Eric Musselman Watch Thread

Some guy named Ron Artest who is pretty good at playing defense has been out the past few games, wonder if that has the slightest to do with our poor defensive outings?:rolleyes:

Or we can just keep blaming Muss.
 
This Trot and Jack up Crap is another story alltogether.
Here is a question I have. Who is responsible for the "Bibby jacks" as I like to call them. It was one thing the last few years when he actually made them, but this year is getting to be rediculous. Is Muss telling him to shoot threes with 18 seconds on the shotclock, or is Bibby deciding to do this on his own? Regardless of who's at fault, it must stop now.
 
I hate both LA teams, i rather not. look i'm not trying to depress anyone but i'm not the only one whos frustrated with Eric Musselman this guy was suppose to improve our defense and its still the samething. i'm sorry if i made this thread at the wrong time.​


Yes, you did.

People are acting like the end of the world is near just because we lost back-to-backs in Texas, and then ORL (who is by far the best team in the East) and Phoenix.

Give Muss a break. He has been using a 6'7" PF and a 6'9" C for most of the year not to mention the lack of depth behind that. Then you add in the fact that injuries have hindered the roles of Bibby and others.

If you expected Muss, or any coach for that matter, to come in and immediately turn a crappy defense around, then you were just dilusional. The same goes for all those other so-called fans who agree with you.

The bottom line is your expectations were un-realistic and they should be modified accordingly. It is going to take time for Muss to find his groove, the players to find theirs, and for GP to upgrade our frontcourt. It is just going to take time.

So while we are waiting it would be nice if the people who are crying about jumping off the bus would just do it and get out of our way.
 
I wasn't here at the time, but was there a "Fire Adelman" thread before the Artest trade?

Didn't things work out from there?

Us fans are never satisfied.
 
I wasn't here at the time, but was there a "Fire Adelman" thread before the Artest trade?

Didn't things work out from there?

Us fans are never satisfied.


Indeed.

Of course you see Rick took Ron Artest, midseason, and immediately turned the team into one that stormed down the stertch with the #8 defense in the league and the 5th best record in the league (or whatever that was).

Muss HAS Ron Artest, not to mention a vastly improved Kevin, and he's got about the 22nd ranked defense and the 11th best record the West, let alone league.

The sky does not have to be falling here, but Muss has proven NOTHING in this league. People were calling for Adelman's head after 7 straight playoff appearances and 5 straight 50 win seasons or whatever. They were foolish, but there it was. And now you get Muss who's never won anything in the NBA, never even been .500, and got canned for losing his last team, and he starts struggling...

Let's just say the questions are legit until he proves they aren't.
 
Last edited:
Word.


Nice avatar BTW. Hopefully the snow this year is going to live up to expectations.

Thanx.
Send me a pm if you come up this year, I have been known to offer hook-ups. ;)

"Let's just say the questions are legit until he proves they aren't"
At this point, I am in agreement.
 
Last edited:
Indeed.

Of course you see Rick took Ron Artest, midseason, and immediately turned the team into one that stormed down the stertch with the #8 defense in the league and the 5th best record in the league (or whatever that was).

Muss HAS Ron Artest, not to mention a vastly improved Kevin, and he's got about the 22nd ranked defense and the 11th best record the West, let alone league.
Has Artest even been completely healthy this year though?
 
People, we've played 17 games. I think Muss deserves more than 17 games to show what he can do. We're about .500 right now and there is no reason to believe that we would be much different, if you had realistic expectations coming into the season. So far we've beaten up on the garbage teams, and lost to the elite teams. I didn't expect us to be much more or less than that.


I'm giving him about 2 years. If the team is not heading the right direction after 2 years, then I would move on.
 
Muss won't last long enoguh to be part of it if he loses. Not after 8 playoffs seasons under Rick and ownership making the change out to be an improvement. I continue to argue that we might do well to miss the playoffs this year and try to get a young stud. But for Muss...losing just isn't going to be tolerated even if Geoff trades Brad for Brain Scalabrine to get more "flexibility". Rick was fired for merely making the playoffs every year but not winning a title. You think Muss is going to be able to survive multiple years of lottery play? No, for himself, not the team, he's got to at least make it close. Debacles, for whatever reason, are going to land at his feet. The Maloofs have been as spoiled as the fans by the Adelman years. 2 years out of the playoffs likely = automatic Muss departure.

