De'Aaron Fox: 27.0MPG, Kyle Kuzma: 28.1MPG

bajaden said:
Who would have thought he would fail. An undersized PF that couldn't shoot, couldn't dribble, couldn't pass, and had the BBIQ of a peanut. What a shock!
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Well at the time lots of people had him highly projected. I can’t speak for you but Scott called it before the draft.
 
Kingster said:
There's a guy in this league that averaged 2.1 points his first year and played 8.6 minutes a game; the 2nd year year he played 19.4 minutes a game and averaged 6.0 points per game. And it isn't just stats with this guy; I saw him in year 1 and year 2 and looked very unimpressive in all aspects of the game. Now in his 5th year he's averaging 18.3 points per game and he's shooting 52.5% on 3s and is a very good rebounder and defender. Otto Porter. Now you have to ask yourself, could you have foreseen that after his 2nd year, much less his first year, he would become the player he is today? A lot of guys take a big jump up in their 3rd year, and then again in their fifth year. Unless a player is a remarkable talent like LBJ there is little certainty about who is going to do what when they get to be 25 years old.
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Bad logic

Did the wizards need to know right away if Otto Porter could become there franchise player?

No, they had Wall and Beal already as their sure fire cornerstones. You can afford to bring him along slower. There are obvious priorities the Wiz needed to handle in terms of having Wall and Beal being ready to make the playoffs year after year since it was Wall's 4th year already when they drafted Porter.

Who are the young assets the Kings are for sure building through while Fox is "developing" on the bench? 3rd year WCS? 2nd year Buddy Hield?

Stop making excuses for the team you love. If you think developing your player at a snails pace ensures something, your wrong much more than your right. Most guys who average 2pts their rookie years DON'T go on to become stars. Otto is the exception (borderline all star nominee).

Development is a lot more luck based than people realize. If Fox is gonna be a star then he's gonna be a star because he has the talent that will unavoidably show over time. Imo, he's shown he has star potential. The only thing a coach can really do to help that talent is to give him the reps and build up his confidence. Having him doubt whether he was ever an NBA starter from day one isn't doing anybody favors.

But go ahead and feed into the Kings front office agenda to never seriously doubt the coaching/front office competence when it's obvious that Fox should never even sniff a bench role in SACRAMENTO.
 
bajaden said:
Funny, this is the most optimistic I've been in a long time. I feel like were finally doing it right. I agree that the Lakers are young, but they're not as young as the Kings.
Click to expand...
This isn't true. Kings' core seem much older.....

Lakers' core moving forward is probably Lonzo(20), Ingram(20), Kuzma(22), Randle(22), and Nance Jr(25).
Kings' core moving forward is probably Fox(20), Hield(24), Bogdan(25), Jackson(22), Skal(22), WCS(24).

I doubt a guy like KCP is part of the Lakers' future. Clarkson is already relegated to 6th man off the bench. It's just that..their "older" players are better than most of the guys on our team.
 
Kingster said:
There's a guy in this league that averaged 2.1 points his first year and played 8.6 minutes a game; the 2nd year year he played 19.4 minutes a game and averaged 6.0 points per game. And it isn't just stats with this guy; I saw him in year 1 and year 2 and looked very unimpressive in all aspects of the game. Now in his 5th year he's averaging 18.3 points per game and he's shooting 52.5% on 3s and is a very good rebounder and defender. Otto Porter. Now you have to ask yourself, could you have foreseen that after his 2nd year, much less his first year, he would become the player he is today? A lot of guys take a big jump up in their 3rd year, and then again in their fifth year. Unless a player is a remarkable talent like LBJ there is little certainty about who is going to do what when they get to be 25 years old.
Click to expand...
This is a horrible comparison because Porter Jr was actually in his rookie year AND you forgot about Wall/Beal.
When they drafted Porter Jr, they already had their franchise player AND a franchise building block. In Porter Jr's rookie year, Wall averaged 18.5pts 7.6asts 4rebs. Bradley Beal averaged 17.1pts 3.3asts 3.7rebs.

