Douby is RIGHT!

[bajaden]

I think what Douby said makes him look really bad. It just sounds like a giant excuse and it's pointing fingers instead of looking at himself in the mirror. I've played basketball my entire life so I understand where he is coming from about not getting in a rythm but he simply cannot make statements like he did and expect to get any respect out of it. Respect is earned, and he just hasn't performed well on the court EVER to get any respect. I think the bottom line here is that just really isn't a good NBA player and I doubt he ever will be.

Well, at this point I doubt Douby cares about respect from Reggie or anyone else in the Kings organization. He knows he's gone at the end of the year anyway. I do agree, he should probably keep it in house. Somewhat ironic coming on the heels of the players coming out in support of Reggie. Like you, having played, he does have a valid point about looking over his shoulder. To play well in any sport, you have to be relaxed, and its hard to be relaxed when your afraid of making a mistake.

This just isn't Douby related. Thompson and Greene are falling under the same umbrella. A few years ago, when Gary St. Jean was the coach, he had the same habit that Reggie has of yelling out the plays and telling the players where to go on the floor while their playing. There was a young SF/PF that was drafted, I think in the second round. He was in his third year, and up to that time had been very inconsistant. Sort of Douby like.

Suddenly in his third year he started playing extremely well. After one of the games a reporter asked him what the secret to his suddenly found sucess was. He said it was simple. He stopped listening to St Jean, and just played his game. The players name escapes me, but he was white and he married one of the Kings cheerleaders. He was thusly traded.

 

[Bricklayer]

Chilcutt?

 

[bajaden]

What the hell? Let's revisit that game shall we? At the end of the game, Salmons was injured, Cisco's leg was put on ice, BJax couldn't guard Korver, and Greene was, well, a rookie. So what is Theus supposed to do? Put Mikki Moore or Jason Thompson on a wing player? Douby was put in for defensive purposes because we were short-handed. Desparate times calls for desparate measures, mate.

If any player find the NBA to be a tough place to "get in a ryhthm", might I quote Bill Walton: "Look, there are other leagues beside the NBA that one can play for."

Your right. Reggie had very few options available to him, and so he chose Douby. The burning question is, why did he have very few options? Reggie has no one to blame but himself. Its called player management. If you know that Cisco can only play a limited number of minutes, then you manage those minutes so some of them are there at the end of the game.

Thats what good coaches do! He's in charge. If you only have so many bullets, and you shoot them all before the end of the game, don't look at me and say your out of bullets. You shot the damm things. Can't you count?

 

[bajaden]

Chilcutt?

Thanks!

 

[thedofd]

The only good that can come out of the Kings' season this year is finding out what young guys are worth having around. Bobby Jackson looks to me as if he's about done. I'd like to see Reggie commit to using Q for 15-20 minutes a game for the next 20 games just to see what happens. We'll have a much better idea whether this guy's an NBA player if that happens, and there's not much to lose, is there?

 

[Gliesian]

QD portrayed himself to be a low-asssisting quick shooter. He has made several impressive plays and made it a point to show that he had high confidence and could make the 3 pt shot off the dribble. Except that his 3 pt shot (which is actually good) combined with the already-low assisting Artest era, showed that he is only a last option when it comes down to a quick shot.

This is why I think Reggie put him in. Reggie's mistake was not realizing the risk/reward of playing Greene. If QD did make the shot, that would be great; but what would have been greater is if Greene had made the shot. Both the fans and the team would have had the euphoric revelation that this team is going to be a contender, then promptly proceed to a 15-0 winning streak and the playoffs! QD is a better last option than Greene if you want to win the game. I don't mind losing games, all I ask is to take the risk and give us bigger rewards, which means playing Greene, Thompson and Hawes for as long as they want to play. The grass really is Greener on the other side!

QD should not have made the statement. I don't see why he chose to make an obvious point even more obvious. He is using faulty logic by saying that he missed the shots because he doesnt get playing time. It is true but we all know he doesnt get playing time because he missed his shots. Everyone begins their career with low minutes so he cannot use this as an argument. Sorry Douby, I know you are better than this, but you don't get second chances in the NBA.

