Admit it

[Tizzy Flip]

Well, to be fair, I used a more colorful word here to describe Tyrese, but the board's profanity filters caught it.

And not bitter at all. I was supportive of the trade for Domas. I also would have been fine had Haliburton not been traded. I was happy to call De'Aaron Fox annoyingly moody and inconsistent while he was here, and I recently came down on Sabonis for how despondent and disinterested he looked in the play-in.

I would have treated Haliburton the same if he had not been dealt. He's smarmy. He's smug. He showboats like Steph Curry despite being a couple levels below him in talent. I don't like that particular aspect of his character. He's also a bottom-tier defender and he's got a maddening disappearing/reappearing act that puts him in a category with guys like Fox and Domas who likewise disappear for stretches when you need them to show up. It's why Indiana is a 50-win team instead of a 60-win team.

Your last 2 sentences are inaccurate. They were a 50 win team since they dealt with big injuries to start the year. Nesmith was out pretty much until mid Jan when they started going on their run. Nembhard was out in November. Mathurin and Turner both were out for some stretches. Their record since start of 2025 was topped only by the Thunder. So their playoff success is more of an indicator of what they’ve done for most of the year without missing their best backcourt defenders

 

[Tizzy Flip]

We will never know, that's my point. Even if we had kept Tyrese - there's no guarantee that any, or all, of the moves after that deal would've paid off. And that is also the point others on here are trying to make - that there's no guarantee that we would've been any better at this point had we kept Tyrese. For all we know, we could've still made the same roster moves to build around Tyrese that we made to build around Fox, and Tyrese could've done the same thing as Fox by also demanding a trade.

So do you share a similar thinking if we drafted Luka instead of Bagley? That there’s no guarantee we would have been better off? We could use your logic for any bad trade and justify it. I mean the Blazers could use that logic about drafting Bowie over Jordan if that makes them feel better about it. It’s really not that complicated, Hali is easy to build around. Fox isn’t since you need to get a batman to lead him. And no batman was coming to Sac to play with Fox unless we drafted him and he fell on our lap. At which point, Fox would prolly complain about him and secretly try and get him pushed out

 

[QWERTYLICIOUS]

So do you share a similar thinking if we drafted Luka instead of Bagley? That there’s no guarantee we would have been better off? We could use your logic for any bad trade and justify it. I mean the Blazers could use that logic about drafting Bowie over Jordan if that makes them feel better about it. It’s really not that complicated, Hali is easy to build around. Fox isn’t since you need to get a batman to lead him. And no batman was coming to Sac to play with Fox unless we drafted him and he fell on our lap. At which point, Fox would prolly complain about him and secretly try and get him pushed out

Luka was/is a generational talent. Hali was/is not. There's nothing to even compare.

 

[Tizzy Flip]

Luka was/is a generational talent. Hali was/is not. There's nothing to even compare.

So there’s now no guarantees…. unless we get a generational talent??? Any more conditions? This is the logic that I guess carries us Kings fans to cope with the reality of consistently bad decision making

 

[QWERTYLICIOUS]

So do you share a similar thinking if we drafted Luka instead of Bagley? That there’s no guarantee we would have been better off? We could use your logic for any bad trade and justify it. I mean the Blazers could use that logic about drafting Bowie over Jordan if that makes them feel better about it. It’s really not that complicated, Hali is easy to build around. Fox isn’t since you need to get a batman to lead him. And no batman was coming to Sac to play with Fox unless we drafted him and he fell on our lap. At which point, Fox would prolly complain about him and secretly try and get him pushed out

Also, you claim that Tyrese would've been easier to build around. I'm not going to disagree with you. But I am also not going to agree with you, because we will never know if that is true.

What I am going to say, however, is that you can't convince me that the front office wouldn't have botched a rebuild around Tyrese like they botched the one around Fox. That's my point.

 

[Tizzy Flip]

Also, you claim that Tyrese would've been easier to build around. I'm not going to disagree with you. But I am also not going to agree with you, because we will never know if that is true.

What I am going to say, however, is that you can't convince me that the front office wouldn't have botched a rebuild around Tyrese like they botched the one around Fox. That's my point.

Unfortunately your logic is a big circular argument, so I’ll stop here. With your logic too, we could also assume Luke would never have been the generational talent he is since we would have botched it

 

[QWERTYLICIOUS]

Unfortunately your logic is a big circular argument, so I’ll stop here. With your logic too, we could also assume Luke would never have been the generational talent he is since we would have botched it

Drafting Luka would've made the rebuild a helluva lot easier than what the "rebuild" has ended up being.
Biggest mistake was the front office drafting Bagley because we had Fox. Especially with a generational talent like Luka still on the board.

 

[Tizzy Flip]

Drafting Luka would've made the rebuild a helluva lot easier than what the "rebuild" has ended up being.
Biggest mistake was the front office drafting Bagley because we had Fox. Especially with a generational talent like Luka still on the board.

But how would we know that?? There’s no guarantee we wouldn’t have botched Luka’s development. See, that’s pretty easy to do I can go in circles too but I’ll stop

 

[QWERTYLICIOUS]

But how would we know that?? There’s no guarantee we wouldn’t have botched Luka’s development. See, that’s pretty easy to do I can go in circles too but I’ll stop

I never said that we wouldn't have botched his development. All I am saying is that it would've been a lot easier for us to build around him than around Fox. We had the perfect opportunity for a quicker rebuild with "Path A", but we/the front office chose "Path B" because we already had someone who fit the mold of "Path A" on the roster, and "Path B" would've given us our big man.

