Evans - PG or SG? And yes, it's this again...

NME said:
Or how Al Gore felt trying to convince the residents of South Park about the existence of the Manbearpig.

manbearpig.jpg
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I think you just won the thread. :D :D
 
Tetsujin said:
FYI, Galileo wasn't the one who first suggested a heliocentric model. That was Copernicus.

Do you realize how much Kobe sucked during his first year in the NBA? Do you see how good 'Reke is doing in his first year? By no means am I trying to compare the two rookie situations but, dammit, if your going to compare Kobe in his prime to 'Reke as a rookie of course Kobe's going to come out on top since he has PLAYED MORE GAMES and is FULLY DEVELOPED. It's kind of like comparing a Caterpillar to a butterfly.

In regards to the Heat and Wade, who the hell handles the ball over there? It sure as hell isn't Mario Chalmers. Wade is the showrunner of that team and I would consider, the point guard of the Heat.
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i know but he was the first to see the universe through the telescope... he was smart enough to keep his mouth shut in the beginning before he finally opened it and was put under house arrest.

kobe didnt get the chance to do what evans is doing in his rookie season. the only other players to get this kind of freedom are lebron and chris paul. martins injury was a gift from god to evans....

the heat dont have a pg at all... chalmers had a brain fart and arroyo hasnt played well at all... wade isnt playing pg, he's scoring his *** off and passing it if he is doubled/tripled away from the basket.
 
Widowmaker2k said:
At this point, I don't give a damn if Evans is a point guard or a shooting guard, so long as he's the shortest player in the starting lineup.



Please share more pearls of wisdom o great and generous one. We are honored that you have graced us with your presence. We're not worthy. :rolleyes:
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now youre getting it, lol... :cool:
 
AriesMar27 said:
how many laker games do you watch? kobe plays as much pg as sergio plays center... when he gets the ball he has 2 choices, shoot with a man in his face or shoot with 2 men in his face. he passes the ball for one of two reasons, to get a better shot for himself or the defense wants a laker scrub to beat them. he'll pass it a few times, if they make the shots he'll try it every other possession until the opposing team catches up or takes the lead and then he's back to scoring whenever he wants.

as far as what i was talking about with brick was the fact that i said that thompson, hawes and greene had struggled in the last game. he replied that they struggled their way to 109 points... i just pointed out that they combined for 20 points with a horrendous fg%.




i still dont see how any of you watch kings games and see evans as a pg. he looks like a sg, plays like a sg and can only be defended by sg/sf...



so basically what you are saying is that tyreke plays like an elite sg? but you want him a pg so that he can be guarded by players half a foot shorter than he is. why doesnt he just play sg and be really good at it? oh yeah, martin... and then theres garcia, omri and greene... the fact that we can force teams to put their pg on evans doesnt make evans a pg.

now i know how galileo felt trying to explain to people that the earth revolved around the sun. we are looking at the same things but are coming to 2 different conclusions. i see a 6'6 player scoring at will and see a sg, you see it and see a pg....

thats why i brought up kobe, he could play at pg and his game wouldnt change... though some of the other lakers would stand around looking lost. phil would lose his mind having to yell at kobe to pass the ball to pau to get the offense running. thats why they have had so many close games this season, fisher has been playing horrible so kobe has been trying to run the the show. thanx to some kobe heroics the lakers are still the best team in basketball record wise... kobe has won the games that evans has lost. obviously, kobe is much better than evans... but thats how its gone down. i dont think evans will be kobe level good but they do play the same way, evans just cant shoot the ball yet. evans is a s much of a pg as kobe and wade.... more like joe johnson and roy than kobe and wade but the bottom line is that he isnt a pg. a damn good player but not a pg.
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Bottom line is, you're wrong. You can keep trying to convince people to "see the light" and every time the starting lineups are announced, get out your sharpie and scribble 'not a' right in front of PG, but the fact remains. Tyreke Evans is our point guard. We will never have a Nash, Deron, CP3 or Chauncey, so if that is what you expect, move on. Think what you want, but Tyreke is a point guard and he redefines the position as he plays it.
 
venom_7 said:
Bottom line is, you're wrong. You can keep trying to convince people to "see the light" and every time the starting lineups are announced, get out your sharpie and scribble 'not a' right in front of PG, but the fact remains. Tyreke Evans is our point guard. We will never have a Nash, Deron, CP3 or Chauncey, so if that is what you expect, move on. Think what you want, but Tyreke is a point guard and he redefines the position as he plays it.
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Exactly!!!

