Domas is who they thought he was.

[Tetsujin]

If Sabonis is your second piece and your first piece isn’t Luka, prime lebron , jordan than have fun as play in contenders. Oh wait

Someone make sure Scott Perry and Pelinka weren’t old racquetball buddies at Kobe’s basketball camp or something!

 

[dude12]

You don't just remove Domas, you get a haul for him. And we'll see because Domas might be removing himself. Saying the right things and doing them aren't always the same. If Perry basically runs it back, that perfectly acceptable IMO. Unlike the 2nd Beam team year, the contracts are already signed so a run it back doesn't do much if it lands flat. Theoretically all the high paid pieces should maintain their value up until the deadline.

This. I’m not advocating just dumping him for nothing. I would look at trading him for a reconfiguration. I’d rather have a guy or guys who can help this team win in the playoffs. The sample size on Domas not being able to get this team deeper into the playoffs grows every year.

 

[Joshyjosh31]

Kings will be making a mistake by not trading Sabonis before the season but since Vivek will have none of it, the organization will continue to peak as a play-in team. Having the play-in gives owners like Vivek the false hope that if they just get a chance to get in, they can advance to the Postseason and eventually (like the Heat) advance further

I honestly think that’s ownerships goal play in then playoffs they’re not interested in building a legit playoff team

 

[Warhawk]

This. I’m not advocating just dumping him for nothing. I would look at trading him for a reconfiguration. I’d rather have a guy or guys who can help this team win in the playoffs. The sample size on Domas not being able to get this team deeper into the playoffs grows every year.

Well, by that criteria Dominique Wilkins (second round) is only marginally better than Sabonis (seven games first round). Domas is apparently on par with Tracy McGrady, though.

 

[Padrino]

We've done a better job building around Domas than we have any player since Webber. Three straight 40-win seasons with Domas. Zero other 40-win seasons in Sacramento outside of the Webber years (technically Adelman years, as Webb missed the very end). Never got there with Cousins, never got there with Fox before Domas was in the mix. Is there another player even worth thinking about?

And if we dump Domas, now who are we building around? Zach? Nope, he's gotta be the #2 guy even if he's the top scoring option. You NEED a better player on the floor than Zach to get anywhere. Keegan? I love Keegan, but he's no superstar. #4 guy on a contender, could become #3 if his rookie year shot comes back. Truly useful defensive player. DeRozan? Nope, #2, and too old. Monk? Keon? Carter? Nope, nope, nope.

We've got a lot of useful rotation players, as I think we all know and can be seen above. But we need that #1 guy, and unless we win the Cooper Flagg sweepstakes, I don't know where that guy is coming from. So it's Domas, who isn't the classic #1, but he gives us the ability to run the team through the high post (sound familiar?) and he rebounds like a star. Can score in the post, can score on the perimeter, basically runs the team's sets play in and play out on both sides of the ball. It's Domas, or it's give completely up and beg the lotto balls to be kinder to us than they usually have been. And if we take that second route, all of those nice rotation players are going to end up finding their way out of Sacramento and we'll have to build that rotation back up too.

I see three possibilities:

1) Keep Domas, rejigger by trading DDR and possibly Monk to get better roster balance, hand Zach the unquestioned #2 spot on the team as the primary scorer, and hope the Zach-Domas chemistry develops (I think it was said they played 15 games together?)

2) Hit the Flagg. That's a rebuild in the bounce of a ping-pong ball. But don't count on it.

3) Get rid of Domas and tank for at least 5 years. It'll be 5 years before we see .500 again, at the minimum.

Take your pick, I mean, except #2. Can't actually pick that, but we will have a less than 1% chance to get it anyway.