 

[The Hammer]

I'm still trying to digest Theus' comment that Hawes played, not because he's rapidly showing he's capable of great things, but because John Salmons was out for the game.

VF, good luck digesting it but you won't be able to because it is bull****. It's some bull**** psycho game he thinks he's playing on the kids. I tried to digest it too and then I realized I had to vomit it out because bull**** doesn't assimilate in my system.

Does he think he's still a college coach and he's trying to "break" his players??? Would it kill him to admit that someone is doing well and has shown progress? Can he not praise his players in public during a losing streak because then then blame would fall on him?

This is a bad situation when you have a coach that is so freaking obsessed with looking good that he can't acknowledge players who are developing quite well if the team isn't winning. He's blaming (or at least not praising when appropriate which is that passive aggressive thing) and looking for scapegoats left and right.


A lot of all of this just smells bad. Ooh!

 

[HighTopKicks]

I cant figure out why he didnt put Garcia in .. I see why Douby would play in front of Bjax ( who was playing horrible defense and he wasnt hitting any shots on the other end ) and Greene cause hes a rook .. but I woulda put in Cisco.

He's proven he is good late in the game, and I know its one thing to rest a guy cause he just came back from an injury, but when there are 3 minutes left and the game on the line im playing garcia.

Cisco had already exceeded the minutes allowed by the Medical Staff, and has been quoted as saying that his leg was stiffening up. He also had been sitting since the beginning of the 4th quarter.

 

[beb0p]

Your right. Reggie had very few options available to him, and so he chose Douby. The burning question is, why did he have very few options? Reggie has no one to blame but himself. Its called player management. If you know that Cisco can only play a limited number of minutes, then you manage those minutes so some of them are there at the end of the game.

Thats what good coaches do! He's in charge. If you only have so many bullets, and you shoot them all before the end of the game, don't look at me and say your out of bullets. You shot the damm things. Can't you count?

It sure is a sign of the times; we've reached a point where it's Theus' fault that Douby missed two wide open shots. I'm sensing that Theus' is not a popular man in Sactown right now.

Perhaps Theus should have known Cisco is limited. But being a person who had suffered a serious injury, was told by my doctor that I'm all cleared to play, only to see my knee swell up after half time; my experience is that no one ever know this sort of thing for sure; not the doctor, and certainly not the coach. My guess is, no one knew Cisco would be hampered late in the game.

On the flip side, I've seen many players, in the NBA or otherwise, came in cold and made a bunch of shots. In fact, my first thought upon reading the article is: I've never ever heard of a shooter who complained he was too cold to shoot. It's always the other way around, real shooters never think they're too cold to shoot, ever.

 

[Variant]

This is the same "unfairness" that every no-name guy in the NBA is faced with. Some are able to come in, "cold", and make plays. As a result they get more playing time and depending on how they do enter the rotation and become good players in the league.

Others aren't able to produce in those situations and as a result never see the light of day. So sure, maybe it's not fair, and there are completely legitimate reasons why someone might not be able to hit those shots coming off the bench. But some do, and in the end this is how it's always been and always will be...

Douby has gotten extended minutes before and I've never been all that impressed with him. He had an unfortunate injury as well... and, maybe it just isn't the right situation for him.

 

[VF21]

I agree totally with beb0p. And ,I wonder why you are so willing to believe Doubys excuses, but refuse to believe Theus's explaination!

It was obvious that BJax couldn't guard Korver, who had already scored 5 pts on him in the 4th quarter. Brown was too short to guard Korver, and the only ones left were Greene & Douby. Theus pick the vet Douby for DEFENSE. Douby did a great job shutting down Korver. And, Douby wasn't too cold to sink two free throws.

Theus didn't call a timeout and design that last 3 for Douby. Beno lost his dribble AGAIN and falling, shoveled the ball to Douby who CHOSE to take the shot. Finally, can anyone tell me that in the history of the NBA, no other coach has ever asked a player to come off the bench in the fourth quarter COLD.

Theus made his substitution choice based on a limited roster. Douby made his choice on the fact that he thought he could make the shot, and now he wants to blame all the failures of his career on the coach. Douby needs to man up, and accept the blame for his own failures.