And people need to get off the "no coach could win" kick. I thought Muss was a solid hire. But I am currently being persuaded into rethinking my position. We are NOT a great team, not close. NOBODY coaches this team to a title. But there is a long way from champion to the borderline incompetence Muss has been displaying thus far. While the "kid" remarks are kind of cheapshots based on his age, he has looked every bit that part at times. Absolutely none of the self assurance, established philosophy, and generally steady hand of a real pro. Some of his moves are just amateurish. Right now he's actually become part of the problem, and for his own sake, as well as ours, he's got to get past that stat.


Actually I think Rick was fired because he was a crabby old man that really sucked last year before Artest bailed him out. :p :cool:
 
Actually I think Rick was fired because he was a crabby old man that really sucked last year before Artest bailed him out. :p :cool:

Adelman was let go because he didn't fit the image the Maloofs wanted of a coach.

They wanted someone who would be out in public a lot, who would garner attention, etc.

They really should have paid more attention to the old warning, "Be careful what you wish for."
 
You want to get a good rile out of folks? Just diss RA now, right when the whole decision to trade him off for Muss looks the most questionable. How's the breeze out there on that limb eh? :)
 
Actually I think Rick was fired because he was a crabby old man that really sucked last year before Artest bailed him out. :p :cool:

You know its ultimately a very shallow exercise to try to feel good about every single thing that your franchise does by smearing everything that has come before.
 
Adelman was let go because he didn't fit the image the Maloofs wanted of a coach.

They wanted someone who would be out in public a lot, who would garner attention, etc.

They really should have paid more attention to the old warning, "Be careful what you wish for."

i am curious: do you really believe what you are saying here?
 
:cool: Look I never liked the idea of firing Adelamn, I was not a big supporter of Musselman EXCEPT for the Coach Wizz threats that were made before his hiring. BUT you don't fire a new guy after only 17 games, you give the guy a year and then you see what he has done. Obviously I am not impressed but to be fair I am also aware that he only has the players they give him. Truth is this squad never had NBA finals stamped on it. This is a team that under the BEST of coaches could reasonalbly expect to get into the play offs and MAYBE make the first round interesting. In the end this is the standard Muss ought to be measured against. Not one very very stupid experiment or some losses when the teams top defender is out.
 
i am curious: do you really believe what you are saying here?

Um...as far as I know most everybody does. The Maloofs themselves cited that as part of the reason, stories about how they wanted Rick to talk to them more, be out in the community more etc. May not have been all of it, but was certainly in the mix. Think the Maloofs, being gregarious dip****s themselves, wanted an extravert for their coach too.
 
Indeed.

Of course you see Rick took Ron Artest, midseason, and immediately turned the team into one that stormed down the stertch with the #8 defense in the league and the 5th best record in the league (or whatever that was).

Muss HAS Ron Artest, not to mention a vastly improved Kevin, and he's got about the 22nd ranked defense and the 11th best record the West, let alone league.

The sky does not have to be falling here, but Muss has proven NOTHING in this league. People were calling for Adelman's head after 7 straight playoff appearances and 5 straight 50 win seasons or whatever. They were foolish, but there it was. And now you get Muss who's never won anything in the NBA, never even been .500, and got canned for losing his last team, and he starts struggling...

Let's just say the questions are legit until he proves they aren't.

well, if you have the best team in the nba for at least two years and you fail to win a championship (due to whatever reasons), people will question you. add to that that all the younglings were let go, you will have not so few adelman "haters".
 
i am curious: do you really believe what you are saying here?

Do I think that was the sole reason? Of course not. Do I think that was a contributory factor? Well, since both brothers said as much, I think it was definitely a small part of the process that led to Adelman's eventual departure.

For the most part, I was simply making the point that sometimes you have to be careful what you wish for. The Maloofs wanted someone who would be more gregarious and outgoing. They got that, but they also had to deal shortly thereafter with the DUI Musselman got.

Simply pointing out a bit of irony.
 
Um...as far as I know most everybody does. The Maloofs themselves cited that as part of the reason, stories about how they wanted Rick to talk to them more, be out in the community more etc. May not have been all of it, but was certainly in the mix. Think the Maloofs, being gregarious dip****s themselves, wanted an extravert for their coach too.

interesting; i always thought he was let go because, compared to their buddy's team, the mavs, the kings were going the opposite direction.
 
interesting; i always thought he was let go because, compared to their buddy's team, the mavs, the kings were going the opposite direction.

Psssh. Again, that is GP's territory not RA's.
He was let go because he did not win a championship(period)
 
well, if you have the best team in the nba for at least two years and you fail to win a championship (due to whatever reasons), people will question you. add to that that all the younglings were let go, you will have not so few adelman "haters".

