, took him out of the starting lineup, brought in a vet sharp shooter to spell him and teach him the ropes, used a gritty tough player in Anderson for defense, and yet, the team results were the same.

I'm ok with the Afflalo signing, but I have no illusions that we've been saved somehow. I also don't expect Afflalo to get better with age.
 
Sac.Kings said:
A lot of you must have already forgotten what it's like watching Ben play. Afflalo doesn't have to be anything other than steady for us to be successful. Hit your shots, don't let your man decimate you, and provide leadership/toughness. Ben could not provide any of those things at any point in the last 3 years. Just by not being a complete and utter useless spot in the starting lineup, our wins will increase by 3-4 games, possibly more. There have been many games that Ben has cost us over the years, either by not defending his man or not hitting his shots. He hasn't earned **** other than earning the right to be traded. He's terrible. Spare me the story on potential please.
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Sac.Kings said:
Care to support your argument with stats/numbers because the stats I've seen don't support what you are saying? Defensive win shares, offensive win shares, Afflalo beats out Ben in every single one.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/m/mclembe01.html
http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/a/afflaar01.html
Click to expand...

I don't like Ben as our starter and I'm not thrilled about AA either.

You said: "Hit your shots, don't let your man decimate you, and provide leadership/toughness".

So Afflalo is better at hitting shoots but because of his shot-selection he has exactly the same TS% as Ben and while he is the better offensive player is production amounts to the 51th highest PER among SG's out of 76- better than Ben, but still pretty bad- another example is him being 42th amongst SG's in ORPM with -0.67, again pretty terrible but better than Ben.

About his defense by all accounts he's pretty terrible- players shoot 1.4% better on him which is the same as Ben but while AA's mark is the worst on the Knicks outside Calderon, Vujacic and rookie Grant- while Ben was about average as it relates to our team.
DRPM puts AA as 84th out of 96th SG's which is beyond terrible, while Ben ranks 39th.
DBPM has AA with -2.4 while Ben is -1.2.
So by the numbers (and my eye test if you trust it ;)) Ben is the better defender, he isn't good but he's better.

I'm gonna take the provide leadership as looking at team production while he played.
So +/- has AA at -2.1 which is the worst mark on the Knicks other than Grant and our beloved D-Will, while Ben is a +0.3 which is 2nd best on our team after DMC.
And if you look at real plus-minus AA ranked 80th amongst SG while Ben was 56th.

So I don't like both of them starting and while there is a chance AA will rebound if I say that I also have to respect the chance Ben will develop.
 
Sac.Kings said:
I suggest you look at the links I included in a previous post on the last page to see the stats and you will see the improvement we just made to our starting lineup with your own eyes. Granted, it's not earth shattering, but this guy can play. Ben can't. I would like to see your list of the "good things" for Ben as compared to Afflalo. This is what I have:
- Is younger (this isn't even a skill, just happened to be born earlier)
- Is more athletic (but doesn't know how to apply it)

That's it. Ben is done here. We have Afflalo here this year, Bogdan is coming over next year.... he's as good as gone. I have little sympathy for him. He had 3 seasons to prove something, anything, and didn't.
Click to expand...
He sells pizzas!
 
Sac.Kings said:
I don't hate the kid and I would be first in line to eat crow if he shows us something. It's not like I don't want him to succeed.
Click to expand...

Sometimes by the posts I read around here it seems like people are actually rooting against him. He's got a season left under his rookie deal there is still hope.
 
Livinthedream said:
No, the blindness is automatically thinking that anyone we bring in for SG is going to be better than Ben. We've been going through this scenario for 3 years and some people haven't figured out a couple of simple facts. 1. Ben is a pretty average SG when you look at his numbers. 2. Anyone we try to get in free agency that will actually come here is going to be an average player with flaws. So excuse me if I don't buy into this "Anyone but Ben" silliness. The team reduced his minutes, took him out of the starting lineup, brought in a vet sharp shooter to spell him and teach him the ropes, used a gritty tough player in Anderson for defense, and yet, the team results were the same.

I'm ok with the Afflalo signing, but I have no illusions that we've been saved somehow. I also don't expect Afflalo to get better with age.
Click to expand...
Anderson has always sucked, I never expected much out of him regardless. Bellinelli was completely misused on offense, but even so no one could have foreseen just how awful he would be. We knew about the defense, but the offense fell apart too. Whether or not Ben was misused, 3 years is a long time and he should have shown something by now. By what standard is Ben average to you? By win shares? That's not true. Maybe by shooting percentages, but the fact is he is horribly inconsistent and his defense has declined too. If the opposing SG is any good, Ben gets lit up like a christmas tree every time. Even scrubs lit us up consistently. Can't have that out of a starter. Afflalo is better than Ben. What we need out of the SG position is average. We need consistency. I say Afflalo meets those criteria.

If Ben was an average SG, you and I would not be having this conversation today and Afflalo would not be here either. I think that's proof enough.
 
itzcoatl said:
Glad we were not willing to pay 20M for Ryan Anderson.
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Yeah, that's downright lunacy. That's 25% of the minimum salary cap for a guy that can't stay healthy and doesn't seem a very good defender.

Lots of NBA players are gonna be very, very happy over the next couple days. I'm sure lots of people which their company would have to hand out ridiculous $$ even 1/10 the size of what the NBA is doing.
 
Sac.Kings said:
Care to support your argument with stats/numbers because the stats I've seen don't support what you are saying? Defensive win shares, offensive win shares, Afflalo beats out Ben in every single one.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/m/mclembe01.html
http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/a/afflaar01.html
Click to expand...
Come on man. defensive stats are garbage and you know it. they're laughable to judge ANY player off of.

Anyone who's watched the Knicks will tell you how terrible Afflalo's defense is. I could go on a Knicks board right now, and ask their fans. He was terrible.

I don't get it.... if you've watched Afflalo these last 2/3years, you'd know he's a poor defender.... Ben is better on defense.
 
Kingfanpaul said:
Shams Charania ‏@ShamsCharania
Free agent forward Anthony Tolliver is nearing agreement on a two-year deal with the Sacramento Kings, league sources tell The Vertical.
Click to expand...
I guess this is so Butler and Afflalo don't feel so old? Maybe it lets you split the six pack of Geritol Geritol evenly? At least you can't say Vlade is over paying for young players.
 
Tolliver is a solid signee....we did need a stretch 4, but at $8million? ouch. The only thing he literally provides is 3pt shooting.

Would be great to spread the floor with Koufos/Papagiannis though. Glad that the 2nd year is only $2million guaranteed... I have a feeling we'll be cutting him.
 
sdballer said:
He's a good 3 point shooter for way less cost. For the amount of minutes we have available for bigs, it's a good deal
Click to expand...

I like Casspi better as a stretch 4 than him, probably on the Quincy Acy spot- pushes Skal to the D-league.
An OK player to have for depth but I'm not sure how much we needed him.
 
sdballer said:
He's only 30
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My God you're right I don't know if that scares me more that he looks that old and has knees that bed already or or that we a stretch 4 that bad. I do hope that this year he'll heal up. Again I can't complain about the price but I'm pretty sure that he is not a Difference Maker.
 
The_Jamal said:
Forgot to add this to the good:

-He's not Dion Waiters
Click to expand...

I wouldn't count those chickens just yet. If the rumors of Waiters flying in to meet us this weekend are true, then that's something we may have scheduled knowing we were talking to Afflalo and Lee.
 
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