:D
 
OK, now we're cooking!
If we sum up all of the above we can establish the following:
1. Ball has to be in Tyrekes hands a lot, for him to be affective. He likes to dominate the ball. No argument there.
2. Next, his game should go in direction of Kobes, Wades or even MJs. I don't see anybody on this board saying that Rekes game should remind us of Payton, Kidd, Williams, Nash etc... See the pattern? First 3 are SGs, last 4 not so much.
3. MJ, Kobe even Wade had or have help at PG spot. Not a dominant one who likes to hog the ball, but somebody who is reliable, can bring the ball over, create his own shot and above all plays hard nosed defense. Ron Harpers clone would be perfect for that job. But I guess I'm ahead of the time with that one. Our current PGs are meshing with Evans quite good at the offensive end of the court. I don't like that other half of their job. Kings defense is sub-par at the moment.
4. Lack of concept. People here have tendency to sum up players averages and think that they would get some out of mind offense that would score about 130 per game. Wrong! Coach PW will have to adapt his offense to incorporate players that are coming back from injuries. Some players will be disappointed and that can affect the locker room. Coaching staff will have to find the way, how to get the best out of everybody and that is no picnic. Sometimes pieces just don't fit. I have to say, I have my doubts.
I expect some trades.



And at the end, just to pee off some of you. Evans is an SG!:D
 
ZZ-TOP said:
OK, now we're cooking!
If we sum up all of the above we can establish the following:
1. Ball has to be in Tyrekes hands a lot, for him to be affective. He likes to dominate the ball. No argument there.
2. Next, his game should go in direction of Kobes, Wades or even MJs. I don't see anybody on this board saying that Rekes game should remind us of Payton, Kidd, Williams, Nash etc... See the pattern? First 3 are SGs, last 4 not so much.
3. MJ, Kobe even Wade had or have help at PG spot. Not a dominant one who likes to hog the ball, but somebody who is reliable, can bring the ball over, create his own shot and above all plays hard nosed defense. Ron Harpers clone would be perfect for that job. But I guess I'm ahead of the time with that one. Our current PGs are meshing with Evans quite good at the offensive end of the court. I don't like that other half of their job. Kings defense is sub-par at the moment.
4. Lack of concept. People here have tendency to sum up players averages and think that they would get some out of mind offense that would score about 130 per game. Wrong! Coach PW will have to adapt his offense to incorporate players that are coming back from injuries. Some players will be disappointed and that can affect the locker room. Coaching staff will have to find the way, how to get the best out of everybody and that is no picnic. Sometimes pieces just don't fit. I have to say, I have my doubts.
I expect some trades.



And at the end, just to pee off some of you. Evans is an SG!:D
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How about Magic Johnson? He was 6'10" and a point guard. No one can claim otherwise there
 
Tetsujin said:
How about Magic Johnson? He was 6'10" and a point guard. No one can claim otherwise there
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When Tyreke grows to 6'10", I say play him at the point guard.:p
On a serious note. Are you saying that Reke has Magics passing abilities, court vision and awareness?


I didn't think so.
 
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AriesMar27 said:
how many laker games do you watch? kobe plays as much pg as sergio plays center... when he gets the ball he has 2 choices, shoot with a man in his face or shoot with 2 men in his face. he passes the ball for one of two reasons, to get a better shot for himself or the defense wants a laker scrub to beat them. he'll pass it a few times, if they make the shots he'll try it every other possession until the opposing team catches up or takes the lead and then he's back to scoring whenever he wants.

as far as what i was talking about with brick was the fact that i said that thompson, hawes and greene had struggled in the last game. he replied that they struggled their way to 109 points... i just pointed out that they combined for 20 points with a horrendous fg%.




i still dont see how any of you watch kings games and see evans as a pg. he looks like a sg, plays like a sg and can only be defended by sg/sf...



so basically what you are saying is that tyreke plays like an elite sg? but you want him a pg so that he can be guarded by players half a foot shorter than he is. why doesnt he just play sg and be really good at it? oh yeah, martin... and then theres garcia, omri and greene... the fact that we can force teams to put their pg on evans doesnt make evans a pg.

now i know how galileo felt trying to explain to people that the earth revolved around the sun. we are looking at the same things but are coming to 2 different conclusions. i see a 6'6 player scoring at will and see a sg, you see it and see a pg....

thats why i brought up kobe, he could play at pg and his game wouldnt change... though some of the other lakers would stand around looking lost. phil would lose his mind having to yell at kobe to pass the ball to pau to get the offense running. thats why they have had so many close games this season, fisher has been playing horrible so kobe has been trying to run the the show. thanx to some kobe heroics the lakers are still the best team in basketball record wise... kobe has won the games that evans has lost. obviously, kobe is much better than evans... but thats how its gone down. i dont think evans will be kobe level good but they do play the same way, evans just cant shoot the ball yet. evans is a s much of a pg as kobe and wade.... more like joe johnson and roy than kobe and wade but the bottom line is that he isnt a pg. a damn good player but not a pg.
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So if a guy is 6'6 and can score at will he's automatically a SG? If he was 6'2 and doing the same stuff would you consider him a PG then?
 