I wasn't responding to beb0p; I was responding to Ralphy.

It's not about believing Douby's excuses, BTW, since I made several comments about the lunacy of bringing someone in ice cold off the bench with 4 minutes to go long before Quincy made his feelings public.

If you're still happy with Reggie, fine. I'm not. We'll both have to see what happens...

 

[RalphySampson]

This is the same "unfairness" that every no-name guy in the NBA is faced with. Some are able to come in, "cold", and make plays. As a result they get more playing time and depending on how they do enter the rotation and become good players in the league.

Others aren't able to produce in those situations and as a result never see the light of day. So sure, maybe it's not fair, and there are completely legitimate reasons why someone might not be able to hit those shots coming off the bench. But some do, and in the end this is how it's always been and always will be...

Douby has gotten extended minutes before and I've never been all that impressed with him. He had an unfortunate injury as well... and, maybe it just isn't the right situation for him.

Bingo! You couldn't have said it any better.

 

[bajaden]

Perhaps Theus should have known Cisco is limited. But being a person who had suffered a serious injury, was told by my doctor that I'm all cleared to play, only to see my knee swell up after half time; my experience is that no one ever know this sort of thing for sure; not the doctor, and certainly not the coach. My guess is, no one knew Cisco would be hampered late in the game.

Reggie admited that the staff had told him how many minutes Cisco could play. I, by the way, am not making excuses for Douby. He's an NBA player and he's being paid to shoot the basketball. He was picked to go in, and he missed the shots. I can understand his explanation, but think he should have kept it in house. But thats a different issue.

I was taking umbrage with Reggie for his poor game management and decisions. He also is being paid to do a job, and, in my opinion is not at the moment doing a very good one. I should also point out that I was a huge supporter of Reggie when he was hired, and had great hopes for him this year.

I have no dog in this hunt other than the sucess of the Kings. If Reggie does a good job, I'll say so. By the same token, I'll point out when I think he does a bad job. This much I can guarantee you. If any player on the Jazz that Sloan deemed important was allowed only 25 minutes of playing time, you would see that player in the final minutes of that game.

 

[Elise10]

NOTE: Here's the article this post is referring to:
Douby makes a point about not making shots
by Melody Gutierrez

Quincy Douby appeared to have had enough of the talk about him. As he leaned against a wall at the Kings' practice facility Thursday, he said his inconsistent playing time is the reason for his late-game misfirings this season.

...

"I was so cold being on the bench the whole game, and I didn't feel right shooting," Douby said. "But I was open and I didn't want to (drive) and get a charge, so I had to shoot."

The more Douby talked of Tuesday's game, the more he voiced agitation with his playing time, which has ranged from zero to 25 minutes a game. Douby said he's not sure how to (develop) a rhythm in games when he is constantly worried about mistakes.

"This has been going on my whole three years here," Douby said. "I do something wrong one game and I get put at the end of the bench. I don't know what it is. I don't know if I'm the weak link or if people look at me like I'm weak."

...

The above is part of the "Kings Notes" section on page C4 of my "state edition" of the Bee. I must be missing something but I cannot find it on sacbee.com ... which isn't that unusual. I've noticed several times that my edition of the paper, which comes out early, is different than the final edition.

Here you go VF: http://www.sacbee.com/kings/story/1452173.html
The timestamp on the sacbee.com says 1:21 pm Friday

 

[Showtime]

This is the same "unfairness" that every no-name guy in the NBA is faced with. Some are able to come in, "cold", and make plays. As a result they get more playing time and depending on how they do enter the rotation and become good players in the league.

Others aren't able to produce in those situations and as a result never see the light of day. So sure, maybe it's not fair, and there are completely legitimate reasons why someone might not be able to hit those shots coming off the bench. But some do, and in the end this is how it's always been and always will be...

Douby has gotten extended minutes before and I've never been all that impressed with him. He had an unfortunate injury as well... and, maybe it just isn't the right situation for him.

