Fox/Bogi works. Why not Fox/Luka? (split)
- Thread starter Joshoua
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The takes people are giving on why Doncic wouldn't work here are getting more odd by the day. Kings fans love Bogie but for whatever reason, Doncic just wouldn't work despite being a nearly identical player who is just bigger and better.
A new hot take is Doncic and Fox would never reach their ceilings next to each other. You do realize that their minutes would be staggered so you'd always have a really good ball handler on the court right? Meaning no Yogi or Mason iffy offensive sets.
Fox doesn't run every single play when he's on the court. The Kings run a lot of plays through WCS, Bogie and Hield. More than you might think. Fox doesn't dominate every possession. If you could take the ball out of the hands of WCS, Hield, Yogi and Mason and have it in the hands of Fox, Doncic and Bogdan all game....you'd have a really solid play making trio that would span 48 minutes a game. Fox and Doncic may never hit their statistical ceilings due to sharing the ball but the overall statistics of the team would go up because there would always be a constant threat running the team with no down time.
A new hot take is Doncic and Fox would never reach their ceilings next to each other. You do realize that their minutes would be staggered so you'd always have a really good ball handler on the court right? Meaning no Yogi or Mason iffy offensive sets.
Fox doesn't run every single play when he's on the court. The Kings run a lot of plays through WCS, Bogie and Hield. More than you might think. Fox doesn't dominate every possession. If you could take the ball out of the hands of WCS, Hield, Yogi and Mason and have it in the hands of Fox, Doncic and Bogdan all game....you'd have a really solid play making trio that would span 48 minutes a game. Fox and Doncic may never hit their statistical ceilings due to sharing the ball but the overall statistics of the team would go up because there would always be a constant threat running the team with no down time.
I still think Bagley is what the Kings need. Kings have way too many guards that can shoot. And if they pick Doncic, he's going to have to play SG or SF which means Buddy Hield or Bogi will have to come off the bench. On top of that, nobody on the King can fill the PF spot. Well, Bjelica can fill that spot but you have no solid backup.
Luka would had been good on the Kings too. But, I don’t think you would had seen Fox take off like he has, had he had to share the ball handling duties with Luka.
Look at DSJ, I think he has regressed playing along side Luka, because it took the ball out of his hands. He compromised his game for Luka and his game has suffered.
Fox would had been fine, but he wouldn’t be the “generational” Star We are seeing now. I think if both Luka and Fox were on the Kings, both their stats would be lower, especially Fox’s numbers.
If Fox shared ball handling duties with Luka, I think Fox averages would be down across the board, probably more like 15pts/5 asst. Luka averages would probably be down too.
Luka is obviously very good. Bagley has shown high potential too. What Vlade and company is banking on is 3 years from now, that Bagley will be the better player.
I don’t see why Bagley and Doncic can’t both wind up very high level players in the NBA.
All I know is that Fox is a very, very special player and I’m not sure he could reach his highest potential, if he had to share the ball handling duties with a ball dominant Luka. Both Fox and Luka are most effective when they are the primary ball handler.
Look at DSJ, I think he has regressed playing along side Luka, because it took the ball out of his hands. He compromised his game for Luka and his game has suffered.
Fox would had been fine, but he wouldn’t be the “generational” Star We are seeing now. I think if both Luka and Fox were on the Kings, both their stats would be lower, especially Fox’s numbers.
If Fox shared ball handling duties with Luka, I think Fox averages would be down across the board, probably more like 15pts/5 asst. Luka averages would probably be down too.
Luka is obviously very good. Bagley has shown high potential too. What Vlade and company is banking on is 3 years from now, that Bagley will be the better player.
I don’t see why Bagley and Doncic can’t both wind up very high level players in the NBA.
All I know is that Fox is a very, very special player and I’m not sure he could reach his highest potential, if he had to share the ball handling duties with a ball dominant Luka. Both Fox and Luka are most effective when they are the primary ball handler.
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I was super happy with Luka or Marvin. I suppose if Skal or Harry had shown cant miss ability then going big with Marvin might have been seen redundant especially needing a SF, but we still dont know what we have there.
Vlade and company gave them both a good look over and as far as I know both looked good but only one said he would love to be a King.
No regrets.
Vlade and company gave them both a good look over and as far as I know both looked good but only one said he would love to be a King.
No regrets.
Look Dončić would work here and as good as he has been (which is not a surprise to some of us), I think the questions we had prior to the draft are still valid. Defensive potential and his ceiling are still real questions that can only be answered in time.
I think Bagley has insane potential especially when you consider his age and rate of improvement since the start of the summer league until now.
Just remember a lot were questioning Fox this time last year and look at him now. I feel Bagley can have a similar type of jump.
I think Bagley has insane potential especially when you consider his age and rate of improvement since the start of the summer league until now.
Just remember a lot were questioning Fox this time last year and look at him now. I feel Bagley can have a similar type of jump.