We had exactly one year when anybody outside of Kingsland thought we were the best, that was 02-03. That was the year we lost Webb in the playoffs. That was also the year that the depths of delusion that Kingsland was suffering from first became apparent. Yeah...should have gone on and won the title without your best player. Of course. Happens ALL the time in the NBA. :rolleyes:

So in any case, the Maloofs have shown themselves to be no brighter than the most deluded of their fans, indeed have contributed to the delusion. And sooner or later that sort of ignorance comes home to roost. You let your chintzy little hype machine endlessly tell the fans that they are the best, that their arena is the best, that their team is the best, always always always...and gee, here you are a few years later, chasing scapegoats out of town left and right, and being scapegoated yourself by the fans you buttered up. All because you never managed expectations in the first place. Your team is a "failure" because it was "the best" and did not win the title, your fans won't replace your arena because the current one is "the best" and you would never leave "the best" fans in the world. Like a pyramid scheme at the end of its run. Foolishly shortsighted and shallow.
 
Last edited:
We had exactly one year when anybody outside of Kingsland thought we were the best, that was 02-03. That was the year we lost Webb in the playoffs. That was also the year that the depths of delusion that Kingsland was suffering from first became apparent. Yeah...should have gone on and won the title without your best player. Of course. Happens ALL the time in the NBA. :rolleyes:

So in any case, the Maloofs have shown themselves to be no brighter than the most deluded of their fans, indeed have contributed to the delusion. And sooner or later that sort of ignorance comes home to roost. You let your chintzy little hype machine endlessly tell the fans that they are the best, that their arena is the best, that their team is the best, always always always...and gee, here you are a few years later, chasing scapegoats out of town left and right, and being scapegoated yourself by the fans you buttered up. All because you never managed expectations in the first place. Your team is a "failure" because it was "the best" and did not win the title, your fans won't replace your arena because the current one is "the best" and you would never leave "the best" fans in the world. Like a pyramid scheme at the end of its run. Foolishly shortsighted and shallow.

no actually, the kings were the best team when the lakers were heavily favored and calls were made according to their forte (a close game at the end was their territory). the next year was the beginning of the downfall actually. they were still the best but were not better.

i never buy into the hype. the kings were the best because the way they were playing was how basketball was meant to be played. efficient, collective, entertaining. something stern apparently does not want, as it is not good for business. heros sell more.

as for webber going down, well, there were lessons to be taken, but the disillusion of adelman and petrie prevented them from taking any. they thought an imitation of vlade in brad would do the trick. but in the meantime, they lost hedo, wallace, peja; christie and bobby were getting old with absolutely no plan for their replacements. it eventually became bibby's team, according to the media. the kings were very strong and the best because the team was nobody's; it had its leaders, sure, but none claimed to be in the sole possession of the team. until webber opened his mouth, that is, and first declared the "with him" and "against him" players. then again, by anointing himself as the true leader and vowing to change the "happy go lucky" attitude after vlade's departure.

how is all this adelman's fault? well,
1. he put hedo into his doghouse after hedo stupidly enough claimed that he deserved the starting position and was expecting dc to come off the bench. jj was hired because hedo was injured, and the was the end of hedo in the kings uniform. that was stupid because he, adelman, chose to ride jj instead of investing into hedo.
2. he did a similar thing to wallace. he was a great hustle player. there were times where he would do great if given the chance, but one cramp coming on, marked his end. again, young ones can do mistakes; a good coach turns these mistakes into milestones of an ever developing career. adelman did not do that.
3. webber's return from injury and the infamous 2/21 game was adelman's fault. he should have made webber come gradually. instead he bowed before him and handed the control. that was an utter and complete disrespect to the rest of the team, especially to peja.
4. peja's story, i tend to believe, is like chicken and egg. games were not called for him when going went tough. the "money" game was to let bibby and webber do their "thang". that probably alienated him. an american would treat a guy in peja's shoes who is not forcing the issue as loser, which most, if not all, here did. or being soft at best. i don't buy that a single second. these guys are tough. try being a professional athlete for a change.
5. dc and bobby and webber were traded too late. webber should have brought in much more. but adelman did not phase him out; petrie did not trade him sooner. dc became damaged goods. maybe only bobby might be considered a timely trade, considering his injury was unexpected. still, there are really tons of players who could be molded into their role. they should have replaced earlier. adelman chose to play them till they could play no more with little to no trust to his bench players.
6. when webber started talking, adelman did not counter him. nothing changed in his attitude towards the guy. being a players' coach is one thing, being not able to instill discipline is another. he should not have let webber get away with all that bs. he should have seen that webber was actually pruning the branch he was sitting on.

some might be speculation on my part, but that is part of the deal here: being not privy to insider information, on some issues the most one can do is to make educational guesses. the others are not speculation and facts.
 
