Do Kevin and Reke have problems??

[BMiller52]

http://www.sacbee.com/sports/story/2471558.html

There's a quote in there about how they need to work together more, and Tyreke says "it's like he's not here right now". I don't know what that means. Does it mean they have problems playing together and Kev isn't being part of the team, or he's just not all the way back yet and he's not having enough of an impact, what does he mean by that? I'm confused.

 

[matthew76]

i think he might mean that Kevin isn't completely back yet. And some of the time Kevin has seemed to disappear during the game. I think no one can accurately gauge this backcourt yet, as i think Kevin is far from 100% yet

 

[TheFifthMookie]

3 games after a long injury is hardly enough time to make a judgement on 'if it works'.

We field a team made up of rookies, and 2nd-3rd year players and people expect it to just work now. gotta give it some time.

 

[Capt. Factorial]

3 games after a long injury is hardly enough time to make a judgement on 'if it works'.

What do you mean, three games isn't enough? Zero games was enough. Most of the people who are vocal about it "not working" had made up their minds long before Kevin came back.

 

[AriesMar27]

my mind was set the minute that evans was drafted... he needs the ball in his hands for as much time as the shot clock will allow. martin doesnt need the ball for the entire shot clock but he does need it at the end of the play so that he can score. evans doesnt have a pass first or even pass second mentality. he wants to score, if he cant score, he wants free throws... if they arent going to foul and just pack the paint he will pass it to someone who isnt in position to score.

martin averaged 20ppg playing with bibby and artest, yet he cant play with evans... what does that say about evans? we had 3 players averaging 15 fga per game without any problems... but for some reason evans and martin have problems.

 

[Kingsguy881]

my mind was set the minute that evans was drafted... he needs the ball in his hands for as much time as the shot clock will allow. martin doesnt need the ball for the entire shot clock but he does need it at the end of the play so that he can score. evans doesnt have a pass first or even pass second mentality. he wants to score, if he cant score, he wants free throws... if they arent going to foul and just pack the paint he will pass it to someone who isnt in position to score.

martin averaged 20ppg playing with bibby and artest, yet he cant play with evans... what does that say about evans? we had 3 players averaging 15 fga per game without any problems... but for some reason evans and martin have problems.

This is completely foolish. Evans is a very willing passer. For you to state this just shows your blind loathesomeness of Tyreke. Grow up.

Oh yea, we all know your mind was set the minute he was drafted. And we all know nothing, not even the obvious, can change your mind once made up. Must suck to be such a close-minded individual....

Oh I noticed one other thing, your incorrect and pretty infantile point that Evans will only pass it to someone who isn't in position to score. Guess he got those 7 assists yesterday by accident hunh? He sets up people for wide open perimeter looks all day, they just don't knock them down.

Why do you hate Evans so much? How can you be a Kings fan while hating the best player on the team? Thats like being a Laker fan and hating Kobe, a Cavs fan and hating LeBron, a Heat fan and hating Wade.

 

[steelevt]

This is completely foolish. Evans is a very willing passer. For you to state this just shows your blind loathesomeness of Tyreke. Grow up.

though he may be exaggerating a bit, he's not completely wrong. i dont think evans has a pass first first mentality. as many have said he's not a "true" pg. i've seen many times when theyre on a 2 on 1 or 3 on 2 break and instead of passing to the open man, he'll take it to the rim and get fouled, or take a bad shot when someone might have an open shot. but i believe he is learning to trust his teammates and pass the ball a little more cuz ive seen some nice assists here and there. i dont think we need him to be that pass first pg, im happy with him being able to drive and finish or hit a game winning shot when we need him to, but i still have to call it like i see it.

 

[Kingsguy881]

though he may be exaggerating a bit, he's not completely wrong. i dont think evans has a pass first first mentality. as many have said he's not a "true" pg. i've seen many times when theyre on a 2 on 1 or 3 on 2 break and instead of passing to the open man, he'll take it to the rim and get fouled, or take a bad shot when someone might have an open shot. but i believe he is learning to trust his teammates and pass the ball a little more cuz ive seen some nice assists here and there. i dont think we need him to be that pass first pg, im happy with him being able to drive and finish or hit a game winning shot when we need him to, but i still have to call it like i see it.

