Donte at the 2??

R

reid1boys

G-League
So watching last night's game and seeing AI trying to stop a posting Donte has me pretty intrigued. what do you think of Donte as the future 2 on this team?

His defense appears to be really coming around, and we have seen both Donte and Casspi covering smaller quicker players, so I dont think defense comes into play.

I think i am liking this huge lineup.

When Martin returns he is going to start, so who comes off the bench? Caspi or Donte?

And once again I am pissed at watching Donte sit for far too long in last nights game. He just gets sent to the bench for too long of stretches. Isnt this the time to let this kid blossom into a star?


As i think about this, this is foolish anyways. Martin is going to be the 2, so Donte goes back to the 3... but these are good problems.

he has star potential, let him off the hooks and go to it.
 
Swinging Donte between the 2 and 3 with Casspi and Cisco is one of the reasons those advocating a Martin trade are doing so.

Too many good players, not enough minutes... who gets the short end of the stick? Has to be someone.
 
Im ok with a Cisco trade, not a Martin trade. And I like that rotation of Martin, Caspi, and Donte, along with Some Beno in that mix as well.

We will not have too many good players, we will have the best bench in the league possibly, The Bench mob part 2.
 
Im ok with a Cisco trade, not a Martin trade. And I like that rotation of Martin, Caspi, and Donte, along with Some Beno in that mix as well.
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I would keep Martin but I think it's more probably to get a good center by trading him instead of Cisco.

BTW How long it's going to be Cisco's injury??
 
I like Donte at the SG spot for two reasons.

1. It forces him to get his outside shot going early on. Hes had his best games so far when getting his shot to drop early. On the other end, he seems to have his worst games when he starts out in the post.

2. I'm assuming Casspi is on the floor at the same time as Donte and would much rather have him at the SF spot due to his superior rebounding ability.
 
reid1boys said:
We will not have too many good players, we will have the best bench in the league possibly, The Bench mob part 2.
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We have enough for two bench mobs, there's only 48 minutes in a game. Some of these guys are getting paid to be 35+ mpg players, you can't keep everyone, especially with the lack of front court depth we have.
 
donte should not be playing sg... he should be playing his natural position, sf... if anything we should be trying to trade nocioni and garcia.
 
AriesMar27 said:
donte should not be playing sg... he should be playing his natural position, sf... if anything we should be trying to trade nocioni and garcia.
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Why Noc and Garcia? IMO that thins us out too much. You keep Garcia to back up Martin and Donte and Casspi at the 3. Why thin it down to where you have Donte bouncing between 2 and 3 and if he goes down ???????
 
Trade Nocioni, Garcia, and Martin if the price is right. One of those players has to be dealt quickly. No dont START Donte at the 2, slide him over to the 2 as needed.
 
DocHolliday said:
Why Noc and Garcia? IMO that thins us out too much. You keep Garcia to back up Martin and Donte and Casspi at the 3. Why thin it down to where you have Donte bouncing between 2 and 3 and if he goes down ???????
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i shouldve said and/or...
 
Personally, down the road, I like the idea of starting Omri at the 2. Both Donte and Omri are more natural at the sf, but Omri has more potential at developing as a sg IMO.

Obviously Kevin is our sg until something happens. I'm not getting into that in this thread. But if/when Kevin is moved, I'm looking for Omri to be his replacement, while keeping Donte at the 3. Omri isn't that great of a ballhandler at this point, but I've seen the ability from him to get by perimeter players off the dribble. He's also had some impressive moments in the open court.

At 6'9", he would definately be on the tall end of sg's in the league, but its been done successfully before. Orlando did it with Hedo/Rashard at the wings. Eventually, I could see Omri developing into a Hedo type player, and being able to bring the ball up the court.

Ginobli is another similar comparison. He's shorter than Omri, but has no problem bringing the ball up the court or guarding opposing sg's, and Omri is just as quick and Ginobli.

