Fire Christie

QWERTYLICIOUS said:
On what basis are you assuming the league can apply some serious pressure to force him to sell, resign, or turn it over to a family member?
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Because the US does not have promotion and relegation the league needs teams like Sacramento as much as they need the Lakers, Dubs, Knicks and Heat (or whoever else you think is a glamour team).

If anything Vivek's sin is not just operating completely absentee so that the team is a little less consistently mediocre. A team like Charlotte is horribly managed and bottoms out every 5-6 years, gets a new star, never does jack with them, and eventually that star may go help a good team go on a run.

That's where we are with Fox and maybe Domas. League likes us as a farm/development selling team. Benefits the upper class. Sucks for us.
 
Spike said:
Incompetence isn't a fireable offense when it comes to owners. It would be nice if new owners were handed a DO and DO NOT pamphlet when buying a team, though.

"Vivek, did you not read page 5?" Idk. He fired Malone. He fired Monte, who was decent but not spectacular, he seems to be star-struck by big names and abdicates to them more than managers. But he's not looking to cut ties and move the team to Virginia Beach.

I think he DOES want to win. He just needs to realize that silicon valley shtick doesn't cut it here. How long of a rope did Denver give Malone? Long enough for a parade.

This team needs to be ripped to the studs, and you need to keep the building blocks that make sense. Sacramento, for all its warts, will support guys who try hard over big names who don't. If he understood that ONE, key point, he can turn things around.
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He wanted Malone. He wanted Luka. He listened to his "basketball guys" on those and got burned.

If he's running the show now, that's why.
 
pdxKingsFan said:
League likes us as a farm/development selling team. Benefits the upper class. Sucks for us.
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And I look at the success of a small market franchise like the Spurs as proof and a glimmer of hope that, one day, we will be able to turn the tables around and be looked at in a different, and more positive, light. I might be stubborn af for thinking along these lines, but I do have hope.
 
QWERTYLICIOUS said:
And I look at the success of a small city franchise like the Spurs as proof and a glimmer of hope that, one day, we will be able to turn the tables around and be looked at in a different, and more positive, light. I might be stubborn af for thinking along these lines, but I do have hope.
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They've picked #1 3 times when a generational talent teams built their whole rebuild around trying to tank to land (well at least the last two, I was too young to know what a tank was when DRob was picked). We've picked #1 in a class where the best player of the class is nowhere near the level you expect a #1 overall to be. Even though Luka should have been a no-brainer and we passed him up, there were still questions about him coming into the league.

One can only hope we get a top 3 this year and it is impossible to blow it.
 
pdxKingsFan said:
They've picked #1 3 times when a generational talent teams built their whole rebuild around trying to tank to land (well at least the last two, I was too young to know what a tank was when DRob was picked). We've picked #1 in a class where the best player of the class is nowhere near the level you expect a #1 overall to be. Even though Luka should have been a no-brainer and we passed him up, there were still questions about him coming into the league.

One can only hope we get a top 3 this year and it is impossible to blow it.
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Sure, most of San Antonio's success over the years can be attributed to the luck that comes with landing multiple #1 picks. But, I think what's even more important than landing a #1 pick (or multiple #1 picks) is what the front office goes on to do with that pick/those picks in order to then build the franchise into a championship winning one.
 
QWERTYLICIOUS said:
Sure, most of San Antonio's success over the years can be attributed to the luck that comes with landing multiple #1 picks. But, I think what's even more important than landing a #1 pick (or multiple #1 picks) is what the front office goes on to do with that pick/those picks in order to then build the franchise into a championship winning one.
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It is important that they were mostly rock solid franchises when those players joined the team. DRob had his Naval commitment so he didn't come onto the team until they were ready. Both Robinson and Duncan were some of the most coachable guys you could ever imagine and never gave anyone diva treatment.

San Antonio and maybe Indiana are the only franchises to do it consistently. OKC sorta but they f'd over Seattle and until Presti moves on I fail to give that organization credit beyond one person the likes of which we've never seen greatness of his caliber in the modern era. Red Auerbach is the only person that comes close but that predates basketball free agency for the most part. Not even Jerry West was that good.
 
