Favors

[Bricklayer]

So, reports continue to circulate over in these parts (I'm maybe 10 miles from the Nets' arena) that the Nets entirely fair package (Troy Murphy's big ender, Derrick Favors, 2 #1s) for Melo ain't enough, and that Denver is looking instead for FIVE first round draft picks. Its never clear if that's 5 picks and some other material, but I find that hard to believe as you start entering most expensive trade of all time territory there after a while. Rumors are Nets are lokking to involve a third team to meet such an outrageous demand.

So my query here is, should the Kings get involved in that trade and provide our #1 this season if what we got in return was Derrick Favors? Favors was the #3 pick this year, a hyper athletic but raw PF who projects out as a potential star and potential rebounder/shotblocker. He's been ok so far this year, some flashes of greatness, but nothing consistent. College was the same.


Surely if 5 picks were cobbled together including both New Jersey's and ours this season -- 2 likely Top 5s this summer -- that would have to be enough.

 

[RookieOfTheDay]

Favors for next year's pick? Yeah I'd do it. He was the player many people wanted The Kings to get if they didn't get Cousins, anyways. He'd surely be an upgrade over JT or Landry at the PF. They could even send Landry along in the deal in needed.

 

[sidney]

I think I would. He and Cousins could potentially dominate up front. Then immediately use JT and Landry in trades to fill in other needs.

 

[kupman]

Of course we do it. No brainer IMHO.

 

[sactownfan]

Brick- or whoever..... whats Favors game like? i only have time to watch the kings so i obviously dont see a lot of Favors what kinda player is he..... im just having such a hard time trying to remember a team having 2 dominant big's... Cousins is going to demand that ball a lot.... (he already does)

 

[Boogie-havoc]

Absolutely... like it's been said this is a no brainer, unless you tell me we're definetly 100% getting Kyrie Irving in next years draft.

On Denver wanting 5 draft picks tho.. I mean this just makes me laugh.

If Melo would actually agree to move to the Nets, they would take the first deal you mentioned without hesitating.

I mean they're like store owner in the flee market, the guy about to buy says "I'll give you 5 bucks", then they say "hmm ok you know what, let's make it 105 and you got yourself a deal!"

These guys are not in a position to demand MORE, they just try pretend like they do to maintain the "we got this, buisness as usuall" Delusional attitude they got going.

In reality, Melo would NEVER go to a Nets team with no Favors, no draft picks, and no Devin Harris... he would much rather stay in Denver at that case.

If Denver are so sure he will agree to any trade just to get that extention, even a weak Nets team with no apperent contention quality in the current and far future, then why don't they just keep Melo thos making him extend with them? I mean the extention is all he has on his mind by thier behavior and they're calling the shots, so just keep him and he will have to extend with you before the new CBA.

And again, in reality they will just get royally screwed like the Raptors and Cavs were this past summer, while Melo skips all the way to NYC with a smile on his face.

 

[mcsluggo]

why a no-brainer? we have an almost guaranteed top-5 pick (given how the Kings are playing)... it is not like we wouldn't be paying a STEEP price.


the real question is.... why in the hell would the NETS pay that ransom? his contract is up at the end of the season, right?

if melo REALLY wants that extra money (that only a sign and trade can bring) he'd better lean on the Nugs and limit what THEY charge another team to get it for him. DOes he really want to go to a team that has given away the whole kitty to get him? and be left playing with a bunch of scrubs.

the Nugs SHOULDN'T have very much leverage here... it seems like they are way over playing their hand. no?

 

[Capt. Factorial]

I don't know. I like Favors' potential, but I'm not sure I want to give up a top-5 pick this year, if only for the possibility of nabbing Kyrie Irving who to me looks like a can't-miss star. Beyond that, there's still the Jones boys, Sullinger, and the ashes of a Harrison Barnes that all seem to have the level of potential that Favors does, so unless our front office really sees Favors as that missing piece, I'd be inclined to say no and let the chips fall as they may.

 

[sidney]

the real question is.... why in the hell would the NETS pay that ransom? his contract is up at the end of the season, right?