 

[QWERTYLICIOUS]

But how would we know that?? There’s no guarantee we wouldn’t have botched Luka’s development. See, that’s pretty easy to do I can go in circles too but I’ll stop

I never said that we wouldn't have botched his development. All I am saying is that it would've been a lot easier for us to build around him than around Fox. We had the perfect opportunity for a quicker rebuild with "Path A", but we/the front office chose "Path B" because we already had someone who fit the mold of "Path A" on the roster, and "Path B" would've given us our big man.

And, seeing that Luka is no longer a Mav, I am 75-80% confident that our front office would've eventually botched Luka's development, and we probably would still be looking at a rebuild today.

BUT, having Luka on this team would've been a helluva lot more fun and exciting. Especially when compared to Bagley. I could also make a strong argument when compared to Fox.

 

[Mr. S£im Citrus]

Well having lived in the midwest, there’s no way he preferred Indianapolis...

First of All™, I have also lived in the Midwest, and I would absolutely consider Indianapolis over Sacramento, so I guess we're playing dueling anecdotes. But that's neither here nor there because, Second of All, this thesis also presupposes that any objection that Siakam may or may not have had with playing for the Kings had to do with the location, rather than the organization. Not all small markets are created equal.

 

[King Baller]

Who is to say how Luka or Haliburton would have developed as a King. By coincidence Luka and Hali were developed by long time Coach Rick Carlisle. Carlisle is a Pro's Pro. he did a masterful job with each young player.
Who knows maybe Sacto would see Luka as a Forward ala Tyreke Evans. Remeber when Coach Joerger had Fox watch the Vets play from the bench?

Conversely Carlisle told each Luka and Hali 'You Are The Man" and gave them the ball.

Indy was and is a better team. Has had GM Pritchard for years, the Owners are solid. As sad as it is to admit, Indy has a better Organization than the Kings. hey but it is a goal to be similar.

 

[ShastaKingsFan]

Who is to say how Luka or Haliburton would have developed as a King. By coincidence Luka and Hali were developed by long time Coach Rick Carlisle. Carlisle is a Pro's Pro. he did a masterful job with each young player.
Who knows maybe Sacto would see Luka as a Forward ala Tyreke Evans. Remeber when Coach Joerger had Fox watch the Vets play from the bench?

Conversely Carlisle told each Luka and Hali 'You Are The Man" and gave them the ball.

Indy was and is a better team. Has had GM Pritchard for years, the Owners are solid. As sad as it is to admit, Indy has a better Organization than the Kings. hey but it is a goal to be similar.

You know who Geoff Petrie suggested that Ranadive and his people go see for a workout in 2013? Giannis Antetokounmpo

Of course they ignored that advice and didn't go see him,.....but I guess some would ask, "who is to say that Giannis would have developed with the kings". Instead they drafted Ben McLemore

 

[Mr. S£im Citrus]

,,, Indy was and is a better team. Has had GM Pritchard for years, the Owners are solid. As sad as it is to admit, Indy has a better Organization than the Kings. hey but it is a goal to be similar.

This is pretty much what I was getting at. The implication by some appears to be that Siakam went to Indiana solely to play with Haliburton, as if he would have been willing to play with Haliburton literally anywhere. We don't know that, and have no reason whatsoever to believe that.

 

[Capt. Factorial]

You know who Geoff Petrie suggested that Ranadive and his people go see for a workout in 2013? Giannis Antetokounmpo

Of course they ignored that advice and didn't go see him,.....but I guess some would ask, "who is to say that Giannis would have developed with the kings". Instead they drafted Ben McLemore

Of all the missteps of the Ranadive administration, this was probably the worst. You have an outgoing Executive-Of-The-Year-level guy who gives a complete neophyte front office a big freaking wink and hint about what to do, and he just straight ignored it because, you know, he coached his daughter's junior high team once and implemented cherry-picking and it worked, or whatever the dumb thinking was. I'm not saying that Ranadive is even an above-average owner now, but at least he finally seems to understand that he's not the smartest basketball mind in the room some of the time.

Hey, at least the Kings are in Sacramento. Because we got Maloofed, there was a cost to the Kings staying in Sac. It is what it is and it's unlikely to change. We can hope for slow improvement. Better than no team at all.

 

[Tizzy Flip]

This is pretty much what I was getting at. The implication by some appears to be that Siakam went to Indiana solely to play with Haliburton, as if he would have been willing to play with Haliburton literally anywhere. We don't know that, and have no reason whatsoever to believe that.

No one is saying he solely went to Indy to play for Hali. But it was a huge reason. Who said so? Quinn Buckner, who works for the Pacers, and asked Siakam directly. Who proceeded to say he wanted to play with guys who elevated each other up. Interesting he then chose a “lowly” team with Hali over any other option

 

[Joshyjosh31]

And, seeing that Luka is no longer a Mav, I am 75-80% confident that our front office would've eventually botched Luka's development, and we probably would still be looking at a rebuild today.

BUT, having Luka on this team would've been a helluva lot more fun and exciting. Especially when compared to Bagley. I could also make a strong argument when compared to Fox.

Luka was “developing” no matter what the front office did Luka

 

[Mr. S£im Citrus]

No one is saying he solely went to Indy to play for Hali. But it was a huge reason. Who said so? Quinn Buckner, who works for the Pacers, and asked Siakam directly. Who proceeded to say he wanted to play with guys who elevated each other up. Interesting he then chose a “lowly” team with Hali over any other option

Nobody is disputing whether Siakam wanted to play with Haliburton (at least I'm not). What is in dispute is whether or not Siakam would have been willing to play with Haliburton anywhere, Sacramento specifically. It is my contention that he would not.