finals game 5 (merged)
- Thread starter atxrocker
- Start date
atxrocker
Starter
lmao, erm.. which is it then, dude? first you said there was NO foul. then you said there was a bs foul. then you said there was a backcourt violation and now a travel.. wow you really got it in for this guy huh?
kingsgurl87
Bench
Avery totally embarrassed the media reporter man during the post-game interview....it was funny tho...but the guy kinda asked a stupid question
HndsmCelt
Hall of Famer
Well things changed in the middle of this season. After Garnet beaned a fan. I belive the NBA decided that players who throw the ball into the stands will be fined and ejected from the game. Remember Bonzi's ejection this year?) Now I don't know what exactly the NBA will do since Dirks little tirade was after the game was over but IF there is to be any parity in the leage he ought to be fined. I would hate to see him suspended but since they can't eject a palyer AFTER the game it would make sense.
It was a weak foul to call with the game on the line. My problem WAS WITH THE OTHER 23 FREE THROWS. It was a travel AND a backcourt violation IMO but neither got called. If the refs are going to let THAT go then they should let 1-2 light fouls go.
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Wow. Are you sure you're not really Mark Cuban?
It was a weak foul, even though there's photographic evidence to show he was pushed by Dirk in the back AND grabbed on the arm by Harris?
And it wasn't a backcourt violation, which has been clearly explained above. You can't be charged with a backcourt violation unless you're in possession of the ball the whole time. Wade wasn't. And it wasn't a travel either...
None of these arguments really stand up in the light of reality.
It was a weak foul, even though there's photographic evidence to show he was pushed by Dirk in the back AND grabbed on the arm by Harris?
And it wasn't a backcourt violation, which has been clearly explained above. You can't be charged with a backcourt violation unless you're in possession of the ball the whole time. Wade wasn't. And it wasn't a travel either...
None of these arguments really stand up in the light of reality.
Ryle
Starter
I agree about the backcourt call but that is definitely traveling. He took 3 steps to stop and then 2 more before he dribbled the ball.
HndsmCelt
Hall of Famer
Maybe if Dallas does not want to see Miami shoot 49 FT's they might try NOT playing Hack-A-Shaq all game? Also throwing doubles at Wade is nice but grabing him will usualy result in a whistle, 25 of them.
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Its just ridiculous isn't it? If he wasn't fouled then Wade would have gotten the basket like he did all night but instead his shot was knocked way off the mark. Its a foul even without the photos proving it.
I don't understand why people are crying about the foul discrepancy either when the Mavs went to a strategy of fouling the Heat's weak shooters, and Wade was driving on nearly every play he got the chance. That generates fouls. Dirk shooting 10 footers doesn't.
Back to reality people.
Mad D
Starter
After he jumps back and lands the dribble has already started as seen in the 3rd and 4th pannel. Its hard to see with this grainy resolution but I see no reason why a person (especially an NBA player) would place their arms that low to the ground without starting the dribble. Plus you'd think the ref standing directly to the left of Wade clearly would have seen a travel violation.
Attachments
Ah, but there's the rub. The conspiracy theorists aren't saying the refs didn't see the travel violation. They're saying that, for whatever reason (up to and including alien intervention), the official chose not to CALL the travel violation.
You really need to keep up on these theories, Mad D.
P.S. Are we ever going to have the privilege of seeing more Mad D comics????
kingsgurl87
Bench
espn.com says that dirk was fined $5,000 4 kicking the ball in the stands
loopymitch
All-Star
I just heard that and he got off very lightly IMO. If it hadn't been the finals, he'd be suspended probably.
$5,000 is a joke. What's the fine for a technical foul (I assume there is one) and for a mid-game ejection? He should at least get the second.
It's poppycock that the highest rated Finals in a while is going to go seven games? Especially when it is competing with the World Cup on the same network. It's poppy roster that Miami is the first team in Finals history to sweep three home games in the 2-3-2 format? I'm not saying the overall outcome is pre-determined. Stern doesn't care whether Miami or Dallas wins Game 7, but he cares a whole lot that it gets there. Why is it that Crawford or Bavetta are always involved in these pivotal games with bizarre endings? Is that a coincidence? How did Game 6 of the 2002 WCF (VERY highly rated) work out for us? Coincidentally, Bavetta worked that game, and made the crazy calls/non-calls that we all remember so much.
Bavetta will work Game 6, and Dallas will win.
Yeah, okay, fine.
...
...
I'm not going to argue with you over this AND I'm not going to start wearing aluminum foil hats.
Have a nice evening...
Packt
Starter
What, no mention of his unprovoked assault on that poor bike. Talk about protecting your stars. It was a nationally televised game, and has been broadcast to numerous countries worldwide. Think about the kids, Stern. That behavior shouldn’t be allowed nor accepted. Who knows how many kids are now traumatized or now think its ok behavior to lash out like that.
