Tetsujin
The Game Thread Dude
Well, Ben does have the astoundingly bad offensive game of young Avery Bradley
Darren Collison
- Thread starter Sac.1989
- Start date
Well, Ben does have the astoundingly bad offensive game of young Avery Bradley
Chupacabra
Starter
Now it's only two games but in these first two games Collison's defense has been superb. It's a little annoying that those who are very quick to criticize don't also offer praise where praise is due. If these past two games are what this team is going to continue to play like then the Kings have taken a big leap forward.
He has been the PG we hope for and expected for the first 2 games. A huge, huge upgrade, especially in terms of fit to our team.
ockingsfan
Starter
Darren Collison is a glue type player. He does all the dirty work and isn't looking to be a star.
He was like that at UCLA and learned good defense under Ben Howland led teams.
If we can get a legit starting 2 guard or if Nik or Ben finally steps up, the Kings can make a push for the #7 or #8 seed.
He was like that at UCLA and learned good defense under Ben Howland led teams.
If we can get a legit starting 2 guard or if Nik or Ben finally steps up, the Kings can make a push for the #7 or #8 seed.
Collision may still be a bad defender, but bad defense is an upgrade for this team, considering we were horrific for the past decade. (That said, we've looked pretty good on the defensive side.)
It's hard to say how he got the reputation as a poor defender. Certainly he's not a huge guy (basically 6 foot soaking wet) and that's part of it. Throughout his career at UCLA he began to establish a reputation as a very *good* defender - perhaps not elite, but very good - up until the last game of his junior year when he was absolutely torched by Derrick Rose in a Final Four matchup. Granted, this was Derrick Rose we're talking about.
At the pro level I haven't had the opportunity to watch him a ton, but I never saw him as a poor defender. Stats of course are not necessarily reliable on the defensive end of the ball. However, it looks like basketball-reference has instituted a new stat called "Box Plus Minus", which is broken down into offensive and defensive portions and is yet another attempt to quantify a player's contributions relative to a league average player. According to DBPM, for his career Collison has been about -0.8 points per game, but since the calculation is calibrated for -1 as "replacement level", you could argue that he has been a "replacement level defender", which isn't a ringing endorsement. Of course, thus far this year Collison has been +2.8, which is fantastic though far out of his norm. I think we can assume he will come back to earth a bit. As an investigation of the stat, we can look at other defensively-poor PGs (Isaiah Thomas -2.7; Greivis Vasquez -2.0) and defensively-strong PGs (Rajon Rondo +1.6; Ricky Rubio +1.3) as an indication that DBPM seems to make sense, at least at first glance.
ninjabiscuit
Bench
No, Collison does not appear to me to be a bad defender. He's definitely an upgrade, in any case.
(Warning - mostly unprovoked rant about the media coming.)
The mainstream media just repeat what the other members of the mainstream media say. Once that boulder slows down and starts rolling the other way, you'll hear the opposite, until long after it's no longer true. Rinse and repeat. To develop an original opinion, they'd have to watch a lot more games than they want to watch. The Kings aren't high on that list, at least at the moment. Maybe that will change this year. We can hope. Until then, we'll continue to be reported on like a team that's not going to be very good, except for DMC, who "would be better on a playoff team...plus it would help him get his head screwed on straight." (What that really means to me is "as a national NBA writer, I wish he played on a team in a larger market, because then I could watch him without having to go find the Kings game." Totally unbiased journalism.)
Bill Simmons and Zach Lowe seem to have learned long ago from ESPN that because teams generate ESPN advertising revenue based on the number of clicks/views they generate, every team should be covered based on the size of their fan base (again, ESPN's opinion, not mine). Teams like the Kings can safely be ignored and/or maligned (which is the way they treat the Kings most of the time). Hopefully that changes. I've gone from liking to hating Simmons because of how much he bashes the Kings. Zach Lowe cares a lot more about court designs than wins and losses. He can delve deep sometimes, but until he writes an article about the Kings that's remotely accurate, I'm going safely ignore and/or malign him.
The local beat writer we have is pretty uninspiring. He still strikes me as a Lakers fan who wishes he didn't have to write about these damned Kings, and yet here he is. He is very negative when they don't play well, and when they do good things, he writes in the flat, factual style that they teach you in journalism school. In other words, either negative or flatline...nothing positive if he can help it.
Ailene Voison can be decent, but she has a history of developing love/hate relationships with certain players, which can completely blind her to what's actually happening on the team (sound familiar?). She's not bad overall, though, in my opinion.
I'll stop. I have no idea why I wrote all of this.
Enjoy your day.
Bricklayer
Don't Make Me Use The Bat
The thing you have to remember about Collison's defense is that he has had some VERY good teachers in pros. He's physically weak, but when your defensive stops take you from Frank Vogel to Rick Carlisle to Doc Rivers, you are flat going to know what you are about on that end. Know what it takes to be a good defender even if you can't always 100% execute it.
K
KingMilz
Guest
About to start hearing M.V.P chants back in Sleep Train
Chubbs
Starter
Haven't seen the numbers, but we improve further as far as FG% D is concerned. Another team held under 40%.
