Donte

[bajaden]

Casspi had a good "experience" for several games. Played lousy. Didn't help the team. You can't continually give that "experience" to a player playing poorly at the detriment of the team. It kills team moral. The guys who do play relatively good are wondering why the hell they are out there busting their butt trying to win when Casspi is sabotaging all of their best efforts. Giving experience to young players isn't an entitlement, and it isn't an absolute. There are legitimate trade-offs. Winning is among them. Westphal gave Casspi plenty of rope and Casspi kicked the chair. Now it's time for Casspi to get some "experience" riding the pine, watching the action, learning from his observation, and hopefully doing a little soul searching about the meaning of "team".

What really gets me is everybody wants Westphal to have a consistent rotation. Rightfully so in my book. Well, now he has done just that apparently. And Casspi, for the moment, may not be part of it. There appears to be no satisfying of some. You lose, they complain about the losing and the rotation. You win, and they complain about the rotation (Casspi not getting minutes). Me, I'm up for the fixed rotation sans Casspi. Let's see if we can actually win some games before being charitable with minutes. How about if we can blow out a team and then Westphal can give Casspi and Pooh some minutes in garbage time.

Lastly, when was the last time Casspi had a good stretch of games in the NBA? November of last year? After last year's All-Star break he was a disaster. So far this year, he's a disaster. I'm not inclined to worry about a guy that has played so poorly over such a long stretch of games. If I were Casspi, on the other hand, I would be worried about my future in the NBA.

Here are the stats of the games Casspi played in. Yes, I know stats don't tell the whole story, but I did see all these games as well, so my opinion is also based on what I saw.

1st game: 20 minutes - 10 points - 4 boards - 1 steal - 2 turnovers - on 4 of 6 shooting. Not great, not terrible. I'd give him a C

2nd game: 20 minutes - 7 points - 2 Boards - 0 steals - 2 turnovers - on 2 of 9 shooting. Not a good game. D-

3rd game: 41 minutes - 20 points - 4 boards - 2 steals - 0 turnovers - on 7 of 10 shooting. Very good game. A

4th game: 32 minutes - 14 points - 0 Boards - 1 steal - 1 turnover - on 5 of 10 shooting. Decent game. Would have been better with some rebounds. C+

5th game: 22 minutes - 3 points - 4 boards - 0 steals - 1 turnover - on 1 of 5 shooting. Bad game. D-

6th game: 25 minutes - 10 points - 4 boards - 0 steals - 1 turnover - on 4 of 9 shooting. Just a fair game. C-

7th game: 27 minutes - 17 points - 4 boards - 1 steal - 1 turnover - on 7 of 14 shooting. Good game. B+

8th game: 35 minutes - 11 points - 7 boards - 0 steals - 2 turnovers - on 4 of 11 shooting. Just a fair game. Nice boards. C

9th game: 23 minutes - 7 points - 4 boards - 2 steals - 1 turnover - on 2 of 8 shooting. Didn't shoot well. Overall wasn't terrible, but I give him a D+

10th game: 13 minutes - 2 points - 2 boards - 0 steals - 0 turnovers - on 0 for 2 shooting. All I can give him is a D-. He didn't really play that much.

Out of 10 games he had 4 bad games. One excellent game. A couple of good games and 3 fair games. He's shooting just under 38% from 3 pt land, which is not bad. As a matter of fact its considered pretty good. He doesn't turn the ball over very much, and he averaging right around a steal a game. He's averaging 4 boards a game, which is slightly under the almost 5 boards a game he averaged last year.

Now you may not like Casspi for some reason, but he's far from terrible. What he is, is a young talented player that makes mistakes and is inconsistent. I might add that Donte falls into that same catagory. I have no problem with Donte starting. I've said from the beginning I didn't give a tinkers damm who started. And I'm not saying either player should be given minutes if their not earning them. But in order to earn minutes, you have to be on the floor. So all I'm saying is, fine, start Donte, and let Casspi come off the bench. And let the quality of their play decide how many minutes either of them get on any given night.

