Defense still not addressed

Folsom Al

Folsom Al

Starter
#61
#61
Unfortunately, there are many things mentioned in this thread that I agree with.

The one thing I'd like to toss into the ring is with the addition of Wells and Rahim ... we've got players that move to the rim with intentions. They want the ball .... our rebounding will most likely improve and that'll have some effect on defense by cutting down on opponents getting 2nd and 3rd attempts after a missed shot.

I'd like to add that, don't underestimate what the addition of Wells and Rahim could do towards the attitude of TEAM DEFENSE (with the starting five). We haven't even seen them work-out, play or train together and some of you are already knocking the King's defense.

I may eat my words later ... but, for now, I'm holding on to my thoughts of "any improvement" is good !!!
 
PFFFT!!

PFFFT!!

Starter
#63
#63
I've stressed this out before, but we need to get one more guy whos going to fill the 6th man shoes, but at the PF or C position. Some guy who would start on weaker teams, but would be willing to take a bench and play 20/25 mpg. I figure our bench as a weakness. I still remember the times we would be playing our starting 5 and be up by 10 or more points, then the bench comes in and all of a sudden we are only up by 2 pts. Similar case here. The bench as I view it has no General or leader to speak of. BJ was all that.
 
Jerryaki

Jerryaki

Starter
#64
#64
Folsom Al said:
Unfortunately, there are many things mentioned in this thread that I agree with.

The one thing I'd like to toss into the ring is with the addition of Wells and Rahim ... we've got players that move to the rim with intentions. They want the ball .... our rebounding will most likely improve and that'll have some effect on defense by cutting down on opponents getting 2nd and 3rd attempts after a missed shot.

I'd like to add that, don't underestimate what the addition of Wells and Rahim could do towards the attitude of TEAM DEFENSE (with the starting five). We haven't even seen them work-out, play or train together and some of you are already knocking the King's defense.

I may eat my words later ... but, for now, I'm holding on to my thoughts of "any improvement" is good !!!
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i agree with that. optimistically, wells and rahim will spark the energy on the defensive end, just like DC used to do.

Go kings!
 
D-Mass

D-Mass

Starter
#66
#66
dac911 said:
are kings like suns of last year? all offensive no defense? i guess might not be that bad..
though suns did have shot blockers.
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That, and all 5 positions could run the floor. We'll be better with the transition game, but we'll never be last year's Suns...not with Brad and Peja trailing so far behind.
 
jay dubb

jay dubb

G-League
#67
#67
Well PIKSI maybe Bibby would have played better D if he had a backup point guard (not talking bad about about BJax, hey he couldn't help it that he kept getting hurt) to help him out and cut some of minutes down for the past 2 seasons then who knows what kind of defender he would be right now. Now Bibby has a backup to help cut some of his minutes down so I think that should help him go all out on defensive end next year.
 
K

Kings113

All-Star
#68
#68
dac911 said:
are kings like suns of last year? all offensive no defense? i guess might not be that bad..
though suns did have shot blockers.
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No, they won't be. There's still 2 1/2 months of off-season left.

Some of these comparisions and comments are ridiculously stubborn and jumping ahead way too much.
 
VF21

VF21

Super Moderator Emeritus
SME
#69
#69
jay dubb said:
Well PIKSI maybe Bibby would have played better D if he had a backup point guard (not talking bad about about BJax, hey he couldn't help it that he kept getting hurt) to help him out and cut some of minutes down for the past 2 seasons then who knows what kind of defender he would be right now. Now Bibby has a backup to help cut some of his minutes down so I think that should help him go all out on defensive end next year.
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Bibby would be pretty much the same kind of defender he is right now. You don't become more or less defense oriented dependent upon the status of your backup. And Bibby DID have a back-up, BTW. The argument could be made that Bibby had more faith in his back-up last year, who happened to be his brother-in-law, because of the family connection. (Note, I'm saying the argument could be made - not that I buy into it.)

Mike Bibby is a lot of things and he does a lot for the Sacramento Kings. He has not EVER been a defensive juggernaut.
 
jay dubb

jay dubb

G-League
#70
#70
VF21 said:
Bibby would be pretty much the same kind of defender he is right now. You don't become more or less defense oriented dependent upon the status of your backup. And Bibby DID have a back-up, BTW. The argument could be made that Bibby had more faith in his back-up last year, who happened to be his brother-in-law, because of the family connection. (Note, I'm saying the argument could be made - not that I buy into it.)

