Everything thats wrong with this team 2 words. Bellinelli,McLemore

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I get your point and I would agree, that defending the pick&roll is a team effort and needs practice. But the most difficult part (at least from my own personal experience, which is obviously not on a professional level) is to defend the pick&roll from the second pass on, because the whole team needs to rotate quickly.
My concern is, that the Kings have trouble to defend the pick&roll right from the start. The opponent doesn't even need 2 or more passes to beat us. We aren't chasing guys around and manage to defend until late in the shotclock only to get beat by a brilliant offense and stellar passing.
Against the Hornets we gave Spencer Hawes 5 attempts from 3 in the 3rd off the identical play out of a high pick&roll. He made 4. And as far as I remember none of those 3's was after an extended stretch of stellar ball movement. It was a basic pick&pop play. Now any NBA player should know, that the only way Hawes is able to hurt you is by hitting opetechniquets. But we never managed to force him out of his comfort zone. All he had to do is set a screen, pop out, catch and shoot.
I'm sorry, but you don't need to practice upper echolon team defense, to stop this kind of play. You need to put in effort, close out hard and force Hawes to put the ball on the floor or at least to swing the ball to the next player. Force Spencer Hawes to make a decision with the ball.
Now if the Hornets manage to beat you from there, you can blame the lack of defensive practice and team defense.
But up until this point it's mainly effort.

Long story short: I wouldn't complain about our effort level, when the Warriors blow us out with their incredible ball movement. But I can't stand watching Spencer Hawes or Troy Daniels or Meyers Leonard getting open 3 after open 3 after one pass.
I would prefer to see Rondo, Ben and DC to sit with 6 fouls, cause they run over the screener every single time, before I put all blame on Karl.

Your analysis is fine. But yes you do need to practice. You know that the offense practices how to set that screen. How to pick and pop. How to seal off the defender. The don't just say try your hardest and set that screen. They practice techniques. So how are you supposed to be effective against that if you don't PRACTICE your defensive technique? Trying hard is not the answer. Situational practice. Coaching technique on getting around and over and through screens.

Jordan Spieth has been playing golf his whole life. I think he's got the game down. But if he doesn't practice his skill continuously continuously and get coaching, he can still beat me and you, but he won't compete at the highest level. Kings players may have learned about defensive techniques from grade school up, but if they don't get coaching and practice to keep those skills up, they can't perform it on an NBA level.

What is apparent to me is that thos coaching staff is telling the players to just go give effort, but are failing to focus on the details. Plus, the defensive scheme itself sucks.
 
Are all the open shooters on teams the Kings are facing the result of player effort or is it because of the defensive scheme? Perhaps the scheme does not match the players abilities?

I've been wondering the same thing. Could it possibly be the scheme to have Collison switch on to Dirk time and time again? But we were switching against the Hornets, too. So, is it faulty execution?

Or both? Is the scheme limited because the players can't execute anything better?
 
Your analysis is fine. But yes you do need to practice. You know that the offense practices how to set that screen. How to pick and pop. How to seal off the defender. The don't just say try your hardest and set that screen. They practice techniques. So how are you supposed to be effective against that if you don't PRACTICE your defensive technique? Trying hard is not the answer. Situational practice. Coaching technique on getting around and over and through screens.

Jordan Spieth has been playing golf his whole life. I think he's got the game down. But if he doesn't practice his skill continuously continuously and get coaching, he can still beat me and you, but he won't compete at the highest level. Kings players may have learned about defensive techniques from grade school up, but if they don't get coaching and practice to keep those skills up, they can't perform it on an NBA level.

What is apparent to me is that thos coaching staff is telling the players to just go give effort, but are failing to focus on the details. Plus, the defensive scheme itself sucks.

Well most likely the truth lies somewhere in the middle. Coaching has something to do with it. But from a veteran team, one could expect, that the fundamentals of guarding the pick&roll are second nature for these guys.
It's pretty telling, that the best defenders on this team are two rookies, Casspi to a certain extent and a guy, who is a fringe NBA player and mainly a chemistry guy named Quincy Acy. And to me it seems obvious, where the difference is between Acy/Casspi and a guy like Rondo. Acy hustles his heart out. Rondo is trying to be smart.
 
Bobby has been roasting the coaching staff the past couple games on the pre-game radio spot. Says that defense was not a priority AT ALL in training camp and we are obviously seeing it now.

Truth is there are multiple strategies on how to guard the Pick and roll. You can Ice, Zone up, Show, Hedge.. etc.

The problem I see with the Kings is they can't multi-task when guarding it. Mentally you have to be aware of both players, and most of the time the Kings players will try a Hedge or a Zone, But they end up just switching because it's the easy way out. Emphasis in training camp and drills would have helped these players.
 
