Francisco Garcia is a bum

[Bricklayer]

please, name a few, and show me some stats to back that up.

While I consider this neither here nor there because I will virtually GUARANTEE 2 or 3 of the later sleepers will be better in a few years (but I do not know which ones)...how about the guy drafted immediately after him? Mr. Head. Got the better of Cisco in college, is off to a far more inspiring start int eh pros, and just hit another huge clutch shot for the Rockets tongiht.

Again, neither here nor there as I think there is a decent chance for Cisco to be better than Head eventually, but you asked for names.

 

[natedizzle]

Furthermore, those that are perplexed at criticism of Garcia as he is only a "rookie" should take into account that the Kings were counting on him and Martin to contribute significantly-(thus the loss of Mo Evans). The Kings must have believed that he was capable of making a significant contribution so why is it wrong for us to expect a higher level of play than what we have seen from him so far.

 

[Bricklayer]

Furthermore, those that are perplexed at criticism of Garcia as he is only a "rookie" should take into account that the Kings were counting on him and Martin to contribute significantly-(thus the loss of Mo Evans). The Kings must have believed that he was capable of making a significant contribution so why is it wrong for us to hold him expect a higher level of play than what we have seen from him so far.

I am again wondering just how long/how much of this before people begin to start tracing back the questions to their origin...the GM.

Maybe he was right, maybe wrong, but seems a little odd to blame the kids for expectations that were created by the GM more or less simply miscalculating how ready they were for the NBA.

 

[kennadog]

But isn't part of the issue not expecting significant contributions, but the fact that they would likely get nearly zero chance to get in a game if Mo was still here? So how would you ever know what they could be capable of or if they could develop? With Mo, you pretty know what you have in a 27 year old player. Not a star and not likely ever a starter, I wouldn't think.

 

[ONEZERO]

Screw you man! You suck for bringing this idea up. What are you retarded or something?!

For a second there I was about to.......

 

[AriesMar27]

please, name a few, and show me some stats to back that up.

salim stoudamire-10.6 ppg
luther head-9.5
martell webster 8.8

im too lazy to look for everyone and i dont know how to copy and paste on this board, for some reason it doesnt work for me.... is there an icon or something? but drafting salim or head would have been much better than drafting garcia and trading for hart.....

 

[BMiller52]

salim stoudamire-10.6 ppg
luther head-9.5
martell webster 8.8

im too lazy to look for everyone and i dont know how to copy and paste on this board, for some reason it doesnt work for me.... is there an icon or something? but drafting salim or head would have been much better than drafting garcia and trading for hart.....

Martell webster is averaging 5 ppg and was the 7th pick...

 

[Kingsgurl]

but drafting salim or head would have been much better than drafting garcia and trading for hart.....

Well, except we didn't trade for Hart

 

[Ryle]

Well, except we didn't trade for Hart

Yes we did but it only cost us a second round pick.

 

[Kingsgurl]

Oh yea! Forgot about that. Losing that second round pick will probably set us back years.

 

[AriesMar27]

Oh yea! Forgot about that. Losing that second round pick will probably set us back years.

well he wouldnt be here and thats what i was trying to say....

 

[KP]

Rookie or no rookie, second year player or no second year player, limited minutes or no limited minutes, with everything I heard coming from our GM and the rest of management this summer... Martin, Garcia, and Hart have all been disapointments this year, and I'm not sure if that will change anytime soon.

On the other hand our bench as a whole has been a disapointment and there is really only one person you can blame for that....

 

[VF21]

I cannot believe some of the stuff I read in this thread - and yes, I read every single post.

I think the calmer, more rational heads have already said everything I would have said, so I'll just make one small comment:

It hurts my heart to see "fans" calling any of our own players names simply because the player hasn't lived up YET to the fan's expectations. You think the player - in this case Garcia - wants to go out there and do poorly? God forbid any of you SO down on Garcia ever have to face the kind of irrational wrath that has been expressed by some on this board...

 

[thesanityannex]

salim stoudamire-10.6 ppg
luther head-9.5
martell webster 8.8

im too lazy to look for everyone and i dont know how to copy and paste on this board, for some reason it doesnt work for me.... is there an icon or something? but drafting salim or head would have been much better than drafting garcia and trading for hart.....

salim stoudamire 21.6 mpg
luther head 26.4 mpg
martell webster 14.7 mpg
francisco garcia 15.9 mpg


why not throw in mpg, or what that ruin your whole point.

 

[PFFFT!!]

I thought I saw Francisco panhandling over on J street.