Who do the Kings have? Old ass Zach Randolph? Kings are starting this year with 0. We are not in the same position the Wizards were in. Oh and one more thing, the Wizards in Porter Jr's rookie year made it to the Eastern Conference Semi Finals. Kings are scraping for the #1 pick this year. It's an awful comparison smh. Wizards were a playoff team that didn't need immediate contributions from Porter Jr. Kings are one of the least talented teams in the NBA.
 
206Fan said:
This is a horrible comparison because Porter Jr was actually in his rookie year AND you forgot about Wall/Beal.
When they drafted Porter Jr, they already had their franchise player AND a franchise building block. In Porter Jr's rookie year, Wall averaged 18.5pts 7.6asts 4rebs. Bradley Beal averaged 17.1pts 3.3asts 3.7rebs.

Who do the Kings have? Old ass Zach Randolph? Kings are starting this year with 0. We are not in the same position the Wizards were in. Oh and one more thing, the Wizards in Porter Jr's rookie year made it to the Eastern Conference Semi Finals. Kings are scraping for the #1 pick this year. It's an awful comparison smh. Wizards were a playoff team that didn't need immediate contributions from Porter Jr. Kings are one of the least talented teams in the NBA.
Click to expand...

First and second year stats given. And what diff does it make with Wall and Beal? The example still stands.
 
mbxsys said:
Bad logic

Did the wizards need to know right away if Otto Porter could become there franchise player?

No, they had Wall and Beal already as their sure fire cornerstones. You can afford to bring him along slower. There are obvious priorities the Wiz needed to handle in terms of having Wall and Beal being ready to make the playoffs year after year since it was Wall's 4th year already when they drafted Porter.

Who are the young assets the Kings are for sure building through while Fox is "developing" on the bench? 3rd year WCS? 2nd year Buddy Hield?

Stop making excuses for the team you love. If you think developing your player at a snails pace ensures something, your wrong much more than your right. Most guys who average 2pts their rookie years DON'T go on to become stars. Otto is the exception (borderline all star nominee).

Development is a lot more luck based than people realize. If Fox is gonna be a star then he's gonna be a star because he has the talent that will unavoidably show over time. Imo, he's shown he has star potential. The only thing a coach can really do to help that talent is to give him the reps and build up his confidence. Having him doubt whether he was ever an NBA starter from day one isn't doing anybody favors.

But go ahead and feed into the Kings front office agenda to never seriously doubt the coaching/front office competence when it's obvious that Fox should never even sniff a bench role in SACRAMENTO.
Click to expand...

It doesn't matter what you need. It matters that you can't make a determination on the current talent of this team because not enough time has passed to make an accurate assessment. Why be pessimistic about something you don't know?
 
206Fan said:
This isn't true. Kings' core seem much older.....

Lakers' core moving forward is probably Lonzo(20), Ingram(20), Kuzma(22), Randle(22), and Nance Jr(25).
Kings' core moving forward is probably Fox(20), Hield(24), Bogdan(25), Jackson(22), Skal(22), WCS(24).

I doubt a guy like KCP is part of the Lakers' future. Clarkson is already relegated to 6th man off the bench. It's just that..their "older" players are better than most of the guys on our team.
Click to expand...

Don't completely agree; the Lakers have more NBA experience if you're talking about the "youth" of a team, but otherwise I do. The point is is that they're doing more with their young team and having more success because of it.

The Kings right to be running a 10 man rotation of Fox, Hield, Hill, Zbo, WCS, Skal, Temple, Koufos, Bogdanovic, and Carter. All of them but Carter weirdly range from the 20-27 minute range. No one on the team is getting more than 30 min.

The Lakers seem to be running an 8 man rotation which changed after Nance went down. They have multiple players averaging 30+ mpg, and the only vet in that group is Lopez.
 
27 minutes is a lot of PT for any rookie. I don’t see what the problem is. There’s been a few exceptions over the years and Fox ain’t one of them. 27 minutes isn’t chump change and he certainly hasn’t commanded more minutes with the level of his play. Fox is also not the only youth we’re trying to develop. We’re about 8 deep with recent first round guys we’re trying to give obligatory burn to for the sake of development. You may think only Fox and Bogdan are the “for real” guys but that’s just your opinion.