Really, what's worse: a grown man saying the F word, or a grown man resorting to violence and attacking an exercise bike? Be consistent, Stern.
Coupled with his attack on that ball, I think he deserves at least a quarter suspension for game 6.
Unprovoked? Au contraire. Latest reports from Miami are that the bike insulted Dirk, his mother AND his hero, David Hasselhoff. Dirk was totally justified in his assault on said piece of training equipment.
Bricklayer
Don't Make Me Use The Bat
I have yet to find the conspiracy theorist who has ever been able to explain how they get the teams involved to conveniently miss (or hit) their shots so that the outcomes work out right. But hey, who knows, perhaps the all encompassing global NBA conspiracy got to Josh Howard. Anything's possible in excuse land.
atxrocker
Starter
Mavericks have to get back to playing, not pouting
June 19, 2006
By Chris Bernucca
SportsTicker Pro Basketball Editor
DALLAS (Ticker) - After one of many disappointing playoff losses to the archrival New York Knicks in the 1990s, Miami Heat center Alonzo Mourning explained how he would handle the heartbreak.
"Adversity introduces a man to himself," Mourning said.
ADVERTISEMENT
If that adage is true, then the Dallas Mavericks must have met a whole new set of teammates during their wasted week in Miami as their team character has undergone a schizophrenic transformation from responsible to reprehensible.
And if the Mavericks continue to find excuses instead of answers, the best season in franchise history will end with one of the worst collapses in NBA annals.
The Mavericks - who clearly developed a newfound mental toughness to their team this season - began unraveling late Tuesday night with their collapse at the end of Game Three, assuring a long series instead of a short one.
The downward spiral continued through the week with hotel changes, a suspension and pleas for fairness that sounded somewhat immature. And it culminated with a meltdown in Game Five on Sunday night that was dripping with so much bitterness that it rivaled Miami's moist air.
In other words, it's not the Heat. It's the stupidity.
The complaints emanating from the Mavericks sounded like a day-care center. Owner Mark Cuban was glaring at NBA commissioner David Stern after questionable calls. Coach Avery Johnson was engaging in verbal battles with referees and writers.
Forward Josh Howard - who made one of the biggest strategic mistakes in some time - had to be separated from a reporter after threatening him. And forward Dirk Nowitzki threw the ball into the stands after the Mavericks had given away another golden opportunity to take control of the series and found themselves on elimination's doorstep.
"More than anything, it's frustration," Nowitzki said. "I'm an emotional player out there, and I don't think it was anything bad."
Right. Except for the fact that Nowitzki and the rest of the Mavericks have shown the Heat that they allow their emotions to get the best of them at the worst possible times.
Where once there was poise, there is now panic. Focus has been replaced by fear. And it is hard to believe Johnson when he says, "We're a team that's tough-minded."
Howard endured one of the most forgettable games in Finals history, one that almost required a dose of Prozac to correct. He began aggressively and maintained it through a hamstring twinge, entering the fourth quarter with 23 points.
And then the budding star disappeared. Over the last 17 minutes, he scored as many baskets as suspended teammate Jerry Stackhouse, who was back at the team's hotel in distant Fort Lauderdale. Howard also missed as many free throws as he made, bricking his last two after having drained his first nine.
Those came with 54 seconds left in overtime and the Mavericks leading by one. They still held a one-point lead after Nowitzki, who has been struggling with his shot, made a rainbow over Shaquille O'Neal with 9.1 seconds left, exhibiting some of the mental makeup Johnson has been talking about.
However, it vanished as quickly as it appeared. The Mavericks allowed Heat guard Dwyane Wade to dribble 60 feet between four defenders and get to the rim, where he drew a soft foul with 1.9 seconds to go.
In all, Wade was 21-of-25 from the line, the exact same numbers as the Mavericks. The only difference was Wade attacked the rim while the Mavericks attacked referees and reporters.
Asked afterward about Wade's total free throws, Johnson reversed the conversation and asked a reporter who has covered the team all season what he thought, doing so five times.
The uneasy exchange ended with the reporter asking a new question and Johnson snapping, "Don't stutter!" The coach later attempted to apologize to the reporter.
"He got to the line 25 times," said Dallas guard Devin Harris, who was unable to slow down Wade at any point. "We got three guys smothering him and yet he can still get fouled. It just amazes me."
Even more amazing was the ensuing miscommunication among the Mavericks. After Wade made the first free throw to tie the game, Johnson signaled to his players that he wanted to use his last timeout after the second free throw to advance the ball to halfcourt.
However, Howard requested a timeout right away, a huge mistake that ruined any chance of a last-second shot better than a desperation heave.
"It was clear that we said we were going to call it on the second free throw," Harris said. "I don't know what the dilemma was and why they gave it to us after the first one."