Are all the open shooters on teams the Kings are facing the result of player effort or is it because of the defensive scheme? Perhaps the scheme does not match the players abilities?

Without getting into the weeds, I think it's safe to assume that since were at the bottom of the league in defending the three, it has more to do with either personnel, or effort than anything else. We are, if I have my facts straight, talking about experienced NBA players playing defense. P&R defense is pretty basic and by the time a player has played through highschool, college, and 5 or 6 years of NBA basketball, I would think he knows all the nuances of how to play defense. However, knowing and doing are two separate things. In Belinelli's case, I think it has more to do with physical ability than it does effort. Whatever the reason, he stinks. McLemore is hot and cold, which makes him hard to judge. He'll follow a great play, with a bonehead play. He's consistently inconsistent.

We can banter back and forth about the pluses and minuses of of our backcourt, but one thing is obvious, we need a change if were going to win consistently. When your at the bottom of the league in three point defense, and the league is living and feeding on shooting the three, you have to fix the problem. I realize that it's easier said than done, but that's what Vlade is getting paid the big bucks for. All that aside, I do think that Karl has a large responsibility in this. His tendency to go with Belinelli while he's missing shot after shot, and getting burned on defense, while Ben, Anderson, and Curry ride the bench is baffling. Although of late, he has used Anderson more.

While were throwing blame around, I think Cousins has to take a little responsibility. I cut him some slack because of how hard he works on the offensive side of the ball. But of late, and particularly since Willie is back beside him, he's shown a reluctance to come out and guard big's that are capable three point shooters. He left Hawes open several times in the Hornet game, and last night he played off of Leonard and got burned. Winning is about the elimination of mistakes. Every turnover that results in a basket for the other team, every missed assignment that results in a basket, every time someone is late getting back on defense that results in a basket, are reasons we lose a game. Your never going to eliminate them, but the fewer mistakes you make, the more your winning percentage will rise.

My point is, turning the ball over 20 times a game (no we don't do that every game), and being a poor perimeter defensive team is a recipe for failure. Whether we like if or not, the league has fallen in love with the three point shot. Along with that, the league is playing at a faster pace with smaller players. I think the fact that most good three point shooters happen to be 6'7"or shorter has something to do with that. When you dip your ladle into the three pt. shooting soup, you usually come out with a smaller player. It is what it is, and you have to deal with it. Far too often of late, we've found ourselves in a shootout in the 4th quarter, trading two point baskets for three point baskets.

If were going to win those games, logic tells you that you have to match their three's, or, we have to stop them from hitting those three's. Strikes me that the easier answer of the two is to stop them, or at least reduce them. Simple math tells you that if they hit 4 out of 10 three's, you have to hit 6 out of 10 two's to match them. In other words, if thay shoot 40% from the three, you have to shoot 60% of your two pt shots just to stay even with them. Since we seldom shoot 60% the obvious answer it stop them from shooting 40%. I realize that this is a simplistic example, but the problem is very real and needs to be addressed if were going to move forward.
 
Without getting into the weeds, I think it's safe to assume that since were at the bottom of the league in defending the three, it has more to do with either personnel, or effort than anything else.

It's at least interesting to note that while we are allowing the most made threes in the league, we (at least before last night's game) were dead on league average at 3PT% allowed. I'm not entirely sure what this means - it would seem that we are allowing a lot of threes, but not necessarily really open or really easy threes (e.g. corner threes). So it's possible that there's a certain reluctance in other teams to take twos, but our 2P% allowed is near the bottom of the league. So if we give up easy twos, but not easy threes, why do teams take so many threes against us? My guess is that our 2P% is hurt by horrible transition D and lots of easy breaks, but that once we get into the half court we give up average-difficulty threes more readily than average-difficulty twos. But at the very least, the numbers are a bit weird.
 
For me to put the defensive issue all on effort, I have to believe that every single guard on our team simply does not want to play with any effort. What are the odds? Or that the coaching staff can't convince one or two of them that they have to try. Nobody on this team is saying " I'd really like to make the playoffs, but only if I don't have to guard anyone to get there."

And before anyone says Anderson and Curry try, they get burned just as much as the next guy.
 
It's at least interesting to note that while we are allowing the most made threes in the league, we (at least before last night's game) were dead on league average at 3PT% allowed. I'm not entirely sure what this means - it would seem that we are allowing a lot of threes, but not necessarily really open or really easy threes (e.g. corner threes). So it's possible that there's a certain reluctance in other teams to take twos, but our 2P% allowed is near the bottom of the league. So if we give up easy twos, but not easy threes, why do teams take so many threes against us? My guess is that our 2P% is hurt by horrible transition D and lots of easy breaks, but that once we get into the half court we give up average-difficulty threes more readily than average-difficulty twos. But at the very least, the numbers are a bit weird.