This goes beyond Douby. His point is that when you never get consistent minutes, and the coach is pulling guys out of games, and they are always looking over their shoulder and worrying about messing up, it effects the players' confidence and they can't play well if they feel their are walking on eggshells. This applies to Donte, JT, and Brown mostly. When Donte comes in the game, if he messes up he gets yanked right away. He doesn't get a chance to play through anything. Even if he plays well, he doesn't get extended time that often. How can he build confidence in himself and be comfortable on the court in this environment? It's not just about Douby, but how the young talent is being treated and the possible effect it can have in their development.

 

[HighTopKicks]

This goes beyond Douby. His point is that when you never get consistent minutes, and the coach is pulling guys out of games, and they are always looking over their shoulder and worrying about messing up, it effects the players' confidence and they can't play well if they feel their are walking on eggshells. This applies to Donte, JT, and Brown mostly. When Donte comes in the game, if he messes up he gets yanked right away. He doesn't get a chance to play through anything. Even if he plays well, he doesn't get extended time that often. How can he build confidence in himself and be comfortable on the court in this environment? It's not just about Douby, but how the young talent is being treated and the possible effect it can have in their development.

No, the point is that if you don't have the skill set to play extended minutes, then you have to be grateful for the minutes you get and make the best of them.

Every team in the NBA has a twelve man bench, but few have more than a 9 or 10 man rotation. That means every team as 2 or 3 players that may or may not see action. And, everyone of those 10th through 12th players wants to play. You won't see any of them say "Coach don't send me in I'm cold". There eager to get in and show what they've got. And, if they produce then they'll see more PT.

How many times have you heard " the game is a series of runs ". If you keep any player in the game that is contributing to the other team getting on a run, you have to pull him from the game. If the player is a vet or rookie, it makes no difference, and the rookies need to learn that too. IF that hurts the rookies confidence than he won't make it in the NBA so it's better to weed them out now.

JT, Greene, or Brown aren't ready for extended minutes, but when they are Theus will give it to them. Until then, they need to make the best of the minutes they get, just like Hawes did last year. The learning and the skills will come in time.

 

[Showtime]

No, the point is that if you don't have the skill set to play extended minutes, then you have to be grateful for the minutes you get and make the best of them.

Every team in the NBA has a twelve man bench, but few have more than a 9 or 10 man rotation. That means every team as 2 or 3 players that may or may not see action. And, everyone of those 10th through 12th players wants to play. You won't see any of them say "Coach don't send me in I'm cold". There eager to get in and show what they've got. And, if they produce then they'll see more PT.

How many times have you heard " the game is a series of runs ". If you keep any player in the game that is contributing to the other team getting on a run, you have to pull him from the game. If the player is a vet or rookie, it makes no difference, and the rookies need to learn that too. IF that hurts the rookies confidence than he won't make it in the NBA so it's better to weed them out now.

JT, Greene, or Brown aren't ready for extended minutes, but when they are Theus will give it to them. Until then, they need to make the best of the minutes they get, just like Hawes did last year. The learning and the skills will come in time.

I disagree with this philosophy in the team's current situation. I don't care if you or Theus thinks Donte and Brown aren't ready yet to play extended minutes, because this isn't a contending team. On a contender, they need their young guys on the bench to produce in the limited amount of time because they can't afford to have them on the court over the better players. They need that kind of atmosphere where the guys come in and are ready to contribute in the limited minutes they get.

In the Kings' current situation, which is a lottery team in a rebuilding phase, the point should be to play these guy extended minutes NOW (because wins and losses don't matter), regardless if the other vets might produce more, in order for them to be ready to play extended minute in the following years (when wins and losses do matter). That's the entire point: develop the guys who may not be ready so they are ready to go when they become starters instead of denying them minutes because they make mistakes.

A perfect example of this is Gerald Wallace. When he was with the Kings, they were a contending team, so they couldn't afford to play a raw Gerald heavy minutes over the guys ahead of him. He gets drafted by the Bobcats, where he gets extended minutes, and becomes one of the best defenders at his position (when healthy). He also improved his jumpshot.

I see guys like Donte and JT as Gerald Wallace, in the sense that they need more time on the court to prove what they can do. The team needs to see what these guys are made of, and they can't do that without extended minutes. Now is the time to play them because the team isn't contending, and they CAN afford to play them because they aren't going anywhere this season. If the team was a 50 win club, I would agree with you. But they aren't, and they need to play these guys even if they aren't ready, so that they will be ready when they won't have anybody in front of them in the rotation.