Greene got into the doghouse, as you put it, by coming into camp out of shape, and then not working hard enough to earn his way back onto the court. To the best of my knowledge, Casspi came into camp in good shape and has worked hard on his game. So I don't think its fair to expect equal punishment for Casspi, when in fact he's done nothing wrong that we know about.

 

[Bricklayer]

Casspi had a good "experience" for several games. Played lousy. Didn't help the team. You can't continually give that "experience" to a player playing poorly at the detriment of the team. It kills team moral. The guys who do play relatively good are wondering why the hell they are out there busting their butt trying to win when Casspi is sabotaging all of their best efforts. Giving experience to young players isn't an entitlement, and it isn't an absolute. There are legitimate trade-offs. Winning is among them. Westphal gave Casspi plenty of rope and Casspi kicked the chair. Now it's time for Casspi to get some "experience" riding the pine, watching the action, learning from his observation, and hopefully doing a little soul searching about the meaning of "team".

What really gets me is everybody wants Westphal to have a consistent rotation. Rightfully so in my book. Well, now he has done just that apparently. And Casspi, for the moment, may not be part of it. There appears to be no satisfying of some. You lose, they complain about the losing and the rotation. You win, and they complain about the rotation (Casspi not getting minutes). Me, I'm up for the fixed rotation sans Casspi. Let's see if we can actually win some games before being charitable with minutes. How about if we can blow out a team and then Westphal can give Casspi and Pooh some minutes in garbage time.

Lastly, when was the last time Casspi had a good stretch of games in the NBA? November of last year? After last year's All-Star break he was a disaster. So far this year, he's a disaster. I'm not inclined to worry about a guy that has played so poorly over such a long stretch of games. If I were Casspi, on the other hand, I would be worried about my future in the NBA.

Setting aside that his time has not been quite the long unmitigated disaster you make it out to be...10 games into his sophomore season at age 21/22? Really? The rather incredible impatience fans of this franchise have abruptly developed staggers me.

Here is another player who we really should have buried 10 games into his sophomore season:
20min 11pts (3-10, 1-5, 4-4) 2reb 0ast 1stl 0blk 1TO
24min 10pts (5-9, 0-2, 0-0) 4reb 3ast 1stl 0blk 0TO
22min 7pts (3-7, 1-2, 0-0) 4reb 2ast 0stl 0blk 2TO
8min 0pts (0-2, 0-2, 0-0) 1reb 0ast 1stl 0blk 0TO
10min 3pts (1-4, 1-3, 0-0) 1reb 0ast 0stl 0blk 1TO
33min 15pts (5-15, 2-8, 3-3) 8reb 3ast 2stl 1blk 1TO
20min 7pts (3-5, 1-3, 0-0) 3reb 1ast 0stl 0blk 2TO
16min 4pts (2-7, 0-3, 0-0) 4reb 1ast 0stl 0blk 3TO
21min 14pts (5-8, 2-4, 2-2) 5reb 3ast 2stl 1blk 2TO
25min 11pts (4-8, 2-3, 1-1) 3reb 2ast 1stl 0blk 0TO

Off with his inconsistent soft little non defense playing never draw a foul head I say! Of course if I HAD said that, would Peja have develped into a 3x All Star for us or somebody else? Or nobody at all?

It takes time with kids. There is a reason for the phrase "treat somebody with kid gloves". Bench him for a kid playing better? Sure. But you don't go gallavanting off on some wild vengeance crusade to teach that damn kid a lesson for, hey, what do you know, being inconsistent and playing like a kid. Somebody takes his spot he's already hurting. Now your job is to get his confidence back and find ways to work him back into the lineup and give him another shot to prove himself.