Mike Bibby is a lot of things and he does a lot for the Sacramento Kings. He has not EVER been a defensive juggernaut.
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LOL Eddie House a backup, man did he even average 3 mins a game. A true backup was Bobby Jackson b/c when he was healty Bibby didn't have to play so many minutes thats all I'm saying.
 
B

BonziFan

G-League
#71
#71
Everybody on this team is capable of playing better defense if they would just trust each other. Bibby has shown the ability, when needed, to playu better defense. He just needs to realize it is needed more than he does I guess.
 
VF21

VF21

Super Moderator Emeritus
SME
#72
#72
BonziFan said:
Everybody on this team is capable of playing better defense if they would just trust each other. Bibby has shown the ability, when needed, to playu better defense. He just needs to realize it is needed more than he does I guess.
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I think he - and the rest of the team - realize the need for defense. I just honestly think they expect everyone else to do it. You know, kind of like picking up the trash after the big party?

;)
 
piksi

piksi

Hall of Famer
#73
#73
BonziFan said:
Bibby has shown the ability, when needed, to playu better defense. He just needs to realize it is needed more than he does I guess.
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2 things here.

when You say - " when needed" - are there really times when it is not needed ?

and second - when did he show that ability ? I thought I saw all games from the last couple seasons and I can't really remember any of it.


Just like saying that pedja has shown ability to dominate boards. Sounds pathetic - doesn't it ?
 
slugking50

slugking50

All-Star
#74
#74
W are a pretender. We will be untill we actually address our defensive woes. We need to make several key trades. Theres no way this team will be a contender at all.
 
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T

thesanityannex

Guest
#75
#75
chelle said:
I would not trade Bibby because, defense or no, he is one of the elite guards in the game. I will agree that his defense needs work, but he helps the team much more than hinders the team. .
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Help>>>>>Hinder
 
K

Kings113

All-Star
#76
#76
slugking50 said:
W are a pretender. We will be untill we actually address our defensive woes. We need to make several key trades. Theres no way this team will be a contender at all.
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You're too fast for a slug with those stubborn comments.

it bored.
 
B

BonziFan

G-League
#77
#77
I believe that the rebounding issue was more of a problem because that is what made our defense look bad. How would teams get all of those second and third opportunities if we didn't play decent defense initially. We gave up so many points because of sencond and third chance points. I think with SAR and Bonzi we have definitely gotten better on the boards and we will start to see all of those extra opportunities dissapear. This will make our defense look much improved right there.
 
T

thesanityannex

Guest
#78
#78
That's very true, the rebounding was so terrible at some times, the Kings would get teams to miss shots, playing excellent defense, and just blow the defensive rebound, once, twice, sometimes even three times on a possesion, giving up easy putbacks.
 
Bricklayer

Bricklayer

Don't Make Me Use The Bat
#79
#79
Bonzi is a step up on the glass, but SAR is actually a step DOWN from either Webb or KT.Tiebreaker may well come on whether Peja decides to grace us with a real effort this year.
 
uolj

uolj

Starter
#80
#80
Unfortunately, I don't think Abdur-Rahim is much of an improvement in rebounding. He may be more athletic, but Webber had better rebounding numbers last year and Thomas' numbers were pretty similar. Wells will provide some help, but I don't see enough of an improvement to spill over into making the defense acceptable.

I expect the Kings' defense to be in the bottom half of the league again this year, no matter what they do with the bench.

[Edit] - Bricklayer beat me to it.
 
T

thesanityannex

Guest
#81
#81
uolj said:
Unfortunately, I don't think Abdur-Rahim is much of an improvement in rebounding. He may be more athletic, but Webber had better rebounding numbers last year and Thomas' numbers were pretty similar. Wells will provide some help, but I don't see enough of an improvement to spill over into making the defense acceptable.

I expect the Kings' defense to be in the bottom half of the league again this year, no matter what they do with the bench.

[Edit] - Bricklayer beat me to it.
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miller will have two legs, so will our PF, it will spill over.
 
uolj

uolj

Starter
#82
#82
I don't understand how two legs matters when they result in fewer rebounds. Webber rebounded better "on one leg" than Abdur-Rahim. Kenny Thomas also did better. What does two legs have to do with anything if they aren't being used to get rebounds?