Minutes haven’t been a problem IMO. The team playing like crap is. I’m sure more minutes await whoever really starts to rise to the top but nobody has really done that. If guys haven’t found their roles I’d argue that they also haven’t discovered who they are as NBA players.
 
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Kingz19 said:
27 minutes is a lot of PT for any rookie. I don’t see what the problem is. There’s been a few exceptions over the years and Fox ain’t one of them. 27 minutes isn’t chump change and he certainly hasn’t commanded more minutes with the level of his play. Fox is also not the only youth we’re trying to develop. We’re about 8 deep with recent first round guys we’re trying to give obligatory burn to for the sake of development. You may think only Fox and Bogdan are the “for real” guys but that’s just your opinion.

Minutes haven’t been a problem IMO. The team playing like crap is. I’m sure more minutes await whoever really starts to rise to the top but nobody has really done that. If guys haven’t found their roles I’d argue that they also haven’t discovered who they are as NBA players.
Click to expand...

My issue isn't with the minutes he is playing, but how he is getting those minutes. He'll start a game, come out at 6 minutes and then won't return until 2 minutes left in the second. He'll make a shot, do a couple hustle plays, and get pulled out. I'm all for easing him into the game, but when he is out hustling everyone on the floor he needs to stay in. In essence, if he is earning his minutes give him his minutes. He shouldn't be held on a minutes restriction just because he is a rookie.
 
I don't think Fox's minutes are the problem. It's how he's playing and how he's being coached.

He's wasted on offense when anyone else is handling the ball while he's out there. When he is handling the ball, I can't tell if he's afraid to pull the trigger or if he doesn't have the green light. Because sometimes he just settles for mid range after mid range jumper and other times he attacks the basket at will. I don't know if that's Fox being timid or the way he's coached or what. All I know is that it's poor coaching to have him out there with any other player on the team handling the ball.
 
Kingster said:
There's a guy in this league that averaged 2.1 points his first year and played 8.6 minutes a game; the 2nd year year he played 19.4 minutes a game and averaged 6.0 points per game. And it isn't just stats with this guy; I saw him in year 1 and year 2 and looked very unimpressive in all aspects of the game. Now in his 5th year he's averaging 18.3 points per game and he's shooting 52.5% on 3s and is a very good rebounder and defender. Otto Porter. Now you have to ask yourself, could you have foreseen that after his 2nd year, much less his first year, he would become the player he is today? A lot of guys take a big jump up in their 3rd year, and then again in their fifth year. Unless a player is a remarkable talent like LBJ there is little certainty about who is going to do what when they get to be 25 years old.
Click to expand...

Then there was Hassan Whiteside.

The info below is straight out of his Wiki who I am giving full credit and will provide a link below:

On June 24, 2010, Whiteside was selected by the Sacramento Kings with the 33rd overall pick in the 2010 NBA draft. On July 19, he signed a four-year, $3.8 million contract with the Kings. The first two years of the deal were guaranteed for $1.76 million.[14]

On November 29, 2010, Whiteside was assigned to the Kings' D-League affiliate, the Reno Bighorns.[15] Whiteside was recalled back to the Kings on January 9, 2011.[16] On March 5, 2011, Whiteside had surgery to repair a partially torn tendon in his left knee, which sidelined him for the rest of the season.[17] He only appeared in one game with the Kings during his rookie season.

On January 1, 2012, Whiteside was reassigned to the Reno Bighorns.[18] On February 4, he was recalled by the Kings.[19] On July 16, 2012, he was waived by the Kings.[20]

On December 14, 2012, Whiteside was acquired by the Sioux Falls Skyforce.[21] On January 4, 2013, he was traded to the Rio Grande Valley Vipers in exchange for Damian Saunders.[22] After winning the D-League championship with the Vipers, he joined Amchit Club in Lebanon.[23]

On May 26, 2013, Whiteside joined Chinese NBL team, the Sichuan Blue Whales. He appeared in 27 games for the club, averaging 25.7 points, 16.6 rebounds, 5.1 blocks and 1.4 steals per game. He helped the team win the 2013 NBL championship.