Yeah, those two stats are somewhat confusing. I do know what my eyes see though, and more often than not of late, the other team is killing us from the three point line. Of course some nights we get lucky and they miss a lot of shots. I'm curious to know what the difference is between 2pt shots made with WCS on the floor, against when he's not on the floor?
 
For me to put the defensive issue all on effort, I have to believe that every single guard on our team simply does not want to play with any effort. What are the odds? Or that the coaching staff can't convince one or two of them that they have to try. Nobody on this team is saying " I'd really like to make the playoffs, but only if I don't have to guard anyone to get there."

And before anyone says Anderson and Curry try, they get burned just as much as the next guy.

Well I hate lumping everyone into one group. I certainly think Curry puts out effort when he gets a chance to play. I think Anderson puts out effort and last time I checked, they were both guards. I think Ben has poor instincts, which are hard to teach. He bites on fakes far too often. You watch WCS out on the perimeter and he's almost textbook. It's hard to get him to leave his feet, and he always seems to know where the player is going. Ben is just as good an athlete, but constantly gets crossed over. Everyone is going to get crossed over from time to time, but with Ben its routine. The other problem our guards have is playing too far off their man, and having to do a run out when he gets the ball. The minute you do a run out, your dead meat to anyone with some skills. I'm not denying we have a problem, but I don't think it totally attributable to lack of effort. Lack of brains is also likely.
 
Belinelli was successful in San Antonio because he was used almost strictly as a spot up shooter. He wasn't running curls and letting it fly.

When he has time to set his feet and shoot, he's pretty accurate. I just don't think he's being utilized correctly on most occasions.

He's shooting a career low .386 overall, .316 from deep. Is it just coincidence that he's having his worst season with us? I doubt it.

That's not to say he isn't at fault. He's definitely run cold, and I can't fully explain the reason he's throwing up brick after brick.

San Antonio always gets the most out of their talent, so you always have to be weary of any player coming out of that Spurs system.


As for Collison, he's simply overused. He's a solid but unimpressive guard. He tends to be selfish and shouldn't be playing high volume minutes.
 
Can't remember if I have written a note in this thread. As no other King runs curls, I suspect it is at his request. He rarely sets himself in order to shoot even if it isn't a curl. I have to believe this is at his request or at least the curl is at his request. If he could make that shot it would be wonderful as he almost always gets himself open. Makes me scratch my head why he would continue this as it doesn't work. It's fixable. Just stop it.

I don't know what to make of Ben. He is a great athlete. I am sure he would hate to gain weight which might cut down his ability to fly and dunk. However, 15 more pounds might help him on defense. No matter what it is to be his end goal as an NBA player, he will always be missing that fire that most NBA players have. I have no answers for him unless some other team sees a bargain and we can trade him. I do not dislike Ben; quite the opposite. It's too bad a guy with his athleticism can't fit somewhere.

My crazy thought on the players who aren't fitting well is to be patient. Karl has adjusted with our major studs. Maybe at some point he will fix his eye on a few others like Ben and find a role. I don't have faith in that.

Wasn't it several years ago where there seemed to be no ends of sgs in the league. Wasn't it thought that a sg could always be found. That isn't true anymore.
 
Belinelli was successful in San Antonio because he was used almost strictly as a spot up shooter. He wasn't running curls and letting it fly.

When he has time to set his feet and shoot, he's pretty accurate. I just don't think he's being utilized correctly on most occasions.

He's shooting a career low .386 overall, .316 from deep. Is it just coincidence that he's having his worst season with us? I doubt it.

That's not to say he isn't at fault. He's definitely run cold, and I can't fully explain the reason he's throwing up brick after brick.

San Antonio always gets the most out of their talent, so you always have to be weary of any player coming out of that Spurs system.


As for Collison, he's simply overused. He's a solid but unimpressive guard. He tends to be selfish and shouldn't be playing high volume minutes.
I agree on Marco. We are not using himto his strengths and the end result is what we are seeing. Use him as a spot up shooter with his feet set and you get a very different player. That's on the coaching staff IMHO.

I think the same about Collison. I don't think we are using him correctly and playing to his strengths. He is asked to play very differently to what makes him most effective!
 
I agree on Marco. We are not using himto his strengths and the end result is what we are seeing. Use him as a spot up shooter with his feet set and you get a very different player. That's on the coaching staff IMHO.

