Vertical Sources: Memphis has agreed to a two-year, guaranteed $6M deal with free agent James Ennis. He averaged 15.9PPG to finish '15-16.
Should this be the same for Seth? Ennis has jumped around the league a bit, and he's 26. Curry has jumped all over the league, and he'll also be 26. Both are also still unproven.
Vertical Sources: Memphis has agreed to a two-year, guaranteed $6M deal with free agent James Ennis. He averaged 15.9PPG to finish '15-16.
Should this be the same for Seth? Ennis has jumped around the league a bit, and he's 26. Curry has jumped all over the league, and he'll also be 26. Both are also still unproven.
We were a fringe contender at best. Portland surprised people by doing as well as they did, but Memphis, Dallas and Houston were all expected to make the play offs. That left us competing with Portland, Utah, and New Orleans for a possible 8th seed. A low play off seed was arguably the ceiling for last year's team and they would have been swept by any of the top four seeds. Harsh, but true.
This year are we really a play off contender with our roster in its existing state?
Collison, Afflalo, Gay, WCS, Cousins
Bench: McLemore, Richardson, Butler, Casspi, Toliver, Koufos, Papa, Skal
Being totally honest I don't think we've improved enough to make a major case for being consider a legitimate play off contender. The top four will remain play off teams. Portland have strengthened. Memphis have strengthened. Houston have added pieces and Harden will carry them as long as he's healthy. Utah have got better and are on the brink of being a very good team. Most expected Minnesota to improve under Thibs, and possibly the Pelicans as well if their line up can stay healthy. In a best case scenario we are a fringe contender for the 8th seed but no more than that and additions like Afflalo and Toliver aren't really good enough to push us into being considered a legitimate play off contender. Like last year, we are on the fringes at best.
This year are we really a play off contender with our roster in its existing state?
Collison, Afflalo, Gay, WCS, Cousins
Bench: McLemore, Richardson, Butler, Casspi, Toliver, Koufos, Papa, Skal
Being totally honest I don't think we've improved enough to make a major case for being consider a legitimate play off contender. The top four will remain play off teams. Portland have strengthened. Memphis have strengthened. Houston have added pieces and Harden will carry them as long as he's healthy. Utah have got better and are on the brink of being a very good team. Most expected Minnesota to improve under Thibs, and possibly the Pelicans as well if their line up can stay healthy. In a best case scenario we are a fringe contender for the 8th seed but no more than that and additions like Afflalo and Toliver aren't really good enough to push us into being considered a legitimate play off contender. Like last year, we are on the fringes at best.
Er, we're barely 2 weeks into the active part of the summer. This is hardly the final roster. you also left off the biggest acquisition: Joerger. And we still have $14mil to spend in free agency. That's another major player not on your lists. It seems likely Gay is going to be traded, so that's going to change things up. Curry is a restricted free agent, meaning we have every chance to keep him, etc. That roster list you have there is not realistic.
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Lee gone, Hill gone and we still don't have a single solid perimeter defender. I just don't get it. For the second season in a row it's clear as day, which type of players we desperately need, but instead we sign the likes of Marco Bellinelli or old Afflalo, who sadly isn't the same player he once was (though I really hope I'm wrong on that).
It's getting harder and harder to keep the hopes up for what may very well be Cousins last season in SAC.
Smart thing we already set ourselves up for the full scale rebuild with all the young upside players and the way we constructed Afflalos and Tollivers contract.
It's getting harder and harder to keep the hopes up for what may very well be Cousins last season in SAC.
Smart thing we already set ourselves up for the full scale rebuild with all the young upside players and the way we constructed Afflalos and Tollivers contract.
Not sure I get this! Afflalo is old but Lee is not despite both being the same age?!
Look there is no doubt that we went after Lee and Anderson but smartly decided not to give that long term and lucrative deals. No doubt the signings have been a bit underwhelming but we still have enough room for a good player and there are still trades to get done. Let's look at the roster in a couple of months.
While both signings are not sexy they both are additions of something we didn't have last year. A role playing stretch 4 that will hit open shots and a steady veteran SG. We did have Bellineli but he decided not to show up.
