Eurobasket-Belgrade 2005.
- Thread starter Peja
- Start date
AleksandarN said:
This picture pretty much says it all
I deliberately didn't post here before I cooled down so I wouldn't offend other people here and quite possibly get banned for bad language.
Obradovic blames the players (and he is partly right) but he is the person that picked those players. He is a coach and he needed to set the record straight, its either my way or the highway. He is not strong enough to demand discipline from players. He just doesn't know how to do it. I have long been of belief that Obradovic is one of the most over-rated coaches in our history. He has been a beneficiary of unbelievable golden generation who practically didn't need a coach, because they could coach themselves. Those players came through the junior ranks together and stayed together, Players like Djordjevic, Danilovic, Bodiroga, Savic, Divac, Rebraca, Paspalj etc.. have all got along well and they were actually that good that they could practically coach themselves. Whenever, Obradovic has won something he has had someone as his right hand man. That someone is Duda Ivkovic who is one of the best tactical brains going around. Without him Obradovic is lost on the big stage representing his country.
Obradovic is the coach that doesn't move with times. He is a stubborn, egoistic maniac who thinks he knows everything.
Players will always behave this way if they are allowed to. Jaric has always been known as a bit of an up himself bastard. Radmanovic has always been an arrogant prick who thinks his shot doesn't stink. For Tomasevic to actually get worked up enough to get into physical confrontation with someone, lets just say it would take a hell of a lot. He is one of the most laid back people around. People even call him super softie. My point is in 2002 we practically had a similar squad to this one. Back then we didn't have a true PG but we had a great shooter and someone who was prepared to dod the dirty work in the paint (Koturovic). So whats changed? People bagged Pesic when he was a coach of the NT but the fact is this wouldn't happen with Pesic. Players would either be there to bleed for the national team or they would be out the door. Jaric was coming off the bench for Pesic and didn't complain. Radmanovic was 12th man who was complaining at the lack of playing time and while the coach was addressing him at half time he was eating a banana. Pesic didn't even allow him to sit on the bench in the second half. He was up in the stands.
Players will always behave this way of given a chance but you need a strong coach to pull them in line and give them a flick behind the ears now and then to remind then why they are there. Its sad when these drongos treat games for the NT as pick up games. I don't know how they can look one of the all time great in Bodiroga in the eye now. This was his last tournament for the NT and the least he deserved was for his team mates to show some heart and effort and try and send him off in the way he deserved. This way he was sent off with nothing but better memories. A real shame.
PS. Sorry for the long post but I had to get it off my chest.
Not once was Ivkovic next to Obradovic when he won his 5 European titles. Aleksandar Nikolic maybe, but not Ivkovic.
Again, there were other people who were offered to coach before Obradovic, and they refused the offer (Maljkovic said NO, and Pesic and Ivkovic had said goodbye some time ago). I don't think Dusko Ivanovic would have coached and he certainly woudln't get any more respect than Obradovic. They both have a reputation of being strict coaches, but Obradovic is much more successful. The only other one is Tanjevic, but he's coaching Turkey. Go figure... who do you want instead ? Zeravica ? Vujosevic ?
Again, there were other people who were offered to coach before Obradovic, and they refused the offer (Maljkovic said NO, and Pesic and Ivkovic had said goodbye some time ago). I don't think Dusko Ivanovic would have coached and he certainly woudln't get any more respect than Obradovic. They both have a reputation of being strict coaches, but Obradovic is much more successful. The only other one is Tanjevic, but he's coaching Turkey. Go figure... who do you want instead ? Zeravica ? Vujosevic ?
For those Americans who are badmouthing him without knowing who the man is.
Look at his stats...
http://www.euroleague.net/noticia.jsp?temporada=E00&jornada=24&id=44
Look at his stats...
http://www.euroleague.net/noticia.jsp?temporada=E00&jornada=24&id=44
I'll have to disagree with this. Tomasevic is one of the biggest on the court / off the court psychopaths that I've ever watched. He is perhaps the only dirty player on the squad, but he is super dirty. There were many times where you could see that his sole purpose on the court is to hit someone. You could see it when he went insane like that in the Olympics several times. Not to mention his dirty mouth, I've never heard more curse words in my life than the one time I was watching him play for Partizan against Zorka Sabac.