 

[HighTopKicks]

I disagree with this philosophy in the team's current situation. I don't care if you or Theus thinks Donte and Brown aren't ready yet to play extended minutes, because this isn't a contending team. On a contender, they need their young guys on the bench to produce in the limited amount of time because they can't afford to have them on the court over the better players. They need that kind of atmosphere where the guys come in and are ready to contribute in the limited minutes they get.

In the Kings' current situation, which is a lottery team in a rebuilding phase, the point should be to play these guy extended minutes NOW (because wins and losses don't matter), regardless if the other vets might produce more, in order for them to be ready to play extended minute in the following years (when wins and losses do matter). That's the entire point: develop the guys who may not be ready so they are ready to go when they become starters instead of denying them minutes because they make mistakes.

A perfect example of this is Gerald Wallace. When he was with the Kings, they were a contending team, so they couldn't afford to play a raw Gerald heavy minutes over the guys ahead of him. He gets drafted by the Bobcats, where he gets extended minutes, and becomes one of the best defenders at his position (when healthy). He also improved his jumpshot.

I see guys like Donte and JT as Gerald Wallace, in the sense that they need more time on the court to prove what they can do. The team needs to see what these guys are made of, and they can't do that without extended minutes. Now is the time to play them because the team isn't contending, and they CAN afford to play them because they aren't going anywhere this season. If the team was a 50 win club, I would agree with you. But they aren't, and they need to play these guys even if they aren't ready, so that they will be ready when they won't have anybody in front of them in the rotation.

Your right, we differ in principle, about what the team and the rookies need. You believe wins & losses don't matter if we're not contending. I believe that the possibility of victory, or hope is always important. Look at the quotes of the players after a loss. JT has never had a losing season and he hates losing now. BJax didn't even play in the last game, yet he walked off the court in disgust before time expired.

The 7000 people who aren't filling the empty seats want to win, GP & the Maloofs want to win, Theus & the coaching staff want to win, and evey player on the team wants to win. Watch Donte Greene jumping up and down waving his towel, he wants to win even when he gets no PT.

Developing talent doesn't mean throwing rookies into the game for extended minutes to get their heads handed to them by skilled veteran NBA players. PT alone doen't make you better. What makes you better is learning what you need to do, practice doing it, and then and only then try to implement it in an actual game. If you really want to crush the confidence of a rookies, send him in unprepared to play against the Lakers, Boston & Detroit. No one wants to look bad, and they will.

Rebuilding takes time and rookies need time to develop. Not weeks or months but years. Hawes averaged less then 13mins last year, and he's coming along under the guideance of Theus & his staff. JT and Brown have looked good but are in no way ready to start, and need time to learn the NBA game and practice. Greene is a raw talent and could be two years from really contributing.

Don't be so eager to throw the rookies to the wolves. At least let them learn to walk, so that they have a chance.

 

[Showtime]

Your right, we differ in principle, about what the team and the rookies need. You believe wins & losses don't matter if we're not contending. I believe that the possibility of victory, or hope is always important. Look at the quotes of the players after a loss. JT has never had a losing season and he hates losing now. BJax didn't even play in the last game, yet he walked off the court in disgust before time expired.

Whatever emotions the players feel doesn't change reality. The reality is that even if the team was 100% and firing on all cylinders, this year they would be close to a .500 team. Considering they would miss the playoffs, they would be in the lottery, and that's a losing year. Guys being upset at losing doesn't change the fact that they ARE going to lose this year.

So, if they are going to lose either way, why not choose the option that best suits the FUTURE of the team? The first option is to try to win games in a meaningless season (as we have established) by playing the veterans, and the second way would be to develop the kids so they are better prepared for the next few years. I value the future of the team more than the current games.

The 7000 people who aren't filling the empty seats want to win, GP & the Maloofs want to win, Theus & the coaching staff want to win, and evey player on the team wants to win. Watch Donte Greene jumping up and down waving his towel, he wants to win even when he gets no PT.

