=LarryLegend=
Starter
Why cant he be sent down to Reno for the year? I don't get it. the kid is lost. 
Donte Greene
- Thread starter =LarryLegend=
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Kingster
Hall of Famer
Why cant he be sent down to Reno for the year? I don't get it. the kid is lost.
I get it. The kid obviously hasn't favorably impressed the coach. Westphal has gotten Beno to play pretty well, so maybe over the next two years he can work a miracle with Greene.
=LarryLegend=
Starter
Why doesnt Petrie have faith in the NBDL......can practicing against the same people make you better? what about growth in shot selection and game time decision making?
Section 101
All-Star
No. He has a contract. The players that go to Europe dont have contracts with NBA teams, but the teams own their rights.
kennadog
Dog On It!
This is the last year the Kings can send him down to the NBDL.
Maybe its because the NBDL game schedule doesn't start until Nov 27th.
Maybe they aren't that thrilled with the coaching or maybe its because he'd play with and against mostly non-NBA level types.
Finally, who says they won't send him down at some point?
Maybe its because the NBDL game schedule doesn't start until Nov 27th.
Maybe they aren't that thrilled with the coaching or maybe its because he'd play with and against mostly non-NBA level types.
Finally, who says they won't send him down at some point?
bajaden
Hall of Famer
rainmaker
Hall of Famer
I've gotten the exact opposite impression of donte in practice. He went from spot minutes, to not even suiting up the last 2 games. But maybe you heard something I have not.
kings4lyfe32
Bench
exactly, he needs to be sent down ASAP
Lately I'm changing my opinion about the D-league. There aren't that many success stories of players dominating the D-league and then going on to become solid NBA players. There's not much point sending him down. We know he can score and that's all he's going to do in the D league against weaker competition. He's already developed enough bad habits. He needs to work his way into the rotation by taking smarter shots and playing defense.
That being said, there's absolutely no reason why he shouldn't get 10 minutes a night on this team regardless of whether or not he "gets it" yet. He should be playing in every game and one of the assistant coaches (maybe former D-league coach of the year Bryan Gates?) should be going over the game tape with him and telling him what the coaches think he should work on to earn himself a bigger role. He's not a kid anymore, he's a professional. He's either going to be a part of this team going forward or he's not. You can get drafted on potential, but if you don't show that you can build on that within a reasonable amount of time than you simply don't belong on the team.
That being said, there's absolutely no reason why he shouldn't get 10 minutes a night on this team regardless of whether or not he "gets it" yet. He should be playing in every game and one of the assistant coaches (maybe former D-league coach of the year Bryan Gates?) should be going over the game tape with him and telling him what the coaches think he should work on to earn himself a bigger role. He's not a kid anymore, he's a professional. He's either going to be a part of this team going forward or he's not. You can get drafted on potential, but if you don't show that you can build on that within a reasonable amount of time than you simply don't belong on the team.
bloom
Starter
I'm not disputing you, but how do you know he's getting better in practice?
Here’s a couple things that was written in the Bee. Donte seems like he’s understanding what Coach is trying to tell him. Hopefully with Kevin’s injury it will give him some decent minutes.
Source: http://www.sacbee.com/kings/story/2247301.html
bajaden
Hall of Famer
Yes, I've read all those before. I'm talking about lately. Those were from preseason. Obviously something has happened between now and then. When your a young player trying to earn minutes, its what have you done lately. You have no history to go on. Mason is an example of a player that got minutes strictly on past history, and now he's gone. Greene has done nothing, and I mean nothing to show he deserves anything given him.
If you have a player that doesn't get it. That doesn't have dedication and focus. That doesn't show you any impovement in practice. Do you reward him by taking minutes away from another player thats busting his butt in practice and in games? I don't know if all of the above are true with Greene, but suspect that at least some of it is.
How long would a baseball player last in the majors if he couldn't hit or field? How long would a football player last in the NFL if he couldn't tackle or remember how to run routes or the plays? Would they give him time on the field just because? This isn't an idictment of Greene. Its an idictment of all those that think he should be getting minutes without doing something to earn them. Its obvious that Westphal isn't afraid to play anyone he thinks can help. When your not even suiting up on a team that had 17 wins last year, then something is wrong.
Kingster
Hall of Famer
I think with Martin out there could be plenty of games with at least 6-7 minutes of garbage time, so you may get your wish. Westphal could insert him into garbage as the first phase of the process of trying to improve his game.
bajaden
Hall of Famer
And your point is? I thought thats what I was talking about, unless your not talking to me...
Well I can't really speak about football, but with the baseball analogy -- it actually does happen a lot that young players are allowed to play poorly for long stretches of time in the majors in hopes that they'll turn it around. That's pretty much been the entire basis of Oakland's team for the past 10 years. It wouldn't happen on a team like the Yankees, but teams with smaller payrolls have to take chances on young players because the marquee free agents aren't affordable. And since baseball is all about sample sizes anyway, it's not unusual for a player to be terrible at the plate for 200 or 300 at bats before figuring things out. It's all about getting enough repetitions to feel comfortable out there and making constant adjustments.