Not that that's a bad thing, we could have used a player like that BIG TIME, but I'm just saying that he is by no means a gentle and weak person or player. For those who don't know, but care, Tomasevic was on the team but did not play because of injury.
Not that that's a bad thing, we could have used a player like that BIG TIME, but I'm just saying that he is by no means a gentle and weak person or player. For those who don't know, but care, Tomasevic was on the team but did not play because of injury.
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Let me ask you this. What did he do in Sydney? Obradovic is not a good player coach period. He played to lose against France even you would have to admit that. Where was Darko when we needed defense in the paint? What happen in Sydney in 2000. Why did Pedja not want to play for him? Obradovic has the biggest ego in Serbian basketball. I do not care about his record with his former club teams and our golden generation his ego help cause this mess. IT was like he wanted to lose against France.
Stojakovic did not play because it would not be fair to other players. No matter how much of a star he is, I don't think that one player should be above the team and team rules. Even if that means that the team will lose talentwise, the players should follow coach's rules. Pedja wasn't going to be late a day or two, he would have joined the team 3 or 4 weeks later.
Obradovic is a great coach, but apparently not such a good team manager. He knows basketball, but he doesn't know people, and he doesn't know how to deal with people who won't obey what he sets up. That's a major trait, no question about that, but we never had such problems before. The players came to player for the national team and they gave there all without the coach asking them to do so. Now it's all about the money, the fame, the individual. Just like the NBA. That's why other teams wooped us. It's exactly the same problem that team USA faces every time, and it's not an easy one to fix.
Obradovic is a great coach, but apparently not such a good team manager. He knows basketball, but he doesn't know people, and he doesn't know how to deal with people who won't obey what he sets up. That's a major trait, no question about that, but we never had such problems before. The players came to player for the national team and they gave there all without the coach asking them to do so. Now it's all about the money, the fame, the individual. Just like the NBA. That's why other teams wooped us. It's exactly the same problem that team USA faces every time, and it's not an easy one to fix.
I really don't know where are you going with this. It is entirely possible for a coach to be a great coach to a point and then tank out and not be able to handle it. The fact remains that Obradovic was for quite along time one of the top coaches in Europe if not the World. Then he wasn't. And now he isn't and he is not really dealing with it very well.
As far as NT goes, it breaks down like this: In the nineties, with the last generation of "old School" Yugoslavian players he won almost every time. Starting in 2000, Serbia only won in a brief period that Obradovic (or Vujosevic in his brief stint) was not a coach. We will find a coach that can deal with the new situation and we will succeed again with some of the young players who embarrassed us this week. Mind you, some of them I did not like even before the EC debacl and some of them should never get called up again.
As far as NT goes, it breaks down like this: In the nineties, with the last generation of "old School" Yugoslavian players he won almost every time. Starting in 2000, Serbia only won in a brief period that Obradovic (or Vujosevic in his brief stint) was not a coach. We will find a coach that can deal with the new situation and we will succeed again with some of the young players who embarrassed us this week. Mind you, some of them I did not like even before the EC debacl and some of them should never get called up again.
You still did not really understand the relationship between Pedja and Obradovic and what happen in Sydney do you? If you still blame Pedja for not playing what more evidence do you need. Also what happen against France was his(Obradovic) fault as much as it was the players fault. What happen to Darko? It look to me he wanted to lose the game to teach the players a leason. If that is not a trait of an egomanitic then I do not know what one is. He put his ego above the sucess of the team in Serbia no less. This does not excuse the fact that he lost to France because of tatical play. He wanted to lose. It is sad that he would resort this level and still did not put the blame on his self. Look at happen to Turkey and there chemistry problem. This is what coach Tanjevic(Serbian coach of the Turkey NT) said “If there must be a guilty one, that’s me”. You would never see Obradovic say this because of his giantic ego.
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I would have believed that if it were not for the fact that our best interior defender was sitting on the bench the whole game and only played 10 seconds. Not using Darko in this game costs us and I knew and Obradovic certianly knew if going by how "good" of coach Sloter thinks he is. So what is worse a coach who is not bright enough to see what adjustments are needed to win or a coach who wants his team to lose to prove a point. Both of the types are losers in my book and the later being the biggest one. So Sloter and or anyone for that matter let me ask you this: which one is Obradovic?
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I agree that Darko should have played more, but it's easy to say that now... it's not like he's really any better than Krstic or Rebraca. The lineup that France had was made out of people who were 6'7 and slashed to the rim every time.