So offensively, I see the potential, but there are a lot of questions left to be answered. However, defensively, have Tyreke, Omri, and Donte at our 1,2, and 3 would be scary for opposing teams. The height, quickness, and physicality of these guys, and another few years of experience, could result in each of them becoming one of the better perimeter defenders in the league. It might not be your ideal lineup, but in the playoffs, and against teams which slow it down and play half-court ball, that lineup will win games after they mature as players.

Of course, all this would only work if a) we have a different center, or b) spencer improves big-time, defensively and rebouding.
 
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I would have said no way before this season started, that he was an obvious SF, but the real test of whether you can play a position is whether you can defend it, and Donte has been a revelation in that aspect -- he can. Not only that, but he has shown just how and why he could be such a brutal force there offensively once he gets his game organzised. He can shoot the three, he can post, and his driving ability, while still untamed, is surprising. Like Reke I think just too much size there for little guards to contend with.

And one more time on the Martin thing -- when he returns that is 36 minutes gone from the SG spot and threads like this are all obsolete. The SG spot goes back to Martinism, in all the ways that is good and all the ways that is bad. There are nothing but cleanup minutes for any of these other guys.
 
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Actually, whether Omri or Donte I wouldnt care... I just like the HUGE size mismatch. I think both Omri and Donte can post up pretty well, and just imagine how much better the post game will be in 2 years for both of them.


Oh, and Omri FINISHES. I love him finishing, he doesnt go up soft and lay it up in traffic, he goes up (and in my best Walton voice) "Throws it down big man!"


I know Martin is coming in for 36 minutes,so just imagine trying to come up with the rotation in a few weeks.

I see Noc getting almost no time when Martin returns. This is going to be interesting for sure.
 
Well, if it bears out that Donte/Reke is an effective pairing, then that officially becomes the back court from hell. As in, bigger than some front courts. I like it.
 
Mr Greene is our future starting 3 as far as I'm concerned. Casspi is the perfect guy to come off the bench for the next two years and even if Martin were to be traded I would imagine Greene's future is at the 3.
 
It would depend on the matchup. Last night was prime example. Donte should have scored every time on those post ups. I like Westphal's willingness to mix up the lineups.
 
They dont score every time when shooting free throws:)

Bottom line is that Donte missed some shots down low, but it was not because of the defense. That is the beauty of him against a small gaurd. he will make or miss the shot based upon how he does, not based upon how well he is defended. Iverson is about as small as a defender as he will ever see though.
 
is this what it boils down to now... we arent as talented as everyone else but we can be taller than they are. hahahahaha...
 
AriesMar27 said:
is this what it boils down to now... we arent as talented as everyone else but we can be taller than they are. hahahahaha...
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Donte has actually shown to have decent feel while in the post, though unfortunately for us he didn't show it in the 76'ers game. When Donte plays the SG Westphal almost always looks to post Donte in the first couple of possessions, which is what he should be doing.

Even when Donte isn't scoring, he can be successful by just causing the other team to have to double him. Then it becomes an issue of Donte recognizing the double and either passing out if it, or getting off a good uncontested shot.

That is the beauty of being taller than everyone. If you're smart about it, you can force a mismatch to occur and then ideally take advantage of the mismatch by either getting the score or disrupting the defense enough to get a good scoring opportunity for another teammate.

Now my preference is to see Donte at the 3 spot, but only if we have a full-sized SG also on the floor with Tyreke. If Tyreke is out on the floor I'd rather see a Casspi/Donte lineup rather than a Beno/Donte lineup, as a Tyreke/Casspi/Donte lineup causes mismatches all over the court for us.

As I've said numerous times I still think that the very best lineup for us going into the end of the year is Tyreke/Francisco/Donte with Casspi coming off the bench. If Tyreke/Donte/Casspi all continue to grow at the same rate they've been growing and Francisco comes back shooting the same as he did earlier, that is a fantastically intense/talented group, and one I think could grow to championship aspirations. We'd just need to make a major move in terms of a Defensive Big Man.
 