 

[SuperPowerMultiPly]

Casspi had a good "experience" for several games. Played lousy. Didn't help the team. You can't continually give that "experience" to a player playing poorly at the detriment of the team. It kills team moral. The guys who do play relatively good are wondering why the hell they are out there busting their butt trying to win when Casspi is sabotaging all of their best efforts. Giving experience to young players isn't an entitlement, and it isn't an absolute. There are legitimate trade-offs. Winning is among them. Westphal gave Casspi plenty of rope and Casspi kicked the chair. Now it's time for Casspi to get some "experience" riding the pine, watching the action, learning from his observation, and hopefully doing a little soul searching about the meaning of "team".

What really gets me is everybody wants Westphal to have a consistent rotation. Rightfully so in my book. Well, now he has done just that apparently. And Casspi, for the moment, may not be part of it. There appears to be no satisfying of some. You lose, they complain about the losing and the rotation. You win, and they complain about the rotation (Casspi not getting minutes). Me, I'm up for the fixed rotation sans Casspi. Let's see if we can actually win some games before being charitable with minutes. How about if we can blow out a team and then Westphal can give Casspi and Pooh some minutes in garbage time.

Lastly, when was the last time Casspi had a good stretch of games in the NBA? November of last year? After last year's All-Star break he was a disaster. So far this year, he's a disaster. I'm not inclined to worry about a guy that has played so poorly over such a long stretch of games. If I were Casspi, on the other hand, I would be worried about my future in the NBA.

Did Casspi hit you when you were a kid? or someone that looks like him?

 

[DeMoN]

I'd say he's doing pretty good. Kid has so much potential, I cant believe some guys just wanna throw it away

 

[nickmcclure]

I'd say he's doing pretty good. Kid has so much potential, I cant believe some guys just wanna throw it away

I think Westphal is the only one who wants to throw it away.

 

[pshn80]

I've not been a Donte fan. Since starting he has been doing well and in this last game he was spectacular. So I hope the best for him. However, I'm still not ready to bet the ranch on him. He does excel at the spectacular, thrives on it. If the play doesn't call for spectacular he still has to struggle to keep his attention on the situation, to not look and be somewhat lost. It should come for him with the kind of experience he's getting now. Go Donte and make me eat my words.

 

[bajaden]

I've not been a Donte fan. Since starting he has been doing well and in this last game he was spectacular. So I hope the best for him. However, I'm still not ready to bet the ranch on him. He does excel at the spectacular, thrives on it. If the play doesn't call for spectacular he still has to struggle to keep his attention on the situation, to not look and be somewhat lost. It should come for him with the kind of experience he's getting now. Go Donte and make me eat my words.

They're very tasty.. A glass of wine. A little salt and pepper.. Yummie! I speak from experience....

 

[ESP47]

I think it's time to end the Donte project. He can't shoot, can't rebound, can't pass. The only thing he can do is play average defense. Yes he might be our 2nd best defender, but he is still league average because the rest of our guys are so bad. I'd rather have Dalembert shooting 3's than Donte at this point. I'm tired of watching this guy do absolutely nothing every 9 out of 10 games. Then he has one good game and everyone is back on the bandwagon.

 

[Bricklayer]

I think it's time to end the Donte project. He can't shoot, can't rebound, can't pass. The only thing he can do is play average defense. Yes he might be our 2nd best defender, but he is still league average because the rest of our guys are so bad. I'd rather have Dalembert shooting 3's than Donte at this point. I'm tired of watching this guy do absolutely nothing every 9 out of 10 games. Then he has one good game and everyone is back on the bandwagon.

Playing defense is not doing nothing.

 

[Kingstime]

I think it's time to end the Donte project. He can't shoot, can't rebound, can't pass. The only thing he can do is play average defense. Yes he might be our 2nd best defender, but he is still league average because the rest of our guys are so bad. I'd rather have Dalembert shooting 3's than Donte at this point. I'm tired of watching this guy do absolutely nothing every 9 out of 10 games. Then he has one good game and everyone is back on the bandwagon.

Maybe that's what Donte will be? A guy that will play D and knock down a occasional 3....that's a roleplayer....maybe we should just stop expecting so much out of him and realize what he just might be. Honestly there is nothing wrong with that either....