Both of these deals are basically stop gap solutions for 12 months before we go hunting again next season in the FA where the class is a bit better and we are hopefully going to have some stability with coach Joerger going forward. Who knows, maybe in 12 months time, Sacramento is a lot more attractive location for free agents. Especially if we manage to get to play offs. There is still a whole summer to finalize the roster. I am not going to get stressed a couple of weeks in but if this is the roster we head into next season then there is EVERY reason to be concerned.
Look there is no doubt that we went after Lee and Anderson but smartly decided not to give that long term and lucrative deals. No doubt the signings have been a bit underwhelming but we still have enough room for a good player and there are still trades to get done. Let's look at the roster in a couple of months.
While both signings are not sexy they both are additions of something we didn't have last year. A role playing stretch 4 that will hit open shots and a steady veteran SG. We did have Bellineli but he decided not to show up.
Both of these deals are basically stop gap solutions for 12 months before we go hunting again next season in the FA where the class is a bit better and we are hopefully going to have some stability with coach Joerger going forward. Who knows, maybe in 12 months time, Sacramento is a lot more attractive location for free agents. Especially if we manage to get to play offs. There is still a whole summer to finalize the roster. I am not going to get stressed a couple of weeks in but if this is the roster we head into next season then there is EVERY reason to be concerned.
Yep -Afflalo is old, Lee is not 
I know they are both 30, but from the games I watched it just seems to be the harsh truth. Now Afflalo still is the much more skilled player, but grit, mindset, defense speak for Lee.
And yes I understand, that those contracts are stopgaps, but right now I'm losing patience. We all have been patient year after year after year. There were solid FA's on the market, that would have helped us, but we decided not to overpay or were not considered by those guys ( and with solid FA I don't mean Ryan Anderson).
We have a role playing SG in Ben and I'm actually not sure Afflalo is an upgrade over him. We already have stretch 4, who is much more talented than Tolliver - Omri Casspi.
And stability with Joerger means we finally make the PO's. But Joerger is no magician. He can only coach defense, when he has willing, solid defenders. He can only hinder the opponent, if the roster is able to do it.
Right now I'm expecting teams like the damn Warriors to run circles around our guys, dropping 3 after 3.
And that basically means my wife will mock me all season long, how pathetic the Kings are and how I should join her to follow the Warriors. And I can't stand this any longer....
I know they are both 30, but from the games I watched it just seems to be the harsh truth. Now Afflalo still is the much more skilled player, but grit, mindset, defense speak for Lee.
And yes I understand, that those contracts are stopgaps, but right now I'm losing patience. We all have been patient year after year after year. There were solid FA's on the market, that would have helped us, but we decided not to overpay or were not considered by those guys ( and with solid FA I don't mean Ryan Anderson).
We have a role playing SG in Ben and I'm actually not sure Afflalo is an upgrade over him. We already have stretch 4, who is much more talented than Tolliver - Omri Casspi.
And stability with Joerger means we finally make the PO's. But Joerger is no magician. He can only coach defense, when he has willing, solid defenders. He can only hinder the opponent, if the roster is able to do it.
Right now I'm expecting teams like the damn Warriors to run circles around our guys, dropping 3 after 3.
And that basically means my wife will mock me all season long, how pathetic the Kings are and how I should join her to follow the Warriors. And I can't stand this any longer....
I really do not agree with you. We now have 4 players on rookie contracts (Papa, Skal, Malachi and IC + BenMc if you want) and Bogdanovic coming in on a "moderate" (rookie ++) contract. The signings of this year are clearly for bridging the rookies into the system. Seth is there anchored and probably for a very reasonable price. There's still money left for signing a good PG. On top of that, Rudy and BenMc can be used for trade(s) from a very good negotiation position.
Secondly, I'm seeing Vlade preparing for a situation that DMC leaves. There's a number of bigs in development and I am still a firm believer that Willie will become a $100 mil player (if Mozgov got $64 mil, it may even be an underestimation). As is, this is already a playoff team. I'm really satisfied.
