Fire Geoff!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
- Thread starter TheJoker
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You can't always compensate your losses with offense. Geoff is still thinking points as opposed to intangibles with constructing a balanced team.Salmons is player known to do a little bit of everything but not a master of anything, he can put the ball in the basket but he doesn't address the needs in a team total concept. Geoff is looking at running and scoring instead of Defense and R=ebounding. Bonzi brought defense and rebounding uniquely the way he plays the game at 6'5. Bonzi is like a mini charles barkely he brought a physicalness and toughness to the team that was badly needed to be able to compete in the hostility that playoff basketball brings.
What needed to be done was to get a physical player that would be able to what Bonzi could do with the traditional size and strength needed to be a physical presence in the paint which would compensate the loss of Wells. The team has enough slashers and Multiple position players to fill the role that john salmons will play.You have garcia who can slide over and play the point spot and then play 2 and 3. Kevin martin can play 2 and 3 and then you have somebody like ronny price who if given a oppurtunity can fill the role as back up point guard. The money or sign and trade thang should have been used on a interior presence however which way they could get it done.
What needed to be done was to get a physical player that would be able to what Bonzi could do with the traditional size and strength needed to be a physical presence in the paint which would compensate the loss of Wells. The team has enough slashers and Multiple position players to fill the role that john salmons will play.You have garcia who can slide over and play the point spot and then play 2 and 3. Kevin martin can play 2 and 3 and then you have somebody like ronny price who if given a oppurtunity can fill the role as back up point guard. The money or sign and trade thang should have been used on a interior presence however which way they could get it done.
There's 2-3 months left in the off-season, and Geoff/Muss have talked about wanting to improve the interior defense, Brad said he wants PF/C depth, and Petrie talked about doing trades on the radio yesterday. The only hole(s) left are in the front-court, the only deals we'll be doing will involve big men. Only way we get another guard if it's one coming back in a deal.
Bonzi's gone. Phillips and Bonzi wanted too much money, they didn't take Geoff's offer, which was the best and most. Now they'll get less.
Be best to move on and not sulk or dwell over Bonzi.
Bonzi's gone. Phillips and Bonzi wanted too much money, they didn't take Geoff's offer, which was the best and most. Now they'll get less.
Be best to move on and not sulk or dwell over Bonzi.
I think a lot of the optimists on here really need to listen to that Geoff interview. The part about trades is very vague and non-commital. He basically infers they think they've got a lot of right pieces and may look at trades down the road. While he never really gives anything away, there's a big difference between his comments and saying we're still looking at adding other pieces.
Just to head off the obvious comments, of course there is a chance that trades could still be made but there is a good chance that this is the team we're heading into next year with.
Just to head off the obvious comments, of course there is a chance that trades could still be made but there is a good chance that this is the team we're heading into next year with.
And your point is? Have you EVER listened to a GP interview before? 
Actually I'm surprised he said that much.
Actually I'm surprised he said that much.
You cannot take anything out of what Petrie says. He says he's not looking to make a deal and then does. When you hear rumors they are not from him leaking anything. Don't look for omens in Petrie's speech, he doesn't say much and when he does is very vague and doesn't answer the question. There is still time in the offseason and due to the weak FA market and Bonzi taking so long to make a decision....we are going to make our moves through trades which Petrie does anyways and later on in the offseason.
Paying Salmons 5yr/25.5M is surprising, but at least the best GMs in the league wanted this guy so that should give us a little warm fuzzy feeling that we got him and hold us over till we see what he can do as well as the new coach etc this coming season. Enough said.
Paying Salmons 5yr/25.5M is surprising, but at least the best GMs in the league wanted this guy so that should give us a little warm fuzzy feeling that we got him and hold us over till we see what he can do as well as the new coach etc this coming season. Enough said.
My understanding is that one of the sticking points in the contract negotiations was the concern that Bonzi would be as big as Barkley in EVERY physical aspect.
Bonzi does have a tendancy to "bulk"/pork up, as does Sweetney on the Bulls. He was looking very bloated when he came back from the groin injury. I wish more contracts had some contingencies like this, sure would like to see one in Brad's contract because he doesn't work out in the offseason. At least not before, but is now because he is trying to make the national team roster.