 

[Lockehead]

The only thing that gives Donte that edge in defense is his height and quickness.

I suggest he start putting in work in making himself an offensive threat. Sure we want him on the floor for d, but theres no reason why he cant be more than that, especially with his physical attributes and his young age.

 

[gunks]

Playing defense is not doing nothing.

Donte isnt anywhere NEAR the defender Bowen was. And he isnt NEAR the 3pt shooter Bowen was.

I mean, I know you were just making a point that good D is valuable, but ESP47 was making the point that Donte's D isnt really good enough to counteract all the nothing he brings to the court.


I really dunno about Greene. I want him to succeed. He has loads of potential, and seems to be a very likable offcourt personality. But the dude just doesnt have much drive. I mean, it took Westphal not playing him through ten games to get him to rebound, and now after starting for a stretch he's right back to nothing on the boards. And he isnt a great passer. And he is not that great a scorer. And He looks lost all the time on the court. Aaaaand despite his rep, he really hasnt been locking opposing 3s up with his D.


Still too early to give up on him. But if a trade comes along and the other team wants the Kings to add either Donte or Omri to the package, I'm shipping Greene out.

 

[Lockehead]

He doesnt seem to have that drive to get better as a player. He accepts his role playing position of ball moving, shooting the 3, and going up for lobs.

And why the hell does he shoot 3 pointers like a jumpshot? Hes better off using a set shot

 

[Section 101]

He doesnt seem to have that drive to get better as a player. He accepts his role playing position of ball moving, shooting the 3, and going up for lobs.

And why the hell does he shoot 3 pointers like a jumpshot? Hes better off using a set shot

He has been posting up lately too. Something they should go to more with him since it's been effective.

 

[Lockehead]

Ive seen him posting up his man here and there. If he feels confident with it he should assert himself and get in position and call for the ball.

 

[Tetsujin]

Ive seen him posting up his man here and there. If he feels confident with it he should assert himself and get in position and call for the ball.

He's not out there to post up guys. He's out there to play defense and be the fifth option on offense. If he's constantly trying to "assert" himself, there would be a problem.

 

[Lockehead]

I said he could do more than what hes doing right now. If he could be a threat on offense, and hes confident in his abilities, then by all means apply yourself, itll only give us more options to work with which is a plus to the team as a whole.

 

[D13]

Donte posting up is laughable. In fact, how many small forwards have a post up game? His job is to tie in the backcourt with the frontcourt... aka: (aside from D); shooting, lobs, cuts, perimeter threat (ha), spread the floor... basically SCORE!... and hence, why we are in trouble. A BIG PART OF WHY WE GET NO OUTSIDE SHOOTER RESPECT.

 

[mac]

Makes me wonder what he was doing in his time at Syracuse ... back before he even knew how to play defense.

 

[kingsboi]

Donte is really starting to frustrate the hell out of me. How his IQ is so low is beyond me, he doesn't know what to do out there by now? Jesus man, grow up! Study tape, watch lots of film, improve your game.

 

[UK_King]

Westphal singled him out for praise last night.

 

[FaStRmAn]

Donte is really starting to frustrate the hell out of me. How his IQ is so low is beyond me, he doesn't know what to do out there by now? Jesus man, grow up! Study tape, watch lots of film, improve your game.

I dont think that Donte has a low IQ per se. I think his basketball IQ is not where it needs to be this far into his career. His three point shot was dead on last season, but this year it has been very streaky. His defense at times is invaluable. He is one of the few defensive stoppers we have as a perimeter defender. Donte draws some tough assignments on defense, so if his offense isn't spectacular, you could live with that. It is the other aspects of his game that are disturbing. His rebounding numbers for a 6'11" NBA player are horrible. He should be collecting 5-7 rebounds a game. Mostly defensive rebounds because he is on the perimeter on the offensive end. He needs to work on his midrange game. He either hoists up a 3, or tries to drive all the way to the rim. Usually drawing a charge in the process. If he could incorporate a runner or a pop up jumper around the Key, his game would significantly improve. Donte is a veteran now on this team. His effort should be an example to the younger players. The act of Rebounding is all about effort and position. Players far shorter than Donte collect way more rebounds because of their effort! I'd like to see Donte REALLY earn that starting position at SF by increasing his rebounding effort, playing good defense, and score in the rhythm of the team offense.