Secondly, I'm seeing Vlade preparing for a situation that DMC leaves. There's a number of bigs in development and I am still a firm believer that Willie will become a $100 mil player (if Mozgov got $64 mil, it may even be an underestimation). As is, this is already a playoff team. I'm really satisfied.
The one thing we agree on is that Vlade is preparing for a situation without DMC, which may be a good thing, because even if we crack the PO's, we most likely would be a first round exit and this might not be enough to convince Cousins to stay in SAC.
There is still money left for a good PG, but there aren't any good PG's left to sign.
Rudy is not a huge trade chip, because he is not what teams are looking for at the SF spot.
Ben won't be traded. I think Joerger talking about how this is the biggest year in Ben's career and how he likes it that Ben is already working out, means we keep Ben and hope Joerger can help him.
I liked our draft trade, because Vlade got us much needed upside. But I thought we would use the cheap rookie deals of those guys, to get the capspace to go hard after guys, who would help us now in FA. So far this hasn't happended at all.
This means we are in the same position as every year. We are hoping for the next season, hoping for one of those guys to make an impact. It get's old....
Kudos to you guys, who never let the hope down. Great fans!
There is still money left for a good PG, but there aren't any good PG's left to sign.
Rudy is not a huge trade chip, because he is not what teams are looking for at the SF spot.
Ben won't be traded. I think Joerger talking about how this is the biggest year in Ben's career and how he likes it that Ben is already working out, means we keep Ben and hope Joerger can help him.
I liked our draft trade, because Vlade got us much needed upside. But I thought we would use the cheap rookie deals of those guys, to get the capspace to go hard after guys, who would help us now in FA. So far this hasn't happended at all.
This means we are in the same position as every year. We are hoping for the next season, hoping for one of those guys to make an impact. It get's old....
Kudos to you guys, who never let the hope down. Great fans!
As I have said before, if we don't pull off any significant free agent moves or trades, this roster has a fairly limited ceiling. Obviously in an ideal world Joerger is going to be a huge boost to this team, I have said that before as well. Time will tell how much of an effect he has on this team and whether he will get that long term chance to put in place what he wants. With my Kings hat on I am always optimistic that we are going to return to the glory days. But when i take that off and look at things from a detached position (as best as humanly possible), that often gives a different picture to what I see with my Kings hat on because I often look at things through rose-tinted glasses.
Now if we trade Rudy Gay for a good return, great, and that could be a player that is ready to contribute to the team or for future assets if we are looking that way. But if we are swapping one streaky player for another streaky player (ie Rudy Gay for Monta Ellis), then that is swapping a good but flawed SF for a good but flawed combo guard. I guess Monta can fill PG duties but he's always been "better" at SG and even then he's always been a high volume shooter who doesn't do much defensively. It is a typical Kings addition. We simply love to take on flawed players and hope we can polish them into diamonds. Now maybe Joerger can work some magic and do just that. But without some major moves from Vlade, it is going to be a tough job for Joerger to turn this roster into anything more than a first round play off team that gets swept. Maybe that's enough for some. Maybe it will be enough in two years time to persuade Cousins to stay. But if that's our ceiling, we have put ourselves into that position no team ever wants to be in the league.
Like you say, we are two weeks in and there's lots of time to improve the roster and the outlook of this team. Fingers crossed Vlade does some wheeling and dealing and this roster looks a lot more positive a week from now. But as it stands, Joerger is going to need to replicate what he did in Memphis last year if we are to get to .500 or better next season. Early days, but our roster doesn't jump out as anything special.
Now if we trade Rudy Gay for a good return, great, and that could be a player that is ready to contribute to the team or for future assets if we are looking that way. But if we are swapping one streaky player for another streaky player (ie Rudy Gay for Monta Ellis), then that is swapping a good but flawed SF for a good but flawed combo guard. I guess Monta can fill PG duties but he's always been "better" at SG and even then he's always been a high volume shooter who doesn't do much defensively. It is a typical Kings addition. We simply love to take on flawed players and hope we can polish them into diamonds. Now maybe Joerger can work some magic and do just that. But without some major moves from Vlade, it is going to be a tough job for Joerger to turn this roster into anything more than a first round play off team that gets swept. Maybe that's enough for some. Maybe it will be enough in two years time to persuade Cousins to stay. But if that's our ceiling, we have put ourselves into that position no team ever wants to be in the league.