I think the same about Collison. I don't think we are using him correctly and playing to his strengths. He is asked to play very differently to what makes him most effective!

Nobody comes off curls except Marco therefore I think that's his idea. Whether it is or not, he needs to stop it.
 
Belinelli was successful in San Antonio because he was used almost strictly as a spot up shooter. He wasn't running curls and letting it fly.

When he has time to set his feet and shoot, he's pretty accurate. I just don't think he's being utilized correctly on most occasions.

He's shooting a career low .386 overall, .316 from deep. Is it just coincidence that he's having his worst season with us? I doubt it.

That's not to say he isn't at fault. He's definitely run cold, and I can't fully explain the reason he's throwing up brick after brick.

San Antonio always gets the most out of their talent, so you always have to be weary of any player coming out of that Spurs system.


As for Collison, he's simply overused. He's a solid but unimpressive guard. He tends to be selfish and shouldn't be playing high volume minutes.

One thing that hurts Marco's percentages a little is end of quarter shots (half court heaves). In San Antonio it'd probably be Ginobili throwing up the shot.
 
I agree on Marco. We are not using himto his strengths and the end result is what we are seeing. Use him as a spot up shooter with his feet set and you get a very different player. That's on the coaching staff IMHO.

I think the same about Collison. I don't think we are using him correctly and playing to his strengths. He is asked to play very differently to what makes him most effective!

Isn't it safe to say that no one has been used correctly by Karl on this team except Rondo up until recently?

Cousins shootung 3s. Gay playing PF. WCS coming off the bench. Collison playing SG. Marco coming off curls and endless screens. Ben being stuck to a set rotation whether he plays well or not.

There is a pattern. So I'm really no up to placing a whole lot of blame on any one player for what's going on with them. I've not even advocated trading Marco, despite how bad he's shot.

Ben - I'm just going to say that fans need a scapegoat when things aren't right in the win/loss column. He has increased his numbers across the board from last year. His passing has improved. Ball handing has improved. Driving to the basket has improved. He's a player that is developing. There is no magic switch fans keep talking about. There is only improving parts of your game. Need a scapegoat, he's thr easiest target. But truth is, he's putting up average SG numbers despite still being on a normal NBA learning curve.
 
Isn't it safe to say that no one has been used correctly by Karl on this team except Rondo up until recently?

Cousins shootung 3s. Gay playing PF. WCS coming off the bench. Collison playing SG. Marco coming off curls and endless screens. Ben being stuck to a set rotation whether he plays well or not.

There is a pattern. So I'm really no up to placing a whole lot of blame on any one player for what's going on with them. I've not even advocated trading Marco, despite how bad he's shot.

Ben - I'm just going to say that fans need a scapegoat when things aren't right in the win/loss column. He has increased his numbers across the board from last year. His passing has improved. Ball handing has improved. Driving to the basket has improved. He's a player that is developing. There is no magic switch fans keep talking about. There is only improving parts of your game. Need a scapegoat, he's thr easiest target. But truth is, he's putting up average SG numbers despite still being on a normal NBA learning curve.

Casspi? I dare say Koufos is being used the right way... I'm not sure how else you'd like him to be played.
 
Casspi? I dare say Koufos is being used the right way... I'm not sure how else you'd like him to be played.

That's fine. I didn't go down the whole roster. My point remains that there have been enough misused players to make it a legitimate concern.
 
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a detailed examination of the elements or structure of something, typically as a basis for discussion or interpretation... its not rocket science dude.
 
Isn't it safe to say that no one has been used correctly by Karl on this team except Rondo up until recently?

Cousins shootung 3s. Gay playing PF. WCS coming off the bench. Collison playing SG. Marco coming off curls and endless screens. Ben being stuck to a set rotation whether he plays well or not.

There is a pattern. So I'm really no up to placing a whole lot of blame on any one player for what's going on with them. I've not even advocated trading Marco, despite how bad he's shot.

Ben - I'm just going to say that fans need a scapegoat when things aren't right in the win/loss column. He has increased his numbers across the board from last year. His passing has improved. Ball handing has improved. Driving to the basket has improved. He's a player that is developing. There is no magic switch fans keep talking about. There is only improving parts of your game. Need a scapegoat, he's thr easiest target. But truth is, he's putting up average SG numbers despite still being on a normal NBA learning curve.
I wouldn't say no one as there are certainly players that are getting used correctly. Guys like Koufus, Casspi, etc but there is a pattern of key guys not getting used correctly. Cousins, until recently was a camped at the 3PT line. Rudy is not being used to his strengths. Marco is not being used properly, Collison.Its sort of a 50-50 proposition.
 
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