No he is exaggerating a LOT. For him to state that Evans isn't even a pass second player is ludicrous. For him to state that Evans will only pass to players not in position to score is ridiculous. For him to have made up his mind about Evans shows he would be the same person to write off Steve Nash, Kevin Johnson, and Chauncey Billups early only to have them come back later and bite his *** off, chew it up, and spit it out.

 

[pdxKingsFan]

I don't care if he's a "true pg", the offense was running very effectively for most of the season. The biggest problem is no inside threat to throw it down to for easy points and this has killed us at the end of more than a few games. Yeah he tries to do it all himself at times because a) he's the best player on the team and b) he's a rookie.

 

[AriesMar27]

No he is exaggerating a LOT. For him to state that Evans isn't even a pass second player is ludicrous. For him to state that Evans will only pass to players not in position to score is ridiculous. For him to have made up his mind about Evans shows he would be the same person to write off Steve Nash, Kevin Johnson, and Chauncey Billups early only to have them come back later and bite his *** off, chew it up, and spit it out.

there is a huge difference between someone like nash and tyreke... no one was denying that nash is a pg and that he could pass, shoot and handle the ball with relative ease. his problem, if thats what you want to call it was that he played behind jason kidd... evans doesnt have that problem. he has a shaky jumpshot and suspect court vision... he is a great scorer and ball handler but that doesnt make him a pg. if you were to describe evans to a person that had never seen him that person would think that you were talking about a future stud sg. not a pg in any way, shape or form...

the only reason he is played at pg is because petrie is too much of a wuss to come out and say that martin is expendable. if evans were a pg he wouldnt have any issues playing with martin because martin sure as hell isnt a pg. we have 2 starting sg's on this team, one of them will have to go... sorry martin. evans can score just as much but costs less than half as much.

we should trade martin and beno to the twolves for jefferson and sessions.

 

[drboiffard]

Tyreke is improving a lot his passes. He has been playing at PG because he needs the ball in his hands, not because he is a "true" pass-first PG, I agree with that. But that doesn't matter at all: he's averaging 5 assists per game, and he is improving faster in that aspect. He has much important tools in attack right now, and passing and runing the team is one thing that doesn't come in three months.

 

[steelevt]

No he is exaggerating a LOT. For him to state that Evans isn't even a pass second player is ludicrous. For him to state that Evans will only pass to players not in position to score is ridiculous. For him to have made up his mind about Evans shows he would be the same person to write off Steve Nash, Kevin Johnson, and Chauncey Billups early only to have them come back later and bite his *** off, chew it up, and spit it out.

haha ok maybe exaggerating a lot, but the bright side is, evans is better rookie than nash and billups were when they were rookies and once he develops that jumper he will be unstoppable. but even lebron and kobe learned to trust their teammates. it seems that evans can get in the paint so easily. im waiting for the day when it all clicks and he drives and takes it in when he's open, or will kick it out to martin for a 3 or open jumper when theres a shot blocker in the middle. i think thats what everyone who's preaching patience is waiting to see.

 

[Kingsguy881]

Some people think that basketball is all about passing and scoring. So Evans can score as much as Martin, but he can also get you 2 steals and 3 blocks and yank down 5 boards and drop 6-7 dimes. That doesn't make him a pg or a sg, and it doesn't make Martin expendable. Martin needs to wake up and realize that in order to play on this team he is going to have to start playing on the defensive end, he can't just focus on offense all the time anymore. Evans and Martin don't have a problem, Martin has a problem buying into what the team was doing while he was out. Martin. Needs. To. Play. Defense. Thats it. Cut and dry. It is not an Evans/Martin thing, it's a Marting laziness thing.

 

[AriesMar27]

we all know that martin needs to play defense, the entire team needs to step it up in that department. i dont know why he is so bad, he was a good defender in his rookie season. granted he was guarding pgs but still... he was better, now he doesnt even try.

 

[pdxKingsFan]

I'm not sure Martin is lazy, he just isn't really built for it and his body may not be able to withstand it, see all his recent injury troubles. Guys with reputations for defense are also guys with reputations for playing through pain.

 

[Kingsguy881]

I'm not sure Martin is lazy, he just isn't really built for it and his body may not be able to withstand it, see all his recent injury troubles. Guys with reputations for defense are also guys with reputations for playing through pain.

He's not built all that differently from a guy named Doug Christie....