Like you say, we are two weeks in and there's lots of time to improve the roster and the outlook of this team. Fingers crossed Vlade does some wheeling and dealing and this roster looks a lot more positive a week from now. But as it stands, Joerger is going to need to replicate what he did in Memphis last year if we are to get to .500 or better next season. Early days, but our roster doesn't jump out as anything special.
Yep -Afflalo is old, Lee is not
I know they are both 30, but from the games I watched it just seems to be the harsh truth. Now Afflalo still is the much more skilled player, but grit, mindset, defense speak for Lee.
And yes I understand, that those contracts are stopgaps, but right now I'm losing patience. We all have been patient year after year after year. There were solid FA's on the market, that would have helped us, but we decided not to overpay or were not considered by those guys ( and with solid FA I don't mean Ryan Anderson).
We have a role playing SG in Ben and I'm actually not sure Afflalo is an upgrade over him. We already have stretch 4, who is much more talented than Tolliver - Omri Casspi.
And stability with Joerger means we finally make the PO's. But Joerger is no magician. He can only coach defense, when he has willing, solid defenders. He can only hinder the opponent, if the roster is able to do it.
Right now I'm expecting teams like the damn Warriors to run circles around our guys, dropping 3 after 3.
And that basically means my wife will mock me all season long, how pathetic the Kings are and how I should join her to follow the Warriors. And I can't stand this any longer....
I know they are both 30, but from the games I watched it just seems to be the harsh truth. Now Afflalo still is the much more skilled player, but grit, mindset, defense speak for Lee.
And yes I understand, that those contracts are stopgaps, but right now I'm losing patience. We all have been patient year after year after year. There were solid FA's on the market, that would have helped us, but we decided not to overpay or were not considered by those guys ( and with solid FA I don't mean Ryan Anderson).
We have a role playing SG in Ben and I'm actually not sure Afflalo is an upgrade over him. We already have stretch 4, who is much more talented than Tolliver - Omri Casspi.
And stability with Joerger means we finally make the PO's. But Joerger is no magician. He can only coach defense, when he has willing, solid defenders. He can only hinder the opponent, if the roster is able to do it.
Right now I'm expecting teams like the damn Warriors to run circles around our guys, dropping 3 after 3.
And that basically means my wife will mock me all season long, how pathetic the Kings are and how I should join her to follow the Warriors. And I can't stand this any longer....
This is the first real time where Vlade gets to pick his own coach that shares his vision. He has a cap guru whose presence is evident even with these signings. First thing he needed to address is to get the coach. He did that. Then he needed to address the lack of young talent on the roster and years of blown 1st round picks. He tried to do that with the draft day trades and draft picks. By doing that he created more tradeable assets.
Collison's domestic violence charges threw a spanner in the works. He might have been using Collison as a trade chip. We don't know but we do know that we need to add a PG before the season starts regardless.
We have had NO production from SG when gerbil decided to give away Tyreke Evans for chump change. Then he proceeded to give away IT for nothing. He demolished the little talent base we had.
Now Divac has to replenish it and balance it out to the point where he improves the team heading into next season using cap space and trades AND replenish the youth coming through.
We are two weeks into the real offseason. Let's wait and see what he does. I truly believe that he has NOT given up on DeMarcus and I am certain that both Vlade and coach Joerger and Vivek for that matter want to build around DMC. We just need to be very smart about it. Its a really difficult job that Vlade has. He needs to give us a chance to make the play off starting next season but making the play offs is not enough. It has to be sustainable play off run with consistent improvement year after year. He has a hell of a lot of work to do and all that while trying to change perception around the league and convince players, agents and media that the franchise has turned the corner and is not disfunctional.
I am nervous about trading Gay but I am not totally opposed to the idea. It depends on what we are getting in return but we are on the clock. Room for error is almost nonexistant but there is plenty of time to do a lot of work before the training camp.