Any of the current deals talked about with the Nets are conditional upon Melo extending. So the nets would lose their potential big man in Favors for the immediate star power of Carmelo

 

[sidney]

Brick- or whoever..... whats Favors game like? i only have time to watch the kings so i obviously dont see a lot of Favors what kinda player is he..... im just having such a hard time trying to remember a team having 2 dominant big's... Cousins is going to demand that ball a lot.... (he already does)

The word on Favors at the draft was a super athletic defender and rebounder with somewhat limited offense. He'd be complimentary to Cousins I think. Potential was talked about as more like a Dwight Howard whereas Cousins maybe more of a limited athlete that was highly skilled like a Gasol. Not a perfect analogy, but just imagine how a Gasol / Howard front court would look and that's the high end potential

 

[Capt. Factorial]

why a no-brainer? we have an almost guaranteed top-5 pick (given how the Kings are playing)... it is not like we wouldn't be paying a STEEP price.


the real question is.... why in the hell would the NETS pay that ransom? his contract is up at the end of the season, right?

if melo REALLY wants that extra money (that only a sign and trade can bring) he'd better lean on the Nugs and limit what THEY charge another team to get it for him. DOes he really want to go to a team that has given away the whole kitty to get him? and be left playing with a bunch of scrubs.

the Nugs SHOULDN'T have very much leverage here... it seems like they are way over playing their hand. no?

Obviously the Nets would only trade for 'Melo if he agreed to the 3/$65M extension currently on the table. No extension, no deal. I don't think a sign-and-trade is a very viable option right now due to the uncertainty of the rules under the next CBA. So, to some extent, the Nuggets think they DO hold the cards, because they think Anthony is sure to sign that extension some way, somehow, sometime, before he costs himself perhaps $20M under the new CBA. And if he's going to sign the extension, they want to get fair value.

Five first-rounders seems a bit much, but I think the Nets have conditionally stockpiled that many over the next two years. I can see them holding on to their own in 2011 and letting the others go for a ready-made, franchise player with a 3 year extension, but in the end, if it gets done I'm guessing the meat of the package is 3 picks and Favors.

 

[kingsnation]

im just having such a hard time trying to remember a team having 2 dominant big's

Depending what you mean by dominant.... Bynum/Gasol. Robinson/Duncan.

The Wallace's in Detroit a few years back weren't dominant but a good defensive/offensive balance.

As far as Favors.. I guess my answer would be to see who is actually projected to go top 5 in next years draft. If there is a John Wall or Blake Griffin type of player (meaning franchise superstar) available, I don't think I would go for Favors.

If this year's draft class is looking pretty mediocre, then I take Favors with another player in return from either Denver or NJ.

 

[rainmaker]

I would have to think about that. I personally am very high on JT, and think he can be an above average starting pf in 2 years, and fits very well next to Cousins. JT could be a very good role player, and might fit better next to Cousins than Favors would. Favors is a better scorer, but JT has a better face up jumpers, better rebounder(and will get better), much better passer, and already a good team defender.

But JT isn't allstar talent, and Favors is. With JT/Whiteside though, I think that pf combo down the road would fit very well next to our future allstar center. Do we really need another allstar level frontcourt player next to Cousins over a better pg or sg, or sf, depending on where Tyreke plays down the road? I would be more interested in Devin Harris, depending on his health, as crazy as that may sound, because he fills a much bigger need IMO.

Is there a future allstar caliber pg or sf in this years draft? If there is, than that would be who I go after. I really do think our pf combo of JT/Whiteside will look very good in 2 years.

 

[MassachusettsKingsFan]

I would probly do it. This draft isnt great, and its hard to tell who will even be coming out with the potantial for a lockout. The one guy I really like, Kyrie Irving, is hurt and may stay at Duke lockout or not.

One other nice part of the deal is that we can keep playing hard all year long without the whole 'need to keep good draft position" issue.

I think thats part of what hurt us this season. Im not saying we tanked last year, but we lost ALL momentum we had from earlier in the season during the second half, and that carried over to the slow start this year. We need to string together a LONG chain of good basketball. Something that we can carry over to next season with good momentum. A trade for Favors taking us out of tanking season would be good for that.

 

[hrdboild]

Brick, I just logged in right now to post this exact topic! You beat me to it. Anyway I was just going to pose the open question and put up a poll, but since you already did that for me I guess that means I get to vote.

My vote is yes. Favors looks like an ideal fit at PF next to Cousins -- he's a super-athletic role player who's going to play solid defense and won't eat up a lot of possessions on offense. In terms of fit and overall talent, that's probably better than we can do in the draft this year. We can roll the dice and might end up with Kyrie Irving if he's even in the draft but that's a long shot and the other options are going to be the three talented but raw SF's who are going to need just as long to develop as Favors or Sullinger who's skillset is somewhat redundant with Cousins. This is one of the rare cases where trading an unprotected pick might actually be in our best interest, even if that pick turns out to be #1.

