Does MB III make WCS expendable?

Does MB III make WCS expendable?


  • Total voters
    30
  • Poll closed .
#1
Its a contract year for WCS, and I would say he is playing great. With that said, it seems to me that MB III brings most of what WCS does and is superior on the offensive side of the ball. Would it behoove us to pass on WCS in favor of featuring Bagley as a main piece? Also, this would give us more money to resign our other promising young guys and/or add some more FA's/nifty Serbians.
 
#3
no way. Bagley doesn't bring the defensive presence Willie does. I would argue that Willie is a top 10 defensive big man. His entire prototype is perfect for the switching game.

I actually think Bagley-WCS can coexist in the future as long as Bagley can continue to improve his 3pt shooting. I think they would be a very promising front-court together as each offers something different.
 
#4
i think they complement each other. In any case WCS is entering the peak of his powers as Bagley has just started his journey. In time perhaps but WCS is exactly what we want from our starting 5, the key is him continuing at this level for the next contract whilst Bagley matures then potentially you might see a changing of the leader of our frontcourt from WCS to Bagley in 3 seasons or so
 

Kingster

Hall of Famer
#7
Maybe WCS is for the long term. Maybe not. But nobody at this point wants to lose him for minimal value. Bagley has all the talent to eventually take over the center position, but he might take over the PF position, or even the SF position in "position-less basketball." Did anyone see that Euro-step on the fast break last night? That's not something you see from centers or power forwards. That's a SF move, there, folks. I'm just waiting to see the cross-over dribble next.:)
 

VF21

#KingsFansForever
Staff member
#8
Maybe WCS is for the long term. Maybe not. But nobody at this point wants to lose him for minimal value. Bagley has all the talent to eventually take over the center position, but he might take over the PF position, or even the SF position in "position-less basketball." Did anyone see that Euro-step on the fast break last night? That's not something you see from centers or power forwards. That's a SF move, there, folks. I'm just waiting to see the cross-over dribble next.:)
As Vlade's vision becomes visible to all us mere mortals, it's even more beautiful than I imagined. :)
 

bajaden

Hall of Famer
#9
Maybe WCS is for the long term. Maybe not. But nobody at this point wants to lose him for minimal value. Bagley has all the talent to eventually take over the center position, but he might take over the PF position, or even the SF position in "position-less basketball." Did anyone see that Euro-step on the fast break last night? That's not something you see from centers or power forwards. That's a SF move, there, folks. I'm just waiting to see the cross-over dribble next.:)
I have no idea whether the Kings are serious about Marvin eventually playing the SF position, but if they are, the one area he really would need to improve is his ballhandling. I think his shot is coming around, and he seems quite capable of defending the SF position. So if he can take his ballhandling up a couple of notches, I don't see why he couldn't play there, at least part of the time. A future front line of Willie, Giles, and Bagley could be quite formidable.
 

Kingster

Hall of Famer
#10
I have no idea whether the Kings are serious about Marvin eventually playing the SF position, but if they are, the one area he really would need to improve is his ballhandling. I think his shot is coming around, and he seems quite capable of defending the SF position. So if he can take his ballhandling up a couple of notches, I don't see why he couldn't play there, at least part of the time. A future front line of Willie, Giles, and Bagley could be quite formidable.
The word is that the Kings' coaching staff is going to work on Bagley's ball handling very diligently over the next two years so that he can play that SF position. We'll see. Given where Hield started in his ball handling and where he is now, I'm fairly optimistic about Bagley's chances for improvement over the next couple of years.
 
#12
The word is that the Kings' coaching staff is going to work on Bagley's ball handling very diligently over the next two years so that he can play that SF position. We'll see. Given where Hield started in his ball handling and where he is now, I'm fairly optimistic about Bagley's chances for improvement over the next couple of years.
Where did you get that from?
 
#13
The word is that the Kings' coaching staff is going to work on Bagley's ball handling very diligently over the next two years so that he can play that SF position. We'll see. Given where Hield started in his ball handling and where he is now, I'm fairly optimistic about Bagley's chances for improvement over the next couple of years.
Maybe they think he has Giannis potential?
 