This is the main issue I have with Luka.
This year he's certainly putting up gaudy offensive numbers but he's been a defensive black hole at times who's been protected by having one of the better defensive/hustle bigs behind him (Jordan), and versatile 3-and-D players (or at least formerly good 3-and-D guys) in Barnes and Matthews. Now, we've seen dudes like Harden have MVP years despite playing defense like a bronze statue but that's come in systems built exclusively to accentuate their production (i.e. surround the guy with nothing but 3-and-D dudes and literally feed him the ball on every possession).
People like to point to Houston as an example of how having two ball dominant players together could work but this season now that most of those 3-and-D guys are gone it hasn't worked at all and having a defensive sieve like Harden as the team's main focal point has led tot hem having the 27th worst defensive rating in the league.
Luka has good forward-facing lateral quickness on the offensive end a really nice handle that allows him to overcome his below average athleticism but on defense he's currently a 6'8" version of regular season Rondo, essentially just cherrypicking plays and looking for steals more than actually getting into his man. We saw the Kings exploit this possession after possession last night and I think come the postseason if the Mavs get there, it could be a major problem as the Durants/Paul Georges of the world just take his lunch money every possession.
This year he's certainly putting up gaudy offensive numbers but he's been a defensive black hole at times who's been protected by having one of the better defensive/hustle bigs behind him (Jordan), and versatile 3-and-D players (or at least formerly good 3-and-D guys) in Barnes and Matthews. Now, we've seen dudes like Harden have MVP years despite playing defense like a bronze statue but that's come in systems built exclusively to accentuate their production (i.e. surround the guy with nothing but 3-and-D dudes and literally feed him the ball on every possession).
People like to point to Houston as an example of how having two ball dominant players together could work but this season now that most of those 3-and-D guys are gone it hasn't worked at all and having a defensive sieve like Harden as the team's main focal point has led tot hem having the 27th worst defensive rating in the league.
Luka has good forward-facing lateral quickness on the offensive end a really nice handle that allows him to overcome his below average athleticism but on defense he's currently a 6'8" version of regular season Rondo, essentially just cherrypicking plays and looking for steals more than actually getting into his man. We saw the Kings exploit this possession after possession last night and I think come the postseason if the Mavs get there, it could be a major problem as the Durants/Paul Georges of the world just take his lunch money every possession.
It's almost as if you are asking him to apply consistent train of thought and logic across multiple threads........How dare you. 
Not sure what DJ is trying to accomplish with these comments
https://www.yahoo.com/sports/kings-...nk-luka-doncic-worth-no-2-pick-041855122.html
https://www.yahoo.com/sports/kings-...nk-luka-doncic-worth-no-2-pick-041855122.html
These are 2 very different timelines you're talking here.. Wiggins is signed for the next 4 seasons including this one. He is a perfect match with this team and system.... Wiggins deal is plenty palatable here... it would overlap with Marvin and Fox's rookie deals by just one and 2 seasons and he'd be plenty trade-able in those years..
The Wiggins scenario involves running the cap up in absurd fashion ASAP.. This team would go way over the limit paying Hield and Bogdan market-value 2 summers from now, then you have Fox's max deal, Harry, Justin Jackson the summer after that, and then it's Marvin after that..... If you were Vivek's daughter I could understand this position but me as a fan I don't care how much they spend, so why not spend a ton and truly go for it.
The Wiggins scenario involves running the cap up in absurd fashion ASAP.. This team would go way over the limit paying Hield and Bogdan market-value 2 summers from now, then you have Fox's max deal, Harry, Justin Jackson the summer after that, and then it's Marvin after that..... If you were Vivek's daughter I could understand this position but me as a fan I don't care how much they spend, so why not spend a ton and truly go for it.
There are plenty of ways to stagger the minutes. This Dallas game was a much better combination of those players IMO. I'd like to see him stick with something where Bogdan goes out early instead of Buddy so he can get a bit of rest before coming back in to run the show. The fact is, the team is much more dangerous with all 3 on the floor. You can see the opposing defense change when both Buddy and Bogdan are out there because that means if they get a easy spot shot opportunity you're toast. The shooting and playmaking shoots through the roof with Fox, Buddy, and Bodan together. The biggest beneficiary will be Fox because of the spacing. As it was last night.
Also, starter or not, I think Buddy and Bogdan playing significant minutes together is a wise idea. They already have chemistry. Buddy and Bogdan are always looking for each other. When you have two good shooters like that who are willing to create a quick open look for the other it's hard to cover.
Also, starter or not, I think Buddy and Bogdan playing significant minutes together is a wise idea. They already have chemistry. Buddy and Bogdan are always looking for each other. When you have two good shooters like that who are willing to create a quick open look for the other it's hard to cover.