 

[Vlade4GM]

I want to, but I wouldn't want to miss out on Kyrie Irving for him. At this point though, I'd take Favors over every other prospect that's projected to go in this draft. Perhaps we could make it top 1 protected.

 

[JJ22L]

I would probly do it. This draft isnt great, and its hard to tell who will even be coming out with the potantial for a lockout. The one guy I really like, Kyrie Irving, is hurt and may stay at Duke lockout or not.

One other nice part of the deal is that we can keep playing hard all year long without the whole 'need to keep good draft position" issue.

I think thats part of what hurt us this season. Im not saying we tanked last year, but we lost ALL momentum we had from earlier in the season during the second half, and that carried over to the slow start this year. We need to string together a LONG chain of good basketball. Something that we can carry over to next season with good momentum. A trade for Favors taking us out of tanking season would be good for that.

I think that, right there, is an incredibly good point.

A lineup of Favors/Cousins/Evans + not having to worry about Lins or Wosses would be fabulous. Not just from a team perspective, but also from a franchise perspective. The fans would be more "pro-win" and it would create a better environment (at least IMHO).

Also, taking into account our draft luck (lotto ball-wise), we can't count on being in the position to draft Irving. I think this is a win/win.

 

[LWP777]

I would have to think about that. I personally am very high on JT, and think he can be an above average starting pf in 2 years, and fits very well next to Cousins. JT could be a very good role player, and might fit better next to Cousins than Favors would. Favors is a better scorer, but JT has a better face up jumpers, better rebounder(and will get better), much better passer, and already a good team defender.

But JT isn't allstar talent, and Favors is. With JT/Whiteside though, I think that pf combo down the road would fit very well next to our future allstar center. Do we really need another allstar level frontcourt player next to Cousins over a better pg or sg, or sf, depending on where Tyreke plays down the road? I would be more interested in Devin Harris, depending on his health, as crazy as that may sound, because he fills a much bigger need IMO.

Is there a future allstar caliber pg or sf in this years draft? If there is, than that would be who I go after. I really do think our pf combo of JT/Whiteside will look very good in 2 years.

LOL at being "high" on JT. I think you are high on crack. Please tell me what he has done in 3 years to make you think he's going to get dramatically better? He's nearly 25 years old already, has horrible hands, an extremely low basketball IQ and doesn't know what a foul is. Mabye a fairy will come along with a magic wand and change everything about his game?

 

[Boogie-havoc]

btw I don't really think he's a better rebounder then Favors.. that kid is a beast on the board even in his limited minutes.

 

[Bricklayer]

One other nice part of the deal is that we can keep playing hard all year long without the whole 'need to keep good draft position" issue.

Yep -- that exact thing occurred to me too and I almost included it in my initial post, but didn't want to slant it too much given I was putting up a poll. Get our talented youth anyway and still be able to play to the bitter end this year without any misgivings. Would also free us up to make a win now sort of move with our other assets if we wanted to.

 

[RookieOfTheDay]

I don't know why they'd do a straight swap, though. They'd be trading a pick that could drop as low as 6 or 7 if The Kings improve for a player that was just #3. Seems to me like they'd want something else with the pick.

 

[mcsluggo]

Obviously the Nets would only trade for 'Melo if he agreed to the 3/$65M extension currently on the table. No extension, no deal. I don't think a sign-and-trade is a very viable option right now due to the uncertainty of the rules under the next CBA. So, to some extent, the Nuggets think they DO hold the cards, because they think Anthony is sure to sign that extension some way, somehow, sometime, before he costs himself perhaps $20M under the new CBA. And if he's going to sign the extension, they want to get fair value.

Five first-rounders seems a bit much, but I think the Nets have conditionally stockpiled that many over the next two years. I can see them holding on to their own in 2011 and letting the others go for a ready-made, franchise player with a 3 year extension, but in the end, if it gets done I'm guessing the meat of the package is 3 picks and Favors.

obviously they son't sign him without the extention.... my question is why does Denver have all this leverage? If they DON'T trade him, they get squat--- and Melo gets a smaller contract, but a better surrounding cast. If they DO trade him then they get whatever they get, which takes away from Melo's future team. So in the end it it is kinda Melo's choice of a trade-off .... how much is MELO willing to let Denver get in order to let MELO get more $$$ fro the extention-and-trade?