Just last year they let Rajai Davis play even though all evidence suggested he couldn't hit and he was shaky in the outfield, and he eventually played like one of the best players on the team. They let an entire rotation of rookie pitchers play even though most of them would have been better off in minors. The hope going forward is that the added experience will get them to their full potential sooner. I don't know if it's going to work or not (there are reasons to be optimistic and reasons not to) but it is certainly a strategy that a lot of teams employ. Particularly teams near the bottom of their division with nothing to play for this year (like the Kings).
If I believed that sending Donte Greene to the D-league would help him I would be all for it. I don't think it would though. He's what they call in baseball a "AAAA" player. He's too good for AAA and not good enough for the majors. Those types of players don't get better by tearing it up in AAA. He's going to need more attention from the coaching staff than the veteran players, but he needs to be with this team. I honestly thinks that's the best thing for his development. That doesn't necessarily mean he has to play every game, but I'd prefer he work through his mistakes in "real time" at game speed and that means getting minutes regularly. The only real risk is that he loses confidence and stops trying. But looking at his shot selection, it's never seemed to me that he's lacking in confidence.
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HighTopKicks
Bench
PW stated that Donte needs to improve on D, and make better shot selections. So, is Donte going to get better coaching to improve his D, here or on a D-League team? Are the D-League teams running the same Defense that PW wants to run? So is Donte going to get better defensively on a team running a defense different than what the Kings run & trained by coaches that can't make it into the NBA? Or, is he going to learn more under PW?
Donte needs quality minutes not quantity minutes. He's two year out of playing street ball, and one year out of playing zone defense at Cuse. Besides, with Martin & Cisco down and Mason gone, Donte is going to get PT at the 3/4 soon.
Donte needs quality minutes not quantity minutes. He's two year out of playing street ball, and one year out of playing zone defense at Cuse. Besides, with Martin & Cisco down and Mason gone, Donte is going to get PT at the 3/4 soon.
bajaden
Hall of Famer
Having played baseball at a fairly high level, I do know a little bit about it. But I will acknowledge that there is a bit of a gray area. Funny that you should mention Oakland, because I'm a fan of the team, but not a fan of how its run or managed. I did say that if a player couldn't hit or field, and I'll add pitch, how long would he be tolerated at the major league level. Davis was always a good fielder. The question was, could he hit if given a chance. My point is, you have to be able to do at least one or the other.
Which brings us back to Greene. First let me say, that it seems like I'm hammering on him. Actually, I like him. I want him to suceed. Unfortuantely, I can't do it for him. Nor can you. He's been blessed with athletic ability. Other than that, I haven't seen much of a skill level from him. There's no doubt that he should have stayed in school another year. Maybe two years. But he didn't, and he belongs to us. So the question is, what do you do with him. If you keep him on the team you have to hope that practicing with the team will improve him. Or, you send him down to the developmental league to develop.
I don't think its going to work giving him playing time, just to give him playing time. What is it that he does that seperates him from others. Even Justin Williams, who can't seem to find a spot on a team could make an impact in the few minutes he got to play. When you put him in a game you knew that at least he was going to rebound and block shots. What is it that you know ( not you personally ) Greene is going to do when he enters a game. Is he a defensive player, or an offensive player? Is he a PF or a SF? Hopefully the light will go off in his head and he'll figure it out. He has a long way to go. Say what you want about Gerold Wallace. You certainly knew he was in the game.
Heuge
Starter
Thats a famous quote by Allen Iverson.And your point is? I thought thats what I was talking about, unless your not talking to me...
I've been frustrated with the same thing. When he's been out there playing, he's not making much of an impact. That doesn't surprise me that much though considering his style of play. When he's been dominant in summer league it's been with his scoring. If we pretend he's Kobe Bryant and let him hoist up 30 shots a game he'd probably average 20 or so points, but he wouldn't be doing much else and they wouldn't be high percentage points. Justin Williams was a defensive role player so just doing what he does well was going to have an impact. Gerald Wallace is ridiculously athletic and fearless so he's going to make an impression pretty quickly. But we're asking Donte Greene to make an impact without giving him the green light to score when scoring is all he's ever done. It's not just a matter of him not knowing what to do, the coaching staff is trying to change the way he plays-- teach him to play defense, teach him to choose his spots instead of letting it fly early and often. That's going to take time. And sending him to a D-league team where he can be the big dog again and score 20 points per game without worrying about NBA defenses seems more likely to reinforce those old habits than change them. He already knows he has to play defense to get in the games. He already knows he has to be smarter about the shots he's taking. So give him a few minutes a game and see if he shows improvement.