Kingster

Hall of Famer
#15
Maybe they think he has Giannis potential?
There is the innuendo that some think he can become a great SF in the GK vein. Whether he can eventually get there or not, it makes total sense that the Kings' coaching staff should diligently work on his ball handling to unleash his greatest potential, whatever that might be.
 

bajaden

Hall of Famer
#16
There is the innuendo that some think he can become a great SF in the GK vein. Whether he can eventually get there or not, it makes total sense that the Kings' coaching staff should diligently work on his ball handling to unleash his greatest potential, whatever that might be.
If, and it's a big if, Marvin can eventually play the SF position, it would solve a multitude of problems for the Kings. For those that are skeptical about Bagley ever reaching the same potential as Antetokounmpo, maybe you've forgotten what he looked like when he arrived in the NBA. He was a very raw player who needed refinement throughout his game. And as I compare his and Bagley's first year stats, it's not really a fair comparison because number one, it's a very small sampling in Bagley's case, and number two, Bagley is much further along in skill level than Antetokounmpo was.

Antetokounmpo: 24:38 mpg - 6.8 ppg - 41.4% fgp - 34.7% 3pp - 4.4 rpg - 1.9 apg - 0.8 bpg

Bagley: 23:19 mpg - 13.0 ppg - 55.4% fgp - 55.6% 3pp - 6.9 rpg - 1.1 apg - 1.1 bpg

It's wasn't until Antetokounmpo's third year that he started to resemble the player he is today. His 2nd year was very similar to what Bagley is putting up so far this season. And speaking of his season so far, I think it's fair to say that his 3 pt percentage will probably decline quite a bit. But it's possible that some of his other numbers will go up a bit. Soooo, it's not that big a stretch to believe that Bagley might be able to play the SF position down the road.

By the way, if you want a challenge, try typing Antetokounmpo three times real fast without making a mistake.
 
#17
When I saw the original question, I thought about staggered career arcs. Koufos was a starting center on a 50-win team who's now on the far side of his career arc. Willie looks like he's just coming into his prime after 3 years, and Bagley just got here. If this works out, it can give us a solid big guy for a long time.

I think Bagley working on his small forward skills is something that will add to his versitality, because he looks like he could be Giannis-like in a couple of years. Down the road, he could play SF against certain lineups (a 3 7-footer front line anyone?) but he could also play center in a smallball lineup.
 

Kingster

Hall of Famer
#18
If, and it's a big if, Marvin can eventually play the SF position, it would solve a multitude of problems for the Kings. For those that are skeptical about Bagley ever reaching the same potential as Antetokounmpo, maybe you've forgotten what he looked like when he arrived in the NBA. He was a very raw player who needed refinement throughout his game. And as I compare his and Bagley's first year stats, it's not really a fair comparison because number one, it's a very small sampling in Bagley's case, and number two, Bagley is much further along in skill level than Antetokounmpo was.

Antetokounmpo: 24:38 mpg - 6.8 ppg - 41.4% fgp - 34.7% 3pp - 4.4 rpg - 1.9 apg - 0.8 bpg

Bagley: 23:19 mpg - 13.0 ppg - 55.4% fgp - 55.6% 3pp - 6.9 rpg - 1.1 apg - 1.1 bpg

It's wasn't until Antetokounmpo's third year that he started to resemble the player he is today. His 2nd year was very similar to what Bagley is putting up so far this season. And speaking of his season so far, I think it's fair to say that his 3 pt percentage will probably decline quite a bit. But it's possible that some of his other numbers will go up a bit. Soooo, it's not that big a stretch to believe that Bagley might be able to play the SF position down the road.

By the way, if you want a challenge, try typing Antetokounmpo three times real fast without making a mistake.
If you want a challenge, try saying his name aloud three times fast. It's better than saying "fruit fly farm" three times fast. :)

The way Kings' management envisions Bagley a couple of years down the line could the affect the way they evaluate other players on this team. If they really do envision him as a SF-PF then you would think they would make different personnel decisions than if they think he's a C-PF. If Fox and Bagley are the key building blocks, then everybody they get (or unload) should complement them one way or another.
 
Last edited:
#19
I cant see him playing SF all the time. But maybe in short bursts like Lamar Odom. Hes got that potential.
If his three becomes consistent and he improves his passing and handles, he'll be a super tough cover.
 
#20
no way. Bagley doesn't bring the defensive presence Willie does. I would argue that Willie is a top 10 defensive big man. His entire prototype is perfect for the switching game.