Look some people wanted Webber gone and most of the same wanted Adelman gone... well... Reap it. We were 16 games over .500 averaging 103 ppg on 26 assists and somehow Webber was "slowing" the offense down. As soon as he was traded we became a .500 team and we were completely embarassed in the 1st round of the playoffs by Frickin Danny Fortson and Jerome Trash bag James for god's sake! The year before Webber went toe to toe with KG and we were in Game 7 seconds away from the WCF and Webber Couldn't even barely walk!

Ok, so then we heard the excuse these guys needed time to get to know each other and have a full training camp together... Webber was now gone and would no longer would be holding Peja(and the team) back. Sky's the limit right? Wrong, we then preceded to become one of the worst teams in the entire NBA... falling to 14th in the Western Conference! Peja hid on the bench... (now thats somehow Bibby's fault?? Mike put up career numbers that year btw) Then they finally pulled the trigger for Artest, (a trade that should have happened when Webber was still here) and all of the sudden the Kings had a much improved defense, under ADELMAN (which everyone seems to be conveniently forgeting now). Wow... imagine that... tends to happen when you bring in maybe the best defensive player in the league, and once again a player with a rough past and questionable character fits right in and flourishes(of course that had nothing to do with Adelman, must have been because of Coachie, right?).

We need Artest back, healthy and happy, without him the defense instantly sucks again, can't everyone see that now?? But even if he is healthy if we don't win and Muss refuses to turn the team over to him he is likely to go off, The Maloofs listened to too many of their idiot fans calling in to radio shows and thought they could solve everything by firing Adelman. I'm still wondering how the team could have stopped listening to him and tuned him out when they were a completely new set of players. Why would you get rid of a coach that obviously is a perfect fit with the volatile player you are trying to build your franchise around. Like I said before many people got what they wanted, Webber is gone, Adelman is gone, and the Kings are no longer that 50+ win team that can't quite make it to the Finals, but maybe with 1 new piece(Like a Ron Artest maybe???) the could make a run. No... now they are several pieces away with no leadership and Bibbys prime is ticking away, wasted.
 
Last edited:
Look some people wanted webber gone and most of the same wanted Adelman gone... Reap it.

that probably is not true. the old timers will remember; garliguy and mikeb were not adelman haters but passionately hated webber. ryle, on the other hand, wanted adelman out but was not really against webber (i might be off here). i don't think there is really a correlation. unless you want to include all those fair weather fans with no patience and think change is always good.
 
that probably is not true. the old timers will remember; garliguy and mikeb were not adelman haters but passionately hated webber. ryle, on the other hand, wanted adelman out but was not really against webber (i might be off here). i don't think there is really a correlation. unless you want to include all those fair weather fans with no patience and think change is always good.
I didn't say all, I said most, and trust me I was here to see the ones I'm talking about.
 
Muss ain't going anywhere before this summer, and likely into next season. Only way he's going to lose his job before then is if there is a full fledged Artest revolt which crushes the team. And maybe not even then. GM is too even keeled, and the ownership too personally invested. But I will say if we were to miss the playoffs this year on the wings of Price/Bibby backcourts, Corliss/Thomas frontcourts, and 20pt blowouts, he'd definitely begin to feel that collar tightening. Part of the problem of working for completely deluded owners who think they should win the title every year.


Note: the ONLY xfactor possibility here would be the Whiz factor, which is pretty scary. Only scenario I can think of where Muss and his big contract is jettisoned midseason would be the Maloofs saying, see, we were right about Whiz being the guy all along, he's no longer coaching the Monarchs, and so here's your midseason replacement!" Which would be...well, doesn't take too many coaching failures in a row to wash all of the success of the Adelman years out of our mouths and reduce us to just another struggling, grasping lottery team once again making "hire Bill Russel" desperation moves to the amusement of the rest of the league.
Yeah...how true this is...how long did Petrie stick with Garry St. Jean, and his P.M.A., before he gave him the axe? And I dont even want to THINK about the 'Whiz Factor', thank you. Scary...REAL scary!
 
Webber is gone, get over it. What I want to know is how come we keep getting a Douby, what? next year we take his clone? 3 years in a row, skinny combo's. Thats what we need to talk about!!!
 
Back
Top