And what is going to get the team back to contending status the fastest? Having Thompson, Brown, and Greene being more prepared sooner, or playing Brad Miller and Salmons heavy minutes? The fans aren't stupid. They know the team is rebuilding, and they want to see the team get back to 50 win seasons and consistent playoff appearances, not limp in mediocrity because they want to win games in a lottery year.

Developing talent doesn't mean throwing rookies into the game for extended minutes to get their heads handed to them by skilled veteran NBA players. PT alone doen't make you better. What makes you better is learning what you need to do, practice doing it, and then and only then try to implement it in an actual game.

And that's the point: how are these guys supposed to correct things if they don't get on the court? There's only so much a player can do in practice against his same teammates all the time. They need game experience. If they make a mistake in the game, they need the chance to learn from it and correct it on the court instead of waiting until the next game because they got benched. How many times have we seen Donte come in for 2 or 3 minutes stretches, get yanked, and then not get a chance to go back out there until garbage time? If the guys feel that they aren't going to get to play that much, and if they mess up then they get yanked, then that 'walking on eggshells' attitude isn't going to help their confidence in the game.

If you really want to crush the confidence of a rookies, send him in unprepared to play against the Lakers, Boston & Detroit. No one wants to look bad, and they will.

It seems to me that Theus is doing a good job of crushing them himself. If they don't get consistent minutes, and they get yanked for mistakes, and they don't always get more chances until garbage time, it shows them that not only do they have to fear messing up all the time, but that their coach doesn't have confidence in them and doesn't trust them. I'd rather see them lose in the game then lose on the bench, and I'm sure they would too.

Rebuilding takes time and rookies need time to develop. Not weeks or months but years. Hawes averaged less then 13mins last year, and he's coming along under the guideance of Theus & his staff. JT and Brown have looked good but are in no way ready to start, and need time to learn the NBA game and practice. Greene is a raw talent and could be two years from really contributing.

Yes, rookies need time to develop, but there's no guarantee all guys will just come along with spot minutes. Some guys are buried on the bench until they get traded or leave voluntarily and then once they get the chance, they develop into solid players. Brandon Bass wasn't high on Scott's list, went to Dallas, and is a nice young big for them. Gerald Wallace blew up as soon as he got time with the Cats. Jermain Oneal was playing behind Cato in Portland before going to Indiana and becoming an all star. McGrady blew up once he went to Orlando and started. I'm not saying the Kings players are all stars, but you can't always count on things to just come along this way. It doesn't just work like that.

Don't be so eager to throw the rookies to the wolves. At least let them learn to walk, so that they have a chance.

They are going to get beaten if they start or ride the bench either way, so why not let them face the music sooner rather than later and be better for it? Maybe they might find out that they can be wolves themselves.

 

[reid1boys]

Don't be so eager to throw the rookies to the wolves. At least let them learn to walk, so that they have a chance.



Well a few games ago our young guys were getting HUGE minutes and I wouldnt say they were thrown to the wolves. They produced a heck of a lot better result than what we have had since the vets have been slowly coming back.


So not only were JT, Donte, and Im not even sure we should mention Spencer anymore as I think we all agree he is simply one of the better players right now, producing, but we were getting the best of both worlds. Young guys getting minutes and a hustling team that was competing.

 

[VF21]

Some of you keep acting like we're advocating just tossing the kids out there and leaving them there the whole game. I can't speak for anyone else, but I have never said that.

I'm pressing to see quality minutes under learning conditions for the kids, which I guess I should expand to mean that they shouldn't be yanked for making a mistake or two. Leave them out there long enough to let them learn a bit, AND have them out there as part of a blend with the veterans so they don't feel like they're being thrown to the wolves.

At times, I would absolutely LOVE to see Bobby Brown, Kevin, Cisco, Jason and Spencer take the court for a quarter just to see what they could do. If Bobby has too much trouble, bring Beno back in...

There is a happy medium that can be reached with a little judicious ... coaching. It's the lack of vision and some horribly bizarre substitutions I find so upsetting. It's gonzo coaching; and I don't think there's any real reason for it other than Theus is piqued about being criticized.