Why is there this assumption that Martin will come back and have 36 min no questions asked? Westfal seems to play whomever is playing well. Here is the scenario: If Martin is going to be our scorer, excels in the offense and picks up his D, he gets 35+. If he's not doing these things - and Omri or Donte are bringing more or something different/more productive, why not take minutes from Martin? When/if Martin sits or gets cut minutes, there will be talk of imminent trade - and isn't this what some are asking for or expecting if he doesn't sit best in the new system? I think it could become much more complicated than that Martin coming in and Omri and Donte getting very limited minutes.
 
SCKingsfan said:
Why is there this assumption that Martin will come back and have 36 min no questions asked?
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I think it is likely that Westphal will start Kevin off the bench for the first couple of games. When Martin returned from his injury last year the same was done and it worked out very well.

With that said, Kevin was averaging 42 minutes a game before his injury. He was our best player last year, and coming into this season he was our best player as well as being our highest paid player.

I think it's automatic that he'll be getting at a minimum 35 minutes a game, which would still be a 7 MPG reduction from what he was getting earlier in the season.

I just don't see any way that Westphal will take the player who was averaging 30 PPG, who happens to be our highest paid player and the previous face of the franchise and only give him 25 minutes a game. Even if Kevin isn't shooting well, we all know the saying "You've got to shoot yourself out of slumps", so I don't see a huge decrease in minutes for Martin based on performance.

I do see Westphal decreasing Martin's minutes if Martin is not playing with passion or intensity, but I for one believe that Martin is going to be coming back with a great deal of passion and intensity so he can prove to all his teammates and coaches that he belongs with this new dynamic team.
 
SCKingsfan said:
Why is there this assumption that Martin will come back and have 36 min no questions asked? Westfal seems to play whomever is playing well. Here is the scenario: If Martin is going to be our scorer, excels in the offense and picks up his D, he gets 35+. If he's not doing these things - and Omri or Donte are bringing more or something different/more productive, why not take minutes from Martin? When/if Martin sits or gets cut minutes, there will be talk of imminent trade - and isn't this what some are asking for or expecting if he doesn't sit best in the new system? I think it could become much more complicated than that Martin coming in and Omri and Donte getting very limited minutes.
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I follow this train of thought. Westphal has already shown a disinclination towards arbitrary assignment of minutes. One of the things we've already seen this year is good use of the bench to rotate in fresh players and when Martin and then Garcia come back, I don't see what it cannot work ... at least for now. And I'm not particularly interested in the argument that it won't work because it's never worked. Basketball is a changing game and I'm certainly willing to wait and give Westphal every opportunity to find a plan that works for him and the Kings.
 
SCKingsfan said:
Why is there this assumption that Martin will come back and have 36 min no questions asked? Westfal seems to play whomever is playing well. Here is the scenario: If Martin is going to be our scorer, excels in the offense and picks up his D, he gets 35+. If he's not doing these things - and Omri or Donte are bringing more or something different/more productive, why not take minutes from Martin? When/if Martin sits or gets cut minutes, there will be talk of imminent trade - and isn't this what some are asking for or expecting if he doesn't sit best in the new system? I think it could become much more complicated than that Martin coming in and Omri and Donte getting very limited minutes.
Click to expand...

That's just not the way it works in the NBA. And certainly not at $11mil a year after being touted as some sort of bargain basement face of the franchise the last few years. He's not going to be a first among equals. He's just going to be a first. Everyone else will have to adapt around the edges. Its why he's such a threat to what we've had going. He's a major player, and our ranking vet. If he were just another Sergio ro something you'd shrug, bench if he wanted to play weenieball, and move on. That's not realistically an option here. And even it were, it would STILL stink up your feel good season by becoming a major side issue constantly under discussion, eventually leading to inevitable agent/trade chatter etc.