Same for Peja, especially now since he signed that huge deal in NO.
" You must work out and become stronger Peja, not weak and relying only on your shot. You must demonstrate a willingness to go to the hoop and take 1 for the team."
Same for Peja, especially now since he signed that huge deal in NO.
" You must work out and become stronger Peja, not weak and relying only on your shot. You must demonstrate a willingness to go to the hoop and take 1 for the team."
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Seriously...Geoff Petrie is not the problem.
Can anyone name a GM that they would rather have... that the Kings could realistically get?
I really enjoyed watching Bonzi play last year for the 50 games that he was healthy. I thought that he was excellent in the Spurs series, but I knew that if he was our best player, we were not going to win the series.
Everybody is pissed on this forum because the Kings have been unable to pick up a dominant big man. Can anybody name a time when Petrie passed up his chance to get one?
For the Kings to challenge for the league title, either the Kings will have to get a low lottery pick during a strong draft or have another GM make a stupid mistake and trade us a talented Big man with character issues. Petrie's job is to put together a team with which Muss can win. It is not his fault that Bonzi would not except a contract that would pay him more money than anyone else was offering.
I will take Petrie anyday over Bonzi.
Can anyone name a GM that they would rather have... that the Kings could realistically get?
I really enjoyed watching Bonzi play last year for the 50 games that he was healthy. I thought that he was excellent in the Spurs series, but I knew that if he was our best player, we were not going to win the series.
Everybody is pissed on this forum because the Kings have been unable to pick up a dominant big man. Can anybody name a time when Petrie passed up his chance to get one?
For the Kings to challenge for the league title, either the Kings will have to get a low lottery pick during a strong draft or have another GM make a stupid mistake and trade us a talented Big man with character issues. Petrie's job is to put together a team with which Muss can win. It is not his fault that Bonzi would not except a contract that would pay him more money than anyone else was offering.
I will take Petrie anyday over Bonzi.
That may be, but those clauses are still very rare, and just about never in a guy like Bonzi's case. He may have a tendency to get thicker rather than thinner, but its never been a huge or permanent problem.
If clauses like that WERE common, it would be one thing. But when you break one out and slap it into a contract of a free agent, its an insult, and maybe even a signal. You don't try to sign a guy while simultaneously impugning his professionalism.
If clauses like that WERE common, it would be one thing. But when you break one out and slap it into a contract of a free agent, its an insult, and maybe even a signal. You don't try to sign a guy while simultaneously impugning his professionalism.
Sorry. Geez. I feel at 8+ million a year, the Kings could ask whatever the hell they wanted. He had the chance to play for a good organization and enjoy a fun NBA town. How deeply must they bow to him. Bonzi did get hurt again in that last series, and coming back with extra weight can only make those things more likely.
From a fan standpoint I resent the fact that only AFTER he got his money, could the subject of keeping at an optimum playing weight be brought up. B.S. Bonzi talked out of his *** when he said he wanted to stay. I despise his lack of loyalty to his teammates and to the organization.
From a fan standpoint I resent the fact that only AFTER he got his money, could the subject of keeping at an optimum playing weight be brought up. B.S. Bonzi talked out of his *** when he said he wanted to stay. I despise his lack of loyalty to his teammates and to the organization.
How come I post a thread calling Bonzi what he is -- a greedy selfish liar -- it gets slammed shut in 2 milli-seconds --- whereas this thread is allowed to run rampant with mindless drivel by no-nothing meatheads disguising themselves a sophisicated Kigns fans?
Firing Geoff Petrie is sacreligous as far as I am concerned. His moves can be second guessed, of course, but the idea of firing him totally asinine.
Please remind me: Geoff Petrie turned this team over completely as we aged and lost our luster, and how many years did we miss making the playoffs?
How many sub-500 seasons have we had in his tenure?
Those calling for his dismissal are SO myopic in their perspective....look at the Warriors -- they are pathetic no matter what they do --- trade after trade, lottery after lottery, coach after coach, a huge payroll....and all they do is lose; year after year.
