Dream Team Draft --- Sacramento Kings (5) Vs. The Dirty Dozen (12)

[SLAB]

Jespher (5)
1: LeBron James --- F
2: Dwight Howard --- F/C
3: Kevin Johnson --- PG
4: Manu Ginobili --- G/F
5: Alonzo Mourning --- F/C
6: Mike D'Antoni --- Head Coach
7: Steve Kerr --- PG
8: Mark Price --- PG
9: Pau Gasol --- F/C
10: Lamar Odom --- Point Forward
11: Joe Johnson --- G/F
12: Tayshaun Prince --- F
13: Brad Miller --- C
14: Scott Skiles --- Asst. Coach
15: Sacramento Kings

Vs.

AleksandarN (12)
1: Kobe Bryant --- SG
2: David Robinson --- C
3: Grant Hill --- SF
4: Maurice Cheeks --- PG
5: Dave DeBusschere --- PF
6: Jerry Sloan --- Head Coach
7: Penny Hardaway --- PG/SG
8: Shawn "Reign Man" Kemp --- PF
9: Glen Rice --- SF
10: Tree Rollins --- C
11: Clifford R. Robinson --- F/C
12: Kevin Willis --- PF/C
13: Marko Jaric --- PG/SG/SF
14: Tex Winter --- Asst. Coach
15: The Dirty Dozen

This voting window closes Sunday at 9:30 pm.
Get your votes in!!!

 

[Larry89]

wow what a matchup

 

[Bricklayer]

Yeah, been some good ones already. Think that LeBron might have slightly better teammates here than he does in real life.

Jespher's team has a few too many ball dominant players for my tastes -- almost no roleplayers at all -- but that Mourning/Howard frontline combo would be hell on wheels defensively, and The Admiral, while better than either, often had a taint of softness about him that makes me wonder how he'd do in there.

Interesting thing is whether people are going to remember how good Hill, Penny, and Kemp were back in their mid-90s prime, as opposed to their late career shells.

 

[Larry89]

There's also another thing, Dantoni is coaching, thats free reign on whoever controls the ball in his system helter skelter, and Theres Lebron in that system.

Kevin Johnson is no Steve Nash, but a better scorer and defender.. I'll have to think on this one..

 

[SacKings7]

I had to go with AleksandarN here, I put him higher in my rankings. And it's because of what Brick said...too many ball dominant players on Jespher's team. He certainly has the better roster on paper, but that's not what this is about. At least not to me.

Sorry Jespher

 

[venom_7]

I'll put it simply. Jespher's team is just better. Straight up. As far as ball dominant players, I really don't see any. He has players that can be ball dominant at times, but I don't see any Iversons on there.

 

[kingsnation]

Jespher (5)
1: LeBron James --- F

Vs.

AleksandarN (12)
1: Kobe Bryant --- SG

Maybe we should just merge this playoff matchup with the Kobe/Lebron thread?

 

[SLAB]

Alekandar already made that comparison in the original thread right after th rankings were revealed!

Makes for a great matchup!

 

[Jespher]

I have 3 retorts the the charge that the Sacramento Kings have too many ball dominant players to win.

#1) You have to score to win, and without scorers, it's hard to score. My team doesn't have ball hogs, it has finishers. You can't be a ball hog, if it only takes 5 seconds to score...
#2) Mike D'Antoni is my coach, these guys will be moving the ball like wild men, and everyone will have inflated stats (just look at Steve Nash D'Antoni vs. Post D'Antoni, Nate Robinson Pre D'Antoni vs. now, Quentin Richardson, Shawn Marion, Chris Duhon, Stephon Marbury, etc...). Everyone will be happy, because they can all get their shots in his system. Their playing time won't hinge on their offensive success nearly as much as their defensive execution and cohesiveness. Plus, the spacing will be so good that it will be easier to move the ball, and LeBron won't have to do as much work as that ridiculous game 5 last night.
#3) Here are the career assist numbers/game for my roster respectively:

LeBron James: 6.7
Dwight Howard: 1.4
Kevin Johnson: 9.1
Manu Ginobili: 3.6
Alonzo Mourning: 1.1
Steve Kerr: 1.8 (in limited minutes)
Mark Price: 6.7 (including lots of injured years at end of career, 10+ for a season)
Pau Gasol: 3.2
Lamar Odom: 4.2
Joe Johson: 4.4
Tayshaun Prince: 2.6
Brad Miller: 3.0

Total: 47.8 career assists/game

Not a ball hog among them. With D'Antoni's offense tutilage and lightning fast pace, they can all score, and share the ball, without any player dominating the ball.