I've gotta agree with Capt on this. Those who want to trade Domas must be imagining a world in which the Kings are engaged in a full-scale rebuild, because that's what you need to be signing up for if you trade him. And if so, I'd be on board. You hit the reset button, start stocking up on first rounders, and hope for ping pong luck across the next few seasons. However, if you think you're signing up for something else in a Domas trade, it's an absolute fool's errand, and I'd be very worried that Vivek doesn't understand that, even if Scott Perry does. Trading Domas for some combination of another team's second- and third-tier spare parts in pursuit of a win-now strategy while elevating Zach LaVine as "the guy" just consigns you to No Man's Land and 35 wins every season. You only trade Sabonis when you're ready to rebuild. Not before.

 

[pdxKingsFan]

I don't believe our ownership would ever sign up for a full scale rebuild, if he would, I hope it is the 26-27 season and they cut STH a break.

While I don't really agree with Vivek I do agree with his sentiment he owes it to the paying fans to try to build a winner. Zach and Domas didn't ever really get a good feel and mid-February isn't exactly the time to instill an entirely new offense. I'm willing to give it until next February before we blow it all up, assuming Deebo is gone and we get a real point guard, and we figure out a real starting forward to pair with Keegan and Domas. It would help if they could cover an interior big man.

 

[dude12]

Well, by that criteria Dominique Wilkins (second round) is only marginally better than Sabonis (seven games first round). Domas is apparently on par with Tracy McGrady, though.

Could care less about any other player. I’m watching Domas in the play in and playoffs. It’s where it counts. He Is absolutely not untouchable.

 

[Mr. S£im Citrus]

He's talking Cousins. He's saying Cousins was better than Sabonis. And Cousins was the best player since Webber.

Reading is fundamental.

Thanks for clarifying. For whatever reason I wasn’t interpreting that way, but now I see it.

And I don’t disagree with him. Cousins in his prime was a superior player, personality flaws and all.

If we had a playoff caliber team around Boogie in those days, we’d have seen it at a different level.

As far as guys who've played for the Kings since the Webber trade (including players who were still on the Kings when the trade happened), I'll take Prime!Artest over a healthy DeMarcus Cousins, and nobody else.

 

[gunks]

As far as guys who've played for the Kings since the Webber trade (including players who were still on the Kings when the trade happened), I'll take Prime!Artest over a healthy DeMarcus Cousins, and nobody else.

Man, that's a tough one. I'll agree with you on "nobody else", but I feel like it's a toss up between MWP and Boogie. Both flawed players who could "Lock in" and have a tremendous impact on a game.

I'd take them both over Domas though. It's a shame we never got to see prime Cousins in the playoffs for us, because I think it's a fairly safe bet that he isn't letting some journeyman C punk him like Domas always does in the post season.

 

[SacTownKid]

Well, by that criteria Dominique Wilkins (second round) is only marginally better than Sabonis (seven games first round). Domas is apparently on par with Tracy McGrady, though.

True, but the bigger issue is that players like TMac at least carried teams when the lights shined on him. So far in the big games Domas has played he's become less. Maybe that's not just because of him per se but it's the only evidence to go on. Wilkins was a beast in the big moments. He could only do so much because he just didn't have the talent to beat the you know who's at the time. Domas as of yet has almost been a detriment at times. That could change but it's the only thing to go on and something that was known prior to even being traded to Sac.

 

[Padrino]

Could care less about any other player. I’m watching Domas in the play in and playoffs. It’s where it counts. He Is absolutely not untouchable.

Sure, he's not untouchable in the same way that a first-tier superstar is, but what do you imagine you're getting for Sabonis via trade? Young player(s) and pick(s) would be the package I would want, but is Scott Perry making such a trade knowing that Vivek still wants to win now? Probably not. So what's the pivot? What "win now" player(s) could the Kings conceivably get in return for Domas that would represent an upgrade to a team that would be elevating Zach LaVine as their #1 guy? You're not getting a 1A or 1B in a trade for Domas, and a team with LaVine as its best player is likely winning fewer games on the other side of any Sabonis trade. You trade Domas when you're ready to commit to a rebuild. Doing so before that is just going to result in a bunch of wheel-spinning.