Make no doubt about it, we may try to ease him in for a few games, but once he's up and running Kevin is going to inevitably eat 3/4 of those minutes and also drain away more shots than the guys playing those minutes in his absence have been taking.
 
Bricklayer said:
That's just not the way it works in the NBA. And certainly not at $11mil a year after being touted as some sort of bargain basement face of the franchise the last few years. He's not going to be a first among equals. He's just going to be a first. Everyone else will have to adapt around the edges. Its why he's such a threat to what we've had going. He's a major player, and our ranking vet. If he were just another Sergio ro something you'd shrug, bench if he wanted to play weenieball, and move on. That's not realistically an option here. And even it were, it would STILL stink up your feel good season by becoming a major side issue constantly under discussion, eventually leading to inevitable agent/trade chatter etc.

Make no doubt about it, we may try to ease him in for a few games, but once he's up and running Kevin is going to inevitably eat 3/4 of those minutes and also drain away more shots than the guys playing those minutes in his absence have been taking.
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I really hate agreeing with you all the time, but my gut tells me that your right. My heart hopes that your wrong, because I think this experiment will continue for the rest of the season, once it begins. Westphal has at times been almost magical with his strange lineups and substitutions. Lets hope that he has a couple of rabbits left in his hat.
 
bajaden said:
I really hate agreeing with you all the time, but my gut tells me that your right. My heart hopes that your wrong, because I think this experiment will continue for the rest of the season, once it begins. Westphal has at times been almost magical with his strange lineups and substitutions. Lets hope that he has a couple of rabbits left in his hat.
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I say PW should try having 6 players on the court. That should do the trick :rolleyes:
 
bajaden said:
I really hate agreeing with you all the time, but my gut tells me that your right. My heart hopes that your wrong, because I think this experiment will continue for the rest of the season, once it begins. Westphal has at times been almost magical with his strange lineups and substitutions. Lets hope that he has a couple of rabbits left in his hat.
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While this thread is quite interesting, and as a new fan I have learned quite a bit from it, I tend to think it is somewhat pointless, as PW and GP have already proven to us numerous times this season that they are way smarter than all of us and I am sure they will know exactly what to do. If PW thinks that keeping KM would be more beneficial to the team, he will do it. If he thinks the team would profit more from trading him, that will probably be his move. I'm pretty sure he has taken all the factors into consideration and has a pretty good idea of what he intends to do.
 
Bricklayer said:
That's just not the way it works in the NBA. And certainly not at $11mil a year after being touted as some sort of bargain basement face of the franchise the last few years. He's not going to be a first among equals. He's just going to be a first. Everyone else will have to adapt around the edges. Its why he's such a threat to what we've had going. He's a major player, and our ranking vet. If he were just another Sergio ro something you'd shrug, bench if he wanted to play weenieball, and move on. That's not realistically an option here. And even it were, it would STILL stink up your feel good season by becoming a major side issue constantly under discussion, eventually leading to inevitable agent/trade chatter etc.

Make no doubt about it, we may try to ease him in for a few games, but once he's up and running Kevin is going to inevitably eat 3/4 of those minutes and also drain away more shots than the guys playing those minutes in his absence have been taking.
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I disagree. PW is a winner and it won't happen on his watch. 11mill player is still not a 15-20 mill franchise player. Everyone is talking about the rookies as the ones who turned around the franchise. KM will have to find a way to fit in. He will surely get some respect but he will have to prove he can do more than just help them turn the near misses against quality teams to double digit losses.Right now it is about 2 things:

1.The development of Tyreke, Omri , JT(untouchables) and Donte (perhaps also untouchable).
2. Getting the big we need.

KM can fit in 1 or he can fit in 2. He will have his audition for either part after his return. A trade may not happen this season but it will happen sooner or later.BTW, anyone other than the guys in 1 can be a part of 2.
 
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