 

[sloter]

While I consider this neither here nor there because I will virtually GUARANTEE 2 or 3 of the later sleepers will be better in a few years (but I do not know which ones)...how about the guy drafted immediately after him? Mr. Head. Got the better of Cisco in college, is off to a far more inspiring start int eh pros, and just hit another huge clutch shot for the Rockets tongiht.

Sorry, Brick, but this statement is ridicilous. First, Illinois won that game because of Deron Williams, and not Luther Head. Second, Head is not nearly as talented as Garcia. The only difference between the two players so far: defined role and consistent playing time for Mr. Head.
Adelman seems to be notorious for creating headcases out of players new to the league: Hedo, Wallace, Cisco, Martin, and even Pedja have all underperformed for him in their first few years in the NBA.

 

[SLAB]

I'm an extreme Fransisco Garcia homer...And proud of it.

But I really think once this guy is able to make his shot at a semi-reliable clip (Come on, the guy was a shooter in college, it just doesn't disappear completly...He still has it in him) his game will flourish...He has natural instincts for the game...He is an excellent passer and penetrator...Once he knocks down a few J's for confidence, he will be able to take his game to a new height...

Hit shots = Tighter defence
Tighter defence = Easier penetration
Easier penetration = Possible lay-ups and assisst opportunites.
Possible lay-up and assist opportunities = D backing up a bit
D backing up a bit = Hit shots

And repeat.

...I know it's not that easy, but I think once Cisco proves to hit his outside shot, he will flourish.

 

[sloter]

Cisco will be OK. I just wish he puts on a couple of pounds.

 

[SkinnerBox]

You'd think Kings fans would be a little bit better at supporting a struggling team. This is sad.

 

[BMiller52]

[sarcasm]Yup that Garcia guy is a bum no matter how you slice it. I mean he's a rookie, he should be putting up lebron numbers. Rookies are like the most reliable players in this sport, and garcia is not reliable. LET'S BURN HIS HOUSE DOWN[sarcasm]

 

[Bricklayer]

Look, its early yet, but "being a rookie" is only a limited defense.

There are 20 rookies averaging more points than Cisco is.

There are 43 rookies shooting better than Cisco is.

If he shoots 34% for the whole year, his future on this team and in the league will be in serious doubt. He simply has to figure it out and start hitting some shots. 34% is not an NBA ready number. Had hoped that his starts for Peja would steady him and get him going, but he's going the other way again. When that happened with Kevin after his career game, iot eventually benched him. Could well happen with Garcia too if he doesn't pick it up, although if neither Kevin or Garcia can get it done, I don't know who else we have to play.

 

[SLAB]

I think Cisco will continue to keep getting the minutes.

Despite not being able to shoot into the ocean, he has all the intangibles...Kevin doesn't...Cisco can bring it up, and dish it out rather nicley...Unfortunatly he really has no one to dish it off to with out second unit out there.

Also, it does seem he isn't forcing as many shots lately...HE may be going 0-2 every game, but that's only two possesions where he throws up shots...

And the last thing that I like about Fransisco...He doesn't seem to get rattled...Sure he's shooting horribly, but he's just not dissapearing. He seems to have a demeanor about him...And I like that a lot.

 

[sloter]

Could well happen with Garcia too if he doesn't pick it up, although if neither Kevin or Garcia can get it done, I don't know who else we have to play.

Unless the trades reshuffle the team, those are our only 2 options, and I prefer Cisco.

 

[BigWaxer]

Interesting to read his scouting report from Lville on ESPN. Just a look back and I think we have seen some of this when he was starting for Peja. Can't call the guy a bum when he gets limited minutes with the second team.

Scouting Report: One of the best college basketball players in the nation ... Great free throw shooter, can be relied on to help close out games ... Moves well off the ball ... Curls off baseline screens for the catch and shoot ... Has incredibly soft touch ... A prolific 3-point shooter, one of the best in the country ... Doesn't bother taking a dribble on the catch and shoot, gets his feet set before he gets his hands on the ball ... Takes some poor shots off the dribble ... Doesn't have tremendous speed, so he will have trouble getting shots going to the bucket against players who can match his length ... Hates mixing it up inside ... A poor rebounder ... Long arms and size help him to block a lot of shots against perimeter players, or come from the weakside and stuff interior opponents ... A fabulous passer, enabling him to be a point-forward ... His need to gain strength is an obvious one, although he has made some strides in that area.