Melo holds all the cards, no?

edit:: your point demonstrates a LITTLE more leverage to the Nugs... but still. Whyinthehell would Melo let them pillage whatever team he is going to get traded to? he is not powerless here

 

[hrdboild]

I don't know why they'd do a straight swap, though. They'd be trading a pick that could drop as low as 6 or 7 if The Kings improve for a player that was just #3. Seems to me like they'd want something else with the pick.

It's not a straight swap from their point of view though. If they're willing to include Favors in a deal to get Melo and Denver is holding out for more picks, we could throw our pick in the pot -- which is likely to be a very high pick, perhaps the highest one they'll get in the trade -- and the Nets still get what they desperately want which is Melo signed for the next 3 years to move into Brooklyn in style. We could also send Landry to New Jersey as part of the deal and they'd have a decent PF to play next to Melo and Lopez. A lot of this depends on what Melo will or will not agree to. I would think Denver would prefer to have Favors than our pick as well, but the report today is that they're not all that high on Favors and they want as many picks as possible. Not everyone expects Favors to live up to his potential and his appeal to this franchise is as much about fit as it is overall talent.

 

[sidney]

I would think Denver would prefer to have Favors than our pick as well, but the report today is that they're not all that high on Favors and they want as many picks as possible. Not everyone expects Favors to live up to his potential and his appeal to this franchise is as much about fit as it is overall talent.

Denver is also 14M in luxury tax land. They may prefer to get tax relief this year plus another high pick instead of Favors which is where a team like us could come into play by renting our cap space and offering our pick.

Something along these lines:
http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=279ypmt

 

[RookieOfTheDay]

Something along these lines:
http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=279ypmt

Where do I sign? Kings would come out great in that deal because Murphy is 11 million expiring next year. And if he could be resigned for a lot less, he'd do as PF for the next few years at least.

 

[Bricklayer]

Where do I sign? Kings would come out great in that deal because Murphy is 11 million expiring next year. And if he could be resigned for a lot less, he'd do as PF for the next few years at least.

Despite the attraction of his shooting, I beg to differ. Troy Murphy is a losing PF in this league, always has lost, probably always will. Can't defend, which is sort of skill #1 for a PF, especially one playing next to Cousins. And of course if you get Favors, you play Favors. In fact hopefull you turn the frontcourt into Cousins, Favors, Thompson and Whiteside.

As an aside, while Denver might like cap relief, one of the advantages of the 5 pick way with us getting Favors is that Jersey still gets to have a PF -- works better for them and for Melo.

 

[Gary]

Never really a fan of Favors. I don't think he will be close to being as good as Cousins when it's all said and done.

 

[ParniValjak]

Never really a fan of Favors. I don't think he will be close to being as good as Cousins when it's all said and done.

He doesn't need to be as good as Cousins but he needs to bring to the table things that Cousins doesn't. If Favors reaches his defensive potential, then Cousins - Favours pairing could be beastly for years to come. A defensive minded, shot blocker and rebounder would be an ideal complement to Cousins. Preferably someone who can slide to the 5 if needed and Favours can do that well.

As Bricklayer said, Cousins - Favours - JT - Whiteside froncourt would be an ideal group going forward. Provided of course that they all develop as expected.

In reality, if Cousins develops into a lost post presence that we think he will, then the player next to him in the front court does not need to be any better than Tyson Chandler or Joakim Noah or Al Horford. You need a "garbage man" that will do everything that Cousins wouldn't. Defend and block shots and not be a liability on the boards or offensively. Cousins - Favours frontcourt would dominate rebounding battles night in night out.

I would do the deal especially if we can make the pick top 1 or 2 protected.

 

[Bricklayer]

Never really a fan of Favors. I don't think he will be close to being as good as Cousins when it's all said and done.

Think the bigger question given our likely needs going forward is can he become as good as Al Horford?

 

[sidney]

As an aside, while Denver might like cap relief, one of the advantages of the 5 pick way with us getting Favors is that Jersey still gets to have a PF -- works better for them and for Melo.

We'd still have to give our 2011 first to Denver even if we use our cap space to absorb a big salary. NJ is hardly playing Murphy this year anyway and playing Humphries major minutes. Maybe I am not understanding.

I think getting closer to the tax line is a major issue for Denver based on them supposedly blocking that deal before the season that involved Kirilinko since it did not lower their salaries for the current year.