 

[pdxKingsFan]

On the surface maybe not, though a quick check of their listings shows Christie was one inch shorter and 20 lbs heavier, but that really gets to my second point about playing injured - a gimped ankle or wrist would cost Christie half a game not half a season.

 

[Oprostaj]

Guys with reputations for defense are also guys with reputations for playing through pain.

This is overrated. Some injuries just can't be played through. Martin has had an assortment of injuries, but what was he supposed to do? Play on a bum ankle? Shoot with a cast? Specific injuries render you useless. A defensive lineman can play with a broken hand = tough. basketball player cannot play with a broken hand = wuss? I can understand small injuries being annoying, but if they hinder you from helping your team, why would you play? I wouldn't want Martin at 50%.

 

[ElRey]

Anyone saw Ailene Voison's glowing article on Stephen Curry today? (nevermind that she writes for a Sacramento newspaper and we don't even play with Warriors for another full week!)

"Nelson, by the way, is among a growing list of NBA coaches who aren't convinced that Evans is a point guard, but who swear it doesn't matter. They place him in another category. They think the guy is a big-time star, love the combination of size, strength and skills, and expect Geoff Petrie and Paul Westphal to figure out where he is most effective." Ailene Voisin


Some people just can't let go of the whole "Evan's isn't a PG and I can't believe we passed over Rubio! " deal. Ailene isn't alone.

 

[ElRey]

I'll add my opinion on this whole Martin/Evans situation.


Martin doesn't fit in with this whole TEAM, period. Regardless of who the pg is. He doesn't fit in with the youthful intensity, enthusiasm, toughness and competitiveness of the team in general. He is too reserved and lacks that competitive spirit that a young teams needs in a leader. He is not a leader and I'm afraid to say not much of a competitor. He's an excellent scorer, but not a winner. He can score but doesn't seem to do what it takes to win. In order to fit in with the team, he needs to just hit his open shots, play defense, and more importantly play with intensity. Martin is very similar to Peja, the quiet 2nd or 3rd star on a team that just needs him to score, but not lead.

 

[pdxKingsFan]

This is overrated. Some injuries just can't be played through. Martin has had an assortment of injuries, but what was he supposed to do? Play on a bum ankle? Shoot with a cast? Specific injuries render you useless. A defensive lineman can play with a broken hand = tough. basketball player cannot play with a broken hand = wuss? I can understand small injuries being annoying, but if they hinder you from helping your team, why would you play? I wouldn't want Martin at 50%.

I'm not saying he should have played, I'm just saying that the guy reputations for defense play through bum ankles or with bones broken in their hands all the time. Some used that to question Kevin's heart, I'm giving him the benefit of the doubt that he was too hurt to go. But at the same time, if that's the case, maybe his body just isn't cut out to play NBA defense. It isn't meant to be a shot at Kevin or anything, just an observation.

 

[pdxKingsFan]

"Nelson, by the way, is among a growing list of NBA coaches who aren't convinced that Evans is a point guard, but who swear it doesn't matter.

I think you bolded the wrong part, I fixed it for you

 

[drboiffard]

Some people just can't let go of the whole "Evan's isn't a PG and I can't believe we passed over Rubio! " deal. Ailene isn't alone.

I don't understand why most of you always make a 1:1 relationship between discussing if Reke is or isn't a PG and the fact that the Kings didn't trade Rubio.

Maybe I'm completely alone in this one, but I think Tyreke isn't a PG and at the same time I think it has been a much better pick than Rubio hands down.

 

[Oprostaj]

I'm not saying he should have played, I'm just saying that the guy reputations for defense play through bum ankles or with bones broken in their hands all the time. Some used that to question Kevin's heart, I'm giving him the benefit of the doubt that he was too hurt to go. But at the same time, if that's the case, maybe his body just isn't cut out to play NBA defense. It isn't meant to be a shot at Kevin or anything, just an observation.