In November 2013, Whiteside signed with Al Mouttahed Tripoli of the Lebanese Basketball League.[24] On April 30, 2014, he was released by the club.[25] He returned to China the following month, where he joined Jiangsu Tongxi of the Chinese NBL. He parted ways with the club in June after appearing in 17 games.

On September 25, 2014, Whiteside signed with the Memphis Grizzlies,[26] but was later waived on October 22.[27] On October 30, he was reacquired by the Rio Grande Valley Vipers. Two days later, his rights were traded to the Iowa Energy.[28] He officially joined the Energy on November 14, 2014.[29] On November 19, he re-signed with the Grizzlies,[30] but was waived again the next day.[31] On November 22, he re-joined Iowa.[32]

Link to full Wiki writeup---> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hassan_Whiteside
 
Tetsujin said:
In hindsight, the Boogie/Dalembert/Landry/Thompson/Donte Greene/Whiteside depthstravaganza worked much better in concept than in practice.
Click to expand...

In hindsight, Donte Greene's most reliable talent was the ability to determine if a 3/4 court heave was going in well ahead of time...a debatable talent at best.
 
sactowndog said:
Well at the time lots of people had him highly projected. I can’t speak for you but Scott called it before the draft.
Click to expand...

I'll be honest! I did my best to sell myself on him. I watched a ton of his games at Kansas and I think I said in one of my posts that I could only remember one WOW moment in all those games that made me stand up and take notice. Once we drafted him, I tried to see the light at the end of the tunnel, but it was pretty dim. I always pictured him as a Kenneth Faried type player, and he certainly had the athleticism to be that kind of player. Unfortunately he saw himself as a different kind of player. He was a good rebounder at Kansas, and that's the one thing that usually translates to the NBA. In his case, it was just so/so. I think the talking heads and the Kings were the victims of a good PR campaign. Water under the bridge at this point.
 
206Fan said:
This isn't true. Kings' core seem much older.....

Lakers' core moving forward is probably Lonzo(20), Ingram(20), Kuzma(22), Randle(22), and Nance Jr(25).
Kings' core moving forward is probably Fox(20), Hield(24), Bogdan(25), Jackson(22), Skal(22), WCS(24).

I doubt a guy like KCP is part of the Lakers' future. Clarkson is already relegated to 6th man off the bench. It's just that..their "older" players are better than most of the guys on our team.
Click to expand...

By youth, I was referring to league experience, not the actual age of the players. And, I was talking about the current win/loss record. There are players on both teams that aren't part of the future, but their playing right now, and that can make a difference in the win/loss record. The Kings started the season with 5 players that had zero NBA experience, and 4 players with one year of at least partial NBA experience. Plus the majority of those players had never played together before. The Lakers aren't a lot better off, but they are better off when it comes to league experience. No way to tell right now which is the overall better team. I don't put too much stock in the win/loss record this year as a determining factor.
 
King Baller said:
Then there was Hassan Whiteside.

The info below is straight out of his Wiki who I am giving full credit and will provide a link below:

On June 24, 2010, Whiteside was selected by the Sacramento Kings with the 33rd overall pick in the 2010 NBA draft. On July 19, he signed a four-year, $3.8 million contract with the Kings. The first two years of the deal were guaranteed for $1.76 million.[14]

On November 29, 2010, Whiteside was assigned to the Kings' D-League affiliate, the Reno Bighorns.[15] Whiteside was recalled back to the Kings on January 9, 2011.[16] On March 5, 2011, Whiteside had surgery to repair a partially torn tendon in his left knee, which sidelined him for the rest of the season.[17] He only appeared in one game with the Kings during his rookie season.