God help us all if we depend on Milicic to save the national team.
God help us all if we depend on Milicic to save the national team.
Well, he wasn't a terrible tactician when we got to a 15 point lead and started missing open shots and free throws.
I'm telling you, you can ***** at Obradovic as much as you want. Unless the name behind the team is Pesic or Maljkovic or Ivkovic (see: mission impossible) the results will not be significantly better.
Get over it, we are not the team we used to be.
I'm telling you, you can ***** at Obradovic as much as you want. Unless the name behind the team is Pesic or Maljkovic or Ivkovic (see: mission impossible) the results will not be significantly better.
Get over it, we are not the team we used to be.
not breaking news, but interesting/sad anyway...
http://hoopshype.com/interviews/krstic_sierra3.htm
[font=Tahoma, Arial, Verdana]Nenad Krstic: "Everybody wanted to be the MVP"[/font]
[font=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]by Jorge Sierra / September 22, 2005[/font]
[font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]
How do you feel after being eliminated so early in the Eurobasket?[/font]
[font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Nenad Krstic: I feel very disappointed. Everybody expected us to win a gold medal, but we played very bad and the disappointment is great in all of our nation. At this moment, it's a very bad situation. I don't know. At this moment, it is very bad. Very bad.[/font]
[font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]What went wrong for this to happen?[/font]
[font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]NK: [/font][font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]The atmosphere. You know, because we had a lot of stars on our team – NBA players and European players. We had a couple of guys who had been playing on the National Team for 10 years. On the other side, there were players like me or like Darko or Radmanovic that have been just a couple of times, very few years with the National Team. We had younger and and older guys and the attitude was not so good. Besides, we had a lot of pressure because we were playing in our country and everybody was expecting the best. It's very hard, but I think we had the best team in the European Championship. We had very good players, but I don't know... [/font]
[font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]What was the reason for the atmosphere to be so bad? Was it that you had young guys on one side and the veterans on the other side, or was it that there were bad apples on the team?[/font]
[font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]NK: Yes... We didn't have a leader. We didn't have a guy in the locker room that was a leader. A couple of years ago, we had a guy like Vlade Divac. Other times maybe Sasha Djordjevic. We didn't have that. At this time, we didn't have that. So maybe there is a problem there. Everybody wanted to be the best player, so maybe... It's very hard. But I tried to do everything and the coach tried to do everything he could. He spoke to everybody – before practice, after practice... It's very hard. I can't explain. It's very difficult now... I can't explain.[/font]
[font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]How did the players take all the criticism from coach Zeljko Obradovic [Obradovic said players hated each other and would go mad if he stayed with the team more time] after the game against France?[/font]
[font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]NK: [/font][font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]I don't know because I didn't speak with the players after the coach said all that. But I can say that some things of what he said were right and some things were wrong. I think he should have said that before this game and the European Championships, not now that Serbia is eliminated. So I think... That's my opinion. Like, if you said something, say it before it's over. He should have done something about all that before. Do something to stop it.[/font]
[font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Can you tell me exactly what happened in the locker room after the game against France? Were things as ugly as Obradovic said, with players fighting?[/font]
[font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]NK: [/font][font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Of course, everything he said it's true. That's the truth. There was not a big, big fight like... Well, I can't find the word. Not a great fight. But there was pushing and everything. People yelling at each other. Players getting mad, you know. But we stayed in the locker room for one hour and a half after the game, you know. And I think that was the worst moment of my career for me. It's very hard.[/font]
[font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]How would you rate your own performance in the tournament?[/font]
[font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]NK: [/font][font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]I'm not in right shape right now because I had a surgery before the tournament. But, you know, I played just 15 minutes per game. It's not, like you say... I was not the man. I just made certain things – the pick-and-rolls and did the right things... But it was a hard situation because on the team it was like everybody wanted to be the MVP. It was hard to play.[/font]
[font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]You were not happy with your role on the team?[/font]
[font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]NK: [/font][font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Hmmmm... What can I say? When you win, no matter what role you play, you are happy. If you lose, nobody is happy. So I got to say now that had we won the European Championship, there would not be as much criticism now, with people saying that we went out too much. But now, when we've lost, everybody is saying bad things about us.[/font]
[font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Let's talk a little bit about the NBA now. Training camp with the Nets starts in a couple of weeks. Are you going to the United States now or will you wait a little bit?[/font]