Spike said:
You must be new here. This is a yearly tradition, much like Elf on a Shelf, or the more popular, Snoop on a Stoop.
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haha new-ish...but I'm also stubborn as everyone else here. We're all Kings fans in the end, so there's a little screw loose with all of us at this point!
 
QWERTYLICIOUS said:
Unfortunately, I don't trust Vivek enough to not blow it...Do you?
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It's long been my belief that most guys come in with the talent to be stars but either lack something in their head or they get screwed up along the way. It's not Vivek per se I don't trust but the whole franchise. Incidentally how can Stockton be so good under the same leadership?
 
pdxKingsFan said:
It's long been my belief that most guys come in with the talent to be stars but either lack something in their head or they get screwed up along the way. It's not Vivek per se I don't trust but the whole franchise. Incidentally how can Stockton be so good under the same leadership?
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It's either Shrödinger's ownership theory, or we need hotter GMs.
 
pdxKingsFan said:
It's long been my belief that most guys come in with the talent to be stars but either lack something in their head or they get screwed up along the way. It's not Vivek per se I don't trust but the whole franchise. Incidentally how can Stockton be so good under the same leadership?
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But Vivek owns the franchise, so I am a little confused how you can say that you don't trust the whole franchise, and not necessarily Vivek himself...
 
pdxKingsFan said:
It's long been my belief that most guys come in with the talent to be stars but either lack something in their head or they get screwed up along the way. It's not Vivek per se I don't trust but the whole franchise. Incidentally how can Stockton be so good under the same leadership?
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Because there is no seniority based on reputation and pay. You play there if you are the best young developing talent. A lot less "politics etc", because there is a lot less money involved
 
QWERTYLICIOUS said:
But Vivek owns the franchise, so I am a little confused how you can say that you don't trust the whole franchise, and not necessarily Vivek himself...
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Because for as much as a large chunk of this fanbase is convinced all problems begin and end with Vivek I don't think a new owner would fix it in short order.
 
pdxKingsFan said:
Because for as much as a large chunk of this fanbase is convinced all problems begin and end with Vivek I don't think a new owner would fix it in short order.
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Understood...but I must also ask...If the new owner comes in and promises to fix it over time, and not necessarily "in short order", would you have more trust, less trust, or about the same amount of trust?
 
QWERTYLICIOUS said:
Understood...but I must also ask...If the new owner comes in and promises to fix it over time, and not necessarily "in short order", would you have more trust, less trust, or about the same amount of trust?
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I'd have zero reason to believe anything will change until it does. The last thing I want is an owner that thinks he can fix it. Unless Presti inherits 10 billion and decides he has to own a team.

I'm curious if anyone can name a new ownership group to enter the association after Vivek that they have genuine faith in, and who has shown a track record of success that wasn't already instilled in the franchise they took over. Quite a few have made things much worse. I think Ballmer but he also built OKC into what it is.
 
admira1 said:
So can we just consolidate the same conversations? Or do we enjoy saying the same freaking things in different ways across 87 threads? Again, what is being said here is no different. Maybe the board will go down again for a bit and save us all some headache lol
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Lol. Whatever works.
 
pdxKingsFan said:
Something like a third of the fanbase was miserable during the golden years. There is no way that at least half the fans are going to be ok with whatever the next 2-3 years do. Perry was able to get Dolan to do a full reset in two years in NY. I trust he can get it done here.

If the team wins with the kids, people will complain. If the team doesn't, people will complain. People are going to complain no matter what. They complained we didn't fire Brown, they complained we did. They tore Fox apart for years, then got mad we traded him.

It's why I'm not watching. I suggest others do the same. That would also send the message.
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That's a bit like saying "everyone's got 'em" of both opinions and a**holes. Of course a large number of fans will be unhappy no matter what direction the Kings decide to take. You will never please everyone, so it's best not to try. Instead, know what you wish to accomplish with the time you have. Commit to a long-term plan. Resist the desire to shortcut the process. Very few sustainable winners get there by trying to skip steps, especially amongst small market franchises. Do the hard thing, rather than the immediately gratifying thing. That is, if building a winning basketball team is your chief consideration. If it's something else, well, then all of this discussion is rather moot, isn't it?
 
pdxKingsFan said:
I'd have zero reason to believe anything will change until it does. The last thing I want is an owner that thinks he can fix it. Unless Presti inherits 10 billion and decides he has to own a team.