Reke is a SG, combo guard at best. Roy sets up teammates better and he doesn't even play PG.

Let's be outfront and honest here:

The Reke as a PG thing is a PR and matchup gimmick.

1. It doesn't bruise KMarts ego or make fans question why the team drafted a SG when they already had one. Until you can make the pieces fit, you talk like Reke is a PG.

2. By making the other teams PG defend Reke, it makes his game easier and creates matchup problems. At times, quicker 1s like CP3 and Parker have burned Reke, but he can still defend most PGs.

But those two factors don't make him a PG, they just disguise him as one for temporary purposes. He doesn't have the PG mentality, the PG brain. He isn't a second coach out on the floor. He clogs the lane and then passes it to the big men, who have to go up in traffic. Compare that to CP3, Nash, whatever. There is just certain qualities he lacks, and thats fine since he can be a great combo guard. The problem is you still need a passer/coach/brain out there with him.

The greater problem is you are making Tyreke's game ultimately harder by making him the only PG out there by asking him to go out of his comfort zone and putting him in spots on the floor where he is not his most dangerous. You also imbalance the team, which is not appropriate for success.
 
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swisshh said:
The greater problem is you are making Tyreke's game ultimately harder by making him the only PG out there by asking him to go out of his comfort zone and putting him in spots on the floor where he is not his most dangerous. You also imbalance the team, which is not appropriate for success.
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I couldn't disagree with this more.

We've seen a Beno/Tyreke, a Sergio/Tyreke, and a Beno/Sergio/Tyreke lineup on the floor.

To avoid arguments let's say that when Beno or Serio is on the floor with Tyreke that Tyreke is the SG.

Now here is the question:

When Beno or Sergio is in the lineup with Tyreke, how many baskets does Tyreke get while being set up by either Beno or Sergio? I'm not talking fast break points, I'm talking about set half-court offense.

I'd say that answer is very close to 0. If they do get an assist it is almost always from a beneath-the-basket inbounds play.

The fact of the matter is that neither Beno or Sergio get assists by setting up Tyreke in half-court sets. The reason being: Tyreke's game is not remotely suited to being an off-the-ball offensive player.

This is one of the reasons why you don't see Sergio play a lot with Tyreke on the court. Sergio isn't a great shooter, while Beno is. So Beno can benefit from Tyreke making the defense collapse on him to get good shots. Sergio on the other hand can't take as much advantage of that, and on the other side, Sergio's game doesn't really help Tyreke score either, it just takes the ball out of Tyreke's hands.

So unless Tyreke's off-the-ball game grows in leaps-and-bounds, having a pure PG along-side him does neither player any good. If you're going to bring in a smaller player along side Tyreke and negate the mismatch, that smaller player has to be a great shooter to take advantage when Tyreke draws the defense towards himself.

When I see Tyreke and Beno on the floor together, I see Tyreke set up Beno far more than Beno setting up Tyreke. This is why I usually consider Tyreke the PG when both them are playing together.
 
Evans is a SG that can play well as a PG. He is, a natural SG. But I still think he's fine at the PG position. Will see in a few years how the PG skills are. In other words, Combo guard.

and the point of this was...?
 
mac said:
Evans is a SG that can play well as a PG. He is, a natural SG. But I still think he's fine at the PG position. Will see in a few years how the PG skills are. In other words, Combo guard.

and the point of this was...?
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This is a message board. Do your math.

:p Kidding!

Killing time is the name of the game.;)
 
Tetsujin said:
At this point you're just arguing with yourself and not making much sense. GO back to your Lakers board and gush about Kobe over there. Frankly the Kobe love is beginning to make me sick (I feel like I ate a tainted room service cheese burger). FYI, Galileo wasn't the one who first suggested a heliocentric model. That was Copernicus.

Do you realize how much Kobe sucked during his first year in the NBA? Do you see how good 'Reke is doing in his first year? By no means am I trying to compare the two rookie situations but, dammit, if your going to compare Kobe in his prime to 'Reke as a rookie of course Kobe's going to come out on top since he has PLAYED MORE GAMES and is FULLY DEVELOPED. It's kind of like comparing a Caterpillar to a butterfly.