Like you said, we all want Donte to succeed because his success is going to benefit the team. I don't really know how to get him there either, it's just a difference of opinion (and a hypothetical one at that). He wouldn't be the first NBA player to be buried on our bench and then have success elsewhere though. That's mostly what I'm afraid of.
If Greene walks like a duck and talks like a duck........
I just don't think he gets it and by the time he does he will be out of the league, still wondering what happened.
He needs to look up the word "commitment" and apply himself. It's a shame to see him wasting the natural talent he has. Some day maybe he will figure out that the NBA has a lot of players with natural talent. The players that succeed are the players that have "COMMITMENT"!
He is soooo frustrating!
bloom
Starter
You’re right, you don’t want to put in a player that has no clue what he’s doing and doesn't want to improve himself but I was assuming that Donte -since the pre-season- has continued to work and improve himself. I would still love to see him on the floor and see maybe he’s starting to put it together. I really think he needs the time and with Kevin out, I hope he gets an opportunity and I’m crossing my fingers that when he finally hits the floor that he takes full advantage of the playing time…The season just started, there’s a lot more basketball to play, so maybe he’ll see playing time later in the season. Whatever the case I don’t want to see Donte in the D-League. He should be with the rest of the guys on this team.
In the last game he played, there was a play which sums up how I feel about him right now:
Tyreke has the ball and Donte is on the other side of the floor. A teammate motions to Donte that he needs to move futher away from the basket. Donte complies by completely turning his back to the ball and lazily trots out to the 3 point line. At the same time Tyreke attacks the basket and would've gotten a layup except Donte's defender saw Donte wasn't paying attention, immediately left him, and blocked Tyreke's shot. By the time Donte turned around, the other team was already running towards their basket.
From that play, I realized just how far behind he is on his development, and a realistic shot at cracking the rotation. It seems he cares more about how he looks on the floor as oppose to playing with a sense of urgency. I hope he changes his mentality for the better, and quickly.
Tyreke has the ball and Donte is on the other side of the floor. A teammate motions to Donte that he needs to move futher away from the basket. Donte complies by completely turning his back to the ball and lazily trots out to the 3 point line. At the same time Tyreke attacks the basket and would've gotten a layup except Donte's defender saw Donte wasn't paying attention, immediately left him, and blocked Tyreke's shot. By the time Donte turned around, the other team was already running towards their basket.
From that play, I realized just how far behind he is on his development, and a realistic shot at cracking the rotation. It seems he cares more about how he looks on the floor as oppose to playing with a sense of urgency. I hope he changes his mentality for the better, and quickly.
And those two phrases are, most likely, a good part of the reason why Donte Greene hasn't seen court time. I think it's very simple - Greene just doesn't get it.
You know what? Cut him then. If you don't think he's ever going to get it, drop his ***. But I'll continue to "say" this until I run out of "breath:" I don't care if he's the next star, or if he's a bum, and never realizes his potential, much in the same vein of a Jonathan Bender. This is a last-place team, okay? We're not talking about a team that's going somewhere, and Greene is keeping us from getting there. This team is only going one place, and it's the same place we went last year, and the year before that: the lottery. Full speed ahead, do not pass go, do not collect two hundred dollars.
At this particular point in time, nobody above the age of twenty-six should be getting any time on this team for any reason whatsoever. With the arguable exception of Garcia, nobody above the age of twenty-six should even be on the team. Udoka, Thomas, Nocioni and Udrih should all be GONE. Capital G, capital O, capital N, capital E. GONE. However, and for whatever, GONE. As in, "I don't care how, Marvin K. Mooney, would you please go now" GONE. And if Greene can't cut it, then his *** should be GONE, too, but whatever you do, for the love of Og, don't sit him in favor of Ime F. Udoka!
Play him, trade him, or cut him.
At this particular point in time, nobody above the age of twenty-six should be getting any time on this team for any reason whatsoever. With the arguable exception of Garcia, nobody above the age of twenty-six should even be on the team. Udoka, Thomas, Nocioni and Udrih should all be GONE. Capital G, capital O, capital N, capital E. GONE. However, and for whatever, GONE. As in, "I don't care how, Marvin K. Mooney, would you please go now" GONE. And if Greene can't cut it, then his *** should be GONE, too, but whatever you do, for the love of Og, don't sit him in favor of Ime F. Udoka!
Play him, trade him, or cut him.
bajaden
Hall of Famer
I share your frustration. And, I don't have an answer. I guess the biggest question is how bad does Greene want it. Does he seriously want to be a good NBA player, or is this just a fairytale come true, and he's wallowing around in la la land. Don't know, and I'm starting to not care. I can only hope that Westphal knows what he's doing, and that the results will be Greene showing up one day as a legitimate player..
What's the ratio of young talent suddenly getting motivated by being behind career journeymen, without ultimately switching teams?
PT or C.
PT or C.