QWERTYLICIOUS
Starter
Fixed
. Thanks for pointing that out!
Fire Christie
- Thread starter SufferingKingsFan
- Start date
. Thanks for pointing that out!Lol, not that. I'm asking why Monte being better than Perry is scary, when it'd assumed Monte was a good GM.
You can only blame Vivek for so much and I don't think he is the one responsible for Davion, Devin, Sasha, and a bunch of other middling moves that left us floundering to build on the beam team.
I will blame Vivek for splashy sounding moves like DeMar and Zach but those happened after two years of largely doing nothing.
Why we never got a second wing to succeed HB as a long term pairing with Keegan, even if we reached a bit to do it is beyond me. Since HB was fifth option on offense we may as well just tried bringing in a defensive specialist in that spot and he never did. No shortage of extra picks being passed around in 2023 and 2024 drafts to take a flyer on someone.
ShastaKingsFan
Hall of Famer
I think McNair always wanted to take who he believed was the best player available. We can disagree with his choices, but many of us agree about taking BPA
BPA with a lottery pick for sure. If he got those people they'd be playing or we'd have been able to move them without additional assets in return.
We also sold our 2023 pick for space which we didn't use except to re-sign our own players. Then we kept last year's pick for a guy who isn't getting playing time when there were trade packages available that may have kept Fox happy, or we could have gone for Deni who the Blazers picked up for the pick immediately after ours, or a big like Ware. There was no shortage of teams selling later picks that draft which could have allowed us to grab a defensive player like Ryan Dunn for a low coast as well.
I just see him as a guy who maybe got tunnel vision and didn't think many moves ahead... or maybe he was thinking too many moves ahead he couldn't make the ones right in front of him. I don't know but after trading Hali for Domas and making a huge splash as a guy willing to go all in, the rest of his tenure was marked by tepid indecision and uhhh, playing things too close to the vest.
ShastaKingsFan
Hall of Famer
The reality is that Mike Brown was voted coach of the year and McNair was voted executive of the year. Do we think that if there was an award for owner of the year, that Ranadive would ever be in the running?
Both those awards were well deserved and so were their departures, imho. Vivek has to enjoy in that success and take the lumps for the losses. Obviously he has racked up far more of the latter and is nowhere near the top 25% of the ownership.
Every other sport I follow the teams have won championships in the last 15 years, some of them multiples, and their owners are every bit as hated as Vivek. Robert Kraft in particular despite everything he has done in his 33 years stewarding the Patriots org.
Carter should really be eating up Schroder's minutes. He's not very good offensively but he's probably not going to be worse than Schroder has been on that end and he brings better defense. If they're going to lose by 20+ every game, then make it productive.
Funny thing is people point to Schroder working out in Detroit last year but his shooting numbers are almost identical. Maybe he was consistently inefficient for them. With us he seems to either score 20+ or can't make a shot to save his life without much in between.
Funny thing is people point to Schroder working out in Detroit last year but his shooting numbers are almost identical. Maybe he was consistently inefficient for them. With us he seems to either score 20+ or can't make a shot to save his life without much in between.
Of everything Perry has done so far that is the biggest head scratcher. If he plays out the 3rd year of his contract here or we trade assets to move him it is a major oof. But we did not have a true PG on the roster when we signed him. It's clear nobody that rates Carter is still with the org.
ShastaKingsFan
Hall of Famer
Would you have rather had Brown continue on as head coach, or do you prefer that Christie was chosen to take over?
A winning playoff team in the Knicks hired Brown as soon as they could, is something to think about.
I'd rather Brown have not demanded the early raise and extension and been allowed to play out last year. I don't think that happened in a vacuum. The performance at the time of his dismissal was dismal. In hindsight we'd have been better off if we kept him, never had the mini-rebound under Doug, and instead bottomed out last year, kept our pick and looked to move Fox in the summer. I guess there is the off chance the team improves but there was obviously a rift between our two best players and DDR has been a total nightmare. So in order of blame, Brown is probably at the bottom of the pecking order.
The Knicks at 9-5 right now is not exactly impressive.
ShastaKingsFan
Hall of Famer
If the Knicks get to or exceed 48 wins, would that be considered a successful regular season?
LoungeLizard
Starter
I see what you did there
They made the conference final last year and their conference has been decimated. They need to make the conference final or their season is a failure. If I gave a flying fudge about the Knicks I would be expecting NBA Finals this year.
ShastaKingsFan
Hall of Famer
If Detroit takes them out in the 2nd round, their season was a failure and hiring Brown wasn't a good decision?
Yes and not sure.
Elektrik
Starter
My first thought was the former owner of the Clippers Donald Sterling. Discrimination and racial bias if I remember correctly. Don’t believe he was fired but he was forced out due to league and societal pressure, and rightfully so. Not inferring that Vivek is involved in anything like that, but it was a basis for removal which is what you asked about. Fact, not an assumption.
Clippers again are now in the midst of a bogus bonus situation to pay Kawai Leonard with a shell company called Aspiration. Investigation ongoing with owner Steve Balmer and Leonard. Not sure how it will end. The possibility is there that the pressure could be put on ownership to sell. Dive in to it if you really want details.
Now, whether incompetency is grounds for removal I doubt it. There have been plenty of incompetent owners in all leagues yet they remain. Just look at Jerry Jones. (As a Cowboy fan I can say that lol)
serbiangoat
Starter
He was *good* on Detroit cause he was like the 8th best player (and they were a feel good /winning team), which for his stats and % was acceptable, but it's crazy no on brings up what he did in GSW a team desperate for another ball handler the guy was playing putrid in a role he should have thrived in and got moved after like 10-20 games. Now he's been outplayed by a player no one wanted to give playing time to or have in the team in Westbrook.