[font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]NK: [/font][font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]I'm going next Wednesday. I'm a little bit tired after playing here. Mentally tired. I'm not physically tired because I was just playing like 15 minutes per game in the tournament. Not a big deal. I will just take a break of one week and prepare myself for another NBA season.[/font]
[font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]How do you feel about the moves New Jersey has made this summer?[/font]
[font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]NK: [/font][font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]They are doing a great job. We have a good team – Jason Kidd, Vince Carter, Richard Jefferson... They took Marc Jackson, I think. I spent the summer in Serbia, so I haven't talked a lot to the guys down there. But Marc Jackson, McInnis, the first-round pick we got... I think we'll have a very good team.[/font]
[font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]What should be the goal for New Jersey this season?[/font]
[font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]NK: [/font][font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]It's too early to say, you know. I can't say now because I don't know how the other teams have done. I guess we'll have to wait. I don't know now.[/font]
[font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Because of the way you played in your rookie year, many people think you have All-Star potential. Do you see yourself as a future All-Star?[/font]
[font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]NK: [/font][font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif](Laughs) I don't know. I hope so. I'll try to make it, but it's very hard to be an All-Star in the NBA. I wanna play, you know. I just want to play with Jason Kidd and guys like Jefferson and the other guys. That's an honor. It's very hard to be an All-Star. And I don't think too much about being in the All-Star Game, anyway.[/font]
http://hoopshype.com/interviews/krstic_sierra3.htm
[font=Tahoma, Arial, Verdana]Nenad Krstic: "Everybody wanted to be the MVP"[/font]
[font=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]by Jorge Sierra / September 22, 2005[/font]
[font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]
[font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Nenad Krstic: I feel very disappointed. Everybody expected us to win a gold medal, but we played very bad and the disappointment is great in all of our nation. At this moment, it's a very bad situation. I don't know. At this moment, it is very bad. Very bad.[/font]
[font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]What went wrong for this to happen?[/font]
[font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]NK: [/font][font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]The atmosphere. You know, because we had a lot of stars on our team – NBA players and European players. We had a couple of guys who had been playing on the National Team for 10 years. On the other side, there were players like me or like Darko or Radmanovic that have been just a couple of times, very few years with the National Team. We had younger and and older guys and the attitude was not so good. Besides, we had a lot of pressure because we were playing in our country and everybody was expecting the best. It's very hard, but I think we had the best team in the European Championship. We had very good players, but I don't know... [/font]
[font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]What was the reason for the atmosphere to be so bad? Was it that you had young guys on one side and the veterans on the other side, or was it that there were bad apples on the team?[/font]
[font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]NK: Yes... We didn't have a leader. We didn't have a guy in the locker room that was a leader. A couple of years ago, we had a guy like Vlade Divac. Other times maybe Sasha Djordjevic. We didn't have that. At this time, we didn't have that. So maybe there is a problem there. Everybody wanted to be the best player, so maybe... It's very hard. But I tried to do everything and the coach tried to do everything he could. He spoke to everybody – before practice, after practice... It's very hard. I can't explain. It's very difficult now... I can't explain.[/font]
[font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]How did the players take all the criticism from coach Zeljko Obradovic [Obradovic said players hated each other and would go mad if he stayed with the team more time] after the game against France?[/font]
[font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]NK: [/font][font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]I don't know because I didn't speak with the players after the coach said all that. But I can say that some things of what he said were right and some things were wrong. I think he should have said that before this game and the European Championships, not now that Serbia is eliminated. So I think... That's my opinion. Like, if you said something, say it before it's over. He should have done something about all that before. Do something to stop it.[/font]
[font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Can you tell me exactly what happened in the locker room after the game against France? Were things as ugly as Obradovic said, with players fighting?[/font]
[font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]NK: [/font][font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Of course, everything he said it's true. That's the truth. There was not a big, big fight like... Well, I can't find the word. Not a great fight. But there was pushing and everything. People yelling at each other. Players getting mad, you know. But we stayed in the locker room for one hour and a half after the game, you know. And I think that was the worst moment of my career for me. It's very hard.[/font]
[font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]How would you rate your own performance in the tournament?[/font]