That sounds like rationalization to me. There are plenty of good things about Shareef Abdur-Rahim, but extra rebounding does not seem to be one of them.
 
P

Peja4threee

G-League
#83
#83
Bonzi is a better defender then Mobley and Hart is a better defender then House and even though SAR isn't known for his defense, he can still defend better then Webber. So we have addressed some of our defense concerns. It would be nice to get a Ratliff type of player for some block shots.
 
Bricklayer

Bricklayer

Don't Make Me Use The Bat
#84
#84
Peja4threee said:
Bonzi is a better defender then Mobley and Hart is a better defender then House and even though SAR isn't known for his defense, he can still defend better then Webber. So we have addressed some of our defense concerns. It would be nice to get a Ratliff type of player for some block shots.
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However, Bonzi MAY be as good a defender as even old Doug, Hart MAY be as good a defender and hustler as Bobby, and SAR is a minor upgrade at best over Webb -- who even in his dotage was a better shotblocker and rebounder. So if everything breaks right we MAY actually be back to where we were at the beginning of last season defensively. Which wasn't very good.

We need an impact to defender to bring this all together. Not just a good man to man guy, but a guy who makes others better defensively + inspires them to better efforts.
 
K

Kings113

All-Star
#86
#86
Bricklayer said:
However, Bonzi MAY be as good a defender as even old Doug, Hart MAY be as good a defender and hustler as Bobby, and SAR is a minor upgrade at best over Webb -- who even in his dotage was a better shotblocker and rebounder. So if everything breaks right we MAY actually be back to where we were at the beginning of last season defensively. Which wasn't very good.

We need an impact to defender to bring this all together. Not just a good man to man guy, but a guy who makes others better defensively + inspires them to better efforts.
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Greg Buckner, Aaron Mckie, Adrian Griffin, PJ Brown.
 
B

BonziFan

G-League
#87
#87
Well, we have a good rebounder in SAR starting giving us 8-10 a game, and then we upgraded rebounding off the bench with Thomas able to grab 8-10 a game. We didn't have that kind of a combo last year. You have to remember that Songaila was our backup pf and he only averaged 4 rebounds a game. Big improvement there.
 
Bricklayer

Bricklayer

Don't Make Me Use The Bat
#88
#88
BonziFan said:
Well, we have a good rebounder in SAR starting giving us 8-10 a game, and then we upgraded rebounding off the bench with Thomas able to grab 8-10 a game. We didn't have that kind of a combo last year. You have to remember that Songaila was our backup pf and he only averaged 4 rebounds a game. Big improvement there.
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Thomas IS an improvement over Darius on the glass -- although actually I would prefer it be Skinner an improvement over Darius, but I guess at the moment its Skinner = Tag, and that's a wash. But Thomas is NOT grabbing 8-10 boards in the same minutes Dairus did (or at all given our current lineup). In equal minutes Thomas might grab A board more than Darius.
 
B

BonziFan

G-League
#89
#89
Bricklayer said:
Thomas IS an improvement over Darius on the glass -- although actually I would prefer it be Skinner an improvement over Darius, but I guess at the moment its Skinner = Tag, and that's a wash. But Thomas is NOT grabbing 8-10 boards in the same minutes Dairus did (or at all given our current lineup). In equal minutes Thomas might grab A board more than Darius.
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Just one. I really consider Thomas a much more agressive rebounder than Darius. I think 2-3 at least just because he will pursue even loose ones better.
 
Bricklayer

Bricklayer

Don't Make Me Use The Bat
#90
#90
BonziFan said:
Just one. I really consider Thomas a much more agressive rebounder than Darius. I think 2-3 at least just because he will pursue even loose ones better.
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No, what I meant is that Darius only played 20min, and in that time he got 4.5 or whatever, and in that same time Kenny might get 5.5-6.0. Its not that Kenny isn't a better rebounder, its jsut that when you are talking about backups on a team with starting eating the vast majority of minutes, even an upgrade only has a relatively small effect because of the relatively low minutes. Sure Kenny might be able to get around 10rebs if you played him 35min, but he's not going to play 35min unless somebody gets hurt.
 
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