 

[owensborocard32]

I was trying to stay away from this thread for obvious reasons....
However, saying Head got the best of Garcia in college is insane. They played against each other once and Cisco wasn't really checking Head. Deron Williams was the guy checking Cisco. If i recall Deron got the best of alot of people last year. One game does not equal getting the best of someone. If you look back at when Cisco was starting while Peja was injured, everyone seemed pretty pleased with Cisco's play. He was scoring around 10 a game and doing other things as well. Now he's getting 10-12 minutes a game and alot of people are wanting him to score 15 points per? His shot has definitely been off, no question. I have news for you, he wasn't a "shooter in college". He was a streaky shooter. When he's on, he's on. If not, well he'll have to find his shots or create for others. As i recall, the last game Cisco had 5 boards and our starting forwards COMBINED for 4 boards. With this team right now, all you can ask is that they have heart and show some hustle. I would say Cisco is up there in that category. He has almost as many blocks on the season as our center and if had played 20-25 minutes per game, he would probably be our leading shot blocker. That is sad from a team perspective but at least it shows the rook is out there trying to play defense and hustle. I would like to see Cisco's FG% higher but i would guess if he were getting as many minutes as some of the rookies listed in this thread, his numbers would be comparable. As everyone always says, the NBA game is different than the college game. Cisco is still learning that. Call it an excuse or whatever you like but it's a fact. He's a rookie and just like almost every rookie before him, he's learning....

 

[VF21]

Yes, Garcia is a rookie. And just like every other rookie, he's going to be praised when he does good and criticized when he doesn't. That's part and parcel of message boards and fandom in general.

Garcia needs to learn sooner rather than later to play within the game instead of jacking up so many errant shots. His FG% could be higher? Good lord. He's got the lowest % of anyone on the bench. For someone who is supposed to be a shooter, that's NOT GOOD. I personally think a lot of his problem is he simply forgets to play within the scheme of things.

Remember, this isn't college. It's the NBA, and he's on a team with very knowledgeable fans who know what a good shooter looks like. Love him or hate him, Peja set the bar for good shooting insanely high and someone who jacks up bad shots time after time isn't going to get over that bar.

Heart and hustle, unfortunately, isn't enough. If it was, Mateen Cleaves would still be a King.

--------------------------------

One other request? I know when you're responding with passion, it's easy to just write sentence after sentence. If you'd break for a couple of paragraphs, it would sure make your comments easier to read.



GO KINGS!!! EVERY SINGLE ONE OF THEM!!!!!

 

[owensborocard32]

For someone who is supposed to be a shooter

He's a shooter alright. But once again, a streaky shooter..,always has been.

Remember, this isn't college. It's the NBA

I believe that is what i said above....

Heart and hustle, unfortunately, isn't enough.

True, but this team could use a dose of it.

--------------------------------

One other request? I know when you're responding with passion, it's easy to just write sentence after sentence. If you'd break for a couple of paragraphs, it would sure make your comments easier to read.

No one wants to read my comments anyhoo......

 

[VF21]

????

What people want is for the Kings to win.

What people want is for the bench to produce.

If Garcia can help, more power to him. He has shown sparks, so far, but most of us aren't viewing him from your perspective. From what WE'VE seen of him thus far, he's a work in progress. You don't seem to understand that. We're not bashing him, we're simply judging by what we've seen. College performances mean nothing, and moreso when most of us never saw him.

The team has gotten a BIG DOSE of heart and hustle lately. He's called Bonzi Wells and he's pretty much saved a lot of the fanbase from jumping off the nearest cliff.

I realize when you're reading this that it probably sounds like I'm angry or arging or something. I'm not. I have been a Kings fan since 1985. With me, it's the name on the front FIRST and then the name on the back.

I do not agree with people who bash Cisco, or any other player, but I do understand the frustration of watching our entire bench - including Garcia - come out and simply not do what the Kings benches of recent memory have done.

We're all here for the same thing though, in the end.

We want the Kings to win.

GO KINGS!!!

 

[owensborocard32]

You post as if i am a new Kings fan. I've been watching the Kings since 98-99.
I have seen Cisco since the day he arrived on Campus at UofL. Is he a work in progress? Yes. So is just about every rookie. However....

We're not bashing him

Seeing a thread with the title "Francisco Garcia is a bum" is not player bashing? I know two members of his family that actually visit this board and I am sure they would disagree.

With me, it's the name on the front FIRST and then the name on the back.

And it's not with me? I am pulling for him obviously but the W's are what counts.

 

[BigWaxer]

OB32 I think VF along with some of us older fans and members at Kingsfans have said WTH to this thread and title if you look back.

I cannot speak for them but comments from myself, brick, VF and other specifically state that calling cisco a bum is BS. Not sure I can put it any clearer then that. Its crap to judge a rookie drafted at his position IMO. I sure hope nobody thought he would come in here and tear up the NBA. He is a RAW talent IMO, lots of skills and now needs to put in the work.