 

[Merdiesel]

He needs an athletic banger next to him. Not a finesse jump shooting big.

 

[SacTownKid]

He needs an athletic banger next to him. Not a finesse jump shooting big.

Good, this is a huge summer for Isaac Jones then because that player is already here.

 

[Kingz19]

I really don’t think building around Domas or having him as a core piece is all that complex. Just that the Kings have clearly done it wrong.

I said after the first game we got him. Shooters and athletes. Kings made a few initially successful moves that covered the shooting requirement but never came to the realization that the team needed length, size and athleticism.

Indiana on the other hand. Built around Tyrese as the Kings should’ve built around Domas. They have more athletic wings than they can play that can all shoot and play defense. Kings just kept looking to make a splash with another name player regardless of need or fit.

Tyrese had 10 points(3-13fg) and 12 assists in game 1 today. If his team was an undersized and unathletic mismatch of talent like Domas has on the Kings, he would be getting dragged by Kings fans for such an understated performance. They probably wouldn’t have won 49 games but they can disrupt and overwhelm teams with speed, length, and shooting.

I know there must always be a scapegoat but Domas is the least of the teams problems.

I can see Perry moving in a direction of Domas at PF though and finding a more athletic rim protecting center to play alongside him. I’d even remove the three point requirement as Domas can let it fly more. That’s a more realistic and doable option than finding the more rare switchable and rim protecting center that also hits a bunch of wide open threes. You can count those guys on one hand.

hell, I’d be cool with making a move for somebody like Claxton, or Wendell Carter. Guys that can possibly be attained while being solid fits and needs.

but they can also keep Domas at center and actually try to build the team correctly. It doesn’t need to take 5 years. Just re-envisioning the team as it should’ve been seen 3 years ago.

It didn’t need a “big 3” or tons of iso scorers. It needed balance and to be dynamic. Even bad teams like Brooklyn have more athletic wings than they can play and would be good on the Kings. Jake LaRavia was the Kings most serious attempt at addressing the need in 3 years. And he wasn’t especially long nor athletic. Just a smart player who hustles.

McNair/and or Vivek(depending on who you believe) were trash the last two seasons.

 

[dude12]

Sure, he's not untouchable in the same way that a first-tier superstar is, but what do you imagine you're getting for Sabonis via trade? Young player(s) and pick(s) would be the package I would want, but is Scott Perry making such a trade knowing that Vivek still wants to win now? Probably not. So what's the pivot? What "win now" player(s) could the Kings conceivably get in return for Domas that would represent an upgrade to a team that would be elevating Zach LaVine as their #1 guy? You're not getting a 1A or 1B in a trade for Domas, and a team with LaVine as its best player is likely winning fewer games on the other side of any Sabonis trade. You trade Domas when you're ready to commit to a rebuild. Doing so before that is just going to result in a bunch of wheel-spinning.

Obviously I couldn’t tell you who he could be traded for. But if we aren’t getting a 1A or 1B for Domas, then that means we got a guy making a boatload of money who isn’t either. To me after 3 years, the Ability to build a successful playoff team around Domas isn’t there or hasn’t been there. Maybe Scott Perry can come up with something.

 

[Padrino]

Obviously I couldn’t tell you who he could be traded for. But if we aren’t getting a 1A or 1B for Domas, then that means we got a guy making a boatload of money who isn’t either. To me after 3 years, the Ability to build a successful playoff team around Domas isn’t there or hasn’t been there. Maybe Scott Perry can come up with something.

That's not really how it works in the NBA. You don't always get a 1A or 1B back when you trade your best player. Mostly, though, my point was that Domas is worth more to the Kings today than he will be to another team tomorrow. Unless the franchise is willing to tear things down to the studs and rebuild, I don't think there's a deal out there for Domas that makes the team better. And the Kings absolutely should not be in the business of making moves for the sake of making moves. Unless Domantas demands a trade, it would be unwise to ship him out for anything less than a stellar rebuilding package.