On January 1, 2012, Whiteside was reassigned to the Reno Bighorns.[18] On February 4, he was recalled by the Kings.[19] On July 16, 2012, he was waived by the Kings.[20]

On December 14, 2012, Whiteside was acquired by the Sioux Falls Skyforce.[21] On January 4, 2013, he was traded to the Rio Grande Valley Vipers in exchange for Damian Saunders.[22] After winning the D-League championship with the Vipers, he joined Amchit Club in Lebanon.[23]

On May 26, 2013, Whiteside joined Chinese NBL team, the Sichuan Blue Whales. He appeared in 27 games for the club, averaging 25.7 points, 16.6 rebounds, 5.1 blocks and 1.4 steals per game. He helped the team win the 2013 NBL championship.

In November 2013, Whiteside signed with Al Mouttahed Tripoli of the Lebanese Basketball League.[24] On April 30, 2014, he was released by the club.[25] He returned to China the following month, where he joined Jiangsu Tongxi of the Chinese NBL. He parted ways with the club in June after appearing in 17 games.

On September 25, 2014, Whiteside signed with the Memphis Grizzlies,[26] but was later waived on October 22.[27] On October 30, he was reacquired by the Rio Grande Valley Vipers. Two days later, his rights were traded to the Iowa Energy.[28] He officially joined the Energy on November 14, 2014.[29] On November 19, he re-signed with the Grizzlies,[30] but was waived again the next day.[31] On November 22, he re-joined Iowa.[32]

Link to full Wiki writeup---> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hassan_Whiteside
Click to expand...

I happen to know a little bit about Hassan. I communicated with him for some time after he left the Kings. He didn't have the right work ethic, and he knew it. He had to take several steps back, and re-evaluate his game, and his approach to the game. He knew most of his problems were his own fault. To his credit, he worked his butt off to change bad habits, and to improve his strengths. I'm very happy for him. When he came to the Kings he was extremely immature and had little clue what was expected of him. He grew up in a hurry.
 
bajaden said:
So we should let Hill sit on the bench while making 19 mil a year? Here's some advice. go troll somewhere else. Were not the Lakers and we don't give a damm how many minutes Ball plays. As a matter of fact, how is that working out for Ball who is shooting 30% overall and 25% from the three. And right now, he can't defend a chair. All those minutes don't seem to be helping him improve.
Click to expand...
right

Balls father is actually out there complaining that Ball does not get enough minutes and should play at the end of games, so there
goes that.
 
Folsomkingsfan said:
My issue isn't with the minutes he is playing, but how he is getting those minutes. He'll start a game, come out at 6 minutes and then won't return until 2 minutes left in the second. He'll make a shot, do a couple hustle plays, and get pulled out. I'm all for easing him into the game, but when he is out hustling everyone on the floor he needs to stay in. In essence, if he is earning his minutes give him his minutes. He shouldn't be held on a minutes restriction just because he is a rookie.
Click to expand...
agreed with this.

its a load of CRAP how our coach waits until we're down nearly 20 points in a quarter, only to bring Fox back in with 2 minutes left in that
quarter. It's happened enough times already for it to be an issue.
 
Kingster said:
First and second year stats given. And what diff does it make with Wall and Beal? The example still stands.
Click to expand...
oops, I didn't see who you were replying to. I thought you were replying to the general premise of the thread about not giving our young guys enough minutes. Porter Jr didn't get many minutes because he was injured his first year, and by his 2nd year, the Wizards were playoff contenders.

It's too early to call any of our guys off, but you do get a rough idea of who has star potential and who doesn't.
bajaden said:
By youth, I was referring to league experience, not the actual age of the players. And, I was talking about the current win/loss record. There are players on both teams that aren't part of the future, but their playing right now, and that can make a difference in the win/loss record. The Kings started the season with 5 players that had zero NBA experience, and 4 players with one year of at least partial NBA experience. Plus the majority of those players had never played together before. The Lakers aren't a lot better off, but they are better off when it comes to league experience. No way to tell right now which is the overall better team. I don't put too much stock in the win/loss record this year as a determining factor.
Click to expand...
Oh ok, gotcha. Yeah, the Lakers have much more experience than the Kings.
 
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