ShastaKingsFan
All-Star
He and Casspi have come in with top focus. Great veteran pickups. Probably the best "value" package in the league
kennadog
Dog On It!
ESPN has always had an easy coast bias, except for the Lakers. Back on the Webber/Vlade a report from Sacramento got a job with ESPN. She couldn't convince them to pay more attention to THAT team.
I like Collison, so far. I think he has been a steadying influence, a decent defender and has affected team chemistry for the better.
I like Collison, so far. I think he has been a steadying influence, a decent defender and has affected team chemistry for the better.
Collison has always been known as a solid player, but has never stuck anywhere because he's been known for long periods of extremely inconsistent play and not having an impact (Thus getting benched for Mike James in Dallas.)
I think a year studying under CP3 has done him some serious good on both ends of the floor. He's more focused defensively than he's been in the past and he's also been a better decision maker than I've seen in the past. I'll be curious to see how his impact holds up over the season. But for now, I'll take him being our best player through 4 games and leading us to 3-1
I think a year studying under CP3 has done him some serious good on both ends of the floor. He's more focused defensively than he's been in the past and he's also been a better decision maker than I've seen in the past. I'll be curious to see how his impact holds up over the season. But for now, I'll take him being our best player through 4 games and leading us to 3-1
G
GQ_Gabriel
Guest
Can someone please refresh my memory. A couple years ago, when Collison played for the Mavericks, he was replaced by Mike James during the regular season. Can someone explain to me what the scenario was? Did DC stink it up in Dallas?
rainmaker
Hall of Famer
Most valuable aspect to DC's play, aside from better defense at the point of attack is his understanding of how to control tempo, spread the ball around, ride the hot hand and/or the focal points and look for his own within the offense or when one of/both Rudy/Cuz are on the bench.
Thus far, the guy just gets it, it being how to run the team and the closest thing we've had to a floor general in years, maybe since Bibby. Beno had a good stretch here though.
We're not 3-1 without DC handling the rock the last 6 mins of games and knowing how to close out wins.
Thus far, the guy just gets it, it being how to run the team and the closest thing we've had to a floor general in years, maybe since Bibby. Beno had a good stretch here though.
We're not 3-1 without DC handling the rock the last 6 mins of games and knowing how to close out wins.
Tetsujin
The Game Thread Dude
Need to remember that the season he started for the Mavs they had just lost Jason Kidd, lost Jason Terry (this is back when he was a perennial 6th man of the year candidate), and, most importantly, Dirk Nowitzki missed almost half of the season thanks to a back injury. Now none of these things really explain why Darren was benched but they certainly help to show you the kind of tumultuous year it was in Dallas. I mean they once started the old Clippers frontline of Chris Kaman and Elton Brand (both already way past their respective primes) for Pete's sake.
Bricklayer
Don't Make Me Use The Bat
Carlisle likes to run a very structured offense and he wasn't satisfied that Collison ran it well enough and saw enough passing opportunities. On that front it might actually be relevant that he had gotten used to Kidd. Certainly is no problem for us thus far. Cleanest run since Beno.
km23
Bench
Haven't read any of the above posts yet, but I'm sure it's been said many times, I absolutely love this guy.
We have what seems to be a promising PG for a long time, of course going off of what I've seen just this season and last when he was with the Clippers.
The thing with him is he has the best attitudeand you can tell he doesn't care about stats, yeah he's been filling the Stat sheet but he just plays to win and that's all we can ask for!
We have what seems to be a promising PG for a long time, of course going off of what I've seen just this season and last when he was with the Clippers.
The thing with him is he has the best attitudeand you can tell he doesn't care about stats, yeah he's been filling the Stat sheet but he just plays to win and that's all we can ask for!
ShastaKingsFan
All-Star
Did you guys notice Collison's defensive stats so far? He's ranked #1 in the NBA for point guards...and he's played against Curry, Lillard, Paul, and Lawson twice 
Bricklayer
Don't Make Me Use The Bat
Did you guys notice Collison's defensive stats so far? He's ranked #1 in the NBA for point guards...and he's played against Curry, Lillard, Paul, and Lawson twice
ranked #1 in what stat?
ShastaKingsFan
All-Star
Yeah, that "defensive dashboard" is probably something that Pete and Malone were looking at, with their advanced stats. Could have had a lot to do with why they liked Collison and signed him. At any rate, it's very interesting
Chubbs
Starter
But the stat wizards at fivethirtyeight say it's his biggest weakness?Did you guys notice Collison's defensive stats so far? He's ranked #1 in the NBA for point guards...and he's played against Curry, Lillard, Paul, and Lawson twice
Anyhoo, in the comments noticed this tid bit.
Demarcus Cousins Net DFG% on shots from 0-6 feet: -4.7%
Anthony Davis Net DFG% on shots from 0-6 feet: 5.4
Tetsujin
The Game Thread Dude
Not really a surprise. While he's a great rim protector, Davis still isn't a great man-to-man defender.
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