They are perfect proof of how easy it is to wallow in misery in a very competitive league. And we have avoided that fate, and we likely do so for many, many years to come.
Good idea, Einstein: Let's fire Petrie so we can totally suck too!
And consider this: When's the last time we had a high draft pick, when was the last time our team was fully healthy during the playoffs....and yet we still have found a way to compete and play at a high level.
Yes, a deep run into the playoffs, a NBA title appearance, championship has eluded us, but we are objectively 2 (or 3) moves away from seriously competing for a NBA title....and as fan that's always reason for optimism, for hope, and for that we have Petrie to thank.
Firing Geoff Petrie is sacreligous as far as I am concerned. His moves can be second guessed, of course, but the idea of firing him totally asinine.
Please remind me: Geoff Petrie turned this team over completely as we aged and lost our luster, and how many years did we miss making the playoffs?
How many sub-500 seasons have we had in his tenure?
Those calling for his dismissal are SO myopic in their perspective....look at the Warriors -- they are pathetic no matter what they do --- trade after trade, lottery after lottery, coach after coach, a huge payroll....and all they do is lose; year after year.
They are perfect proof of how easy it is to wallow in misery in a very competitive league. And we have avoided that fate, and we likely do so for many, many years to come.
Good idea, Einstein: Let's fire Petrie so we can totally suck too!
And consider this: When's the last time we had a high draft pick, when was the last time our team was fully healthy during the playoffs....and yet we still have found a way to compete and play at a high level.
Yes, a deep run into the playoffs, a NBA title appearance, championship has eluded us, but we are objectively 2 (or 3) moves away from seriously competing for a NBA title....and as fan that's always reason for optimism, for hope, and for that we have Petrie to thank.
GMs are funny creatures. There are only a handful of "name" GMs, and they are not consistently producing the league's biggest winners. Guys come out of left field all the time, and guys you thought sucked suddenly have a burst of inspiration (see Baylor, Elgin). The best GMs this summer have been in New Orleans and Chicago, and both of those guys/places would have had large question marks over their head last year. All of which is to say that when you releive your GM, you are rarely targetting some other famous GM. You bring in somebody new, and see what happens. Risky. But unless you are winning a title, there is always an up as well as a down. More down possibilities than up in Geoff's case, but if it ever happened few of us would have any idea whether we had gotten a better or worse one until several years had passed.
Actually when you have a guy going 23 and 12 for a playoff series, the only time we've ever had a guy put up better playoff numbers was with Webb himself. What he needed was somebody else to step up alongside him. We had a legit star for one series though.
That's a bit misleading because he could be passing on them everyday. Or he may never havce passed on one. There is no way to know. All we can judge is results. And defensive and rebounding bigs change hands every single summer. But despite a lot of extra talent on the team, its been since 2002 that Geoff has acquired one of significance (Clark), and Keon pretty much just fell to us as well (Geoff is opportunistic if nothing else).
A "dominant" big man is something else of course. Again you never know, but at least those are not routinely obtainable.
Sadly, this may be true. But if it is, it would behoove us to move into positon to get one, either with cap room, or by actually finally trading for a high pick. Thing is I'm not sure Geoff would know what to do with one. His conservatism makes him largely unwilling to take chances on young talent -- he deals in vets, even his draft picks are normally older, ready to play types (Gerald excepted). One assumes he would have the wisdom to take Oden next year, but if there was a surer thing sitting right next to him, I would be worried. In particular since Geoff hasn't drafted a single big man in the first round in a decade, and as far as I know has NEVER drafted a single big man taller than 6'8" for the Kings (Hedo and Peja being small forwards).
Actually when you have a guy going 23 and 12 for a playoff series, the only time we've ever had a guy put up better playoff numbers was with Webb himself. What he needed was somebody else to step up alongside him. We had a legit star for one series though.
That's a bit misleading because he could be passing on them everyday. Or he may never havce passed on one. There is no way to know. All we can judge is results. And defensive and rebounding bigs change hands every single summer. But despite a lot of extra talent on the team, its been since 2002 that Geoff has acquired one of significance (Clark), and Keon pretty much just fell to us as well (Geoff is opportunistic if nothing else).