The Kings have finished with 40+ wins the last three seasons, and were in the playoffs hunt each time. I think that limited recent success, though hardly lofty and not up to the expectations of most, has blinded fans a bit to how bad things can get back in No Man's Land. I, for one, have no desire to see this franchise return to the days of being bad enough that the playoffs are not a possibility, but good enough that they're never in position for a top-3 pick.

In pursuit of avoiding No Man's Land, there are two realistic options moving forward to put the team in a better position than they were at season's end:

1) Trade DeMar, and perhaps Malik, while seeking defense, playmaking, and length. Prioritize fixing the guard rotation, and make sure you're not just bringing back more ball dominant players who will grind the offense to a halt. This should help rebalance the roster and keep the Kings competitive in the near term, though they'll unlikely amount to more than a second-round playoff exit. Still, it's something to root for, especially if the ball is moving again, shots are falling, and league-average defense is being played.

2) Trade everybody not named Keegan Murray, Devin Carter, and Keon Ellis, make sure to stock your draft cupboard and pick up some young players with potential along the way, and let those three guys left behind become the "vets" of a true rebuild while the franchise bottoms out in search of top-tier talent in the draft. There will be lots of pain in the near term, but there will be the hope of success in the future, provided Scott Perry and his front office staff are strong talent evaluators.

Personally, I prefer the second option, but Vivek doesn't appear to be there yet, and I'm not sure he will be anytime soon. So option 1 it is, given that trading Domas for "win now" pieces is to settle into a No Man's Land that will be difficult for the Kings to extricate themselves from.

Mod note - I replaced an obvious no-no word. Please don't try to bypass the profanity filters, as much as I agree with the sentiment.

 

[Warhawk]

Could care less about any other player. I’m watching Domas in the play in and playoffs. It’s where it counts. He Is absolutely not untouchable.

Nobody said he's untouchable. But be VERY careful with the assumption you can get something better in trade or in the draft.

 

[dude12]

Nobody said he's untouchable. But be VERY careful with the assumption you can get something better in trade or in the draft.

No one is assuming anything. If there is no deal in place, you don’t make a deal……BUT, Kat was traded for Randle and Divencenzo. Kings can look for something similar. Personally, wouldn’t mind a reshuffling in which we can actually get a guy who can protect the interior. How long has this team tried to make the offense first approach work?

 

[Padrino]

No one is assuming anything. If there is no deal in place, you don’t make a deal……BUT, Kat was traded for Randle and Divencenzo. Kings can look for something similar. Personally, wouldn’t mind a reshuffling in which we can actually get a guy who can protect the interior. How long has this team tried to make the offense first approach work?

Um... you're kind of making our point for us. Minnesota traded KAT for a lesser package, and finished 7 games worse this season than last season as a result of that trade. The move has largely been panned as a talent bleed. They're still a strong team, and it helps when you have a young guard with superstar potential in Ant Edwards and a DPOY in Rudy Gobert monitoring action at the rim. Conversely, if the Kings were able to trade Domas for the equivalent of Randle + Divencenzo, where the hell are they? Certainly not better off. Again, that's a 35-win team at best.

 

[NewArena]

Man Domas was better than ever on both ends before the injuries and season got weird. That perimeter defense especially - i won’t accept this slander. He reverted back to year 1 Domas toward the end of the season and couldn’t jump the same but he looked exhausted and not quite right if you ask me. He isn’t some defensive juggernaut but the national media doesn’t know **** about him

 

[SacTownKid]

Um... you're kind of making our point for us. Minnesota traded KAT for a lesser package, and finished 7 games worse this season than last season as a result of that trade. The move has largely been panned as a talent bleed. They're still a strong team, and it helps when you have a young guard with superstar potential in Ant Edwards and a DPOY in Rudy Gobert monitoring action at the rim. Conversely, if the Kings were able to trade Domas for the equivalent of Randle + Divencenzo, where the hell are they? Certainly not better off. Again, that's a 35-win team at best.