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I'd take Bagley over Doncic again and again and again. In fact the only thing we should be potentially regretting is JJJ and I still think that Bagley will end up better. Doncic looked great last night, and will be an amazing talent. I was shocked to see him blow by guys (fox included) but goddam Marvin is perfect. I'd take a guy who can go coast to coast with a dribble, grab the ball out of the air at 12 feet plus, get back up quicker than anyone in the league, and go 9/10 at the line over anyone. Please watch the Minnesota Marvin Bagley highlights for those of you who are stuck wondering what could've been with Doncic..... Bogdan and Fox don't necessarily work as well as we seem to say imo either
when we are talking about offensive side I do think that Fox and Luka can coexist, but I think that would turn all other players into a catch and shoot or roll options, which would be a shame seeing what Buddy has become and what Bogdan can do for example.. but biggest shame would be to lose a ball movement Kings have now, not because Luka is a selfish player, he is not, but he is a ball dominant player his whole career and this is a way he plays and what he is best in..
about that, him and Bogdan are not the same.. Luka since entered first team of Real Madrid and especially after Lull injury, he is alfa dog with ball in his hands, while all other are adapting to him.. in Slovenian national team were him and Dragic, all other players were there for dirty work (maybe Randolph had usage).. Bogdan in Fenerbahce was secondary point guard, but he never had that much ball in his hands, Sloukas and Bobby Dixon had big share.. so they are not the same..
yes Kyrie and LBJ can play together, but all others are just being there and you turn Love from T-Wolves one to Cavs one over night.. at the end Kyrie wanted out.. Yes Harden, Durant and Russ coexisted, but then two of them wanted out.. Yes Harden and CP3 almost made finals, but again all others were there to do dirty work.. When you have two ball dominant players others regress and can not show potential if they have one..
Kings are better without Luka, and Luka is better without Kings.. win win situation I would say..
and if Bagley comes close to his potential than really super win situation for Kings..
about that, him and Bogdan are not the same.. Luka since entered first team of Real Madrid and especially after Lull injury, he is alfa dog with ball in his hands, while all other are adapting to him.. in Slovenian national team were him and Dragic, all other players were there for dirty work (maybe Randolph had usage).. Bogdan in Fenerbahce was secondary point guard, but he never had that much ball in his hands, Sloukas and Bobby Dixon had big share.. so they are not the same..
yes Kyrie and LBJ can play together, but all others are just being there and you turn Love from T-Wolves one to Cavs one over night.. at the end Kyrie wanted out.. Yes Harden, Durant and Russ coexisted, but then two of them wanted out.. Yes Harden and CP3 almost made finals, but again all others were there to do dirty work.. When you have two ball dominant players others regress and can not show potential if they have one..
Kings are better without Luka, and Luka is better without Kings.. win win situation I would say..
and if Bagley comes close to his potential than really super win situation for Kings..
I was on the Luka bandwagon before the draft. I wanted the Kings to draft him, he was my #1 choice, followed by Bagley a distant 2nd.
BUT, this was based off the De'Aaron Fox we saw last year. There was no way I would had seen D'Arron make such a huge leap from year 1 to 2. I didn't think he had shown enough last year to pass on Doncic as a ball handler.
Based off of De'Aaron Year 1, the Kings made a big mistake not taking Luka with the #2 pick.
Based off of De'Aaron "Freaking" Fox year 2, I can whole whole heartedly see why Vlade didn't want to take the ball out of his young PG hands. And make no mistake, I'm sure Doncic was clear to the Kings brass when they met, he wanted to be the point guard.
SO, to sum it all up. When we passed on Doncic on draft night, I was very upset. Fast forward to today, I can see why we passed on Doncic and Bagley as a better "fit" with just as much or more "upside" than Doncic.
Fox needs the ball in his hands to set the "break neck pace" that the Kings currently play at and are so good at. This "warp speed pace" is what gives the Kings the advantage most nights, that changes if Fox is not the one leading the charge. I think the speed and pace would be compromised if we had to incorporate two different ball handlers, who work at different speeds.
BUT, this was based off the De'Aaron Fox we saw last year. There was no way I would had seen D'Arron make such a huge leap from year 1 to 2. I didn't think he had shown enough last year to pass on Doncic as a ball handler.
Based off of De'Aaron Year 1, the Kings made a big mistake not taking Luka with the #2 pick.
Based off of De'Aaron "Freaking" Fox year 2, I can whole whole heartedly see why Vlade didn't want to take the ball out of his young PG hands. And make no mistake, I'm sure Doncic was clear to the Kings brass when they met, he wanted to be the point guard.
SO, to sum it all up. When we passed on Doncic on draft night, I was very upset. Fast forward to today, I can see why we passed on Doncic and Bagley as a better "fit" with just as much or more "upside" than Doncic.
Fox needs the ball in his hands to set the "break neck pace" that the Kings currently play at and are so good at. This "warp speed pace" is what gives the Kings the advantage most nights, that changes if Fox is not the one leading the charge. I think the speed and pace would be compromised if we had to incorporate two different ball handlers, who work at different speeds.
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