I'm curious if anyone can name a new ownership group to enter the association after Vivek that they have genuine faith in, and who has shown a track record of success that wasn't already instilled in the franchise they took over. Quite a few have made things much worse.
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Gotcha! Just so you know...I'm actually right there with you, even though some of my previous comments may have led you, and others, to believe otherwise.

While I have hope that things will be able to change for the better with this franchise, I won't actually believe it until I actually see it. I am differentiating hope from believe in that sense.
 
Padrino said:
That's a bit like saying "everyone's got 'em" of both opinions and a**holes. Of course a large number of fans will be unhappy no matter what direction the Kings decide to take. You will never please everyone, so it's best not to try. Instead, know what you wish to accomplish with the time you have. Commit to a long-term plan. Resist the desire to shortcut the process. Very few sustainable winners get there by trying to skip steps, especially amongst small market franchises. Do the hard thing, rather than the immediately gratifying thing. That is, if building a winning basketball team is your chief consideration. If it's something else, well, then all of this discussion is rather moot, isn't it?
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We're 16 games into what at likely minimum is a 250 game process. that's like 6%. I'm not even sure Vivek is sold on this yet but Perry and Christie have put us in position to make clear its inevitable. Why stress about it? Keon is the only one we don't control long term. If we don't have a plan for him that is a major strike against Perry but the rest of this will fall into place.

I didn't call for this kind of approach and I don't think you did either but this is what it looks like until the vets get moved. It just is.
 
The only other person beyond Keon I am worried about is Devin Carter but it's pretty evident at this point that was all Monte, right?
 
SacTownKid said:
Monte >>> Perry. And that is scary as hell.
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Wait why?

Monte was an actual competent executive. Actually put a winner on the floor. Had draft successes, including a UDFA find in Keon.

No, he wasnt Presti, but to me, it's disingenuous when people act like he was some terrible gm. Especially if we operate under the assumption he didn't have control with the Fox trade and maybe even DDR as well
 
BuddyBuckets said:
It is one thing to bench LaVine. He is here next year and is only 30. But Russ and Demar are in their mid-late 30s and won't be here next year. We aren't raising any trade value by running them out there.

Smart team would cut Russ (he isn't the problem but he is blocking minutes) and play Demar max 20mpg until we can trade him or move on this off-season. Eubanks also has no business playing. You can't bench LaVine but you can "shut him down" with an injury. As hes already been clearly nursing one.

Maxime/Cardwell
Keegan/Precious
Nique/Demar
Keon/Monk
Carter/Schroder

This should be the rotation effective immediately. Every starter should be playing 25-30mpg. LaVine out until the deadline. Hopefully by then Demar is gone, Sabonis is gone, maybe Monk/Schroder are gone, and then you bring LaVine back if he wants to.
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I'm down with that. Either shut down Lavine with an injury (not difficult with him) or lower his minutes to 20/game, or a combination of the two.
 
The_Jamal said:
Wait why?

Monte was an actual competent executive. Actually put a winner on the floor. Had draft successes, including a UDFA find in Keon.

No, he wasnt Presti, but to me, it's disingenuous when people act like he was some terrible gm. Especially if we operate under the assumption he didn't have control with the Fox trade and maybe even DDR as well
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> = greater than.
 
QWERTYLICIOUS said:
I suggest that you go back and read pdx's comment again...
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It was SacTownKid but while I was pretty good with Monte and will never side with sactowndog on Monte overall, it's pretty clear his track record is mixed at best. You won't convince me he ever won a trade. Domas for Haliburton may be win-win but I think he could have done better even for the same players, he constantly drafted outside of need (so assume BPA) but has failed to get players in those spots that see meaningful minutes or return capital in the draft, and he completely failed to build on 22-23 to the extent all the key players of that season aside from Keegan appear to be out of town if they aren't gone already.

I'm not sold on Perry doing anything beyond Perry being the OceanGate submersible captain right now but man we're gonna find that Titanic and decorate the shoot out of it.
 
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