Last night I saw Donte come down on a 2 on 3 break. Instead of waiting for the rest of his team to get down the floor, he hoisted up a 15 footer that was good. Problem is, if he had missed there was no one to rebound the ball for the Kings and it would have become a fast break for the other team!. That is an example of how His Basketball IQ needs to improve. His effort level needs to improve. Coming into camp out of shape was unforgivable. I am sure his teammates lost a lot of respect for him when he showed up 20 lbs heavy and out of shape. I believe Greene has the talent and the athleticism to become a premier SF in this league. But he really needs to be a lot more dedicated to his game! He needs to show the younger players how to hustle and earn time on the floor! Lets hope that Donte starts to improve on the basketball court and worry less about the "Donte Green Show". Effort is the one thing all these young Kings can control. If they all perform at the level their talent dictates, this Kings team would not be the cellar dweller that they are today. Donte isn't the only guilty player, but as a vet he needs to lead by example and give his all to show the young players on the team what it takes to win NBA games. Donte has what it takes. He just needs to apply himself more and increase his effort level!

 

[ESP47]

Playing defense is not doing nothing.

C'mon Brick, I don't post a lot but I do respect you as one of the more intelligent members on this forum. Now you cannot sit here and compare Bowen to Donte. Donte is not Bowen, Battier, Price, Artest, or even a James Posey. The only reason he is considered a good defender is because of how bad the rest of our defenders are. I mean if he starts with Cousins, Thompson and Beno, of course he is going to look like a defensive god out there. Those guys are all D or F defenders. Tyreke is probably a C defender and I'd give Donte a C+. So what if he can hold 25ppg scorers to 20pts? He only scores a small handful of points himself so he's still doing no better than a guy like Beno, who will score 15 and give up 25 to his opponent. I know basketball isn't black and white like that but if you are going to be a one trick pony, then you better be really good at that one trick or else you wont last in this league.

The dude is just way too inconsistant. From game to game and from year to year. He shot 37% from 3 last year and below 30% the other two years he's been in the league. His first year in the league he shot 85% from the stripe. Now he's down to 55%. With his size and athleticism he should be getting at least 6-7 rebounds a game if he's playing 28-32min a game. Instead he's getting about 3.

The Kings kind of remind me of the 49ers. It's either the coaching or a lot of players that will just never reach their potential. Aside from Tyreke and Cousins (even though I'm not impressed with him at all, he still needs a shot), I would be ok with getting rid of everyone else on this team and starting over. Too many projects, too many guys are unclutch, too many guys just don't seem to care.

 

[Lockehead]

Donte posting up is laughable. In fact, how many small forwards have a post up game? His job is to tie in the backcourt with the frontcourt... aka: (aside from D); shooting, lobs, cuts, perimeter threat (ha), spread the floor... basically SCORE!... and hence, why we are in trouble. A BIG PART OF WHY WE GET NO OUTSIDE SHOOTER RESPECT.

Why not? If he can do it then take advantage. I dont think a post up game would be his forte but i have seen him in the low post working with some hook shots which may be effective with his height. I think he'd be a great face up shooter though since he can just easily elevate over his defender and shoot over him. He should continue what hes doing right now, and at the same time expand his game and add to our offensive sets.

 

[bajaden]

He's not out there to post up guys. He's out there to play defense and be the fifth option on offense. If he's constantly trying to "assert" himself, there would be a problem.

I have no problem with Donte asserting himself on offense, as long as he takes good shots. He can't just be a 0 on offense. No team can afford a player that contributes nothing on the offensive end. Personally I don't think he's as great a defender as everyone else does. He plays good defense at times, but he's a long way from being a lock down defender. I don't see him as more than the 4th or 5th option right now, but there's no reason he can't become more than that in the future.