Yeah, in the trade the Wolves were actually just handing the reins over to a superstar they already had in Anthony Edwards. The Kings don't have that right now. If they trade Domas and want to win, at the very least it has to be for a player that brings defense and comes with some level of youth/draft assets. The Fox trade wasn't great, but it was the right idea. Spread the chips around the table a little. Don't play one number.

 

[dude12]

Um... you're kind of making our point for us. Minnesota traded KAT for a lesser package, and finished 7 games worse this season than last season as a result of that trade. The move has largely been panned as a talent bleed. They're still a strong team, and it helps when you have a young guard with superstar potential in Ant Edwards and a DPOY in Rudy Gobert monitoring action at the rim. Conversely, if the Kings were able to trade Domas for the equivalent of Randle + Divencenzo, where the hell are they? Certainly not better off. Again, that's a 35-win team at best.

Good call. Kings should keep Domas and get eliminated in the play in again.

 

[SacTownKid]

Good call. Kings should keep Domas and get eliminated in the play in again.

As long as the Kings don't go out and burn the future for a Trae, Ja, etc. to fill this mysterious "PG" void one more go around that horn ain't the worst possibility. The issue is Domas is now commenting on team needs. i.e. let Domas now become the head chair a la Fox and decide who plays next to him. Domas is an all star level big, but he still isn't that dude. Fox had this team flushing picks for meh wings like Cam and Collins with his suggestions. Would they have helped? Yes, are they the difference? No, not at all. If Domas wants to stay he needs be patient and let this team develop those pieces not overpay on corner cutting. Sorry Domas, the organization needs to think of only itself now. It's not like the Kings didn't try and remain compeitive with the Fox trade. Imagine if the Kings brought in young pieces? Domas and DeMar would have been really distraught. lol.

 

[Bosnian Diehard]

This is what happens when you have an incredibly unbalanced roster. Everyone looks worse off and now we have people thinking a back to back All NBA player is someone who can’t be a top 2/3 guy on a good team. How silly. Yeah, when Sabonis’ supporting cast is ****ing 36-year-old DeMar DeRozan and Zach LaVine, it’s gonna look ugly.

If we pair him with an All-Star teammate who is a go-to scorer and surround them with guys like Keegan, Keon and Devin, we will be a Playoff team. Up to the front office to be competent at their jobs.

 

[gunks]

Domas without Deebo ISOing up the offense could revert to his "poor man's Joker" form as our primary playmaker as well.

I think shipping Deebo out needs to be priority number one this summer. We can trade Domas mid year if a miracle happens and Vivek signs off on a rebuild, trying to trade him this summer would be selling low after that pathetic showing against the Mavs, but I'm sure he'll be back to his ~18/13/6 self next season.

?PG?(Carter?)/Zach/Keegan/?PF?/Domas has potential if Perry can fill out the roster. Obviously not a contender but it could at least be interesting.

 

[SacTownKid]

This is what happens when you have an incredibly unbalanced roster. Everyone looks worse off and now we have people thinking a back to back All NBA player is someone who can’t be a top 2/3 guy on a good team. How silly. Yeah, when Sabonis’ supporting cast is ****ing 36-year-old DeMar DeRozan and Zach LaVine, it’s gonna look ugly.

If we pair him with an All-Star teammate who is a go-to scorer and surround them with guys like Keegan, Keon and Devin, we will be a Playoff team. Up to the front office to be competent at their jobs.

The Kings had that with Fox didn't they? Zach ain't too far from that conversation either. If they run it back with Keegan, Keon, and Devin being those guys then they should be a playoff team with chemistry already. Or close enough to where you know you're not far. Let it ride if they want but bringing in that All star is going to cost picks, a lot of them, and there is nothing at this point to say that's remotely worth it if the Kings have any sense. If they believe, run it back, develop and see where the team is at at the deadline.