I actually think Bagley-WCS can coexist in the future as long as Bagley can continue to improve his 3pt shooting. I think they would be a very promising front-court together as each offers something different.
If Willies is a top 10 defensive big man, why does he fail to rotate from the weak side over and over? He watches people drive past him all the time. He rarely gets blocks for a 7 footer that is quick off his feet. You will never see him take a charge or make a hard foul even. He reminds me of my niece (who had college scholarship offers) except that he is not as aggressive on defense.
 
#21
It’s really simple for me.

Out of Bjelica, Cauley-Stein, Giles, and Bagley, who would you consider a building block? To me, that’s very easily Giles and Bagley considering their age, contract, potential, and skill set.

From there, you have to ask yourself if these two can play minutes together. If the answer is no, you’ll need to move one now/down the road. If the answer is yes, the next question is what type of 3rd big would complement these two and make for a great 3 big rotation.

I think that tandem lacks:
  • Pure shooting
  • Size
  • Strength
To me, that 3rd big would need to have these attributes and should be someone who can be signed/had for cheap so we can save our cap on other positions (e.g., SF). These guys would seem to work:
  1. Kelly Olynyk
  2. Frank Kaminsky
  3. Channing Frye
  4. Noah Vonleh
  5. Brook Lopez
Vonleh is shorter than a lot of these guys (6’8” without shoes) but his vertical athleticism (31” standing vertical and 37” max vertical), strength (250 lbs and 7.3% body fat), length (7’4.25” wingspan and 9’0” standing reach), and his rebounding ability (11.7 rebounds per 36 min)

Bjelicia fills this role very well minus the ideal size/strength. Labissiere is a dark horse to fill this type of role but I’m not holding my breath. I guess what I’m saying is that we may already have the making of a very good, complementary 3 big rotation.

Bagley and Giles do make WCS expendable because he’s not the long term, ideal fit with those two. If Bagley and Giles are going to be big pieces for our future, the fit next to them matters. Cauley-Stein (while at least a productive player) isn’t the ideal fit.
 
Last edited:

VF21

#KingsFansForever
Staff member
#22
If Willies is a top 10 defensive big man, why does he fail to rotate from the weak side over and over? He watches people drive past him all the time. He rarely gets blocks for a 7 footer that is quick off his feet. You will never see him take a charge or make a hard foul even. He reminds me of my niece (who had college scholarship offers) except that he is not as aggressive on defense.
You're responding to a comment made TWO MONTHS ago. Why?

If anything, an argument on Jan. 12, 2019 might be made that GILES could make WCS expendable.
 
#25
My question is: what kind of contract does Willie stand to command? If last year is any indicator, it'd probably be something like Jusuf Nurkic's 4 year 53 Million?
 
#26
I think we've seen enough Willie and Bagley on the court this year to know that they aren't a great combo together on the floor. The spacing disappears with them out there at the same time. Due to that, even though I think Willie really is a good player all around and I think the Kings would miss that size and athletic ability, you have to move on. Keeping him if you can't play him with one of your top prospects doesn't make much sense. To the right team Willie is easily worth 100 million.
 
#27
I think we've seen enough Willie and Bagley on the court this year to know that they aren't a great combo together on the floor. The spacing disappears with them out there at the same time. Due to that, even though I think Willie really is a good player all around and I think the Kings would miss that size and athletic ability, you have to move on. Keeping him if you can't play him with one of your top prospects doesn't make much sense. To the right team Willie is easily worth 100 million.
What is your precedent for the 100 million dollar contract?
 
#28
Seems that he'd more likely be between Nurkic's 4 year 53 million and Capela's 5 year 90 million. Imo he'd land much closer to Nurkic's value from last off season.

NOTE: Can someone teach me how to edit a post? I wanted to add this to my post above. Thank you!
 

VF21

#KingsFansForever
Staff member
#29
Seems that he'd more likely be between Nurkic's 4 year 53 million and Capela's 5 year 90 million. Imo he'd land much closer to Nurkic's value from last off season.

NOTE: Can someone teach me how to edit a post? I wanted to add this to my post above. Thank you!
You can edit your post with the "edit" button but not until it has cleared the mod queue. ;) Newcomers here are subject to mod approval for a period of time. Totally eliminates about 99% of the spam. You should be able to edit your post now that it has passed muster so to speak.

BTW welcome to the world of actively posting. ;)
 

VF21

#KingsFansForever
Staff member
#30
Because Willie is still the Kings' starting center.
My point was (and is) that it's a dated thread with a poll that could easily shift the other way. Digging up old threads isn't always necessary. Sometimes new threads better reflect current feelings, especially when there is a poll involved.