In regards to the Heat and Wade, who the hell handles the ball over there? It sure as hell isn't Mario Chalmers. Wade is the showrunner of that team and I would consider, the point guard of the Heat.
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Great post. Thread winner. Love the venom, btw.
 
OnYouLikeGlue said:
So if a guy is 6'6 and can score at will he's automatically a SG? If he was 6'2 and doing the same stuff would you consider him a PG then?
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Allen iverson, Ben Gordon, Quincy douby.... Yes.... With the exception of magic and big O, yes.... 6'6 players who score like that are elite level sg's... I have no problem calling tyreke a future elite level sg, but a pg? I honestly believe that Evans will be a better sg than most of you think he'll be as a 6'6 pg....

He'll need to develop a jumpshot first, but yeah....
 
AriesMar27 said:
Allen iverson, Ben Gordon, Quincy douby.... Yes.... With the exception of magic and big O, yes.... 6'6 players who score like that are elite level sg's... I have no problem calling tyreke a future elite level sg, but a pg? I honestly believe that Evans will be a better sg than most of you think he'll be as a 6'6 pg....

He'll need to develop a jumpshot first, but yeah....
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Did you honestly just compare Quincy Douby to Ben Gordon and AI?

And why exactly can't Evans be an exception like Magic and Big O?

Just because he looks like a SG doesn't mean he's an SG. I mean Hawes looks like a center (a skinny one at that) but he plays like a SF. Sometimes, you can't judge a book by its cover.
 
The point being made is that Tyreke is the main reason we are where we are, and he is playing phenomenally for anybody, let alone a rookie. But some of us are trying to say that he does not posess the PG traits - look for teammates more than own shot, be a floor leader, move people around. I don't know how to explain it... you look at Chris Paul play (not comparing, just trying to show difference in play) and you can see that it's like chess for him. He's moving the pieces, always thinks 3 plays ahead, you never know if he's going to go for the kill or the sick pass, so on. Watching Tyreke play, it seems like he is going off instinct - that instinct is to score. When he sets teammates up, it's usually off the dribble or when he bulldozes and twists into the lane, drawing help. I think AM takes it to the extreme, and no, we don't have to classify players, but I think that Tyreke is as much a PG as Brandon Roy is, only Tyreke has even MORE responsibility.
 
And you just hit the nail on the head. The pg is the position that carries the biggest load of responsibility on the team, they have to lead, they have to assist, they have to win. I think the argument about whether or not Tyreke is a pg by the definition of some random pg defining book is moot. We are not stuck in the 1960's where everything that was defined then still carries the same definition today. It's like saying that you can't call a laptop a computer because a computer is a desktop and nothing else. I think the real answer to whether or not Tyreke is a pg would be answered by whether or not he leads his team to victory, and so far he is doing a damn good job of it both at the professional level and at the collegiate level.

I don't think the people arguing against Tyreke being a pg actually get it. They are so caught up in whether or not he fits the classic description of the Bob Cousy pg definition that they are getting lost in the fact that the bottom line is wins and losses and having Tyreke play the pg position and dominate it is what puts us in the best position to win. You can argue with them until your head spins around and falls off, but they will never give it up, because they have their mind set in one way of thinking and there is no changing it. Not even if having Reke at your pg position brings you a championship. Insanity is arguing against results, but they somehow find a way to do it. Speaks volumes.
 
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Kingsguy881 said:
And you just hit the nail on the head. The pg is the position that carries the biggest load of responsibility on the team, they have to lead, they have to assist, they have to win. I think the argument about whether or not Tyreke is a pg by the definition of some random pg defining book is moot. We are not stuck in the 1960's where everything that was defined then still carries the same definition today. It's like saying that you can't call a laptop a computer because a computer is a desktop and nothing else. I think the real answer to whether or not Tyreke is a pg would be answered by whether or not he leads his team to victory, and so far he is doing a damn good job of it both at the professional level and at the collegiate level.

I don't think the people arguing against Tyreke being a pg actually get it. They are so caught up in whether or not he fits the classic description of the Bob Cousy pg definition that they are getting lost in the fact that the bottom line is wins and losses and having Tyreke play the pg position and dominate it is what puts us in the best position to win. You can argue with them until your head spins around and falls off, but they will never give it up, because they have their mind set in one way of thinking and there is no changing it. Not even if having Reke at your pg position brings you a championship. Insanity is arguing against results, but they somehow find a way to do it. Speaks volumes.
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But but but Tyreke isn't a short white guy! He can't be a PG!
 
I think if we start him at the PG positon he is a PG.

If we move him to the SG position he is a SG.
 
this discussion has reached a saturation point. it is a troll topic from now on as far as I'm concerned. it matters zero.
 
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