A "dominant" big man is something else of course. Again you never know, but at least those are not routinely obtainable.
Sadly, this may be true. But if it is, it would behoove us to move into positon to get one, either with cap room, or by actually finally trading for a high pick. Thing is I'm not sure Geoff would know what to do with one. His conservatism makes him largely unwilling to take chances on young talent -- he deals in vets, even his draft picks are normally older, ready to play types (Gerald excepted). One assumes he would have the wisdom to take Oden next year, but if there was a surer thing sitting right next to him, I would be worried. In particular since Geoff hasn't drafted a single big man in the first round in a decade, and as far as I know has NEVER drafted a single big man taller than 6'8" for the Kings (Hedo and Peja being small forwards).
He drafted Brian Grant during his first draft with the Kings. Peja and Hedo are over 6'8", but they are finesse players.
But the fact of the matter is that big men are usually overhyped on draft day. This year Sene, Armstrong and Simmons all went in the top 15 picks and none of them have close to an NBA offensive game.
The last big man who has had a significant impact that was not one of the top picks was Stoudomire @ #9. Our last pick that high was J Will (who we took over Paul Pierce).
My point is Petrie is one of the best in the business. This offseason he may not live up to that billing, but I trust him with the long term future of the franchise.
But the fact of the matter is that big men are usually overhyped on draft day. This year Sene, Armstrong and Simmons all went in the top 15 picks and none of them have close to an NBA offensive game.
The last big man who has had a significant impact that was not one of the top picks was Stoudomire @ #9. Our last pick that high was J Will (who we took over Paul Pierce).
My point is Petrie is one of the best in the business. This offseason he may not live up to that billing, but I trust him with the long term future of the franchise.
While he prefers veterans, this really isn't accurate. Jason Williams was young. Peja was very young. Wallace was young as was K-mart. In fact, Garcia was nearly an exception to the rule being a senior.
No he hasn't taken a lot of HS players or big men (he took Grant and Corliss - though he's skirting the definition of big man), but he has also only had two top 10 picks during his entire time in Sacramento and those were #7 and 8. Most good big men are drafted in the top few picks. It's not as if Petrie has a history of passing on good big men. He's passed on a lot of mediocre big men in favor of much more talented swing men.
He's drafted big men when he's seen good ones, he is the person who drafted Sabonis for Portland as well as Cliff Robinson. I hardly think that generally passing on big men from picks 14-30 is reason to believe he would pass on Oden.
I know for the past few days you've been making some good points as well as stretching the boundaries of logic to criticize Petrie, but at least pick fair reasons for criticism. Right now it seems you are going out of your way try to bash him.
No he hasn't taken a lot of HS players or big men (he took Grant and Corliss - though he's skirting the definition of big man), but he has also only had two top 10 picks during his entire time in Sacramento and those were #7 and 8. Most good big men are drafted in the top few picks. It's not as if Petrie has a history of passing on good big men. He's passed on a lot of mediocre big men in favor of much more talented swing men.
He's drafted big men when he's seen good ones, he is the person who drafted Sabonis for Portland as well as Cliff Robinson. I hardly think that generally passing on big men from picks 14-30 is reason to believe he would pass on Oden.
I know for the past few days you've been making some good points as well as stretching the boundaries of logic to criticize Petrie, but at least pick fair reasons for criticism. Right now it seems you are going out of your way try to bash him.
In 2004, the best bigs were Harrison/Varejao available to us. Both have shown some good things over the last couple season, Varejao more than Harrison. Harrison, so far, also still has a temper problem. But back then we still had Webber/Brad Miller, and got Ostertag, who didn't work out at all.
2005 it was Petro/Maxiell/Mahinmi/Simien/Lee. Simien having a history of injury problems, and has shown a few things with the Heat so far as a light-footed, strong, good shooter, good rebounder, tough kid. Probably won't get much more time this season. Lee's been good with the Knicks as a hustling team-player big, but not an interior presence or shot blocker. Maxiell, even if 6'7", from what I've gathered plays bigger than his height. He's wide, strong, athletic, can score around the basket, has an okay jumper. I hope he gets time with the Pistons, intriguing player. Petro, I haven't seen much of or heard enough about, isn't really an athlete though. Mahinmi's still a project, and has only played in summer league games. Think he's coming into the league this season.