But all I expected was the defensive side of the ball to be adressed in FA. That's hardly some kind of miracle.
You have a very positive way to interpret these things. Right now I wish I could agree with you, but I just can't.
That's hardly some kind of miracle.You have a very positive way to interpret these things. Right now I wish I could agree with you, but I just can't.
He went after Lee, didn't get him. Vlade wants to build for next season but also for the future and sustained success. Giving Lee a 4 year deal is not exactly fitting into that picture.
I know I will get slammed for this but with coach Malone trio of Cousins, Gay, Collison was the basis of the team that started the season 9-6 and looked to be moving inthe right direction. That team had no depth not bench. This team even as it is currently constructed is better than that team. Still a long way off where it needs to be but it is not as bad and Karl made them look last year.
Part of me hopes we bring the same top 8-9 player back for next season and prove people wrong by making the play offs. This years team severely underachieved.
It's tempting, but I won't go down the Malone route again.
I don't think this years team underachieved as much as we like to hope. I think the weakness of this team got exposed badly. And so far we did nothing to cover that weakness.
It's not like Lee is Methusalem. He is 30 years old, healthy and still looks hungry enough to make an impact.
And when you believe Lee is too old, why not go after Hill or Harkless instead? I still don't get it. We spend 8 millions on Tolliver, who has one impact skill, but 13 millions for Hill, who impacts the game in so many ways, is too much?
I don't think this years team underachieved as much as we like to hope. I think the weakness of this team got exposed badly. And so far we did nothing to cover that weakness.
It's not like Lee is Methusalem. He is 30 years old, healthy and still looks hungry enough to make an impact.
And when you believe Lee is too old, why not go after Hill or Harkless instead? I still don't get it. We spend 8 millions on Tolliver, who has one impact skill, but 13 millions for Hill, who impacts the game in so many ways, is too much?
Yep -Afflalo is old, Lee is not
I know they are both 30, but from the games I watched it just seems to be the harsh truth. Now Afflalo still is the much more skilled player, but grit, mindset, defense speak for Lee.
And yes I understand, that those contracts are stopgaps, but right now I'm losing patience. We all have been patient year after year after year. There were solid FA's on the market, that would have helped us, but we decided not to overpay or were not considered by those guys ( and with solid FA I don't mean Ryan Anderson).
We have a role playing SG in Ben and I'm actually not sure Afflalo is an upgrade over him. We already have stretch 4, who is much more talented than Tolliver - Omri Casspi.
And stability with Joerger means we finally make the PO's. But Joerger is no magician. He can only coach defense, when he has willing, solid defenders. He can only hinder the opponent, if the roster is able to do it.
Right now I'm expecting teams like the damn Warriors to run circles around our guys, dropping 3 after 3.
And that basically means my wife will mock me all season long, how pathetic the Kings are and how I should join her to follow the Warriors. And I can't stand this any longer....
I know they are both 30, but from the games I watched it just seems to be the harsh truth. Now Afflalo still is the much more skilled player, but grit, mindset, defense speak for Lee.
And yes I understand, that those contracts are stopgaps, but right now I'm losing patience. We all have been patient year after year after year. There were solid FA's on the market, that would have helped us, but we decided not to overpay or were not considered by those guys ( and with solid FA I don't mean Ryan Anderson).
We have a role playing SG in Ben and I'm actually not sure Afflalo is an upgrade over him. We already have stretch 4, who is much more talented than Tolliver - Omri Casspi.
And stability with Joerger means we finally make the PO's. But Joerger is no magician. He can only coach defense, when he has willing, solid defenders. He can only hinder the opponent, if the roster is able to do it.
Right now I'm expecting teams like the damn Warriors to run circles around our guys, dropping 3 after 3.
And that basically means my wife will mock me all season long, how pathetic the Kings are and how I should join her to follow the Warriors. And I can't stand this any longer....
Getting into the PO's like this is a big IF. And not getting into the PO will mean more drama and most likely a "superstar" on his way out next summer or, given enough drama, at the trade deadline.
Of course we will see what the plan is within a month.
