Draft Day!

Who will the Kings pick?

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The_Jamal said:
Interesting how it's now standing reach that matters, after telling us how important wingspan is all this time
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Before we even get to the wingspan part, Carter’s standing reach + vertical is impressive. That’s what @sactowndog is failing to acknowledge. He likes to use the “6’5” and under league” phrase when perhaps we should start using the “no jump league” in our responses to him.

Is anybody saying “we have found our future starting SF in Carter?” No, I haven’t seen anybody say that. He’s best at guard but can flex up for stretches due to his length, strength, vertical, and his ability to rebound the ball. To make comments like he’s on par with Mitchell (like @sactowndog did) is just disingenuous. He has a much longer wingspan, longer standing reach, is a much better leaper, and is a much better rebounder. Carter is much much more versatile than Mitchell.

Coming back to wingspan, I would argue that wingspan is more important for guards and standing reach becomes more important for forwards/centers. Guards are predominantly defending on the perimeter. A longer wingspan really helps with things like deflections, playing the passing lanes, stripping players, disrupting ball handlers, etc.
 
twslam07 said:
Before we even get to the wingspan part, Carter’s standing reach + vertical is impressive. That’s what @sactowndog is failing to acknowledge. He likes to use the “6’5” and under league” phrase when perhaps we should start using the “no jump league” in our responses to him.

Is anybody saying “we have found our future starting SF in Carter?” No, I haven’t seen anybody say that. He’s best at guard but can flex up for stretches due to his length, strength, vertical, and his ability to rebound the ball. To make comments like he’s on par with Mitchell (like @sactowndog did) is just disingenuous. He has a much longer wingspan, longer standing reach, is a much better leaper, and is a much better rebounder. Carter is much much more versatile than Mitchell.

Coming back to wingspan, I would argue that wingspan is more important for guards and standing reach becomes more important for forwards/centers. Guards are predominantly defending on the perimeter. A longer wingspan really helps with things like deflections, playing the passing lanes, stripping players, disrupting ball handlers, etc.
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And really, just turn on the tape. Carter averaged a block a game for a reason. Dude contests everything and contests everything well. He'll have 0 issues matching up with any guard in basketball.

No one said he should guard 3s full time. But he can flex down in the right spot and I think we'll see a ton of Keon and Carter flexing down this year.

Just getting those 2 with Keegan on the floor is going to dramatically shift our defense. For literally the first time ever, we're going to have multiple elite stoppers at different positions
 
I'm encouraged by McNair valuing toughness in his picks and his trades - Mitchell, Ellis, Sabonis, Carter, and I wouldn't say Murray is soft, given his defensive accomplishments. So why in the world are we even getting rumors of Kuzma, the polar opposite of the above? It's weird. Hunter makes sense. Markannen makes sense. Kuzma makes no sense whatsoever.

I'm somewhat skeptical about Heurter being traded in the near-term. I would think GMs would wait and see on him until that shoulder heals and he's up and running, unless McNair gives him away for chicken feed, which I doubt.
 
Kingster said:
I'm somewhat skeptical about Heurter being traded in the near-term. I would think GMs would wait and see on him until that shoulder heals and he's up and running, unless McNair gives him away for chicken feed, which I doubt.
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I expect Davion and HB or Huerter to be moved for a starting SF or PF (Kuzma, Hunter, Johnson or Julius Randle?) this off season.

But, if Huerter is still on the team this season, he’s going to have to get his minutes backing up the small forward spot. Our guard rotation looks set with Fox, Monk, Keon and Carter.
 
Kingster said:
I'm somewhat skeptical about Heurter being traded in the near-term. I would think GMs would wait and see on him until that shoulder heals and he's up and running, unless McNair gives him away for chicken feed, which I doubt.
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I get this to some degree. It does feel like it would be selling low on Huerter to trade him now, as he could easily bounce back next season. Barnes, on the other hand, seems to be on a steady decline. Yes, the backcourt is crowded at the moment, but I think Huerter can swing to SF just fine. In fact, I think that would be more realistic than the proposals I keep seeing that result in Barnes slotted as backup SF. I don’t trust Brown to play him in that role!

Of course, if you need his contract to match salaries or are getting sufficient value, I have no problem trading Huerter. But I’m probably looking to trade Barnes and Davion for the forward upgrade first.

edit: OC beat me to it!
 
ockingsfan said:
I expect Davion and HB or Huerter to be moved for a starting SF or PF (Kuzma, Hunter, Johnson or Julius Randle?) this off season.

But, if Huerter is still on the team this season, he’s going to have to get his minutes backing up the small forward spot. Our guard rotation looks set with Fox, Monk, Keon and Carter.
Click to expand...

If Huerter is still on the team there's also the option of starting him at SF and playing Keegan at PF. It's not my first choice, but it gives you a lot of shooting and movement in the starting lineup.
 
ockingsfan said:
I expect Davion and HB or Huerter to be moved for a starting SF or PF (Kuzma, Hunter, Johnson or Julius Randle?) this off season.

But, if Huerter is still on the team this season, he’s going to have to get his minutes backing up the small forward spot. Our guard rotation looks set with Fox, Monk, Keon and Carter.
Click to expand...

It's going to be interesting. It's hard to get value for a guy coming off of shoulder surgery who is now getting minimal minutes off the bench after getting demoted from his starting job.
 