2006, Josh Boone was the only solid big man prospect there, and he's out for 4-6 months with shoulder surgery. Then of course, were likely to get Amundson and/or Justin Williams, which is like 1 or 2 R2 picks. As the explosion of European players in R2 stunted those guys and many others who were expected to be drafted, out of the draft.
2005 it was Petro/Maxiell/Mahinmi/Simien/Lee. Simien having a history of injury problems, and has shown a few things with the Heat so far as a light-footed, strong, good shooter, good rebounder, tough kid. Probably won't get much more time this season. Lee's been good with the Knicks as a hustling team-player big, but not an interior presence or shot blocker. Maxiell, even if 6'7", from what I've gathered plays bigger than his height. He's wide, strong, athletic, can score around the basket, has an okay jumper. I hope he gets time with the Pistons, intriguing player. Petro, I haven't seen much of or heard enough about, isn't really an athlete though. Mahinmi's still a project, and has only played in summer league games. Think he's coming into the league this season.
2006, Josh Boone was the only solid big man prospect there, and he's out for 4-6 months with shoulder surgery. Then of course, were likely to get Amundson and/or Justin Williams, which is like 1 or 2 R2 picks. As the explosion of European players in R2 stunted those guys and many others who were expected to be drafted, out of the draft.
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Um, New Orleans is your example of good GMing this year? I shudder to think what your reaction would be if the Kings signed Peja and Bobby Jackson to monster longterm deals.
And it's kind of misleading to criticize Geoff for not having acquired a defensive big since 2002 via free agency (he did, after all, acquire a defensive big, Brian Skinner, and a rebounding "big", Kenny Thomas, via trade). Up until the past few seasons the big man rotation was already set and there wasn't money to be spent. This past offseason there was not a good defensive big to be had via free agency and we ended up signing SAR to a bargain of a deal. (he also acquired Ostertag a few years back, which I hadn't remembered until I read kings113's post)
And I'm struggling to think of a big man who was drafted lower than our actual draft pick who ended up better than the guy we picked. Maybe Dalembert in the Hedo year, but we needed Hedo more than we needed Dalembert at the time.
It's strange that you think Petrie has an aversion to defensive big men when he drafted Michael Smith, brought in Pollard, brought in Keon Clark, brought in Ostertag, brought in Brian Skinner... up until the end of this past season the Kings have always had one on the roster. I think the bigger problem is that good defensive big men are very hard to come by.
And it's kind of misleading to criticize Geoff for not having acquired a defensive big since 2002 via free agency (he did, after all, acquire a defensive big, Brian Skinner, and a rebounding "big", Kenny Thomas, via trade). Up until the past few seasons the big man rotation was already set and there wasn't money to be spent. This past offseason there was not a good defensive big to be had via free agency and we ended up signing SAR to a bargain of a deal. (he also acquired Ostertag a few years back, which I hadn't remembered until I read kings113's post)
And I'm struggling to think of a big man who was drafted lower than our actual draft pick who ended up better than the guy we picked. Maybe Dalembert in the Hedo year, but we needed Hedo more than we needed Dalembert at the time.
It's strange that you think Petrie has an aversion to defensive big men when he drafted Michael Smith, brought in Pollard, brought in Keon Clark, brought in Ostertag, brought in Brian Skinner... up until the end of this past season the Kings have always had one on the roster. I think the bigger problem is that good defensive big men are very hard to come by.
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2005 is too early to judge, but even looking at 2004, Harrison hasn't done anything noteworthy in the NBA and while Varejao is a solid hustle player, he is still very limited and looks infinetley better playing with Lebron. On another team, his very limited offence would be exposed a lot more. He's like a more athletic, less muscular version of Scot Pollard. He only averaged .4 blks in 16 minutes last season and in the four games he started (and averaged 29 minutes) he averaged .25 blks. This isn't to say he's not a nice player or a good bench player for Cleveland, but I'd much rather have Kevin Martin than Varejao.