 

[Jespher]

Here are the career assist numbers for AleksandarN's squad:

Kobe Bryant: 4.6
David Robinson: 2.5
Grant Hill: 4.7
Maurice Cheeks: 6.7
Dave Debusschere: 2.9
Penny Hardaway: 5.0
Shawn Kemp: 1.6
Glen Rice: 2.1
Tre Rollins: 0.6
Clifford Robinson: 2.2
Kevin Willis: 0.9
Marko Jaric: 3.6

Total: 37.4 Career assists/game

So with over 10 more career assists/game, the Kings demonstrate a propensity and a willingness to pass, that will only grow with the teachings of my head coach...

 

[Bricklayer]

Thing is KJ can't be KJ while LeBron is LeBron, let alone while Price is Price, Manu is Manu etc. etc. There is only one ball. Can only be one main ballhandler. Maybe LeBron will only average 5 assists for this squad, I don't know. But all of those assist totals are there because guys had the ball, dominated the ball, and ran the show for their respective teams. Were the main man. Only one guy can do that on a given team, no matter how many of them you stack up. Put 12 Jason Kidds on a team, and they are still only going to average maybe 25 assists or so.

As an aside, Mike D'Antoni actually didn't run a terribly democratic passing team. Run 'n gun to be sure, but Nash was the absolute assist meister on that team, and had as many assists as all of his teammates combined. You've got multiple candidates to play that Nash role, and a couple at elast are better overall players than Nash. But they can't ALL play that role simultaneously.

I do think you are the better passing team BTW. But you can't jsut add them up.

 

[Jespher]

Are you kidding? KJ had Barkley, Majerle, Danny Ainge, Tom Chambers, Cedric Ceballos, Rex Chapman, etc. He was a part of the mix, and did not need to dominate the ball to be effective. He was the facilitator for that team. LBJ did not dominate the ball for the redeem team, he facilitated, helped on defense, and finished (stong!). Ginobili was 6th man of the year, and he's a consumate team player. He can finish wicked drives, but he always plays within the scope of the offense, and he is more than willing to defer to an open 3-point shooter (Brent Barry/Michael Finley/Ryan Bowen), a post Player (Duncan), or another driver for an easier shot (Finley/Parker/Etc.). I put the total career assists per game stat up to emphasize their ability and willingness to pass as a unit, especially if that was the type of offense they were running.

As for there being only one player in a Nash role, D'Antoni never had big men that could pass like Odom, or LeBron, or Brad Miller. Put those players in his system, and he would find a way to kill you with crisp passing. Do you really think pass first when you see Shawn Marion? Amare Stoudemire? That is why he liked Boris Diaw so much...he is a big man who isn't afraid to pass!

You say that I have almost no role players, but I give you Steve Kerr, Tayshaun Prince, Brad Miller, Alonzo Mourning, and Joe Johnson. Each of these guys are role players who excell at specific aspects of the game, and are put in for that specific purpose. Kerr for his shooting, Tayshaun for his defense, Brad for his passing, Zo for his rebounding/shotblocking, and Joe Johnson for his athleticism/finishing ability. These guys are more than happy to defer to the KJs and LeBrons of the team, yet are serviceable in any role I need for them.

 

[kingsnation]

As for there being only one player in a Nash role, D'Antoni never had big men that could pass like Odom, or LeBron, or Brad Miller. Put those players in his system, and he would find a way to kill you with crisp passing. Do you really think pass first when you see Shawn Marion? Amare Stoudemire? That is why he liked Leandro Barbosa so much...he is a big man who isn't afraid to pass!

Barbosa is not a big man.

 

[Bricklayer]

Are you kidding? KJ had Barkley, Majerle, Danny Ainge, Tom Chambers, Cedric Ceballos, Rex Chapman, etc. He was a part of the mix, and did not need to dominate the ball to be effective.

I think you are confusing dominate the ball with take all the shots. KJ absolutely dominated the ball for those teams, with only Barkley occasionally taking it from him during his tenure. Those other guys are all finshers. Slashers, spot shooters, guys that KJ created for -- that's the difference. He still brought the ball up the floor every time, ran the sets, made the passes. He dominated the ball. Just not necessarily the scoring. That's a good thing if you have the talent yourself and a normal team of finshers built around you. Trickier when you have multiple other guys on the team who are used to playing that same role.

 

[Jespher]

Barbosa is not a big man.

I meant Boris Diaw. I think I need another beer...

 

[AleksandarN]

You are being a little dishonest with your assist comparison. Or at very least misrepresenting your position.