No I completely understand and it wasn't a shot at you more than a general observation. During the course of the season, all players get nagging injuries. I just think each case is specific. When one says "broken hand" on the injury report, it doesn't mean that his hand was mangled, and the tough guy put on a cast and played his heart out. Maybe it means a hairline fracture, or a break somewhere that it doesn't affect him. For example, a player twists his ankle - no big deal right? In basketball, your ankles are your life; the way you pivot, move, cut, accelarate... if it's sprained, you're not effective. Simply put, all injuries are relative, and each case is specific. Kevin has been injury prone, but I don't think it brings toughness into question. For all we know he eats nails for breakfast

 

[FakeInjury]

Technically neither is ready to run an entire offense. SO in theory, together they should be able to compete at a high level. The problems occur when tyreke finishes at the basket. Martin's ego is hurt because he was the finisher last year(even thought he rarely finished in traffic). Then Martin will take 2-3 ill advised jumpshots, and tyreke takes mental note that the veteran team leader is basically jerking off 4 no reason, and then tyreke decides he should shoot a couple three's. and before we know the kings have lost 6-7 possessions during the course of the half, due to Martin's ego.

 

[FakeInjury]

Ricky Rubio is to Colt Mccoy as Tyreke Evans is to Mark Ingram

 

[FaStRmAn]

I gotta throw a red flag on this one !!

F O U L !!

Come on people. It has been 3 freekin games!!! There is no way in the world anyone including the coaching staff of the KINGS knows what will or wont work for the Kings. To come on here with preconceived notions that A) Evans isnt a 1, B) Martin is only a 2, and C) You cant have two 2's on the floor at the same time. First of all I am not sold that Evans cant be a good point guard. A pure pass first point? Probably not. But a scoring pointguard that can penetrate and dish and generally reek havoc on defenses is certainly a possibility. As for Martin, I believe he can play at the 2 or 3. He is a little smallish for the 3 in today's NBA, but he could hold his own for the most part. You have to have his scoring ability on the floor at all costs. Even if he is or has been a defensive liability. I think Martin is one of those players that plays defense as hard as he sees everyone around him playing. In other words, if everyone is slacking on defense, then he is too. But if everyone is pulling together and playing defense as hard as they can, I think he will too.

So when you think about it, there is no good reason that Martin and Evans physically can't make it happen on the court. Chemistry is a funny thing however. I think the 2 have to WANT to make it work for starters. I haven't seen any evidence of that. Hopefully PW will start running plays that involve a 2 man game with Evans and Martin in either a pick and pop or a penetrate and kick to Martin. A wide open Martin when his game is right is a layup from 3.

And one last thing. Since when did Casspi get a swelled head? He is a ROOKIE! I dont care how well he is playing, he has to earn his time in the rotation. When Martin is on, he is a vastly better player than Casspi is so Omri needs to cool it! Those sort of outbursts on the sideline are N O T what this team needs right now. They need UNITY. Casspi will get his minutes. So will Greene. We need to start winning before we can start analyzing who gets what minutes. Crap, we are just getting healthy!!

 

[kennadog]

Martin's been out a lot time. Nearly half a season. It's to be expected that he'll need some time to get his timing and legs back, on top of getting used to players he's barely played with.

And while other players need to get used to Kevin, I think it is up to Kevin to do the majority of adjusting to his teammates. If it doesn't work, then obviously Martin will have to be traded. I think three games back is too short of a timeframe.

Of course, if trading Martin would get us a big man that could make the team significantly better, its a no-brainer.

 

[BMiller52]

Martin's been out a lot time. Nearly half a season. It's to be expected that he'll need some time to get his timing and legs back, on top of getting used to players he's barely played with.

And while other players need to get used to Kevin, I think it is up to Kevin to do the majority of adjusting to his teammates. If it doesn't work, then obviously Martin will have to be traded. I think three games back is too short of a timeframe.

Of course, if trading Martin would get us a big man that could make the team significantly better, its a no-brainer.

Yeah. I'm not saying to trade Kevin anyway. I'm just trying to see what we're supposed to make of Reke's comments to the bee, whether that's indicative of problems between them or he's saying Kevin's still not 100% or what. Because I don't fully understand his statement.

 

[AriesMar27]

I don't understand why most of you always make a 1:1 relationship between discussing if Reke is or isn't a PG and the fact that the Kings didn't trade Rubio.

Maybe I'm completely alone in this one, but I think Tyreke isn't a PG and at the same time I think it has been a much better pick than Rubio hands down.

im with you on that one... tyreke is obviously a better overall player than rubio. my only beef was that we desperately needed a pg and didnt take one. we have a team full of players that need to be set up for their offense to work. thompson and hawes would be a lot better with a pg that could set them up for easy baskets as opposed to moving out of evans' way so that he can score or dish it to them if he's doubled.

now everyone on our team still needs a pg, except for tyreke.