[font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]NK: [/font][font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]I'm not in right shape right now because I had a surgery before the tournament. But, you know, I played just 15 minutes per game. It's not, like you say... I was not the man. I just made certain things – the pick-and-rolls and did the right things... But it was a hard situation because on the team it was like everybody wanted to be the MVP. It was hard to play.[/font]
[font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]You were not happy with your role on the team?[/font]
[font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]NK: [/font][font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Hmmmm... What can I say? When you win, no matter what role you play, you are happy. If you lose, nobody is happy. So I got to say now that had we won the European Championship, there would not be as much criticism now, with people saying that we went out too much. But now, when we've lost, everybody is saying bad things about us.[/font]
[font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Let's talk a little bit about the NBA now. Training camp with the Nets starts in a couple of weeks. Are you going to the United States now or will you wait a little bit?[/font]
[font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]NK: [/font][font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]I'm going next Wednesday. I'm a little bit tired after playing here. Mentally tired. I'm not physically tired because I was just playing like 15 minutes per game in the tournament. Not a big deal. I will just take a break of one week and prepare myself for another NBA season.[/font]
[font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]How do you feel about the moves New Jersey has made this summer?[/font]
[font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]NK: [/font][font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]They are doing a great job. We have a good team – Jason Kidd, Vince Carter, Richard Jefferson... They took Marc Jackson, I think. I spent the summer in Serbia, so I haven't talked a lot to the guys down there. But Marc Jackson, McInnis, the first-round pick we got... I think we'll have a very good team.[/font]
[font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]What should be the goal for New Jersey this season?[/font]
[font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]NK: [/font][font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]It's too early to say, you know. I can't say now because I don't know how the other teams have done. I guess we'll have to wait. I don't know now.[/font]
[font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Because of the way you played in your rookie year, many people think you have All-Star potential. Do you see yourself as a future All-Star?[/font]
[font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]NK: [/font][font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif](Laughs) I don't know. I hope so. I'll try to make it, but it's very hard to be an All-Star in the NBA. I wanna play, you know. I just want to play with Jason Kidd and guys like Jefferson and the other guys. That's an honor. It's very hard to be an All-Star. And I don't think too much about being in the All-Star Game, anyway.[/font]
I was watching semifinals today and it was VERY exciting.In the first game Greece played against (damn) France.I was rooting for the Greece not just because France crashed us,Greeks are our brothers
France was better almost whole game but just 5 secs before the end Diamantidis scored behind the arc and moved Greece to the Finals.Result was 67:66.
In the second game Spain played against Germany.Spain was better in the first and Germany in the second half but in the end Germans won by Dirk's shoot just 3 secs before the end of the game.Dirk showed once again how big he really is-74:73
What can we expect tomorow?!Well,German team is practically one man-Dirk and Greeks don't have a superstar but they have team in which every player contribute as much as he can.I don't expect a lot of points but I think game will be exciting and I would like to see the Greeks as a champions in the end...Btw. If Greece win,that will be the first time in the history that one country is european champion in Basketball and Soccer at the same time
France was better almost whole game but just 5 secs before the end Diamantidis scored behind the arc and moved Greece to the Finals.Result was 67:66.
In the second game Spain played against Germany.Spain was better in the first and Germany in the second half but in the end Germans won by Dirk's shoot just 3 secs before the end of the game.Dirk showed once again how big he really is-74:73
What can we expect tomorow?!Well,German team is practically one man-Dirk and Greeks don't have a superstar but they have team in which every player contribute as much as he can.I don't expect a lot of points but I think game will be exciting and I would like to see the Greeks as a champions in the end...Btw. If Greece win,that will be the first time in the history that one country is european champion in Basketball and Soccer at the same time
Hehe.You're right,I was watching that game but I couldn't remember.I saw that on DVD a few days ago.
Well,honestly I can really root just for my country,this is more like a simpathy.I like Greece as a team and on the other side I respect Dirk who showed so many times how big he is,so it doesn't really matter who is going to win,I would like to see good,attractive game tonight
Well,honestly I can really root just for my country,this is more like a simpathy.I like Greece as a team and on the other side I respect Dirk who showed so many times how big he is,so it doesn't really matter who is going to win,I would like to see good,attractive game tonight
maybe this is a wake up call. i got a buddy who was down in belgrade at the time of the competition, and he regularly saw jaric drinkin until the early mornin hours. this wasn't a team. i feel bad for obradovic. he didn't deserve this ****. you can see the players didn't want it. they didn't deserve it either.