But last year was a down year in the West with a lot of teams struggling and we still weren't able to reach the PO's. That's something to be considered, when thinking about the future and trying to be positive about it.
Of course we will see what the plan is within a month.
But last year was a down year in the West with a lot of teams struggling and we still weren't able to reach the PO's. That's something to be considered, when thinking about the future and trying to be positive about it.
The one thing we agree on is that Vlade is preparing for a situation without DMC, which may be a good thing, because even if we crack the PO's, we most likely would be a first round exit and this might not be enough to convince Cousins to stay in SAC.
There is still money left for a good PG, but there aren't any good PG's left to sign.
Rudy is not a huge trade chip, because he is not what teams are looking for at the SF spot.
Ben won't be traded. I think Joerger talking about how this is the biggest year in Ben's career and how he likes it that Ben is already working out, means we keep Ben and hope Joerger can help him.
I liked our draft trade, because Vlade got us much needed upside. But I thought we would use the cheap rookie deals of those guys, to get the capspace to go hard after guys, who would help us now in FA. So far this hasn't happended at all.
This means we are in the same position as every year. We are hoping for the next season, hoping for one of those guys to make an impact. It get's old....
Kudos to you guys, who never let the hope down. Great fans!
There is still money left for a good PG, but there aren't any good PG's left to sign.
Rudy is not a huge trade chip, because he is not what teams are looking for at the SF spot.
Ben won't be traded. I think Joerger talking about how this is the biggest year in Ben's career and how he likes it that Ben is already working out, means we keep Ben and hope Joerger can help him.
I liked our draft trade, because Vlade got us much needed upside. But I thought we would use the cheap rookie deals of those guys, to get the capspace to go hard after guys, who would help us now in FA. So far this hasn't happended at all.
This means we are in the same position as every year. We are hoping for the next season, hoping for one of those guys to make an impact. It get's old....
Kudos to you guys, who never let the hope down. Great fans!
Thanks for the two last sentences
! I really believe that this team can make it and at this stage I don't care if it a 1st round exit as long as we keep progressing. I feel that the talent is there and the problems are mostly mental.
It's tempting, but I won't go down the Malone route again.
I don't think this years team underachieved as much as we like to hope. I think the weakness of this team got exposed badly. And so far we did nothing to cover that weakness.
It's not like Lee is Methusalem. He is 30 years old, healthy and still looks hungry enough to make an impact.
And when you believe Lee is too old, why not go after Hill or Harkless instead? I still don't get it. We spend 8 millions on Tolliver, who has one impact skill, but 13 millions for Hill, who impacts the game in so many ways, is too much?
I don't think this years team underachieved as much as we like to hope. I think the weakness of this team got exposed badly. And so far we did nothing to cover that weakness.
It's not like Lee is Methusalem. He is 30 years old, healthy and still looks hungry enough to make an impact.
And when you believe Lee is too old, why not go after Hill or Harkless instead? I still don't get it. We spend 8 millions on Tolliver, who has one impact skill, but 13 millions for Hill, who impacts the game in so many ways, is too much?
It just occurred to me that Dallas giving Barnes a crippling max deal offer may be a good chance to trade Gay to the Warriors for Iguodala and Livingston. Essentially all these players are on their last contract year (Rudy has a player option). It would be good for both teams. The Warriors do not have to overpay Barnes and preserve their cap flexibility (they have to max Curry next year anyway) and get a better SF than Barnes. The Kings get a very solid (and tall) PG and a great 3&D wing. Iguodala could start either at SG or SF position depending how Joerger plans his rotation. Livingston does not shoot 3-pointers, so I would probably start Iquodala at SG and Casspi at SF to keep the outside threat. That lineup (DMC and Willie the others) would also be defensively extremely strong totally controlling the boards in both ends of the court.
Thanks for the two last sentences! I really believe that this team can make it and at this stage I don't care if it a 1st round exit as long as we keep progressing. I feel that the talent is there and the problems are mostly mental.
Thanks for the two last sentences
! I really believe that this team can make it and at this stage I don't care if it a 1st round exit as long as we keep progressing. I feel that the talent is there and the problems are mostly mental.