 

[bajaden]

Donte posting up is laughable. In fact, how many small forwards have a post up game? His job is to tie in the backcourt with the frontcourt... aka: (aside from D); shooting, lobs, cuts, perimeter threat (ha), spread the floor... basically SCORE!... and hence, why we are in trouble. A BIG PART OF WHY WE GET NO OUTSIDE SHOOTER RESPECT.

I'm not going to defend Greene's poor play, but I disagree with you on SF's not having a post up game. There arre quite a few SF's that post up. LeBron James is an excellent post up player. Posting up is a huge part of Melo's game. Ditto Ron Artest. Others like Battier, Stephen Jackson, and Paul Pierce are alll good post up guys. Its just that you have to pick you time. Usually its when a mismatch presents itself.

 

[Big Cuz 15]

maybe we can bring in bowen as a special assistant to teach our young guys how to play dirty defense.

 

[Section 101]

C'mon Brick, I don't post a lot but I do respect you as one of the more intelligent members on this forum. Now you cannot sit here and compare Bowen to Donte. Donte is not Bowen, Battier, Price, Artest, or even a James Posey. The only reason he is considered a good defender is because of how bad the rest of our defenders are. I mean if he starts with Cousins, Thompson and Beno, of course he is going to look like a defensive god out there. Those guys are all D or F defenders. Tyreke is probably a C defender and I'd give Donte a C+. So what if he can hold 25ppg scorers to 20pts? He only scores a small handful of points himself so he's still doing no better than a guy like Beno, who will score 15 and give up 25 to his opponent. I know basketball isn't black and white like that but if you are going to be a one trick pony, then you better be really good at that one trick or else you wont last in this league.

The dude is just way too inconsistant. From game to game and from year to year. He shot 37% from 3 last year and below 30% the other two years he's been in the league. His first year in the league he shot 85% from the stripe. Now he's down to 55%. With his size and athleticism he should be getting at least 6-7 rebounds a game if he's playing 28-32min a game. Instead he's getting about 3.

The Kings kind of remind me of the 49ers. It's either the coaching or a lot of players that will just never reach their potential. Aside from Tyreke and Cousins (even though I'm not impressed with him at all, he still needs a shot), I would be ok with getting rid of everyone else on this team and starting over. Too many projects, too many guys are unclutch, too many guys just don't seem to care.

Bowen didnt take off till he went to the spurs. That was in his seventh year and 5th team. His highest average pts / game was 8.2 in his 10th year. Career average was 6.1. Donte averaged 8.5 last year. He's way ahead of where Bowen was at the same point in their careers.

 

[rainmaker]

maybe we can bring in bowen as a special assistant to teach our young guys how to play dirty defense.

Well Doug Christie has publicly offered to help any member of the kings with defense, and I have yet to hear of anyone taking up his offer. Tyreke, Omri, and Donte would learn a lot by working with someone like Doug.

I would actually love to see Doug added as an assistant.

 

[Kingster]

I'm not sure that Donte's potential is as high as many think. Reynolds has acknowledged that.

Offensively, he has very little going for him. He's not at all creative with the ball, which is what separates the also-rans from superior 3s. He absolutely cannot create his own shot. He's not a very good dribbler, especially at changing directions. He can occassionally drive to the basket, but oftentimes he gets his shot blocked because he doesn't elevate off the drive. He can take a dribble or two and make a nice pass, which I think is the nicest thing he has going for him. His shooting is inconsistent. Will it get better? Probably, if he works on it.

Rebounding the ball doesn't seems his forte, and I think it's because he's just not quick to the ball, which if you're playing the 3, that's what you need to have.

Defensively, he's pretty good, but he's not extremely quick like you would have with a superior defender, and he really has trouble changing directions on the defensive end. He can block shots, but we're not seeing as much of that as I would like. He could be a much better help defender. It almost seems like he was better last in that aspect of his game last year.