 

[SacTownKid]

Domas without Deebo ISOing up the offense could revert to his "poor man's Joker" form as our primary playmaker as well.

I think shipping Deebo out needs to be priority number one this season. We can trade Domas mid year if we're still looking rough with him, trying to trade him this summer would be selling low.

Deebo does look like the scorers we see in the playoffs and it always comes down to who can feed themselves, but yeah, he's at the end of his career and can't wait for the Kings to do what they need to even if they don't reset. If he were 32-33 maybe they can wait a little bit. Zach and DeMar don't work. Period. It was official in Chicago it's done and dusted in Sacramento. Zach defers to DeMar too often and Zach needs to be the man if he's here and has any value to the organization. If Zach and Domas are to remain the only roster than makes sense is great defense out of every single other position around them. The league has shifted back to 2 main options and everyone else has to defend. The days of rolling out 5 scorers/shooters are over. It started last postseason, just one game in it looks to be settled conversation. Now, you still need shooting but you see almost no teams with a Malik Monk at any position as a starter. That said there's really no Domas either but still. One mistake DC might have made is not playing as much Devin, Keon, LaVine, Keegan, and Domas together as possible. It's small at the 2/3 but that was by far the most complete combination on both ends.

 

[notoriousBEN3]

Deebo does look like the scorers we see in the playoffs and it always comes down to who can feed themselves, but yeah, he's at the end of his career and can't wait for the Kings to do what they need to even if they don't reset. If he were 32-33 maybe they can wait a little bit. Zach and DeMar don't work. Period. It was official in Chicago it's done and dusted in Sacramento. Zach defers to DeMar too often and Zach needs to be the man if he's here and has any value to the organization. If Zach and Domas are to remain the only roster than makes sense is great defense out of every single other position around them. The league has shifted back to 2 main options and everyone else has to defend. The days of rolling out 5 scorers/shooters are over. It started last postseason, just one game in it looks to be settled conversation. Now, you still need shooting but you see almost no teams with a Malik Monk at any position as a starter. That said there's really no Domas either but still. One mistake DC might have made is not playing as much Devin, Keon, LaVine, Keegan, and Domas together as possible. It's small at the 2/3 but that was by far the most complete combination on both ends.

Well said. I don’t hate the idea of Zach + Domas + defenders next season, especially with a true PG. Zach and Domas are not necessarily superstar players, but I think they’re both excellent guys who have the potential to be really good if the pieces around them fit properly. We’ll see what Perry thinks.

 

[SacTownKid]

Just doing a little number searching. Now, already on record of lineup stats below 5 man as being basically bunk, but... just for fun. The 2 man lineups stats are interesting over the last 10 games, or not. The best net rating 2 man lineup? Shocker! Devin Carter and Keon Ellis. It's obviously somewhat low minutes but a +50 net rating. Gee, does defense matter? Guess so. The even more interesting thing? Look at the top 2 man combos. Notice a name that sticks out in most of them? This would explain Devins huge impact towards the end of the season as the Kings were like +70 points better with him on the floor at one point. He was also again, the only player to play in the heat of game minutes in the play in to have a + in +/-.

https://www.nba.com/stats/lineups/advanced?GroupQuantity=2&LastNGames=10&SeasonType=Regular Season&TeamID=1610612758&dir=D&slug=advanced&sort=NET_RATING

Also, just scanning through the last 15 games, by far the best net rating guard pairing with Domas was... Devin Carter.

 

[Padrino]

Good call. Kings should keep Domas and get eliminated in the play in again.

I've presented two clear strategies that attempt to avoid this fate. You're out here saying the Kings should bring in Randle-level talent in exchange for their offensive hub, league-leading rebounder, and two-time All-NBA selection. If you think that's going to result in anything other than an 11th or 12th place finish in the Western Conference, then all power to you. I don't imagine you'll find many who agree, and hopefully nobody in the Kings' front office thinks similarly.