ShastaKingsFan
Hall of Famer
These examples are very much not comparable to "hasn't run the team well"
sactowndog
Hall of Famer
For the same short term mentality. Have you seen Stocktons roster? Instead of packing their G league roster with young developmental guys the sign guys like Skal which help the G League team win but does nothing for the Kings future.
sactowndog
Hall of Famer
This point just isn’t true. It’s very hard to move small for large wings in this league. Large wings are too rare and too valuable. It’s why the draft BPA available and fix it later simply doesn’t work. The last 3-4 years and current Kings roster should be clear testament to that fact.
The part about them not playing is actually more important here. We should have drafted guys our coaches will play.
Every G League team is a mix of vets and 2-way guys now though. That's the whole model, they even killed the Ignite.
Personally I think Mike Malone would have been a better choice for them but maybe he turned them down or was looking to enjoy some rest. But if you fire your coach when you get to the conference final you had better believe you have a finals run in you. I'd normally say give it 2-3 years but the time is right now with Boston and Indy having down years due to their star player being injured and cap management causing some loss of depth that they hope to replenish in the coming draft.You have a stiff grading system
sactowndog
Hall of Famer
Where? They didn’t play because they had all star level talent in front of them in many cases. In Davion’s case two all star level point guards. It is all related. They can’t play because the position is impacted and you can’t address the impact because of the challenges trading small for large.
TaxMan
Starter
I predict the trade deadline is going to be a underwhelming and depressing affair. We are all going to work ourselves up to a big sell-off. Dreams of young prospects and first round picks. We will convince ourselves “fine, we can take back a top 10 protected first for Monk. He’s worth more, but if that’s what it takes to get the deal done, make it happen Perry.” Every podcast will be working out the right deal to get Kaminga for Deebo. Of course the warriors will eventually take the vet for their last gasp effort with Curry.
In the end, I feel like we are most likely looking at the slow death of this team. Maybe Westbrook just gets cut. Buy-out Deebo to let him finish with a winner. Domas suffers through injuries this year. No takers for Zach until he becomes an expiring. Maybe somewhere along the way we do something dumb like attach a pick to get off a contract. Ellis walks. Keegan never really develops further and we end up trading him for a couple middling picks.
It’s just going to be a slow ugly march over the next three years to let this crap play out. Hopefully we get lucky with a top 3 pick this year. Hopefully we make a smart pick. Hopefully the culture isn’t toxic so we don’t ruin his career. Sorry to be bleak, but I really think this is the most likely outcome.
In the end, I feel like we are most likely looking at the slow death of this team. Maybe Westbrook just gets cut. Buy-out Deebo to let him finish with a winner. Domas suffers through injuries this year. No takers for Zach until he becomes an expiring. Maybe somewhere along the way we do something dumb like attach a pick to get off a contract. Ellis walks. Keegan never really develops further and we end up trading him for a couple middling picks.
It’s just going to be a slow ugly march over the next three years to let this crap play out. Hopefully we get lucky with a top 3 pick this year. Hopefully we make a smart pick. Hopefully the culture isn’t toxic so we don’t ruin his career. Sorry to be bleak, but I really think this is the most likely outcome.
QWERTYLICIOUS
Starter
My question was in direct response to your initial statement that the league can apply some serious pressure to force him (i.e. Vivek) to sell, resign, or turn it over to a family member, in other words, what makes you think that the league can force him (i.e. Vivek) to sell, as you indicated, in your initial statement, could happen (I most certainly didn't ask for you to provide any example out there of a basis for removal. I thought I had made it clear enough that I was asking for a Kings-specific example). A statement, by the way, you then went on to contradict in your response to my question.
And, no, incompetency is definitely not grounds for removal.
BuddyBuckets
Bench
Crazy how Dallas who had way higher aspirations than us, decided a two weeks into the season that 35 year old Klay wasn't worth starting anymore. Hes averaging 21mpg. Russell is averaging 22mpg. Caleb Martin 10mpg. 22 year old Max Christie is averaging 30mpg.
Weird almost like a smart team knows that they should be prioritizing guys who will be there long term (Flagg, Christie, PJ). Now lets compare to Sac-
LaVine 33.5mpg
Sabonis 33
DeRzan 33
Schroder 30
Russ 28
Monk 24.
Keon and Nique with 18. Most of which feel like they come in the 4th quarter when we are already blown out.
Maxime 14
Carter 8mpg (8 games played) LOL.
Even the Wizards have somewhat figured it out. They play CJ too much, but he doesn't even play 30mpg. Middleton is at 25mpg. Bagley is at 16.
We as fans need to stop making excuses. This team can easily find 30-40 mpg extra for Keon, Nique, and Carter. 10 from Zach/Demar, 5 from russ/Schroder and we found 30.
Weird almost like a smart team knows that they should be prioritizing guys who will be there long term (Flagg, Christie, PJ). Now lets compare to Sac-
LaVine 33.5mpg
Sabonis 33
DeRzan 33
Schroder 30
Russ 28
Monk 24.
Keon and Nique with 18. Most of which feel like they come in the 4th quarter when we are already blown out.
Maxime 14
Carter 8mpg (8 games played) LOL.
Even the Wizards have somewhat figured it out. They play CJ too much, but he doesn't even play 30mpg. Middleton is at 25mpg. Bagley is at 16.
We as fans need to stop making excuses. This team can easily find 30-40 mpg extra for Keon, Nique, and Carter. 10 from Zach/Demar, 5 from russ/Schroder and we found 30.