 

[Larry89]

Whoever has the ball in the Dantoni system has the green light to shoot. It can either kill you or be an amazing offense depending on the players..

 

[Jespher]

Whoever has the ball in the Dantoni system has the green light to shoot. It can either kill you or be an amazing offense depending on the players..

Oh I've got the players
[yt=Money]NPfv9GUeVnI[/yt]
[yt=Game 6]S2BlOTeoZVE[/yt]

 

[AleksandarN]

Here are the career assist numbers for AleksandarN's squad:

Kobe Bryant: 4.6
David Robinson: 2.5
Grant Hill: 4.7
Maurice Cheeks: 6.7
Dave Debusschere: 2.9
Penny Hardaway: 5.0
Shawn Kemp: 1.6
Glen Rice: 2.1
Tre Rollins: 0.6
Clifford Robinson: 2.2
Kevin Willis: 0.9
Marko Jaric: 3.6

Total: 37.4 Career assists/game

So with over 10 more career assists/game, the Kings demonstrate a propensity and a willingness to pass, that will only grow with the teachings of my head coach...

Like I said earlier that comparison is very misleading which I think you did on purpose.

 

[AleksandarN]

For me I tried to pick players that will not aways need the ball in order to be effective. Also added role players on my team knowing that not all players would be able to start. Tried to create a defensive team that could play any style on offense aswell. I could run and gun, play half court, the pick and roll, anything really.

 

[Jespher]

Like I said earlier that comparison is very misleading which I think you did on purpose.

I did not post this info to bash your team. I was making a point that my collection of players would be more than willing to share the ball, and were not a mere collection of ball dominant players.

 

[AleksandarN]

I did not post this info to bash your team. I was making a point that my collection of players would be more than willing to share the ball, and were not a mere collection of ball dominant players.

But using career assist averages on my team compared to your team is very misleading since all of them have averaged more time in their prime then mine. No way Penny averages only 5 assists if he was not injuried(same with Hill and many of other players) like I said very misleading . Also I did not pick all starters like you did in you team. I wanted to construct a team that had role players and superstars/allstars.

 

[Jespher]

But using career assist averages on my team compared to your team is very misleading since all of them have averaged more time in their prime then mine. No way Penny averages only 5 assists if he was not injuried(same with Hill and many of other players) like I said very misleading . Also I did not pick all starters like you did in you team. I wanted to construct a team that had role players and superstars/allstars.

Same could be said for Mark Price (injuries) and Steve Kerr (only 17 min/game)...As for drafting role players/bench players, not All-Stars...All of your picks have been full time NBA starters for their primes. Only 2 of your players were not All-Stars (Tree Rollins and Marko Jaric) and one was drafted for his girlfriend.

Kobe Bryant (11 time All-Star)
David Robinson (10 time All-Star)
Grant Hill (7 time All-Star)
Maurice Cheeks (4 time All-Star)
Dave DeBusschere (8 time All-Star)
Penny Hardaway (4 time All-Star)
Shawn Kemp (6 time All-Star)
Glen Rice (3 time All-Star)
Tree Rollins (Never an All-Star)
Clifford Robinson (1 time All-Star)
Kevin Willis (1 time All-Star)
Marko Jaric (Never an All-Star)

 

[AleksandarN]

Same could be said for Mark Price (injuries) and Steve Kerr (only 17 min/game)...As for drafting role players/bench players, not All-Stars...All of your picks have been full time NBA starters for their primes. Only 2 of your players were not All-Stars (Tree Rollins and Marko Jaric) and one was drafted for his girlfriend.

Kobe Bryant (11 time All-Star)
David Robinson (10 time All-Star)
Grant Hill (7 time All-Star)
Maurice Cheeks (4 time All-Star)
Dave DeBusschere (8 time All-Star)
Penny Hardaway (4 time All-Star)
Shawn Kemp (6 time All-Star)
Glen Rice (3 time All-Star)
Tree Rollins (Never an All-Star)
Clifford Robinson (1 time All-Star)
Kevin Willis (1 time All-Star)
Marko Jaric (Never an All-Star)

come on now Mark Price and Steve Kerr make up for the difference; you got to be kidding me. The difference is great, that is why you used the statistic that you did.

 

[Jespher]

come on now Mark Price and Steve Kerr make up for the difference; you got to be kidding me. The difference is great, that is why you used the statistic that you did.

If I'm misquoting the statistics, then use some stats of your own. It's like I'm having an argument with myself...

 

[SLAB]

Remember, voting ends at 9:30 tonight!

Quarterfinals will be posted shortly after!