Perhaps because a statement from the referees after the game said Howard actually signaled for a timeout not once, but twice. When that was relayed to Howard, he became angry with the reporter's line of questioning and barked, "Get the (expletive) out of my face!" before being led away by a media relations representative.
Nowitzki had the gumption to suggest that the officials should have cautioned the Mavericks instead of expecting them to know the rules.
"I think that the referee, he needed to wait a little bit, and obviously they should know that we don't want to waste our timeout," he said.
This may be a minor point lost in the din of whining and complaints, but players usually are required to have a general grasp of the rules of the game they play.
And if there was a lack of cooperation on the part of the referees, could you blame them? Had they had turned on their hotel room TV at any time Saturday night, they would have seen Johnson filibustering on the discrepancy of both the number and severity of the foul calls throughout the series.
Since winning the first two games at home, the Mavericks have been knocked off stride by a number of factors - real or imagined - that do not faze teams with mental toughness. The allures of South Beach, an unfavorable league ruling and a perceived tilted whistle should not present much of a challenge to a team that claims to be serious about winning a title.
Instead of advancing low-level conspiracy theories and displaying an unhealthy paranoia, Johnson and his players should be using the many things they did well in Game Five as a foundation for the rest of the series, which will be on their home floor.
Coming off a 24-point loss, playing without one of their best scorers and watching their top player struggle again, the Mavericks still built a double-digit lead and nearly nursed it all the way home in a hostile environment. They regained the rebounding edge and made big positive plays to take the lead in the waning seconds of the fourth quarter and overtime.
"I don't know if anybody could respond in this game even the way we responded," Johnson said, which had an air of truth to it.
For the second time in the postseason, the Mavericks will be playing an elimination game Tuesday night. They can continue their current frame of mind, which almost certainly will make them the third team in NBA history to blow a 2-0 lead in the Finals.
Or they can find a way to restore the relatively new mental toughness they have displayed on occasion, as they did on the home court of the defending champion San Antonio Spurs in Game Seven of the Western Conference semifinals.
June 19, 2006
By Chris Bernucca
SportsTicker Pro Basketball Editor
DALLAS (Ticker) - After one of many disappointing playoff losses to the archrival New York Knicks in the 1990s, Miami Heat center Alonzo Mourning explained how he would handle the heartbreak.
"Adversity introduces a man to himself," Mourning said.
ADVERTISEMENT
If that adage is true, then the Dallas Mavericks must have met a whole new set of teammates during their wasted week in Miami as their team character has undergone a schizophrenic transformation from responsible to reprehensible.
And if the Mavericks continue to find excuses instead of answers, the best season in franchise history will end with one of the worst collapses in NBA annals.
The Mavericks - who clearly developed a newfound mental toughness to their team this season - began unraveling late Tuesday night with their collapse at the end of Game Three, assuring a long series instead of a short one.
The downward spiral continued through the week with hotel changes, a suspension and pleas for fairness that sounded somewhat immature. And it culminated with a meltdown in Game Five on Sunday night that was dripping with so much bitterness that it rivaled Miami's moist air.
In other words, it's not the Heat. It's the stupidity.
The complaints emanating from the Mavericks sounded like a day-care center. Owner Mark Cuban was glaring at NBA commissioner David Stern after questionable calls. Coach Avery Johnson was engaging in verbal battles with referees and writers.
Forward Josh Howard - who made one of the biggest strategic mistakes in some time - had to be separated from a reporter after threatening him. And forward Dirk Nowitzki threw the ball into the stands after the Mavericks had given away another golden opportunity to take control of the series and found themselves on elimination's doorstep.
"More than anything, it's frustration," Nowitzki said. "I'm an emotional player out there, and I don't think it was anything bad."
Right. Except for the fact that Nowitzki and the rest of the Mavericks have shown the Heat that they allow their emotions to get the best of them at the worst possible times.
Where once there was poise, there is now panic. Focus has been replaced by fear. And it is hard to believe Johnson when he says, "We're a team that's tough-minded."
Howard endured one of the most forgettable games in Finals history, one that almost required a dose of Prozac to correct. He began aggressively and maintained it through a hamstring twinge, entering the fourth quarter with 23 points.
And then the budding star disappeared. Over the last 17 minutes, he scored as many baskets as suspended teammate Jerry Stackhouse, who was back at the team's hotel in distant Fort Lauderdale. Howard also missed as many free throws as he made, bricking his last two after having drained his first nine.
Those came with 54 seconds left in overtime and the Mavericks leading by one. They still held a one-point lead after Nowitzki, who has been struggling with his shot, made a rainbow over Shaquille O'Neal with 9.1 seconds left, exhibiting some of the mental makeup Johnson has been talking about.
However, it vanished as quickly as it appeared. The Mavericks allowed Heat guard Dwyane Wade to dribble 60 feet between four defenders and get to the rim, where he drew a soft foul with 1.9 seconds to go.