Kingster said:
I find it interesting that his draft analysis of months ago that baja said Carter was his "most favorite player" in the draft, which is also what he said about Murray. That's a good sign.
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If I’m not mistaken he also said that about Keegan
 
twslam07 said:
You’re missing the point I made.

You’re not acknowledging the combination of standing reach + vertical. You’re missing a very important part of that equation.

I would hope that we both can agree that Ellis can handle himself at SG with his abilities and length. Considering their verticals, Carter can contest 3-3.5” higher than Ellis. That’s important to recognize.

Why are you comparing him to Barnes? Barnes is defending PFs with an abysmal 8’5.5” standing reach for his position and a ground bound game. That’s the issue. Nobody is saying we should start Carter at PF. He’s a PG/SG who can flex up to SF when we go small/play 3 guard lineups for small stretches.

I am on the record in the other draft thread saying that I think Carter was a better draft prospect than Mitchell (and McNair got him 4 picks later than where we draft Mitchell). He’s much more versatile than Mitchell (due to his length, athleticism, strength, & rebounding) and his length and athleticism give him the opportunity/potential to develop into a really strong offensive player if he puts in the work.
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because when you close out in many cases vertical doesn’t matter. You are standing on the ground with your arms extended straight up. Yes you can jump but that makes you vulnerable to pump fakes and lean in fouls
 
twslam07 said:
You’re missing the point I made.

You’re not acknowledging the combination of standing reach + vertical. You’re missing a very important part of that equation.

I would hope that we both can agree that Ellis can handle himself at SG with his abilities and length. Considering their verticals, Carter can contest 3-3.5” higher than Ellis. That’s important to recognize.

Why are you comparing him to Barnes? Barnes is defending PFs with an abysmal 8’5.5” standing reach for his position and a ground bound game. That’s the issue. Nobody is saying we should start Carter at PF. He’s a PG/SG who can flex up to SF when we go small/play 3 guard lineups for small stretches.

I am on the record in the other draft thread saying that I think Carter was a better draft prospect than Mitchell (and McNair got him 4 picks later than where we draft Mitchell). He’s much more versatile than Mitchell (due to his length, athleticism, strength, & rebounding) and his length and athleticism give him the opportunity/potential to develop into a really strong offensive player if he puts in the work.
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BS. Nobody is flexing up to small forward with a 8’ 2” standing reach. We heard the same BS on this board when Davion was drafted with an 8’ 0” standing reach and he struggles to guard larger 2’s let alone 3’s.

Carter said he was a point guard for a reason.
 
Kingster said:
Yep. That's what I said. Baja does his homework on these guys, so I'll defer to him if I haven't seen them play in college (and I didn't see Carter play in college).
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Whoops sorry. Meant to say Haliburton haha but same difference. I feel like Baja’s player evaluations match up really well with Monte’s and Baja is usually right.
 
The_Jamal said:
Interesting how it's now standing reach that matters, after telling us how important wingspan is all this time
Click to expand...

No I said length matters. Don’t put words in my mouth. Length is generally standing reach and wingspan. But some players like Barnes and Carter can have very broad shoulders which give them above average wingspan and below average standing reach.

I’m done arguing yet another BPA available to the extreme Monte pick. I’m starting the think he is in the lower echelon of Kings GM’s
 
sactowndog said:
No I said length matters. Don’t put words in my mouth. Length is generally standing reach and wingspan. But some players like Barnes and Carter can have very broad shoulders which give them above average wingspan and below average standing reach.

I’m done arguing yet another BPA available to the extreme Monte pick. I’m starting the think he is in the lower echelon of Kings GM’s
Click to expand...

I was always told that it’s how you use it.
 
funkykingston said:
If Huerter is still on the team there's also the option of starting him at SF and playing Keegan at PF. It's not my first choice, but it gives you a lot of shooting and movement in the starting lineup.
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Interesting idea for sure and helps Huerter get in a bigger USG role with Keon basically replacing HB. But man, I think Keegan needs to be on those perimeter wings. Id rather we go look for a small ball 4 than like a true wing and shifting Keegan to the 4 full time.
sactowndog said:
No I said length matters. Don’t put words in my mouth. Length is generally standing reach and wingspan. But some players like Barnes and Carter can have very broad shoulders which give them above average wingspan and below average standing reach.

I’m done arguing yet another BPA available to the extreme Monte pick. I’m starting the think he is in the lower echelon of Kings GM’s
Click to expand...

Who would you have selected? Just so it's on record and you can say you were right (or wrong)?
 
sactowndog said:
because when you close out in many cases vertical doesn’t matter. You are standing on the ground with your arms extended straight up. Yes you can jump but that makes you vulnerable to pump fakes and lean in fouls
Click to expand...
No, not always. Just watch Carter’s close outs in his film.
 
sactowndog said:
BS. Nobody is flexing up to small forward with a 8’ 2” standing reach. We heard the same BS on this board when Davion was drafted with an 8’ 0” standing reach and he struggles to guard larger 2’s let alone 3’s.

Carter said he was a point guard for a reason.
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Who said that about Mitchell? The versatility between Mitchell and Carter is very different. Just looks at the numbers.

Also, I feel very comfortable saying Marcus Smart can flex up to defend some SFs in short spurts. Do you disagree with that statement?
 
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