In all, Wade was 21-of-25 from the line, the exact same numbers as the Mavericks. The only difference was Wade attacked the rim while the Mavericks attacked referees and reporters.
Asked afterward about Wade's total free throws, Johnson reversed the conversation and asked a reporter who has covered the team all season what he thought, doing so five times.
The uneasy exchange ended with the reporter asking a new question and Johnson snapping, "Don't stutter!" The coach later attempted to apologize to the reporter.
"He got to the line 25 times," said Dallas guard Devin Harris, who was unable to slow down Wade at any point. "We got three guys smothering him and yet he can still get fouled. It just amazes me."
Even more amazing was the ensuing miscommunication among the Mavericks. After Wade made the first free throw to tie the game, Johnson signaled to his players that he wanted to use his last timeout after the second free throw to advance the ball to halfcourt.
However, Howard requested a timeout right away, a huge mistake that ruined any chance of a last-second shot better than a desperation heave.
"It was clear that we said we were going to call it on the second free throw," Harris said. "I don't know what the dilemma was and why they gave it to us after the first one."
Perhaps because a statement from the referees after the game said Howard actually signaled for a timeout not once, but twice. When that was relayed to Howard, he became angry with the reporter's line of questioning and barked, "Get the (expletive) out of my face!" before being led away by a media relations representative.
Nowitzki had the gumption to suggest that the officials should have cautioned the Mavericks instead of expecting them to know the rules.
"I think that the referee, he needed to wait a little bit, and obviously they should know that we don't want to waste our timeout," he said.
This may be a minor point lost in the din of whining and complaints, but players usually are required to have a general grasp of the rules of the game they play.
And if there was a lack of cooperation on the part of the referees, could you blame them? Had they had turned on their hotel room TV at any time Saturday night, they would have seen Johnson filibustering on the discrepancy of both the number and severity of the foul calls throughout the series.
Since winning the first two games at home, the Mavericks have been knocked off stride by a number of factors - real or imagined - that do not faze teams with mental toughness. The allures of South Beach, an unfavorable league ruling and a perceived tilted whistle should not present much of a challenge to a team that claims to be serious about winning a title.
Instead of advancing low-level conspiracy theories and displaying an unhealthy paranoia, Johnson and his players should be using the many things they did well in Game Five as a foundation for the rest of the series, which will be on their home floor.
Coming off a 24-point loss, playing without one of their best scorers and watching their top player struggle again, the Mavericks still built a double-digit lead and nearly nursed it all the way home in a hostile environment. They regained the rebounding edge and made big positive plays to take the lead in the waning seconds of the fourth quarter and overtime.
"I don't know if anybody could respond in this game even the way we responded," Johnson said, which had an air of truth to it.
For the second time in the postseason, the Mavericks will be playing an elimination game Tuesday night. They can continue their current frame of mind, which almost certainly will make them the third team in NBA history to blow a 2-0 lead in the Finals.
Or they can find a way to restore the relatively new mental toughness they have displayed on occasion, as they did on the home court of the defending champion San Antonio Spurs in Game Seven of the Western Conference semifinals.
kingkung
Bench
The Mavs were robbed
I know whining about the refs is so uncouth, but just got to say it.
Game 5 will live in Mavs lore like Game 6 in Kings lore (on a lesser scale, of course, according to Kings fans). Wade shot 27 free throws alone (more than the Mavs as a team), but of course, there's the last play. No foul. It's plain as day. I've seen that replay numerous times now. Clearly nothing Nowitzki did warranted a foul call, particularly in such a late-game situation, where the players should decide the ball game, not the refs. That call was one of many moments that changed the series. Without that call, the Mavs would be up 3-2 with two home games, and the odds-on favorite to win the championship.
I know whining about the refs is so uncouth, but just got to say it.
Game 5 will live in Mavs lore like Game 6 in Kings lore (on a lesser scale, of course, according to Kings fans). Wade shot 27 free throws alone (more than the Mavs as a team), but of course, there's the last play. No foul. It's plain as day. I've seen that replay numerous times now. Clearly nothing Nowitzki did warranted a foul call, particularly in such a late-game situation, where the players should decide the ball game, not the refs. That call was one of many moments that changed the series. Without that call, the Mavs would be up 3-2 with two home games, and the odds-on favorite to win the championship.
PixelPusher
Starter
Like those 2002 Kings, the Mavs need only look into the mirror to find the one most responsible for their losing the series.
kennadog
Dog On It!
Exactly! And I don't feel like comparing this series to THAT Kings-Lakers series. The Kings came out of no where in a couple of years to take the defending champ Lakers, with Shaq and Kobe, to a game 7. And choked on free-throws in game 7.
The Mavs lost 4 games straight, and lost in 6 games, to another team who was in the NBA finals for the first time. Massive choke job.
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